pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
The sexism discussion always makes me shake my head.
Let's go back to Arlong's 2-headed Monster.
Let's go back to Arlong's 2-headed Monster.
his penis
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One Piece Manga |OT| ZEHAHAHAHA! The Name of this Age is Blackbeard!
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
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Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Hey gaf look
CHOPPER
CHOPPER
More Fun To Compute
Member
Smoker did lose to Hancock and Vergo. I don't think that he has never been shown winning.
Neoriceisgood
Member
He's been shown beating Luffy. I think Oda sometimes sliiightly forgets to show us why we're supposed to consider particular characters strong again.
Wel, Vergo was even a tough match for Law, and that was with the help of Smoker. And Hancock is pretty tough, but we barely get to see her test her strength. She one-shot a Pacifista and that was at Marineford, before the timeskip. I think she is leagues above Smoker and leagues above Luffy back then too. So no wonder neither Tashigi nor Smoker could beat those people.
pelicansurf
Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
It just gets discussed every single week: the same points, the same counter-points, and then mutual disgust. Rinse and repeat. Shit gets old.
Omnistalgic
Member
definitely agreed. I really didn't like how Ace died, although it was emotional and his speech for Luffy was beautiful. I think his actual fight with the Admiral should have been longer and they should have traded more blows. Him dying to save Luffy was too predictable for 2 reasons) The "luck" card was already getting played out and (Luffy got saved like a dozen times in the war already) 2) the fight was over too quickly and didn't show why Ace was worth all the trouble in the first place.
Him getting released by Luffy had basically no impact on the war? Ace should have done a lot more damage in the war and have a proper 1v1 fight with Akainu and then loss in epic fashion. Whitebeard was there, Gramps was there, meh..didn't like the one-hit kill on Ace at all, it was easily forgiven because the speech was so beautiful and Luffy's training and progress that came from it.
flintstryker
Banned
It's worth remembering that ace wasn't at 100% when fighting Akainu
Neoriceisgood
Member
I didn't necessarily mind the one hit KO, in part cause Akainu's devil fruit does seem like it should just absolutely wreck anyone willing to touch him. (after all, look at what he did to WB)
Simultaneously it would've been nice if Ace had at least done noticable damage to at least one named character/enemy, even if it were someone vaguely meh like Moria.
Fuck, even something basic like having him actually KO someone with conqueror's haki (which he was implied to have) significantly stronger than the fodder luffy usually KOs would've worked without greatly extending the arc length.
I mean let's be honest, if Ace had CH'd someone like Moria, a marine vice admiral or a bunch of giants into fainting there would've been no doubt that his haki game was leagues beyond Luffy.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Yes, Ace has conqueror's haki. The only time he was seen using it was during his childhood flashback, but he reconfirmed it during Marineford.
The whole war could have been done way better in my opinion. All I remember is a whole lot of posturing, trading a few attacks here and there but no real fights between high level dudes. But maybe I should reread that arc to refresh my memory.
Just because you didnt like it doesnt mean it doesnt fit the OP narrative - no way in hell would Ace who was held captive for weeks after getting bodied by Blackbeard stand a chance against a Rage Mode in Akainu. Ace at his best wasnt Admiral Level ...once he faced Akainu it was over for him.
" Ace should have done a lot more damage in the war and have a proper 1v1 fight with Akainu ..."
No and no. Doesnt even make sense....this war wasnt about proper 1on1 fight but Chaos - trying to get Ace and gtfo.
You saw how long Dofla vs. Luffy/Law took...do you really expected "real fights" among all these OP Top Tier characters ? Come one guys lets be realistic for a second. Sure everything could be better but the nitpicking is getting out of hand. Rescuing Ace and escaping was the goal - not figuring out who is the strongest among them.
Cloud Strife
Member
Plus it reveals a decent amount of tidbits.
Teach not being the one Roger was looking for, a man coming forth bearing the "weight of history", and the great battle that will engulf the world.
One Piece exists!!!
Is there something wrong with having a discussion about that though? I think we can and should reflect on the media we consume, and that's also why we are here fore. That also includes how characters get treated and how we interpret that.
Of course everyone will see it a bit or even totally different. And that's why I think it will always be worth discussing. It would be a bit annoying if it is the only discussion we are having in here though, that is true.
Yeah, his and Shanks speech were pretty monumental. And Ace's little speech right before he dies was good too for that one line alone "Thank you for loving me!". That was a very emotional moment in the series.
Cloud Strife
Member
Well the Marines were definitely more concerned with Ace's potential when his lineage was revealed.
I vaguely remember something being said about Whitebeard wanting to make Ace the pirate king but I forget who said it.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Ace wrecked ~four ships (more?) in like five seconds outside of Alabasta. He's got an extremely powerful logia power. He has had intense training. He's got conqueror's haki. He's got a kick-ass special attack.
And yet people here think he's weak. Wat.
And yet people here think he's weak. Wat.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
The weak die
The strong survive. It's the only law in the sea.
Ace died which makes him weak.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Whitebeard was the most powerful man alive though.
Neoriceisgood
Member
To be fair, stuff like wrecking ships or fodder doesn't really register for readers as literally any character with a name can do that.
Heck even someone as garbage tier as Buggy manages to take out nameless fodder pirates or guards from time to time.
We've not really seen Ace defeat anyone noteworthy on screen, which is usually the best way to get some idea of a power hierarchy in a shonen series.
But he died protecting luffy so that has to count for something lol.
Tizoc
Member
I mean heck Whitebeard died protecting his family, no that makes him weak.
I don't say that he is weak, I just said that I think that he is the weakest of Whitebeards strongest. That isn't something to be ashamed of.
Well, if people didn't make dumb arguments trying to justify it that demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding of the topic, it wouldn't be necessary for it to be brought up again and again.
Is Ace being a physically a strong character really matter? His narrative purpose was to be cared for by a bunch of other characters, and he mainly just needed to be strong enough so as to hang with them. If he was weak, what difference does that make? If he was strong, the same question applies.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Jesus, it's just a discussion. Just now you were telling a guy who was opposed to having a discussion off, and now you're doing the same thing. The original comment literally was
What are we even allowed to discuss in here if people complain every time a topic is brought up? No sir, it doesn't really matter with the narrative, but on that note, neither does sexism anyway.
Of course Ace was strong he had the biggest potential of the OP characters that's why WB wanted to make him PK. He was lacking experience and hadn't reached his limit though which is why I also agree that the other Commanders were above him strength wise. I don't think Marco, Vista or Jozu would have underestimated Blackbeard the way Ace did. He was very cocky and tought his win was certain and when BB played his card Ace had no backup plan.
He cared about Luffy and WB that's why he acted as reckless but it still got him caught and killed at the end. A couple more years in and Ace would have been a Yonkou and WB replacement.
He cared about Luffy and WB that's why he acted as reckless but it still got him caught and killed at the end. A couple more years in and Ace would have been a Yonkou and WB replacement.
Uh....I didn't mean anything by that, I was sincerely just asking....
People always love to argue who the strongest is for some reason. Remember Stumpakow presents? The truth is always that it's very difficult to say actually. You can match two people in a single category against each other like physical strength, but with devilfruit powers, tools, preparation time, situation, things get very iffy. It's still fun to discuss though.
I really wish for more shounen protagonists of mediocre power. People who are forced to act smart and who can't just get random power-ups to defeat people. Hunter x Hunter did this very well, where even two of the main casts are much more powerful than the protagonist and probably even wittier in a fight. Or people who actually struggle to keep up with everyone else who is talented and better trained like Kennichi. Gon and Kennichi aren't the strongest, not even in their own groups. But they are valuable main characters.
Of course manga can still be entertaining even with power-up stuff and random spirit stuff. I love One Piece and I highly value that a lot of the characters from the beginning are still relevant. Power creep isn't hitting hard in One Piece and that's cool.
True, it's a fun topic. As I said, I wasn't criticizing the discussion being had, I was just wondering if it was relevant in any way besides just playing around with the idea, which is why I asked.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
We need some news on the new onepiece movie or something these kast couple pages have been rough
Neoriceisgood
Member
To flip the sexism design into something positive/fun;
Top 10 designs for female characters in One Piece.
Go!
Top 10 designs for female characters in One Piece.
and why if possible
Go!
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
This will end jus as bad i fear but im in!!!
Whitey bay(ice witch)
Loved!! Her design in the war to bad she didn't do much
Neoriceisgood
Member
I see no reason to exclude Ivankov,
any particular things you like about their designs? Aside from an obvious blue hair fetish?
If SBS's count, then I think the female versions of Kid and Doflamingo look pretty good. I mostly just like Kid's wild hair and Doflamingo manages to look just as menacing as a woman as he does a man, which I wouldn't say applies to everyone (just look at Kuma as a female).
I don't think I especially like anyone from the actual story's female designs, atleast no one that I can remember offhand.
I don't think I especially like anyone from the actual story's female designs, atleast no one that I can remember offhand.
Vivi's various looks from Baroque Works member to Princess all felt very natural and speaks a lot about her character development. She may have had a high standing but she risks it all to stop Crocodiles plans.
Ivankov is one of the few 'ugly' designs in One Piece. I like these designs especially for recurring characters since they tend to be very unique. The fetish gear and the overall off kilter look fit Ivankov to a T.
Hm, I'm not sure.
I can't decide which mother figure was better, Kureha with her antics and for letting Chopper stay with her as the only one in the village that wouldn't hunt him down for being a "monster".
or Belle Mère, who saved two kids when she found them on a battlefield and adopted them and going so far as to giving them a home and caring for them. And then one day even sacrificing her life in exchange for their life ( T_T).
Oh, and Nami. I like her backstory and her interactions with the crew are always funny and charming at times.
Edit:
Oh wait. Somehow overlooked that it's only about designs. xD
Oh well.
Then my choice is Kureha if it's only about design. Badass old woman who dresses like a 20-year old and raised a Reindeer boy. to be a great doctor.
I can't decide which mother figure was better, Kureha with her antics and for letting Chopper stay with her as the only one in the village that wouldn't hunt him down for being a "monster".
or Belle Mère, who saved two kids when she found them on a battlefield and adopted them and going so far as to giving them a home and caring for them. And then one day even sacrificing her life in exchange for their life ( T_T).
Oh, and Nami. I like her backstory and her interactions with the crew are always funny and charming at times.
Edit:
Oh wait. Somehow overlooked that it's only about designs. xD
Oh well.
Then my choice is Kureha if it's only about design. Badass old woman who dresses like a 20-year old and raised a Reindeer boy. to be a great doctor.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I can't decide which mother figure was better, Kureha with her antics and for letting Chopper stay with her as the only one in the village that wouldn't hunt him down for being a "monster".
Oh Kureha is a great choice.
I legitimately wanted her to be a strawhat, fml.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Thinking about it boy is it going to be fun seeing luffy go toe to toe with the strongest in the OP world .
The day he finally beat a yonko or a admiral i have been waiting to see it for years .
On a side note i really want to see the tontatta ship or how the going to travel the seas .
The day he finally beat a yonko or a admiral i have been waiting to see it for years .
On a side note i really want to see the tontatta ship or how the going to travel the seas .
More Fun To Compute
Member
Belle Mere is pretty cool I think.
1. Jewelry Bonney. You can tell that she just doesn't care what people think about her. Her odd make up and clothes don't really do much to make her look dignified or fashionable. Which totally matches up to her character and what you might expect from a pirate.
2. Curly Dadan. She is a good comic character I think but she also makes me think of an ageing actress from the golden age of Hollywood.
3 Bian. You have to respect someone who can pull off the tiny insect woman look with so much elegance.
1. Jewelry Bonney. You can tell that she just doesn't care what people think about her. Her odd make up and clothes don't really do much to make her look dignified or fashionable. Which totally matches up to her character and what you might expect from a pirate.
2. Curly Dadan. She is a good comic character I think but she also makes me think of an ageing actress from the golden age of Hollywood.
3 Bian. You have to respect someone who can pull off the tiny insect woman look with so much elegance.
RomanceDawn
Member
Smoker and Tashigi are really interesting subjects. Every time Tashigi has crossed with the Straw Hats, some issue of her being a woman or weak comes up. After the time skip she is much more capable with Haki in tow( is that the right phrase?) but still is no where near in league with Zoro. And she shouldn't be, it would be really inconsistent if she was.
Law told her right to her face that the weak don't choose how they die and we can see how that affects her, she is helpless against Vergo and Zoro helps her against Monet. I know a lot of readers get so pissed at her portrayal but does no one stop to think that this must be building to something big? One would think, most of the weak issues would have been taken care of off panel and while she is stronger, she just isn't as strong as she would like to be. There is some major long term stuff building with her and I don't mean something simple and as straight forward as her training under Mihawk or Boguard.
Smoker was put into a really odd situation as well. We are to believe that he is to Luffy what Garp was to Roger. Vergo was the most powerful enemy on Punk Hazard, and knowing what we know now, it's only fitting Law was able/chosen by Oda to defeat him. Not to mention Smoker purposely fought in an "unintelligent" way to sneak the Law's heart away. But he did get defeated about 3 time that day. And it seems that there is no way he is in Luffy's league. I have to wonder what does Oda plan to do with him?
End of series, guys like Smoker, Tashigi, Koby, they will be the leaders of the reformed Marines but in the present its a real mystery. Very exciting too.
Law told her right to her face that the weak don't choose how they die and we can see how that affects her, she is helpless against Vergo and Zoro helps her against Monet. I know a lot of readers get so pissed at her portrayal but does no one stop to think that this must be building to something big? One would think, most of the weak issues would have been taken care of off panel and while she is stronger, she just isn't as strong as she would like to be. There is some major long term stuff building with her and I don't mean something simple and as straight forward as her training under Mihawk or Boguard.
Smoker was put into a really odd situation as well. We are to believe that he is to Luffy what Garp was to Roger. Vergo was the most powerful enemy on Punk Hazard, and knowing what we know now, it's only fitting Law was able/chosen by Oda to defeat him. Not to mention Smoker purposely fought in an "unintelligent" way to sneak the Law's heart away. But he did get defeated about 3 time that day. And it seems that there is no way he is in Luffy's league. I have to wonder what does Oda plan to do with him?
End of series, guys like Smoker, Tashigi, Koby, they will be the leaders of the reformed Marines but in the present its a real mystery. Very exciting too.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Bluntly said: I don't think it's building up to anything.
There's often this weird thing, I'm not sure if it's related to Japanese culture or what, where sorta weak characters (often female) constantly get played around with in this sorta.. "oh no they are strong.. PSYCHE"-fashion.
Notable examples to me would be Sakura in Naruto, who's had several "look I can compete" arcs or moments just for her to entirely regress into the worst tropes and traits associated with her.
Within One Piece Rebecca's entire arc during Dressrosa felt like that in a nutshell, She had so many "Oh I'm gonna fight" [immediately needs rescue] moments up until the very end where Doflamingo toyed with her during the final fight.
I actually think the Tashigi stuff should be more interpreted as her being used as a device to show how raw and manly Zoro is, rather than her percieved weakness necessarily being some major thing that'll develop for her over time.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
1. Monet. She looks extremely stylish and chilling, perfect for her character. Also liked her design as a human before she got more extravagant. A very "cool" character all around. By the way, did you know she's Sugar's older sister?
2. Pre-timeskip Nami. Love her orange hair (tangerines!) and it looked great short. That's not why I prefer her pre-timeskip design, though; she usually had very stylish outfits back then and her current ones don't tend to have nearly the same amount of fashion sense to them. Love her original outfit and her Water 7 suit especially.
3. Vivi. A relatively reserved design, but still stands out due to her candy cane blue hair and hairstyle. She had a neat weapon, too, even if she barely used it - and her peacock motif was a neat idea, although underutilized. Despite not really appearing in extravagant clothing too often, she always oozed a sense of regality and determination. Her personality shone through her design.
2. Pre-timeskip Nami. Love her orange hair (tangerines!) and it looked great short. That's not why I prefer her pre-timeskip design, though; she usually had very stylish outfits back then and her current ones don't tend to have nearly the same amount of fashion sense to them. Love her original outfit and her Water 7 suit especially.
3. Vivi. A relatively reserved design, but still stands out due to her candy cane blue hair and hairstyle. She had a neat weapon, too, even if she barely used it - and her peacock motif was a neat idea, although underutilized. Despite not really appearing in extravagant clothing too often, she always oozed a sense of regality and determination. Her personality shone through her design.
Well, I hope Bum Sengoku and Bum Garp use their time to train those guys to a New World level. I also think that it would be cool if Mihawk isn't actually the strongest swordfighter. I mean, he is offically, but there could be better swordfighters out there who just didn't care for the title or don't know if they're actually better and don't want to risk that they aren't. Or someone who used to be a master, but was injured or gave up the sword for some reason. One of those could train Tashigi and bring her to a level that she could actually be a foe to Zoro. In any case, I want a happy go lucky Marine crew of misfits that can keep up with the Strawhats.
And yeah, Vivi was great. That's a physically weak female character done right. She wasn't a powerhouse when it came to fighting and was literally on par with the weakest numbered Baroque agents, but nevertheless she was strong. Furthermore she wasn't even ruined by the love interest she had. She wasn't focused on him, he was just part of her duty, not her whole life. She was dressed decently most of the time.
And yeah, Vivi was great. That's a physically weak female character done right. She wasn't a powerhouse when it came to fighting and was literally on par with the weakest numbered Baroque agents, but nevertheless she was strong. Furthermore she wasn't even ruined by the love interest she had. She wasn't focused on him, he was just part of her duty, not her whole life. She was dressed decently most of the time.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I really don't think anything is building with her .
Yeah she going to get stronger but she will never be in the big boy leagues .
People talk about how she was treated but the fact was she was just out class just like smoker and other characters .
Just like how law was out class this arc and to think before this arc we had people saying how broken and unbeatable he look .
What happen to rebecca was people expectations of her , she was not the characters they wanted .
I mean after one chapter people were saying how strong is and others stuff .
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