Oda is generally good with power creep tho. Really loved, especially in Impel Down, how old characters were still relevant, both as persons and in terms of power instead of becoming completely outmatched jobbers. There is reasonable hope that Smoker and Tashigi can power-up a bit where they are a match for single strawhats.
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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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More Fun To Compute
Member
Smoker and Tashigi are going to Vegapunk so probably next time we see them every button on their coats will have eaten a different devil fruit and they will shoot lasers from their toenails.
is she going to train for 5 years with that swordsman? zoro maybe trained 2 years with mihawk so she is insanely far behind now. i wonder if there's going to be a one piece version of miyamoto musashi. if there is then he might be associated with kaido so zoro has an extremely strong opponent to fight. if there is one then he is sure to show up at wano. him and maybe kojiro.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I hope Tashigi gets Monet's fruit now that she's dead and it's going to regenerate.
Speaking of that, I really wonder how the devil fruits will tie into the series' lore. Maybe One Piece relates to their origins?
Speaking of that, I really wonder how the devil fruits will tie into the series' lore. Maybe One Piece relates to their origins?
gundamkyoukai
Member
Yes he is but characters getting stronger and them keeping with monster like luffy and zoro is another thing .
For eg coby has gotten much stronger but to expect him to be on the same level as luffy at the end on the manga unless another time skip happen is crazy IMO.
The same for others characters like Tashigi , there is a reason why Kuzan said the SH scared the shit out of him .
The growth is crazy fast people seem to forget that the SH did all that shit pre time skip in 4 or so months .
Yeah, it's very unlikely, especially since Zoro is training constantly. Unless he falls into coma for 9 years. I know what Tashigi needs.
I am the bone of my sword
Steel is my body and fire is my blood
I have created over a thousand blades
Unknown to Death, Nor known to Life
Have withstood pain to create many weapons
Yet, those hands will never hold anything
So as I pray, unlimited blade works.
Well, the Strawhats could hit a slope in their power increase. Like the the stage in life where you need 50 million fucking exp for the next level without anything that grants you any worth close, so you just stay on the level for a while.
More Fun To Compute
Member
The Miyamoto Musashi character would be Ryuuma the king of wano country and Zoro took his sword from his body. But Admiral Ryokugyu could easily be great swordsman to learn from as it's sort of expected for him to be based on the actor Toshiro Mifune who is known for playing a lot of samurai including Musashi.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I don't think the manga is going to last that long for us to see something like that unless oda does a epilogue time skip at the end .
Plus at the end of the day some characters just going to be stronger than others so they going to get level cap lol .
Sure, btu Tashigi and Coby are basically made to grew exponentionally to reach their idol/rival. The message of One Piece was - for me at least - always "follow your dreams!" and not "you weak brah, deal with it".
Cloud Strife
Member
Imperial Bishop
Banned
You're forgetting that Luffy and Zoro trained for years to reach the level of skill they had at the start of their journeys.
Luffy was already strong as hell when he left Fuschia Village and didn't face a really tough opponent until he fought Crocodile.
gundamkyoukai
Member
If your weak you get help from people .
Following your dreams don't mean you have to get stronger \match other characters .
Part of OP is also depending on others .
Aside from the SH i won't say any other characters in the manga going to reach there idol/rival is for certain .
And everyone he face had years of experience fighting people also .
All you have to do is look at what luffy and zoro were doing at the start of manga and then compare it to what there were doing at end before the time skip .
For eg in 4 months time zoro learn to cut steel and do flying slashes that was big enough to cut building apart not mention how much stronger he got physical .
Yes there base strength\skill was strong when they start but there are still monsters .
Grasping at strawFruit of the D.evil?
hat
Smoker has already bested luffy 3 times and there last fight in marine ford he kicked luffy ass, hancock didn't beat him she stopped him twice from getting to luffy.
Vergo the same vice admiral who broke sanji leg, beat law pretty badly then wooped smoker then with help of smoker was defeated by law.
if vergo never had law's heart then law would have easily defeated him just as he did when he got back his heart.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Smoker is a weakling by New World standards. He was really powerful before haki was introduced, but now he hasn't grown much. I bet he wouldn't stand a chance against Luffy or most other haki users.
Surprised sugar didn't know or care about monet being dead.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Hancock outclassed Smoker more easily than Vergo although that was before Smoker learned Haki. But it's hard to take a Luffy defeat seriously when he hardly notices he was fighting at all and a friend helps him.
Imperial Bishop
Banned
I'm not saying that they didn't have amazing growth during their travels up to the time skip. Just that they were already considered "monsters" when they were first introduced.
gundamkyoukai
Member
That is true .
Talking about this remind me of the first time we saw Mihawk beat Zoro.
Man it has already been 17 years since then i feel old .
RomanceDawn
Member
Those of you that believe Oda is not leading up to something significant for Tashigi, you haven't been reading long enough.
Again I'm not talking about gaining some sort of level up through training or what have you. Im talking more along the lines of major character development and significant development within the marines. What exactly I don't know but this whole "weak woman Tashigi" thing isn't being played for laughs like Buggy.
It's kind of like Tiger storming Mariejois. We were told about it twice over with a flash back surrounding that very character but nothing to show but dialogue.There is so much to that event that Oda continues to shroud it in mystery. There is going some major exposition at some point. It's being built up for something big.
Same with Jinbe's scar. We are going to dive even further into Jinbe's history and learn why he got that scar. It was deliberately left out of the flash back constantly and I guarantee you that scar will be tied into Jinbe's goals(which we might already know) and his exact reason he wants to join to the Straw Hats.
Again I'm not talking about gaining some sort of level up through training or what have you. Im talking more along the lines of major character development and significant development within the marines. What exactly I don't know but this whole "weak woman Tashigi" thing isn't being played for laughs like Buggy.
It's kind of like Tiger storming Mariejois. We were told about it twice over with a flash back surrounding that very character but nothing to show but dialogue.There is so much to that event that Oda continues to shroud it in mystery. There is going some major exposition at some point. It's being built up for something big.
Same with Jinbe's scar. We are going to dive even further into Jinbe's history and learn why he got that scar. It was deliberately left out of the flash back constantly and I guarantee you that scar will be tied into Jinbe's goals(which we might already know) and his exact reason he wants to join to the Straw Hats.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
MrSaturn99
Member
Yeah, I'm with Romance on this. To what extent it'll be developed remains to be seen but there's no way the whole Tashigi thing won't be built upon.
At the very least it's not going to end up like Rebecca (or Sakura if we're going to bring up other series).
At the very least it's not going to end up like Rebecca (or Sakura if we're going to bring up other series).
gundamkyoukai
Member
I think she got some character development during PH .
People just saw her losing fights but she figure out what was going with the children .
We also saw that she is willing to throw her pride if it for the greater good which tell us a lot about her moral values .
Her getting stronger or going up in rank in the marines is to be expected , the samething if she help change the marines coming on to the end of the series.
Oda likes his long build ups, so I can believe Oda is building up to something with Tashigi and the whole gender thing. It's been the subject of Zoro and her relationship, and before her Zoro and Kuina. My counter to that is that it doesn't really have much meaning when the build up is so ridiculously large as this. We're one chapter short of 800, and Tashigi is still walking around failing at life, her only claims to fame being pointless stuff like deflecting a random cannonball that one time, which any halfway decent putz has been able to do since part 1. Assuming that she finally does get what she wants at the end of chapter 59235, my reaction isn't going to be a realization she was awesome all along. It's going to be a 'fucking finally.'
Let me be clear about one thing: this wouldn't be a problem if there were a bunch of other women kicking ass at their job. Imagine if Trafalgar or Kidd were women, and there were more women sprinkled on throughout the Eleven Supernovas. Imagine some other characters besides Hancock were women in the Shichibukai. Lets have more marines be women than the few that are there. With a bunch of women kicking ass on their own, then Tashigi's failure would only be reflective of herself. But there are very few women who have been show to not only have their own agency and also being strong powers under their own terms. Tashigi isn't a problem because she's a failure. It's because her narrative is, for whatever reason, explicitely centered around exploring women's power, in a series where women typically are under-represented, unempowered, and over sexualized, while also failing at life at every opportunity. As such, it's hard to see Tashigi not being representative of the problem OP has with women, even though she's specifically the character designed to address this stuff.
Let me be clear about one thing: this wouldn't be a problem if there were a bunch of other women kicking ass at their job. Imagine if Trafalgar or Kidd were women, and there were more women sprinkled on throughout the Eleven Supernovas. Imagine some other characters besides Hancock were women in the Shichibukai. Lets have more marines be women than the few that are there. With a bunch of women kicking ass on their own, then Tashigi's failure would only be reflective of herself. But there are very few women who have been show to not only have their own agency and also being strong powers under their own terms. Tashigi isn't a problem because she's a failure. It's because her narrative is, for whatever reason, explicitely centered around exploring women's power, in a series where women typically are under-represented, unempowered, and over sexualized, while also failing at life at every opportunity. As such, it's hard to see Tashigi not being representative of the problem OP has with women, even though she's specifically the character designed to address this stuff.
She wasn't that weak if she was partnered with Mr 9.
I was just watching a bunch of early OP including Whisky Peak and...they're all pretty much jabronis up until Mr 3 and Miss Goldenweek. Zoro is immensely stronger than Ms. Friday, whose whole thing is being strong. Igaram just has his Trigun gun horn. Mr. 9 has bats and acrobatics and is a total pushover. Vivi has her duck, perfume, and her peacock slashers. Heck even Mr 5 and Miss Valentine get one shot at Whisky Peak, though they get their revenge later.
BW is very top heavy.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Why ?
All this post boil down to is they are less women in OP so they should be made to look better .
I never said or implied that even remotely. If anything, I'm saying the better solution is to have a greater population of women that don't suck. However, my post was about why tashigi gets loaded with the sexism stuff even more than other female characters and how she works within the narrative.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I really hope they start heading to Wano or Zo by Chapter 800. Dressrosa has been overstaying its welcome for a long time.
I also hope Wano is an Autumn island because I don't think we've seen one of those yet.
I also hope Wano is an Autumn island because I don't think we've seen one of those yet.
Cloud Strife
Member
I don't see why they wouldn't, but yeah that would be pretty cool (an Autumn island).
There are a lot of things we need to be brought to speed on concerning Big Mom and Zoan Girl.
RomanceDawn
Member
People forget things like this, especially these days. What really intrigued me about One Piece is that the main characters were not the under dogs. I knew instantly One Piece would be special when the super hyper Don Kreig pulled his spiked cape and Luffy punched right through it! I used to think, ok here is the new villain with some over powered ability and it's going to be an eternal struggle to work around it. But no, the early villains are the ones who have to work around the Straw Hats. There is always legitimate danger from the stranger abilities but even Arlong's officers were nothing compared to Zoro and Sanji.
When Luffy actually lost to Crocodile and Aokiji that actually shook me because it carried so much weight.
We are back in that phase of just how powerful are they? And I love it!
800 will be declining or accepting the fleet and possibly departing.
Frozenprince
Banned
It's feudal japan. It's going to be spring because of course it's spring how else would there be cherry blossoms?
Cloud Strife
Member
I like the way you phrase this, and it's so true thinking back on the early days.
The contrast between Hawkeye and Krieg was especially interesting because you literally had Zoro's end game goal right there, and he was powerless despite all of the wins up until that point.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
This works hand in hand with the way One Piece handles its narratives. We usually get the Straw Hats coming into a conflict, background on the conflict, actually seeing the conflict happen, and then the Straw Hat savior figures come in and fix things normal people couldn't. It's the ultimate feel good formula, especially because each conflict is usually very grounded, whether it's large in scale (CP9 represents the darker side of the world government and the power they wield, Shandia and Skypiea disagree with each other, Arabasta is being taken over by a false hero) or smaller in scale (Norland is a liar, Bellamy is a big shot rookie pirate bully who has power to back it up, Morgan is a corrupt Marine captain) and those within each conflict struggle greatly, as real people would. Then the supernaturally powerful Straw Hats come in and give reality the old one-two punch. It's part of the whole "dreams come true" thing One Piece has going; the Straw Hats always miraculously sweep in and save the day, not as heroes per say, but more like a force of nature fixing what seemed to be a doomed situation.
gundamkyoukai
Member
The narrative that men are stronger than women at least for being a swordman .
That is a debate i don't think people ever going to agree on .
Cloud Strife
Member
It's almost like Luffy's unintentional "Ninja Way", the shit from Naruto.
With all the parallels to Roger and the D., I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of larger destiny at work here where Luffy's personality/actions that undermine authorities and portray real heroism are the "key" to One Piece. There aren't really any Pirate crews in the world that have done similar actions as the Strawhats for the reasons they were done. (Saving Robin, punching a Celestial Dragon, "discovering" Skypeia).
A narrative is present in pretty much every other form of combat too, yes. Women are consistently portrayed as a minority in literally every group except for the amazons whose gimmick is that they're all women. In every major group, a high ranking woman is the notable exception. 1 out of the 11 supernova's is female. 1 of the 9 Shichibukai shown is female. 2 of the 10 strawhats are women. 1 of the 9 CP9 is female. Any given random pirate crew is mostly guys. The marines have probably upwards of 50 known enlisted with actual names, of which I recall only 3 (Tsuru, Tashigi, and that one marine woman who was never shown but mentioned in SBS) are female, and a far greater minority if we include all the random nameless marines shown, all of whom are men. And so on. In any given group, it's like Oda goes "Oh, and lets add a woman or two so that it's not a complete sausage fest", but in over 800 chapters, with hundreds upon hundreds of different groups introduced, there has never once been a crew that was well balanced in terms of gender that I recall. There are even less of them in roles of authority. All the Admirals are men. All the Gorosei are men. Nearly every Pirate captain is male (The exceptions being Big Mom, Jewelry Bonnie, Alvida, and maybe one or two others I don't recall atm).
So yes, the narrative "Women are weaker than men" is pretty much present in every power structure depicted in the manga, not just being a swordsman. Again, I don't see how this is a problem with the manga anyone could deny. People are already bitching about how the discussion has turned to sexism, and that's not something I wanted to happen because I do feel we all have said everything that could be said on the subject. But there is a resistance to the idea that I notice in the thread. Again, if people would simply acknowledge the sexism issue, then okay, there's nothing more to talk about. It's when people try to make excuses for it or dismiss it that I feel it warrants being revisited.
gundamkyoukai
Member
It's a shonen battle manga about pirates of course men going to out number the women by a huge amount .
Even if it's a fictional story don't mean oda has to make it more unrealistic in that aspect .
There being less women that men don't mean there are weaker it just mean there less of them in those things .
Again, realism in fiction is the weakest possible defense, but especially in one piece. It's is nothing less than disingenuous to suggest one piece can be written with the all the tons upon tons of liberties it has taken thus far, but women being the equals of men breaks all suspension of disbelief.
gundamkyoukai
Member
It does not break suspension of disbelief if he adds more women .
All it means is the author just want more male characters in his manga that aim at teenage boys .
The same way how he like to use real name pirates in his manga or other things from real life.
... You're not really disagreeing with me here, you realize. I'm aware writing isn't an accident that happens outside his control. I know he made the conscious choice to underrepresent women. I'm just criticizing his decision to do so.
Jigolo
Member
It's easier to ignore the discussion when it happens every week. It's the same bubble of people posting the same shit every time. Ignoring it is the best option.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Don't think we going to see eye to eye on this so best to done the debate.
Back on topic i guess fuji won't be able to go into any marines base so i wonder how oda going to play that out .
Is he just going to have him chasing after Luffy or will he show that fuji really don't care that much.
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