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[tmdorsey]

I would think with the first UHD players and disks hitting retail in the next month this would be as good a time as any to announce and push a firmware update out to turn on 4K Blu Ray playback.

Sadly I don't have much faith of it happening, especially with that Ito guy on record saying currently PS4s don't have the capability to play the UHD disks. From a business standpoint that statement alone gives SCE what they need to go the "enhanced PS4 w/ UHD support" route. I think that's a fail though because I don't see people double dipping on a freaking PS4 for UHD support and true videophiles aren't going to go PS4 to fulfill there UHD needs, they will go the standalone player route.

 

[boredandlazy]

I was reading the Blu-ray.com forums yesterday and I learnt that UHD Blu-rays will potentially be laden with DRM.

Each disc requires a certificate to be downloaded to the player in order for the disc to actually work. Now apparently most early discs will have the certificate on disc so there won't be many issues with those, but the functionality is there for discs to require downloading these certificates from the internet.
Of course some details are a bit vague at the moment, but this poses a few questions. Is the disc shareable or sellable? What happens if the servers eventually go offline? Are you able to download a certificate whilst in a different country from where the disc originated? Etc.

Basically I no longer care about UHD. So therefore whether the PS4 can play them or bot is almost irrelevant to me.

 

[Occam]

I was reading the Blu-ray.com forums yesterday and I learnt that UHD Blu-rays will potentially be laden with DRM.

Each disc requires a certificate to be downloaded to the player in order for the disc to actually work. Now apparently most early discs will have the certificate on disc so there won't be many issues with those, but the functionality is there for discs to require downloading these certificates from the internet.
Of course some details are a bit vague at the moment, but this poses a few questions. Is the disc shareable or sellable? What happens if the servers eventually go offline? Are you able to download a certificate whilst in a different country from where the disc originated? Etc.

Basically I no longer care about UHD. So therefore whether the PS4 can play them or bot is almost irrelevant to me.

If true, I can't see myself ever buying even a single one of these. When you punish legitimate consumers, you are doing it wrong. DRM on consumer discs makes no sense: Hackers will find a way to remove it and those DRM-free copies will then be spread via the internet. If the studios weren't run by fucking idiots, they'd sell DRM-free copies that could be freely converted and used on all devices.
(Pardon the language, I don't usually resort to this but I think it's warranted in this case.)

 

[Dreamwriter]

and true videophiles aren't going to go PS4 to fulfill there UHD needs, they will go the standalone player route.

You might be surprised, videophiles bought PS3s for Blu-Ray playback. Not only was it the cheapest Blu-Ray player, it was one of the best.

 

[onQ123]

I was reading the Blu-ray.com forums yesterday and I learnt that UHD Blu-rays will potentially be laden with DRM.

Each disc requires a certificate to be downloaded to the player in order for the disc to actually work. Now apparently most early discs will have the certificate on disc so there won't be many issues with those, but the functionality is there for discs to require downloading these certificates from the internet.
Of course some details are a bit vague at the moment, but this poses a few questions. Is the disc shareable or sellable? What happens if the servers eventually go offline? Are you able to download a certificate whilst in a different country from where the disc originated? Etc.

Basically I no longer care about UHD. So therefore whether the PS4 can play them or bot is almost irrelevant to me.

If true, I can't see myself ever buying even a single one of these. When you punish legitimate consumers, you are doing it wrong. DRM on consumer discs makes no sense: Hackers will find a way to remove it and those DRM-free copies will then be spread via the internet. If the studios weren't run by fucking idiots, they'd sell DRM-free copies that could be freely converted and used on all devices.
(Pardon the language, I don't usually resort to this but I think it's warranted in this case.)

I think this will be so that you can play the movie on other devices once you buy it & not just on the UHD Blu-ray player.

 

[Dazza]

I was reading the Blu-ray.com forums yesterday and I learnt that UHD Blu-rays will potentially be laden with DRM.

Each disc requires a certificate to be downloaded to the player in order for the disc to actually work. Now apparently most early discs will have the certificate on disc so there won't be many issues with those, but the functionality is there for discs to require downloading these certificates from the internet.
Of course some details are a bit vague at the moment, but this poses a few questions. Is the disc shareable or sellable? What happens if the servers eventually go offline? Are you able to download a certificate whilst in a different country from where the disc originated? Etc.

Basically I no longer care about UHD. So therefore whether the PS4 can play them or bot is almost irrelevant to me.

Funnily I remember this exact same thing being proposed and said of DVD and Bluray respectively when they came out, neither transpired

 

[onQ123]

Funnily I remember this exact same thing being proposed and said of DVD and Bluray respectively when they came out, neither transpired

Must have been the Laser Disc warriors making up lies to scare people away from compact disc lol.

 

[herod]

You might be surprised, videophiles bought PS3s for Blu-Ray playback. Not only was it the cheapest Blu-Ray player, it was one of the best.

and eventually replaced them with superior fanless standalone models as the tech matured.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Each disc requires a certificate to be downloaded to the player in order for the disc to actually work.

Wow. What a shit. What a luck that nobody will buy these anyway.

 

[Theonik]

and eventually replaced them with superior fanless standalone models as the tech matured.

Which will happen much faster here since I'd wager these players will be affordable and widely available much faster. Besides, with how bad media playback media playback is on PS4 and how much of an afterthought it appears to be I doubt the PS4 will really compare favourably with early UHD players at all. It's not 2006 anymore.

 

[WolvenOne]

Been meaning to ask. Is there a better 4k HDMI standard in the works? I thought the current one maxed out a 30fps. That'd really wouldn't be acceptable for gaming.

 

[dr_rus]

Been meaning to ask. Is there a better 4k HDMI standard in the works? I thought the current one maxed out a 30fps. That'd really wouldn't be acceptable for gaming.

HDMI 2.0 support 4K with 60 fps and is already implement in a lot of equipment.

 

[OraleeWey]

Been meaning to ask. Is there a better 4k HDMI standard in the works? I thought the current one maxed out a 30fps. That'd really wouldn't be acceptable for gaming.

I'm assuming for PC? You'd have to use DVI or Displayport.

 

[zoobzone]

Been meaning to ask. Is there a better 4k HDMI standard in the works? I thought the current one maxed out a 30fps. That'd really wouldn't be acceptable for gaming.

HDMI 2.0 can do 4K 60fps. Not sure if there will be any problems with 4:4:4, HDR and HDCP2.2 all used at the same time though.

 

[Mindwipe]

HDMI 2.0 can do 4K 60fps. Not sure if there will be any problems with 4:4:4, HDR and HDCP2.2 all used at the same time though.

HDCP 2.2 doesn't make any difference to the bandwidth (though the memory controller needs to be faster on the port, so there are a few shitty 2014 sets that support HDMI 2.0 *or* HDCP 2.2 depending on the port but not on the same port...). However, 10 bit colour and HDR do, and yes, HDMI 2.0 isn't fast enough to do 4K HDR 10 bit colour at 60fps.

There's already a replacement standard in some of the TVs, HDMI 2.0a, that is fast enough to do that.

 

[dr_rus]

HDMI 2.0 isn't fast enough to do 4K HDR 10 bit colour at 60fps.

There's already a replacement standard in some of the TVs, HDMI 2.0a, that is fast enough to do that.

Speed has nothing to do with it. 2.0a just standardizes HDR spec, the bandwidth provided is the same as in 2.0.

 

[boredandlazy]

Funnily I remember this exact same thing being proposed and said of DVD and Bluray respectively when they came out, neither transpired

Well here's a thread discussing it:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=272153

That's all I've got.

 

[AmyS]

I'm not holding out any hope that PS4 will be able to play 4K / Ultra HD Blu ray.

 

[Theonik]

Well here's a thread discussing it:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=272153

That's all I've got.

I don't want to jump to conclusions until we see this in the wild, but to me this whole matter sounds like a complete deal breaker and puts me off the format entirely as a consumer if the details of the implementation here are accurate.

 

[jeff_rigby]

Speed has nothing to do with it. 2.0a just standardizes HDR spec, the bandwidth provided is the same as in 2.0.

Correct:

What is it about HDR (HDMI 2.0a) that requires the format extension?
There is additional metadata is that required to deliver the enhancements offered by HDR. HDMI 2.0a adds the ability for devices to be able to transmit/receive this metadata.

It's software changes following a spec provided the manufacturer allows for updates.

UHD IPTV can/will support HDR so it too needs HDMI 2.0a

 

[Lord_Balkan]

After reading through this thread, I think I might actually buy a PS4 as a media device. It will replace my region free blu-ray player and my amazon fire TV.

 

[BronsonLee]

After reading through this thread, I think I might actually buy a PS4 as a media device. It will replace my region free blu-ray player and my amazon fire TV.

It still doesn't have a real goddamn remote tho

 

[onQ123]

It still doesn't have a real goddamn remote tho

I think he is joking

 

[Lord_Balkan]

I think he is joking

I am actually not. The amazon fire TV has trouble playing a small portion of my uncompressed blu ray rips, and the UI / responsiveness on my blu-ray player is extremely slow. Not only that, but the UI rendering has screen tearing of all things. It really irks me. The streaming and internet connectivity (even if wired) on the smart blu-ray player is extremely poor as well. I've been scouting a device that could replace both those things and so far the PS4 has a lot of promise.

 

[onQ123]

I am actually not. The amazon fire TV has trouble playing a small portion of my uncompressed blu ray rips, and the UI / responsiveness on my blu-ray player is extremely slow. Not only that, but the UI rendering has screen tearing of all things. It really irks me. The streaming and internet connectivity (even if wired) on the smart blu-ray player is extremely poor as well. I've been scouting a device that could replace both those things and so far the PS4 has a lot of promise.

I thought it was a joke because of the region free blu-ray player.

Does PS4 play region free Blu-rays?


but then again you can just rip them to a hard drive.

 

[Lord_Balkan]

I thought it was a joke because of the region free blu-ray player.

Does PS4 play region free Blu-rays?


but then again you can just rip them to a hard drive.

So that is the interesting thing. Officially it is not a region free blu ray player. Though, I tested some Region B movies I have on a friend's PS4 and they work just fine. Though DVDs from other region's don't work.

 

[onQ123]

So that is the interesting thing. Officially it is not a region free blu ray player. Though, I tested some Region B movies I have on a friend's PS4 and they work just fine. Though DVDs from other region's don't work.

OK.

 

[DangerMouse]

It still doesn't have a real goddamn remote tho

Actually it does now, since last October, the official PDP one is almost exactly like the Sony one for the PS3. It's the PlayStation 4 Universal Media Remote.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Actually it does now, since last October, the official PDP one is almost exactly like the Sony one for the PS3. It's the PlayStation 4 Universal Media Remote.

Still its shitty to use. It acts like a controler, turns of after x minutes. The PS3 remotes were far superior.

 

[jobrro]

I thought it was a joke because of the region free blu-ray player.

Does PS4 play region free Blu-rays?


but then again you can just rip them to a hard drive.

Blu-ray is a little different to DVD. I think most or all DVDs were encoded to a region, but many publishers have been very relaxed with region encoding on Blu-ray. For instance I know almost any discs published by Warner Bros. will be region free, most new Disney releases are region free, while some other publishers like Fox often do enforce region protection. If a Blu-ray disc isn't region locked it will play in any Blu-ray player from around the world, though sometimes TV content or extras (e.g. from BBC) can be in 50hz which can cause some issues on 60hz only players. So while the PS4 isn't region free, since many Blu-ray titles don't have region locking it will still play them from other regions. If the disc is locked to a different region, the PS4 will not play it.

 

[boredandlazy]

If you're into anime about 75% of stuff is region locked. Mainly because the Japanese are so worried about reverse importation.

 

[jeff_rigby]

It still doesn't have a real goddamn remote tho

One was released for the PS4 by a third party. Edit: Sony Plans are for voice and gesture control and control from second screen; (Phones and Tablets) Voice, Gesture and touch screen. So the third party "traditional" remote is for those who are kinda rigid and don't want to keep up with the times.

ooVoo's software stack is part of this as support for ooVoo features includes allot of openVX. It's a Global "GIVE" HTML5 <video> initiative where HTML5 has W3C extensions to support second screen, voice and gesture control as well as Real Time Chat (ooVoo, Skype etc.).

From 2010, Towards Video on the Web with HTML5 as well as the CES article on "GIVE" spell this out.

2007 Sony sent a PS3 developer kit to Collabora which had just integrated HTML5 <video> into GTKwebkit bound to Cairo. 2010 Sony firmware updated the PS3 to support a GTK API webkit Javascript engine , 2011 announced they wold be using Playready, 2012 the full webkit and 2014 a job posting to integrate Playready into the PS3, PS4 gets the same treatment and is why it has a Web UI and supports Playready also.

 

[Adam Tyner]

Plans are for voice and gesture control and control from second screen; (Phones and Tablets) Voice, Gesture and touch screen. So the third party "traditional" remote is for those who are kinda rigid and don't want to keep up with the times.

Heaving a predictable, jeff_rigby-inspired sigh.

First of all, the PS4 has supported HDMI-CEC since day one. The idea is that whatever remote controls the device the PS4 is plugged into can also control the PS4.

Second, your assertion doesn't even make any sense. How can someone be "rigid" about input controls that aren't even an option more than two years after launch? Hey, man, get with the times and use these features that don't exist!

 

[jeff_rigby]

Heaving a predictable, jeff_rigby-inspired sigh.

First of all, the PS4 has supported HDMI-CEC since day one. The idea is that whatever remote controls the device the PS4 is plugged into can also control the PS4.

Second, your assertion doesn't even make any sense. How can someone be "rigid" about input controls that aren't even an option more than two years after launch? Hey, man, get with the times and use these features that don't exist!

Unfortunately the remote some of us are using is a Cable TV remote that doesn't allow us to CEC control the TV, Receiver or PS4 beyond volume. HDMI-CEC depends on the TV supporting HDMI-CEC and only recently has this been in more than a few TVs as a standard feature. Same with ARC and Smart TVs.

In an ideal world every TV would have CEC and everyone would have a Smart TV that is ATSC 2 and Vidipath enabled with a Camera for gesture and Skype. Since they don't, in the near future the XB1 and PS4 can be attached to the dumb 1080P TV and the combination will be ATSC 2, Vidipath, DVR and eventually ATSC 3 enabled. If you notice the PS4 has Second screen support, voice and eventually will have gesture control, same for the XB1. In an ideal world the Smart TV is ARC connected to the Home receiver and ARC relies on CEC to tell the TV to use the Receiver and to pass volume control from the TV through the CEC to the receiver. Vidipath is designed to control the Cable box DVR and to also control other platforms connected to the HDMI or the home network with the same voice, gesture or second screen. If you have used any DLNA clients on a Android tablet or phone, control of the volume is also part of DLNA.

In the near future I will stand by my statement. Today, you are correct. My post was meant to reflect why Sony isn't providing a Remote.

Are you arguing that Voice, Gesture and second screen support aren't coming for Media because the console is two years old and they are only used for Game and UI. You do know that the features we are seeing for games are planned for media down to sharing a movie (even commercial) during chat.

 

[Adam Tyner]

and eventually will have gesture control, same for the XB1.

The Xbox One dropped gesture controls (at least on the dashboard) a couple months ago because no one used them.

 

[YianGaruga]

lol @ PS4 will get gesture controls

that's funny

 

[onQ123]

lol @ PS4 will get gesture controls

that's funny

Why is it funny?

 

[YianGaruga]

Why is it funny?

I'm sure Microsoft also thought the idea was great at some point

 

[jeff_rigby]

The Xbox One dropped gesture controls (at least on the dashboard) a couple months ago because no one used them.

Didn't know that. Could they reintroduce gesture controls when Windows 10 in all in one Computers and tablets make it more acceptable? Do you know that AMD has had ARM gesture control middle ware in all their APUs since day one (about 2010)?


Controlling a TV with hand gestures

 

[onQ123]

I'm sure Microsoft also thought the idea was great at some point

It is a great idea just not worth over $100 & 10% of GPU time & memory when your console is already weaker than your competition.


PS4 on the other hand has a camera that can be picked up for $39 & should be even cheaper in the next few years & also come with a free headset that people can use for voice control.

Best of all it's not all on Sony to create the software because this is where the industry is headed, from media players to cars will all be using stereo vision & voice control.

 

[YianGaruga]

It is a great idea just not worth over $100 & 10% of GPU time & memory when your console is already weaker than your competition.


PS4 on the other hand has a camera that can be picked up for $39 & should be even cheaper in the next few years & also come with a free headset that people can use for voice control.

Best of all it's not all on Sony to create the software because this is where the industry is headed, from media players to cars will all be using stereo vision & voice control.

Every Xbox One came with a Kinect at the start and still no one used the feature. I don't see why the PS4 audience would be more receptive.

What makes the idea so great if no one wants to use it?

 

[jeff_rigby]

Every Xbox One came with a Kinect at the start and still no one used the feature. I don't see why the PS4 audience would be more receptive.

What makes the idea so great if no one wants to use it?

All audiences will be more receptive when it's used by all products. The XB1 has a better camera with IR for home lighting conditions. It, I think, has just as much or more Xtensa DPU processing power for vision but likely OpenCL (CPU & GPGPU is now being used rather than OpenVX on Xtensa DPUs. Sony and Microsoft will eventually provide ARM APIs that offload this vision processing to the Xtensa processors.

Page 7 Implementers may choose to use OpenCL or Compute Shaders to implement OpenVX nodes on programmable processors And then use OpenVX to enable a developer to easily connect those nodes into a graph.

 

[onQ123]

Every Xbox One came with a Kinect at the start and still no one used the feature. I don't see why the PS4 audience would be more receptive.

Voice & gesture controls will be more common in the next few years than they was in 2013 -2014 & also PS4 camera is smaller & less of an eyesore than Kinect 2.0.

Voice commands will be the main feature for searching media but Kinect 2.0 alone cost more than the media boxes that people will be using in their living room.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Actually it does now, since last October, the official PDP one is almost exactly like the Sony one for the PS3. It's the PlayStation 4 Universal Media Remote.

That thing is complete garbage.

 

[ZOONAMI]

I think they'll do a slim revision with 4k Blu-ray support. I'm pretty sure the November revision does not have hdmi 2.0 as stated in op. That links to a German page talking about IFA 2013.

 

[YianGaruga]

All audiences will be more receptive when it's used by all products. The XB1 has a better camera with IR for home lighting conditions. It, I think, has just as much or more Xtensa DPU processing power for vision but likely OpenCL (CPU & GPGPU is now being used rather than OpenVX on Xtensa DPUs. Sony and Microsoft will eventually provide ARM APIs that offload this vision processing to the Xtensa processors.

Voice & gesture controls will be more common in the next few years than they was in 2013 -2014 & also PS4 camera is smaller & less of an eyesore than Kinect 2.0.

Voice commands will be the main feature for searching media but Kinect 2.0 alone cost more than the media boxes that people will be using in their living room.

You both seem to be under the impression that just because a technology exists it will be widely adopted and successful.

But I guess that's what jeff_rigby threads are all about

 

[onQ123]

You both seem to be under the impression that just because a technology exists it will be widely adapted and successful.

But I guess that's what jeff_rigby threads are all about

Kids know their way around tablets & phones at 1 years old now & a lot of these media apps let you use your phone/tablet to navigate through the media for playback on your TV. that might not be natural to you but for this generation coming up it's a lot easier than using a old TV remote to navigate through new media apps. voice controls will be the same way as time go by it will just be the natural way that people navigate through media.

 

[YianGaruga]

Kids know their way around tablets & phones at 1 years old now & a lot of these media apps let you use your phone/tablet to navigate through the media for playback on your TV. that might not be natural to you but for this generation coming up it's a lot easier than using a old TV remote to navigate through new media apps. voice controls will be the same way as time go by it will just be the natural way that people navigate through media.

what do second screen touch controls have to do with gesture controls?

 

[teiresias]

Honestly, I couldn't give less of a crap about potential gesture controls that have yet to materialize, when I have a Harmony ONE remote that I've owned for nearly six years or more that works fine with my PS3 but can do crap-all to control my PS4.

Rigid my ass, get with the damn ball game Sony. The more you make the PS4 harder to control with the remote I control EVERY OTHER PIECE OF HARDWARE in my media center with just means I use it less and less.

 

[onQ123]

what do second screen touch controls have to do with gesture controls?

We was talking about the fact that PS4 don't have an official remote.