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[Mibu no ookami]

Feeling nostalgic right now. Remember when twelve years ago everybody was calling the end of consoles and games as you know them, and everybody was going to have to go mobile?

Those were the days.

I'd say it was the beginning of the end for console gaming as we know it as soon as they #1 went online and #2 had hard drives for more than caching the games to reduce load times.

Once games could be downloaded and patched console gaming became much more like PC gaming than console gaming.

It was also the beginning of the end of retail purchasing of video games as we know it.

 

[adamsapple]

On a serious note, i would prefer platform holders stick to smaller acquisitions and keep their grubby hands of big publishers.

I can agree.

Acti/Blizz is a juggernaut and if it goes through, the wait might be worth it.

But I reckon MS could have easily sweeped up half a dozen smaller studios and IPs (especially all the shit Square pawned off last year) for peanuts, if they weren't already tied in one big acquisition.

 

[HTK]

I don't know about this thread to be honest.

I think Sony is actually going with the flow of the market, keeping the old business console model and investing in gamepass type of a model and building out that tech. I do believe they have some key acquisitions that need to be made, Take 2 would be nice and believe it or not I've heard this before from inside sources. They are already expanding to PC, it's only a matter of time for Sony TV's to come with a PlayStation App. I feel like they could always make mobile games if they want to go after that market, or they could just acquire a studio that already has a stake in that market. I think they'll be fine they have a strong brand.

 

[Interfectum]

Can you quote where I said it means they won't dedicate to producing top notch consoles and games? I specifically said the opposite.

I don't think either T2 or Epic are big enough to warrant much regulatory objection. Less than half the size of Activision and without as much consideration of Microsoft owning Azure and Windows. Epic might be a bigger concern than T2 given Unreal, but Sony can probably get away with contracts maintaining pricing for UE for a period.

Sorry if I misunderstood you earlier. I get that you're saying Sony will still focus on making great consoles and games while also exploring other markets.

Now, about the T2 or Epic acquisitions, I get where you're coming from, but I've got to disagree. While it's true that they might not raise as many red flags as the Activision-Blizzard acquisition, there's still a chance of running into some regulatory issues. The size difference and Microsoft's ownership of Azure and Windows might help, but there could still be some pushback.

As for Epic, owning Unreal Engine might raise a few eyebrows, but like you mentioned, maybe Sony could figure out some contracts to keep UE pricing in check for a while. That might help ease concerns. However, there's also the possibility that Unreal Engine may lose relevance if other developers opt for alternative engines, especially if they're concerned about an engine being owned by a platform holder.

But, I think it's important to remember that acquisitions like these come with their own set of challenges. Sony's gotta think about whether these deals really make sense for them, how well they can integrate the companies, and if they can actually use their strengths to keep up with the competition. Just my two cents, though!

 

[mrmustard]

Wtf is this thread? We're still celebrating the Xbox bashing weeks festival so please be patient until it's Sony's turn.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I don't know about this thread to be honest.

I think Sony is actually going with the flow of the market, keeping the old business console model and investing in gamepass type of a model and building out that tech. I do believe they have some key acquisitions that need to be made, Take 2 would be nice and believe it or not I've heard this before from inside sources. They are already expanding to PC, it's only a matter of time for Sony TV's to come with a PlayStation App. I feel like they could always make mobile games if they want to go after that market, or they could just acquire a studio that already has a stake in that market. I think they'll be fine they have a strong brand.

Like Apple and others, there would be little value in limited a PlayStation app to just Sony TVs. That's the headspace that has to change. It's the old way of thinking.

It's not easy to just jump into the mobile market. They've tried with ForwardWorks with extremely limited success. The barriers of entry in the market are pretty large, which is why T2 who owns Zynga is a great option now.

Sony is going with the flow now, but the ABK deal successful or not has shaken the market. That's why they pulled the trigger on Bungie at the price they did.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Sorry if I misunderstood you earlier. I get that you're saying Sony will still focus on making great consoles and games while also exploring other markets.

Now, about the T2 or Epic acquisitions, I get where you're coming from, but I've got to disagree. While it's true that they might not raise as many red flags as the Activision-Blizzard acquisition, there's still a chance of running into some regulatory issues. The size difference and Microsoft's ownership of Azure and Windows might help, but there could still be some pushback.

As for Epic, owning Unreal Engine might raise a few eyebrows, but like you mentioned, maybe Sony could figure out some contracts to keep UE pricing in check for a while. That might help ease concerns. However, there's also the possibility that Unreal Engine may lose relevance if other developers opt for alternative engines, especially if they're concerned about an engine being owned by a platform holder.

But, I think it's important to remember that acquisitions like these come with their own set of challenges. Sony's gotta think about whether these deals really make sense for them, how well they can integrate the companies, and if they can actually use their strengths to keep up with the competition. Just my two cents, though!

Epic is already a platform holder with Epic Game Store. I don't see any concerns around that. The market is fast changing and I think most companies recognize that. Maybe you get some pullback from say Microsoft, but that's probably the extent of it.

The biggest concern is whether Sony would be able to leverage Epic Game Store and PlayStation store to increase pricing in Unreal, and with Xbox and Steam, I don't think they would be able to. And they can agree to not charge more money for other platforms than Sony. They could agree to that in perpetuity.

I don't think there is any chance T2 would be blocked. Epic maybe behavioral conditions.

 

[HTK]

Like Apple and others, there would be little value in limited a PlayStation app to just Sony TVs. That's the headspace that has to change. It's the old way of thinking.

It's not easy to just jump into the mobile market. They've tried with ForwardWorks with extremely limited success. The barriers of entry in the market are pretty large, which is why T2 who owns Zynga is a great option now.

Sony is going with the flow now, but the ABK deal successful or not has shaken the market. That's why they pulled the trigger on Bungie at the price they did.

They've tried with limited success sure, but who's to say they really tried? Put one of their premier studios on a mobile game and we'll see what happens. I do think it would be the best decision to acquire T2 if at all possible.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Wtf is this thread? We're still celebrating the Xbox bashing weeks festival so please be patient until it's Sony's turn.

What part of this thread bashed Sony?

They've tried with limited success sure, but who's to say they really tried? Put one of their premier studios on a mobile game and we'll see what happens. I do think it would be the best decision to acquire T2 if at all possible.

Putting one of their premier studios on mobile gaming, takes away from console gaming, which I don't think they should do nor do I think they want to do.

 

[truth411]

While I understand your concerns about Sony's market position and the need for them to expand into other platforms, I disagree with the notion that their focus on consoles will diminish and that they cannot continue to compete effectively in the video game market.

Firstly, it is important to recognize that Sony has a strong, loyal customer base in the console gaming market. They have a solid track record of producing high-quality consoles and games, and their PlayStation brand is synonymous with gaming excellence. Sony has a competitive edge in terms of their exclusive IPs and partnerships with developers. These factors contribute to their continued relevance in the console gaming market.

Secondly, while the home console market may be worth only $20 billion, it is a growing market, and it is still a significant portion of the overall video game market. It is unlikely that Sony would abandon such a profitable segment. Instead, they may choose to diversify their business and enter new markets without abandoning their core console gaming focus.

Moreover, Sony's recent foray into the PC market and potential expansion into mobile gaming do not necessarily indicate a shift away from console gaming. Rather, they are likely exploring additional revenue streams and tapping into new markets, which can help support and bolster their console gaming business.

Furthermore, while it is true that Sony's market cap is smaller than that of some of their competitors, it is important to remember that not all of these companies are fully focused on the video game industry. In fact, many have diversified businesses, and their market caps are reflective of their overall operations, not just their gaming divisions. Thus, it is not entirely accurate to compare Sony's market cap directly with these other companies when discussing the video game industry.

Lastly, while it is possible that Sony will need to make major investments to keep pace with larger competitors, it is also essential to recognize the value of organic growth and strategic partnerships. Acquiring big companies like T2 or Epic might bring short-term gains, but it might also lead to integration challenges, potential antitrust scrutiny, and other issues. Focusing on developing strong relationships with smaller developers and publishers could prove to be a more sustainable growth strategy in the long run.

In conclusion, while it is crucial for Sony to adapt to the changing landscape of the video game industry, I believe they will continue to maintain their focus on console gaming and can successfully compete against their larger rivals. It is essential for them to explore new markets and diversify their business, but this should not come at the expense of their core console gaming operations.

/Thread.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

I find it funny how people keep throwing shade on the console market like it is doomed. People will prefer a traditional console over the cloud for a while. The infrastructure is nowhere where it needs to be until we have a Netflix level of disruption in the market.

Sony has a lot of people invested in their ecosystem, they could in all fairness migrate most of those people to their next big thing, assuming Cloud Gaming take over. The only way I see cloud gaming dethroning local machines is IF, every major city in the world has its own data-center to serve locally each region.

I live in Brazil that is a giant country, and for obvious reasons Microsoft concentrate their data-centers on the southeast of the country where the majority of people live. What happens to peasants like me that live in the north of the country? xCloud is unbearable with thanks to high latency and instabilities where people who live near the datacenters enjoy a good enough experience, but even they can feel the difference in response in anything that needs it like first-person shooters. Gaming is an interactive activity, different from movies, the Netflix comparison is way more complex in this arena.

We play at 4k120 output resolution, that eats 32Gbits of data through hdmi. There is no way internet will keep that fidelity, we will have encode and decode latency, infrastructure latency, Wi-Fi latency. I'm not saying that will not be the future, I'm just not convinced we are at this point on a near future.

 

[ElCasual]

Searching the thread of the end of Atari.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Sony could put their foot down and release uncharted 6, they have so much firepower.

 

[PC Gamer]

 

[MikeM]

So we are basing this off market cap? Lol…

When you think of gaming, you think of Nintendo and Sony. Mindshare is important.

Then take a look at earning reports for both. Seem pretty damn good to me.

TLDR Playstation is not going anywhere.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Let it all out my friend. It's better that way.

It's been a tough week for green rats.

Tough week? It's been a tough few years with a few glimmers of hope and one genuinely awesome fresh game in Hi Fi Rush.

Now I'm hearing starfield is the next potential mega dud...

...someone hold me.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I find it funny how people keep throwing shade on the console market like it is doomed. People will prefer a traditional console over the cloud for a while. The infrastructure is nowhere where it needs to be until we have a Netflix level of disruption in the market.

Sony has a lot of people invested in their ecosystem, they could in all fairness migrate most of those people to their next big thing, assuming Cloud Gaming take over. The only way I see cloud gaming dethroning local machines is IF, every major city in the world has its own data-center to serve locally each region.

I live in Brazil that is a giant country, and for obvious reasons Microsoft concentrate their data-centers on the southeast of the country where the majority of people live. What happens to peasants like me that live in the north of the country? xCloud is unbearable with thanks to high latency and instabilities where people who live near the datacenters enjoy a good enough experience, but even they can feel the difference in response in anything that needs it like first-person shooters. Gaming is an interactive activity, different from movies, the Netflix comparison is way more complex in this arena.

We play at 4k120 output resolution, that eats 32Gbits of data through hdmi. There is no way internet will keep that fidelity, we will have encode and decode latency, infrastructure latency, Wi-Fi latency. I'm not saying that will not be the future, I'm just not convinced we are at this point on a near future.

What shade exactly has been thrown here? I never even mentioned the cloud.

I specifically call out Mobile and PC, which are large market bases that exist today.

 

[Games of Today]

I have a simple rebuttal to this.

We saw what Playstation's dev studios achieved on the PS3. While Xbox 360 was kicking it's ass in sales.

We saw how games like Killzone Shadow Fall, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman and The Last of Us 2 running on a base PS4.

Now we have the PS5. It's outselling Xbox Series consoles by a significant amount, it's power is that of a slightly above mid-tier gaming PC and we have yet to see the heavy hitters of this generation.

I can only imagine what new first party games are going to look and feel like. There is no way but up from here.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

What shade exactly has been thrown here? I never even mentioned the cloud.

I specifically call out Mobile and PC, which are large market bases that exist today.

I wasn't exactly responding to your specific post. PC and Mobile I don't think Sony would have a problem getting into those markets as a third-party developer, I don't think it would be a good move to make a storefront in those markets. The only real threat to Sony's console business is the cloud, which is why I quoted.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So we are basing this off market cap? Lol…

When you think of gaming, you think of Nintendo and Sony. Mindshare is important.

Then take a look at earning reports for both. Seem pretty damn good to me.

TLDR Playstation is not going anywhere.

Wow, I shouldn't have gotten cute with the threat title, because people don't read threads.

I brought up market cap, because it goes to the ability for companies to leverage their buying power against smaller competitors, particularly in new markets.

Nintendo and Sony have mind share in console/handheld gaming, they don't in PC and Mobile. They can leverage that mindshare to gain more market share in PC and Mobile, but they need to have the infrastructure to build out in those markets.

Neither Nintendo or Sony generate nearly enough annual revenue to compete head to head with Microsoft, Apple, and Google in the mobile/PC markets today.

PlayStation isn't going anywhere? How is that your take away from what I said?

Define Apple in the 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, and 2020s....

Is Apple the same company that we know today as they were in 1990?

In the 1990s they were somewhat of a niche OS. In the early 2000s they garnered more OS success targeting colleges with the iMac, which eventually lead to the macbook. They also gained massive success leveraging iTunes and iPod which lead to the iPhone. This largely lead to a larger ecosystem of devices. They've taken their success with the iPhone to Apple CarPlay and Apple Music, which lead them to Apple TV, Apple News, and Apple Arcade (among other things)... and largely Apple One.

They certainly aren't the same company, which isn't a negative thing.

I'll admit I got cute with the thread title, but basically, everyone who jumped in here didn't actually read the thread.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I have a simple rebuttal to this.

We saw what Playstation's dev studios achieved on the PS3. While Xbox 360 was kicking it's ass in sales.

We saw how games like Killzone Shadow Fall, Ghost of Tsushima, Spiderman and The Last of Us 2 running on a base PS4.

Now we have the PS5. It's outselling Xbox Series consoles by a significant amount, it's power is that of a slightly above mid-tier gaming PC and we have yet to see the heavy hitters of this generation.

I can only imagine what new first party games are going to look and feel like. There is no way but up from here.

What is this a rebuttal to?

 

[mrmustard]

What part of this thread bashed Sony?


Putting one of their premier studios on mobile gaming, takes away from console gaming, which I don't think they should do nor do I think they want to do.

The part where he is doomsaying which implies that what Sony is doing right now is no good and has no future.

 

[saintjules]

While I understand your concerns about Sony's market position and the need for them to expand into other platforms, I disagree with the notion that their focus on consoles will diminish and that they cannot continue to compete effectively in the video game market.

Firstly, it is important to recognize that Sony has a strong, loyal customer base in the console gaming market. They have a solid track record of producing high-quality consoles and games, and their PlayStation brand is synonymous with gaming excellence. Sony has a competitive edge in terms of their exclusive IPs and partnerships with developers. These factors contribute to their continued relevance in the console gaming market.

Secondly, while the home console market may be worth only $20 billion, it is a growing market, and it is still a significant portion of the overall video game market. It is unlikely that Sony would abandon such a profitable segment. Instead, they may choose to diversify their business and enter new markets without abandoning their core console gaming focus.

Moreover, Sony's recent foray into the PC market and potential expansion into mobile gaming do not necessarily indicate a shift away from console gaming. Rather, they are likely exploring additional revenue streams and tapping into new markets, which can help support and bolster their console gaming business.

Furthermore, while it is true that Sony's market cap is smaller than that of some of their competitors, it is important to remember that not all of these companies are fully focused on the video game industry. In fact, many have diversified businesses, and their market caps are reflective of their overall operations, not just their gaming divisions. Thus, it is not entirely accurate to compare Sony's market cap directly with these other companies when discussing the video game industry.

Lastly, while it is possible that Sony will need to make major investments to keep pace with larger competitors, it is also essential to recognize the value of organic growth and strategic partnerships. Acquiring big companies like T2 or Epic might bring short-term gains, but it might also lead to integration challenges, potential antitrust scrutiny, and other issues. Focusing on developing strong relationships with smaller developers and publishers could prove to be a more sustainable growth strategy in the long run.

In conclusion, while it is crucial for Sony to adapt to the changing landscape of the video game industry, I believe they will continue to maintain their focus on console gaming and can successfully compete against their larger rivals. It is essential for them to explore new markets and diversify their business, but this should not come at the expense of their core console gaming operations.

Pretty much sums it up there. In addition to, as long as Sony has Developers like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica, a slew of quality indie games, etc. making high quality games consistently driving those sales, I hardly see any reason to see a demise for Playstation.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The part where he is doomsaying which implies that what Sony is doing right now is no good and has no future.

Quote me anywhere in this thread where I’ve said this.

It’s the opposite.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Pretty much sums it up there. In addition to, as long as Sony has Developers like Naughty Dog, Insomniac, Santa Monica, a slew of quality indie games, etc. making high quality games consistently driving those sales, I hardly see any reason to see a demise for Playstation.

Jesus.

Put the console warring lens off for two seconds and realize change doesn’t equate to demise.

In 1994, Sony was an electronics company. Today they’re a multimedia company, with significantly higher market cap. Hardly demise, but they have changed.

 

[Games of Today]

What is this a rebuttal to?

It's a rebuttal to your general sentiment that it's the beginning of the end of Playstation. It's not even close to being the case.

Xbox is far worse off at the moment with Redfall's horrible launch and the potential dismissal of the Activision deal.

Playstation is holding their cards while being silent and watching the competition. If the PS showcase is as big as people think it might be. This generation could get wild.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Would be nice to get a showcase....

 

[mrmustard]

Quote me anywhere in this thread where I’ve said this.

It’s the opposite.

I understand the headline and 'For Sony to stay relevant in the video game market, they're going to have to quickly expand to other platforms' as criticism/dooming. But no need to worry it was a joke anyways, because the forum is flooded with MS concern and bash threads.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

It's a rebuttal to your general sentiment that it's the beginning of the end of Playstation. It's not even close to being the case.

Xbox is far worse off at the moment with Redfall's horrible launch and the potential dismissal of the Activision deal.

Playstation is holding their cards while being silent and watching the competition. If the PS showcase is as big as people think it might be. This generation could get wild.

Jesus

Did I say the end of PlayStation or did I say the end of PlayStation as we know it.

Where do I make any mention of Xbox? Other than it being behind Sony this generation?

You can’t make this up.

 

[ReBurn]

"The way we always did it" doesn't work forever. "Beginning of the end" is hyperbole, but the business models of these companies will have to change. That's why Sony is going hard on live service. A lot of people who aren't us want that and it's a good way to drive recurring revenue. Based on the poll Topher did most of us are yelling at clouds with one foot in the grave anyway.

 

[StueyDuck]

genuinely struggling to see which thread is the parody thread and which one is the console war thread, i'm guessing this is the console war one right?

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It likely is the end of the PS we know.

They are going to bring the first pro console to market this gen

They are bringing more games to PC

They are bringing a handheld device

They are selling PS5s at a record pace.

It is indeed the end of them as we knew it, they are only getting bigger and better

 

[Mibu no ookami]

"The way we always did it" doesn't work forever. "Beginning of the end" is hyperbole, but the business models of these companies will have to change. That's why Sony is going hard on live service. A lot of people who aren't us want that and it's a good way to drive recurring revenue. Based on the poll Topher did most of us are yelling at clouds with one foot in the grave anyway.

This is my point. Old models are dying. Console gaming changed drastically when we went from cart to disc, when we went from 2d to 3d. When we went from low res to hi res. When we added hard drives and online. When we added digital retail.

Gaming as we’ve known it no longer exists and the companies that existed at the time are no longer the same.

I regret my decision to copy the thread template of the other thread. I thought it was clever but didn’t realize the console warring that would follow, especially since the OP is very positive on Sony.

To think I’ve even been called a green rat in this thread after how (rightfully) critical I’ve been of Microsoft on this forum.

 

[Games of Today]

Jesus

Did I say the end of PlayStation or did I say the end of PlayStation as we know it.

Where do I make any mention of Xbox? Other than it being behind Sony this generation?

You can’t make this up.

I'm not saying that you literally said that Playstation is just going to go extinct. And I'm the one who brought up Xbox.

But to me saying that it's the end of Playstation as we know it essentially means the company is going to fail and be outperformed by other companies to the point where there's no longer a point of buying games for that console.

Those two ideas are not far off from eachother in my opinion.

And I don't think there is a chance of that happening anytime soon. I don't see how porting games to PC changes PS as we know it? It's still the same company to me and has only gotten better.

I think PS would be fine without CoD. I do agree with you though on the point that they may be looking to acquire T2. Imagine the sway they would have if Red Dead 3 or GTA was a PS exclusive.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm not saying that you literally said that Playstation is just going to go extinct. And I'm the one who brought up Xbox.

But to me saying that it's the end of Playstation as we know it essentially means the company is going to fail and be outperformed by other companies to the point where there's no longer a point of buying games for that console.

Those two ideas are not far off from eachother in my opinion.

And I don't think there is a chance of that happening anytime soon. I don't see how porting games to PC changes PS as we know it? It's still the same company to me and has only gotten better.

I think PS would be fine without CoD. I do agree with you though on the point that they may be looking to acquire T2. Imagine the sway they would have if Red Dead 3 or GTA was a PS exclusive.

Saying that PlayStation is ending as we know it doesn’t mean it is due to fail. It means that it’s changing its meaning.

Putting games on PC is just their first start at becoming platform agnostic. Which again is a change against how we’ve known them.

None of that is to suggest their games or consoles will stop selling.

And if they bought T2 they wouldn’t make their games exclusive.

 

[Sethbacca]

Over a year ago I made a thread about Sony's new business pillars. At the time people largely still felt that Jim Ryan was failing at his duties, but a year later I think things are quickly becoming quite clear.

Sony vs The World
Sony Group has a market cap of 115 billion dollars. That's quite small compared to some of their competitors. Their competitors are Microsoft (2.27T), Apple (2.67T), Google (1.34T), Amazon (1.06T), Nvidia (696B), Tencent (410B), and even Netflix (141B).

I really don't get why people list the full market cap of a company as though that's fully committed to a gaming division. At the end of the day all of these companies have a gaming division that is not the full focus of their respective corporations. Does anyone really think any of these companies are going to commit 1-2 trillion dollars to their gaming divisions? Realistically MS have shown that their coffers don't mean shit outside of acquisitions since they are mismanaging the fuck out of their existing studios. Clearly all the money in the world can't fix the issues they're having at the moment.

 

[ReBurn]

This is my point. Old models are dying. Console gaming changed drastically when we went from cart to disc, when we went from 2d to 3d. When we went from low res to hi res. When we added hard drives and online. When we added digital retail.

Gaming as we’ve known it no longer exists and the companies that existed at the time are no longer the same.

I regret my decision to copy the thread template of the other thread. I thought it was clever but didn’t realize the console warring that would follow, especially since the OP is very positive on Sony.

To think I’ve even been called a green rat in this thread after how (rightfully) critical I’ve been of Microsoft on this forum.

I think the companies are making the changes they feel they need to make. Things like live service and subscription are not going anywhere, and will only grow in importance, because it is taking longer and longer for the premium one time sale model to see ROI. Whatever allows them to monetize sooner and keep people paying over time it's what is going to happen.

A lot of us don't like the thought that we may not get big premium releases for every game the way we do now, so we say that the current way is fine and successful and nothing needs to change. That's a big bottle of copium. I'm betting that if Sony weren't getting their store cut from third party for the premium model they would struggle to fund their first party the way they do. If third parties start to migrate to more freemium live service games it would introduce instability and risk into Sony's revenue stream. Which is why Sony is investing in that model.

 

[Gorgon]

I can see Jimbo taking Sony to new heights if they appoint him as CEO for the whole Sony Corp just like Kaz Hirai saved Sony from the verge of bankruptcy when he was CEO.

Fine. Just don't bring back Ken Kutaragi.

 

[AJUMP23]

As soon as I saw a console with wings, I knew all hope had taken flight.

 

[akaFullmetal]

I guess the "Sony too" threads are showing up.

 

[Moriarty1889]

At the rate the PS5 is selling I don’t think Sony have much to be worried about. They continue to be the hardcore console for gamers that always delivers in creating amazing AAA first party games. That alone is becoming more rare by the day in the industry. Gamers will always support that and the Playstation in the end.

 

[spookyfish]

Has anyone made the "it's the end for Nintendo" thread yet so we have all three?

Now, you know Nintendo is always d00med.