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On Friday Timmy D and Kobe play for the 78th time, who has had the better career?

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P

Pastry

Banned
Both are considered two of the best basketball players of all time and as a San Antonian it was my favorite rivalry growing up. Over the past 16 years the championship has been won by the Spurs or the Lakers 62.5% of the time. I consider Kobe and Duncan the two best players of their generation. Tim Duncan is most likely going to retire next year ending an era of basketball that I grew up in.

They each hold some pretty impressive records: Duncan has the most playoff double-doubles in history and he just grabbed his 14,000th rebound last game. Kobe has some impressive ones too: he has the most missed shots in history (I kid) and being the youngest player to score 30,000 points.

So who do y'all think has had the better career?

ByhJwrm.png
 
entremet

entremet

Member
Hard to compare since they're so different in gifts and abilities. But at their positions you're right at them being the best for their generations.

I'd go with Kobe, though. For just his game changing ability.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
If you'd asked this in 2011, the answer would have been easily Kobe. Duncan's weight loss renaissance, Kobe's recent injuries, and the Spurs recent dominance muddies the picture considerably. He's been on the same team for 17 years and they've never been under a 50 win pace. No player in the modern era can say that.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
Duncan ranks higher on all time lists and I agree with that. Kobe is too much of a problem child and learned the wrong things from Shaq and Phil, unlike Duncan who soldiered through with Robinson, Pop, and the foreign legion.

Also Kobe's game was never as good as peak/prime Duncan's impact
 
J

Jarlaxle

Member
If I had to pick one of them to start a team with in their prime, it'd be Duncan. He was such a force on both ends of the court and such a smart player.
 
S

StMeph

Member
Bryant has the better career: money/endorsements, star power/branding, basketball/cultural icon.

Duncan is the better player.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Kobe had a better prime and has had a better career as a standalone player. That said, basketball is a team game and Duncan has had a better all-around career as a team player. Granted, this is coming from someone that tends to consider Bill Russell the greatest NBA player of all time.

And, of course, if we want to expand outside of the court and locker room then Duncan wins in a landslide.
 
C

Clipjoint

Member
As far as an NBA career goes, you have to go with Duncan. But they're basically neck and neck, what gives Duncan the edge is his professionalism.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
Duncan. Kobe is overrated, he has quit on his team before, and is currently killing the Lakers franchise as Duncan plays for championships.
 
G

goku1693

Member
I would have to say Kobe simply because even in times where he had amazing help, he has had to take over games just to get the teams he is on over the hump. Kobe has amazing take over abilities, just like Jordan did. I will always respect Tim Duncan, and honestly I always felt he was underrated for a long time, even as a die hard laker fan. But i will give the nod to Kobe.
 
S

shwimpy

Member
Hard to say since Duncan's had a better team for the majority of their careers.

I'd say Duncan though. He's the best power forward, perhaps ever.
 
B

Bread

Banned
Duncan. Kobe may be the better skilled player, but Duncan's overall impact on every game was only touched by Shaq in his prime (of players in that generation).
 
D

DUFFMCWALIN

Member
Simply Sarah said:
Kobe had a better prime and has had a better career as a standalone player. That said, basketball is a team game and Duncan has been a better all-around career as a team player.

And, of course, if we want to expand outside of the court and locker room then Duncan wins in a landslide.
Click to expand...

Word for word what I was going to say. Kobe was a beast but Duncan has been more consistent, especially for a big man.
 
C

captmcblack

Member
TD's team has been perfectly managed since the 90s, and has been designed to make perfect use of his abilities - both at their peak, and in his well-cushioned decline/twilight.

Kobe's team hasn't always been a perfect steamroller, and while he's always been on the franchise with the most money/star power to get him top players to keep him at/near the top of the game, Kobe himself has always been an elite player producing elite numbers well into his twilight (and without management of that decline phase to stretch out his efficiency).

Unless TD surpasses him in titles (making the argument a non-starter), I'm going to say Kobe's had a better career to date.
 
K

Khalifa Jayy

Banned
Abounder said:
Also Kobe's game was never as good as peak/prime Duncan's impact
Click to expand...

Frobe was an animal during the playoff runs of 2000-2002. Are you forgetting what Kobe did to the Twin Towers of Duncan/Robinson? Not to mention going up against "Kobe stopper" Bruce Bowen on the perimeter later years.

Kobe in the 2001 Playoffs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29.4 ppg 7.3 rpg 6.1 apg 1.6 spg 0.8 bpg on 56%TS Not bad, eh?

(led the Lakers in apg, btw)

Despite having Shaq on his team, he led the team in Winshares & had the exact same WS/48 as Shaq.

How is it that a 22 year old Kobe managed to lead a team to the most dominant Playoff run ever, stomping a 55 win Kings & a 58 win Spurs (with the best defense in the league) on the road to the Finals with 12 straight wins in the Playoffs?

Kobe against the Kings: 35.0 ppg 9.0 rpg 4.3 apg on 47% shooting
Let's see how the next round fared:
Kobe against the Spurs: 33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg on 51% shooting

He had back to back 45+ point 10+ rebound 3+ ast games.
Game 4 vs the Kings & Game 1 against the Spurs.
Two of the toughest defenses in the league, btw.

Re: 2001 http://www.nba.com/playoffs2001/finals/west/recap_sas_lal_010527.html?nav=ArticleList
It was an embarrassing end for a team that won 58 regular-season games and was supposed to be part of one of the great playoff series in NBA history, matching the champions of the last two seasons.

San Antonio became the first team with the best regular-season record to be swept in the playoffs since Portland did it to the Lakers in the 1977 West finals. Popovich credited the Lakers rather than blame the Spurs.

"It's a lot of factors, but the main reason for the result of this series is the Los Angeles Lakers basketball team," Popovich said. "They were awesome. That's the bottom line."
Click to expand...
Please, don't forget how great Kobe has been throughout his career because his team sucks now. It's embarrassing.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
Khalifa Jayy said:
Please, don't forget how great Kobe has been throughout his career because his team sucks now. It's embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Please. Kobe's impact wasn't as good as Duncan's, and Duncan never had a teammate that rivaled Shaq. Cherry picking one playoffs matchup doesn't make up for Duncan's superior play in the playoffs and finals, or that he's an all time great rim protector and go to post and pick and roll player. Duncan ranks higher on all time lists especially when ranking finals performances, and has been for years.

Duncan is a big man that led his team in assists, scoring, rebounds, blocks, and nearly had a quad dub in 03 Finals, which is insane
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Khalifa Jayy said:
Frobe was an animal during the playoff runs of 2000-2002. Are you forgetting what Kobe did to the Twin Towers of Duncan/Robinson? Not to mention going up against "Kobe stopper" Bruce Bowen on the perimeter later years.

Kobe in the 2001 Playoffs

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
29.4 ppg 7.3 rpg 6.1 apg 1.6 spg 0.8 bpg on 56%TS Not bad, eh?

(led the Lakers in apg, btw)

Despite having Shaq on his team, he led the team in Winshares & had the exact same WS/48 as Shaq.

How is it that a 22 year old Kobe managed to lead a team to the most dominant Playoff run ever, stomping a 55 win Kings & a 58 win Spurs (with the best defense in the league) on the road to the Finals with 12 straight wins in the Playoffs?

Kobe against the Kings: 35.0 ppg 9.0 rpg 4.3 apg on 47% shooting
Let's see how the next round fared:
Kobe against the Spurs: 33.3 ppg 7.0 rpg 7.0 apg on 51% shooting

He had back to back 45+ point 10+ rebound 3+ ast games.
Game 4 vs the Kings & Game 1 against the Spurs.
Two of the toughest defenses in the league, btw.

Please, don't forget how great Kobe has been throughout his career because his team sucks now. It's embarrassing.
Click to expand...

As good a perimeter defender as Kobe was 10 years ago. He's never approached the level of contribution Duncan's had on that end of the court(nor the consistency). No team has ever won the NBA title without elite rim protection, but plenty have won without an off the dribble creator.

Can't just look at one end of the court.
 
S

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Abounder said:
Please. Kobe's impact wasn't as good as Duncan's, and Duncan never had a teammate that rivaled Shaq. Cherry picking one playoffs matchup doesn't make up for Duncan's superior play in the playoffs and finals, or that he's an all time great rim protector and go to post and pick and roll player. Duncan ranks higher on all time lists especially when ranking finals performances, and has been for years.
Click to expand...

Duncan has had quite a few teams as good as or better than the Lakers early 00's teams. Including the '04 team that only lost to the Lakers because D Fish pulled a miracle out of his ass.

Smellycat said:
Kobe was the MVP only once? wow I had no clue
Click to expand...

Nash winning 04-05 over Shaq was bad, but Nash winning in '06 over Kobe/Dirk/Wade was a travesty.

cdyhybrid said:
Duncan. He was always the best player on his team, something Kobe can't say for any of his rings.
Click to expand...

You realize the Lakers won in 2009 and 2010, right?
 
D

Dreams-Visions

Member
Smellycat said:
Kobe was the MVP only once? wow I had no clue
Click to expand...

lol @ Steve Nash stealing 2 of Kobe's MVP's.

I think the answer is clearly Kobe. People seem quick to forget that basketball is a team sport, and Duncan has benefitted from playing for one of the most well-run organizations in professional sports. Duncan never had a year of playing with shit teammates (Kobe has had several of those such seasons).

Put Duncan on some of the rosters that Kobe has been stuck on in the last several years and tell me Duncan pushes those teams further. I just don't see it, and Duncan is one of my favorite players of all time. Conversely, put Kobe on some of those Spurs teams and they shit on the NBA every year. Imagine a lineup of:

Parker / Mills
Bryant / Ginobli
Leonard / Anderson
Diaw
Splitter

For fucks sake.

Getting back to the question at hand...reflecting...I'd say Duncan has had the better career. Good highs without the lows (thanks to the organization). Kobe, however, was the far better player in his prime. If he had the kind of talent and depth to play with that the Spurs have been able to cultivate, this conversation wouldn't even be happening because Kobe would have 7 or 8 rings by now. And I'm *not* a Kobe fan.
 
S

Simply Sarah

Member
Kill3r7 said:
Tim Duncan is the greatest PF of all time and one of the most underrated modern day players. The Black Mamba is at best, the second greatest SG of all time.

Enough said.
Click to expand...

Considering the identity of the greatest shooting guard of all time, I'm not sure saying that Kobe is behind him can really count as much of a black mark.
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
Dreams-Visions said:
lol @ Steve Nash stealing 2 of Kobe's MVP's.

I think the answer is clearly Kobe. People seem quick to forget that basketball is a team sport, and Duncan has benefitted from playing for one of the most well-run organizations in professional sports. Duncan never had a year of playing with shit teammates (Kobe has had several of those such seasons).

Put Duncan on some of the rosters that Kobe has been stuck on in the last several years and tell me Duncan pushes those teams further. I just don't see it, and Duncan is one of my favorite players of all time. Conversely, put Kobe on some of those Spurs teams and they shit on the NBA every year. Imagine a lineup of:

Parker / Mills
Bryant / Ginobli
Leonard / Anderson
Diaw
Splitter

For fucks sake.

Getting back to the question at hand...reflecting...I'd say Duncan has had the better career. Good highs without the lows (thanks to the organization). Kobe, however, was the far better player in his prime. If he had the kind of talent and depth to play with that the Spurs have been able to cultivate, this conversation wouldn't even be happening because Kobe would have 7 or 8 rings by now. And I'm *not* a Kobe fan.
Click to expand...

I disagree. The Spurs would not be anywhere near as good without Duncan. Kobe with that group of players would have a pretty low ceiling due to lack of low post scoring. Plus, Kobe takes way too many shots to really fit the Spurs philosophy. That said, he would have thrived playing with the Admiral.

Simply Sarah said:
Considering the identity of the greatest shooting guard of all time, I'm not sure saying that Kobe is behind him can really count as much of a black mark.
Click to expand...

You are right but I still can't get over the folks who claim Kobe is better than Jordan.
 
K

Ken Masters

Banned
Duncan and it's not fucking close


Duncan won an NBA title as the only all star on his team, Kobe can't get out of the first round without an all star big in their prime
 
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