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Opinion: The PS4 will support 4K blu-ray

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B

biggersmaller

Banned
Classic thread. For the uninitiated:

1. PS4 still doesn't support UHD disks.

2. The PS4 may be able to support it via firmware update if Sony deems it worthwhile.

3. There's this really emotional user called jeff_rigby who indignantly wants everyone on this forum (perhaps the world) to trust his technobable posts that "prove" the PS4 is able to support UHD disks.
 
T

thetester77

Member
Is Jeff still trolling and pushing out the same info as before that both Microsoft and Sony have debunked?

I can't go through this again, I saw the thread title and got excited for a minute as I've pre ordered a Pro. Imagine my disappointment when I see the 1st post was yours truly Jeff Rugby.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Bowler said:
I'm on #teamRigby

Here's why, my other forum I'm on religiously is the AVS forums, and a lot of what he is saying has been confirmed by people in the know that have tore apart the ps4 chip by chip. To the people just blantly calling Jeff a lier is shit tier because these other people also in the know, can't honstly figure out why Sony hasn't initiated uhd, and even more importantly, coming out with the pro, and saying no to 4k discs, yet the specs prove it is very possible.
Click to expand...

Because think Sony has bigger plans than UHD Blu-ray

Ultra is coming to Windows 10 devices next year & I think it will also come to PS4 & Xbox One which will have Ultra in more homes then UHD Blu-ray. You can buy the UHD Blu-ray & use UltraViolet to play it through Ultra , Vudu , Amazon , Google Play & so on.
 
G

Gator86

Member
Elandyll said:
Locked hopefully.

Every time I see it pop up I think some news have surfaced that actually warranted that title, and every.single.time. it ends like this

IgMyx.gif


Oh... Just Rigby up to his usual nonsense.
Click to expand...

Yup, no clue why they let this shit go. It's just endless shitposting. I also thought it was some recent news and, nope, just Rigby garbage.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
jeff_rigby said:
Of

The derailing by defending myself is one of the Mods reasons for the NeoGAF temporary ban. He should have warned the posters they were derailing the thread but he apparently thinks that my fixation on PS4 hardware features is somehow wrong and of course he is a left wing sympathizer and my bringing speculation from a doctor on HRCs possible medical issues is a ban-able offence but other people stating she has a neurological issue without supporting cites is not ban-able. I guess I made too strong a case by prefacing that people with the issue I listed usually die of Pneumonia due to swallowing difficulties.
Click to expand...

help
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
thetester77 said:
Is Jeff still trolling and pushing out the same info as before that both Microsoft and Sony have debunked?

I can't go through this again, I saw the thread title and got excited for a minute as I've pre ordered a Pro. Imagine my disappointment when I see the 1st post was yours truly Jeff Rugby.
Click to expand...

we wouldn’t be surprised to see Sony add the 4K Blu-Ray support that by rights the PS4 Pro should’ve had from the very start.

http://digitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/090816_1630 said:
However, it’s been noted around the Net in the last day or so that the actual disc structure and drive hardware are essentially the same between regular Blu-ray and 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray. So it seems very possible that, once Sony Consumer Electronics’ set-top Ultra HD Blu-ray player finally arrives in stores and sells through for a while, you could see Sony Interactive Entertainment surprise people with a firmware update that adds full 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc compatibility to the PlayStation 4 Pro.
Click to expand...


PS4 Pro 4K Blu-ray update could be added in the future
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
jeff_rigby said:
we wouldn’t be surprised to see Sony add the 4K Blu-Ray support that by rights the PS4 Pro should’ve had from the very start.




PS4 Pro 4K Blu-ray update could be added in the future
Click to expand...

Jeff, I believe that if it were possible, Sony would have scrambled to do it when the Xbox One S was released. That (Xbox One S revelation) would have been considered a confounding element to whatever the heck the supposed strategy of not doing it is based on. Financially they would benefit more from increased 4k?HDR and disc sales than they would from the paltry sales of a Sony standalone player.

They'd have nothing to lose and plenty to gain IF it were trivial firmware updates as you infer.

Also, if the OG Xbox were capable of doing it out of the box, that would have been a competitive advantage against PS4 for the last year that for reasons, MS allegedly ignored? I'm trying to fathom the business strategy here. There's no TrustZone deep enough for me to grok it.
 
C

cakely

Member
jeff_rigby said:
The derailing by defending myself is one of the Mods reasons for the NeoGAF temporary ban. He should have warned the posters they were derailing the thread but he apparently thinks that my fixation on PS4 hardware features is somehow wrong and of course he is a left wing sympathizer and my bringing speculation from a doctor on HRCs possible medical issues is a ban-able offence but other people stating she has a neurological issue without supporting cites is not ban-able. I guess I made too strong a case by prefacing that people with the issue I listed usually die of Pneumonia due to swallowing difficulties.
Click to expand...

Well, that was fun. I would say that I'll miss reading your posts, but this thread already has more than enough dishonesty in it.
 
M

Morts

Member
FlashbladeGAF said:
Sony doesn't want the sales of...
...it's 4k UHD Player to be affected by the sales of...
it's PS4 Pro, which doesn't want to affect the sales of...
it's PS4 (new/slim).
Click to expand...

This is dumb. I'm not going to upgrade to a PS4 Pro AND get a separate UHD player for $300 some dollars. Especially since I already have to upgrade my receiver - which is one of the least exciting things to buy ever - in order to easily set all this stuff up. Lack of UHD blu ray in the Pro doesn't sell me on a Sony player, it just makes me less likely to buy either.

And this thread title is super misleading.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
Stinkles said:
Jeff, I believe that if it were possible, Sony would have scrambled to do it when the Xbox One S was released. That would have been considered a confounding element to whatever the heck the supposed strategy of not doing it is based on. Financially they would benefit more from increased 4k?HDR and disc sales than they would from the paltry sales of a Sony standalone player.

They'd have nothing to lose and plenty to gain IF it were trivial firmware updates as you infer.
Click to expand...

This is absolutely correct. Sony made a business decision to omit UHD playback from the PS4 Pro. The idea that there has been some multi-year, multi-layered strategy dating back to the release year of the OG PS4 regarding UHD BD playback assumes a level of vision that, frankly, doesn't exist at the corporate level in the consumer electronics world.

jeff_rigby said:
PS4 Pro 4K Blu-ray update could be added in the future
Click to expand...

From the article:
"It’s been noted around the Net in the last day or so that the actual disc structure and drive hardware are essentially the same between regular Blu-ray and 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray,” says Bill."

It's been noted. Around the net. Jeff, I'm just about 100% sure that the only person "around the net" that's been floating this idea is you.
 
spookyfish

spookyfish

Member
So, for this reason, then, regular blu-ray players could be upgraded via a firmware update?

Electronics manufacturers better say that's a) not the case or b) hope the general public never really finds this out.

Surely someone out there could mod theirs, if so, right?

EDIT: For the record, I'm highly doubting this.
 
L

Latvian Hitman

Member
spookyfish said:
So, for this reason, then, regular blu-ray players could be upgraded via a firmware update?
Click to expand...

AFAIK- there's exactly one person who is convinced that this is the case.

There is reason to believe that BDXL readers for PC could become UHD BD playback devices with the proper drivers/licensing keys added at some point, but that's about it. And there's no reason to believe that said drivers/keys will ever be distributed to the public. Why hand people the tools required to break the encryption and start pirating the discs?

ArmageddB said:
HDMI 1.4 can become HDMI 2.0a through a firmware upgrade.
Click to expand...

It can, theoretically be done, but I can't think of a case where it was. Right now it's unclear whether the OG PS4 has been/can be upgraded to 2.0a/HDCP 2.2. Seems unlikely to me, as Sony has yet to trumpet anything about 4K/HDR playback from Netflix on the OG PS4, which requires both 2.0a and HDCP 2.2. May seem like a strange litmus test, but Sony made some noise at their event about the fact that PS4 Pro will see 4K/HDR support for Netflix, but mum's the word with the base model. That usually means it's not happening and there's really only one plausible reason why it wouldn't be.
 
A

ArmageddB

Member
HDMI 1.4 can become HDMI 2.0a through a firmware upgrade.


Does HDMI 2.0 require new connectors?
No, HDMI 2.0 uses the existing connectors.

Does HDMI 2.0 require new cables?
No, HDMI 2.0 features will work with existing HDMI cables. Higher bandwidth features, such as 4K@50/60 (2160p) video formats, will require existing High Speed HDMI cables (Category 2 cables).

Can my existing HDMI 1.x devices be upgraded with HDMI 2.0 features?
Currently, there are no provisions for doing such an upgrade. Because of the new enhanced feature set, any such conversion would require hardware and/or firmware upgrades. If there are such conversions, it would come from the manufacturer. Please check with them directly.
Click to expand...

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx

Will HDMI 2.0a require special hardware support or is this a firmware/software only upgrade?
This is dependent on manufacturers and their system designs. Please contact the manufacturers for detail of their system designs and upgradability.

Will this use the same physical HDMI 2.0 connector?
Yes. Existing HDMI connectors will still be used.
Click to expand...

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0a_faq.aspx
 
A

AngelOFDeath

Member
I guess it can be upgraded?

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-2-0-what-you-need-to-know/

Software update?
There's some confusion right now as to whether HDMI 1.4 products (like all current Ultra HD TVs) can be upgraded via a simple downloaded firmware update. Sony is saying its products can do this, but HDMI.org says that's not universal. From HDMI.org: "Currently, there are no provisions for doing [a 1.x to 2.0] upgrade. Because of the new enhanced feature set, any such conversion would require hardware and/or firmware upgrades. If there are such conversions, it would come from the manufacturer. Please check with them directly."
Click to expand...

This is oh so confusing
 
dr_rus

dr_rus

Member
ArmageddB said:
HDMI 1.4 can become HDMI 2.0a through a firmware upgrade.




http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0_faq.aspx



http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0a_faq.aspx
Click to expand...

1.4 to 2.0 is a serious change in hardware used which you can guess from the version number change and I don't know any cases where a 1.4 device was updated to 2.0 device with a firmware.

2.0 to 2.0a can be done with a firmware upgrade as it's a rather minor change in transport protocol which you can guess from the version number change again. All NV Maxwell cards got from 2.0 to 2.0b with new drivers for example. PS4 doesn't have HDMI 2.0 however, it has 1.4.
 
F

FlashbladeGAF

Member
Morts said:
This is dumb. I'm not going to upgrade to a PS4 Pro AND get a separate UHD player for $300 some dollars. Especially since I already have to upgrade my receiver - which is one of the least exciting things to buy ever - in order to easily set all this stuff up. Lack of UHD blu ray in the Pro doesn't sell me on a Sony player, it just makes me less likely to buy either.
Click to expand...

Of course not, but Sony hopes you will.
They will hold out as long as possible before they "activate" the UHD Blu-ray in the PS4
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
Stinkles said:
Jeff, I believe that if it were possible, Sony would have scrambled to do it when the Xbox One S was released. That (Xbox One S revelation) would have been considered a confounding element to whatever the heck the supposed strategy of not doing it is based on. Financially they would benefit more from increased 4k?HDR and disc sales than they would from the paltry sales of a Sony standalone player.

They'd have nothing to lose and plenty to gain IF it were trivial firmware updates as you infer.

Also, if the OG Xbox were capable of doing it out of the box, that would have been a competitive advantage against PS4 for the last year that for reasons, MS allegedly ignored? I'm trying to fathom the business strategy here. There's no TrustZone deep enough for me to grok it.
Click to expand...
Grok, my favorite SF Book; Stranger in a Strange Land .

Yeah, 2013 XB1 supporting HD HEVC profile 10 but not HDMI 2.0a does not make sense if Microsoft knew HDR for 1080P games and Media was a big thing. We only have Penello's word that there is no HDMI 2.0a port. Considering PCs have to do HDCP 2.2 in the TEE before the video exits the TEE, the XB1 could have done the same by just forwarding HDCP negotiation...they don't even need to support 4K @ 60Hz, standard HDMI 1.4 clock rates would work....it's just the HDCP 2.0a negotiation.

As a Developer, when did you hear that all PS4s would support HDR?. I quoted Ito's Oct 2015 interview where he mentioned it but only about 2 weeks before the Playstation meeting. I've been posting for about 8 months that HDR is very easy for a Source to support, it's the display that has to have the support built in. Ito's interview is the earliest HDR is mentioned for anything until GDC as far as I have been able to find.

1) So why didn't Sony announce HDR support in 2013?
2) Why did they say DLNA wasn't going to be supported in the PS4 at Launch when they had plans to support Vidipath which requires DLNA? Why list wmdrm for DLNA DTCP-IP in the PS4 legal notices if they weren't going to support DLNA?
3) Why did they say the Southbridge chip couldn't support background firmware update when all it needed was access to the crytography accelerators in the Southridge ARM Trustzone TEE? Had to wait for TMP 2.0?
4) Why the on-again off-again support for mono in the PS3. Unlike the PS4, a JIT compiler would be difficult to implement on a PS3 CELL but they had plans to use MONO for commercial apps which is why they had Playstation mobile
5) Why is there a late 2014 job listing to create Playready embedded apps for the PS3, PS4 and Vita yet none have been released and no announcement from Sony for the PS4 except the Legal disclosure of Playready.

If we are following the strange logic the above statements seem to indicate, Stating that UHD Blu-ray is not going to be supported on the PS4 Pro means it's coming far enough in the future that they have to lie about it or next Holiday 2017. When are PCs going to get UHD blu-ray support? If it's late next year we have our answer.
 
A

androvsky

Member
jeff_rigby said:
A small one considering the timing. Microsoft did a Windows 10 update August 2 to support TMP 2.0 which is needed for HDCP 2.2 which is then used for Miracast, Vidipath, HDMI 2 etc.

Sony's support for HDR is coming in games at nearly the same time AMD GPUs will support HDR....early next year. The AMD GPUs that support HDR are the AMD GPUs that support UHD with a HDMI 2.0a port. Sony want's game developers to support HDR and those game developers will do this because they can port the game to PCs and support HDR.

Here’s Why PS4K’s Ace Will Be HDR Support, More Than Any Resolution Boost which links to this article: AMD Bringing Better Pixels to PC, HDR and Larger Color Space to Consumers
.

Microsoft to implement HDR support in DirectX 12 in Windows 10 and Xbox One

Microsoft is going to be prioritizing HDR (High Dynamic Range) on all of their devices as developers start embracing DirectX 12. The second part of the session was heavily focused on HDR (High Dynamic Range). Microsoft seems to be fully on board with this technology and it predicts that it will spread faster than 4K, because the difference is more clearly noticeable for customers. Both of these will be available to developers at some point in 2016, with a projected availability for the public in 2017.

DirectX-HDR-Support-768x498.jpg



13554436-0ca4-4915-8caf-6f571b8eb2d1.jpg


Multi GPU support also includes APU GPU plus dGPU working together.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing anything in any of that even hints at HDCP 2.2 in the PS4 4.0 update.


By the way, be careful citing vague non-technical articles, chances are you're essentially citing yourself at this point even if it's a couple degrees of separation.
 
A

ArmageddB

Member
dr_rus said:
No. Your PS4 is able to transmit HDR metadata over a HDMI 1.4 transport in hope that most HDR TV sets will accept said data from said source.
Click to expand...

The HDMI 2.0a specification is the one that allows the transfer of HDR metadata:

What is it about HDR that requires the format extension?
There is additional metadata is that required to deliver the enhancements offered by HDR. HDMI 2.0a adds the ability for devices to be able to transmit/receive this metadata.
Click to expand...

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_0/hdmi_2_0a_faq.aspx
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
dr_rus said:
1.4 to 2.0 is a serious change in hardware used which you can guess from the version number change and I don't know any cases where a 1.4 device was updated to 2.0 device with a firmware.

2.0 to 2.0a can be done with a firmware upgrade as it's a rather minor change in transport protocol which you can guess from the version number change again. All NV Maxwell cards got from 2.0 to 2.0b with new drivers for example. PS4 doesn't have HDMI 2.0 however, it has 1.4.
Click to expand...
What wasn't ready to support HDMI 2 in 2013 was HDCP 2.2 in a fixed function HDMI chip. Clock and resolution timings were known.

Exposed pins where unencrypted commercial video can be accessed is not now allowed for 1080P and 4K media. So HDCP 1.4 and 2.2 must occur in the PS4 media TEE.

HEwTruVdhAuXZiHr.medium


Sony had designs that could be firmware updated to HDMI 2 with HDCP 2.2 in 2013 TVs. Game Consoles or TVs that are going to also support Miracast or Playready already have, or are planning to have a HDCP 2.2 routine in the TEE. In either case forward the negotiation for HDCP to the TEE. In either case the media is encrypted before it exits the TEE in the game consoles and is encrypted until it's in the TEE in the TV. All Sony 4K TVs are smart TVs which are going to support Miracast so they have a TEE with HDCP 2.2.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
viHuGi said:
So my OG Ps4 has HDMI 2.0a?
Click to expand...

No.

Bowler said:
I'm on #teamRigby

Here's why, my other forum I'm on religiously is the AVS forums, and a lot of what he is saying has been confirmed by people in the know that have tore apart the ps4 chip by chip. To the people just blantly calling Jeff a lier is shit tier because these other people also in the know, can't honstly figure out why Sony hasn't initiated uhd, and even more importantly, coming out with the pro, and saying no to 4k discs, yet the specs prove it is very possible.
Click to expand...

We don't like crazy hypothesis that have been proven false.

onQ123 said:
Because think Sony has bigger plans than UHD Blu-ray

Ultra is coming to Windows 10 devices next year & I think it will also come to PS4 & Xbox One which will have Ultra in more homes then UHD Blu-ray. You can buy the UHD Blu-ray & use UltraViolet to play it through Ultra , Vudu , Amazon , Google Play & so on.
Click to expand...

You're betting on Ultraviolet to justify Sony not putting UHD support at all in the PS4P? Good luck.

onQ123 said:
Yep only thing keeping the PS4's from playing UHD movies is security policies & I think that is being worked on over the next few months after the Pro comes out.
Click to expand...

No.
 
N

Noobcraft

Member
onQ123 said:
Yep only thing keeping the PS4's from playing UHD movies is security policies & I think that is being worked on over the next few months after the Pro comes out.
Click to expand...
Doesn't the lens also need a mirror of some sort to read the 3rd(?) layer of a UHD disc?
 
W

WickedLaharl

Member
jeff_rigby said:
Of course not, but you notice I am not NOW being called mentally ill, crazy, or insane. Multiple articles are now posting what I have been posting for a year+.

I have been proved right on 1/2 of the hardware feature needed to support UHD Capable and 1/3 of that needed to support UHD Blu-ray with a website where Sony says that the PS4 is UHD capable which would make the PS4 2/3 of the way to UHD blu-ray. More coming features will prove more and more.

Read the thread and notice my stating that the PS4 has a HDMI 2 port has posters calling me crazy. My sticking to my initial statement that the PS4 would support UHD or UHD blu-ray has many calling me crazy, a fraud a Troll etc. Everywhere, including the off topic threads, my stance is assumed inaccurate and used to destroy the messenger.

The derailing by defending myself is one of the Mods reasons for the NeoGAF temporary ban. He should have warned the posters they were derailing the thread but he apparently thinks that my fixation on PS4 hardware features is somehow wrong and of course he is a left wing sympathizer and my bringing speculation from a doctor on HRCs possible medical issues is a ban-able offence but other people stating she has a neurological issue without supporting cites is not ban-able. I guess I made too strong a case by prefacing that people with the issue I listed usually die of Pneumonia due to swallowing difficulties.
Click to expand...

tumblr_m1obhaFXos1rn95k2o1_250.gif
 
O

onQ123

Member
NeOak said:
No.



We don't like crazy hypothesis that have been proven false.



You're betting on Ultraviolet to justify Sony not putting UHD support at all in the PS4P? Good luck.



No.
Click to expand...

Yes Ultraviolet , Disney Anywhere & so on is one of the best things to happen for media in years I can buy a Blu-ray & never have to open that Blu-ray just put the code in & play it anywhere I like using whatever app I want Vudu , Amazon video , Google Play & others just that simple, convenience make up for the quality not being better then Blu-ray ray.
 
O

onQ123

Member
Noobcraft said:
Doesn't the lens also need a mirror of some sort to read the 3rd(?) layer of a UHD disc?
Click to expand...

I said UHD not UHD Blu-ray.


I really don't think Sony have much faith in UHD Blu-ray & know that people will take the ease of streaming to any device over having to insert a UHD Blu-ray.


I'm also betting on Sony having a UHD Blu-ray player that will stream to other devices on your network including PS4.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
I knew jeff_rigby was unbanned when I saw this thread again.

What's funny is when new people show up and are like "OMG MY PS4 SUPPORTS IT?!?!?!" because I guess the thread title will forever live in infamy.
 
A

Afrikan

Member
Jeff, the part about

In the picture/flow chart is a FHDTV which I take to mean Future HDTV
Click to expand...


couldn't the "F" stand for FULL?

like FULL HDTV? 1080P

I've usually seen this type of wording with Laptops and Video Cameras, when distinguishing themselves from 720p screens that are still considered HD.

so 720p = HD
1080p = FHD

fake edit- yup actually it's talking about streaming and it says "current TVs"... so I'm guessing it means 1080p streams (FHD)


just pointing that out to see if it helps you rethink something.
 
J

jeff_rigby

Banned
-ImaginaryInsider said:
So he's bumping this thread now to avoid folks seeing all the points Adam and others made.

Classic Rigby.
Click to expand...
No, I chose this thread because it's where I started Page 1 with the discovery that the PS4 HDMI chip has exposed pins which is not allowed for DRM reasons thus HDCP must be done in the media TEE. Since Miracast is going to be supported, the TEE will have a HDCP 2.2 routine which can be used for HDMI 2.0

I'm going to respond to Adam and the others later in the other thread.
 
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