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[conman]

You're looking for privilege where there's none. The "write what you know" is one of the very first advices any writer gets and it's a good one. It's simply easier to understand and develop character you share a lot with. That is white male when the writer is white male, but the very same rule applies to woman writting a famel lead or black writer picking black person as his narrator.

"Writing what you know" is not the same as simply defaulting to what you know. A good writer always should be able to justify her/his choices about a character. Sometimes that justification comes after something's been written, sometimes before. But a writer who can't justify those decisions isn't a writer, they're a hack.

Whoa there. Can it really be a privilege if everyone enjoys it? Females tend to write female characters, minorities tend to write minority characters, teenagers tend to write teenage characters, etc. It's a basic tendency that is reflected in every culture throughout history.

Again, I have no problem at all with white folks writing white characters, or black folks writing black characters, etc. But if those writers can't account for those choices within the work itself, then they should take a good, long, hard look in the mirror and think about where those choices are coming from. If a character's traits (whatever they might be) are irrelevant or interchangeable, then they're not necessary in the first place. Because games are (mostly) a visual medium, race and gender are more obvious than other character traits, so game designers and writers need to be deliberate in those choices. I mean, just think of the amount of time spent during development just looking at those faces and bodies over and over and over again. The visual appearance of those characters is carefully crafted and regularly cultivated. I have a very hard time accepting that those choices are ever really just incidental.

The demographics of the games industry does not reflect the demographics of game players. If those in the games industry only make games with characters who look like themselves, then we're stuck in an ugly situation (as we currently are) where women and ethnic minorities are asked to participate in a politics of representation that not only does not reflect us, but also often reminds us in subtle (or unsubtle) ways of where we stand in the social hierarchy.

 

[KnuckaWut]

it's not about skin color or whatever, it's about sales.

A casual black gamer is more likely to buy a good game with a white main character, compared to the casual white gamer buying a good game with a black main character.

GTA: San Andreas being the one exception.

 

[Masquerader]

Joseph Capelli, Resistance 3.

Dishonorably discharged from the SPRA for the death of Nathan Hale at the end of Resistance 2, Joseph Capelli found himself in a precarious position at the beginning of Resistance 3. His motivation for fighting across country to stop the Chimera provided for some of the most underrated narrative moments in an FPS last gen. The farewell radio broadcast to his wife and son provided for the perfect lull in time before the climax of the trilogy.

Insomniac deserved better.

Oh, yes indeed. Very, VERY underrated, I agree. Seriously, why was Resistance 3 the least popular of the trio?

 

[Haeralis The BRave]

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

No joke. Anyone who tries to tell me that "Latino/Hispanic" is an ethnicity and not a race has never been in the situation of being Latino and having to fill out a race/ethnicity form (in the US). Having filled out those forms my whole life, they've only gotten more confusing with time (I'm a light-skinned Chicano).

It's definitely not as easy as saying that Latino/Hispanic is "only ever an ethnicity." Race and ethnicity are both social constructs anyway with negligible biological/genetic support, so it's all the same thing--just with slightly different political implications.

As a whit-ish mexican, usually filling the form with "Hispanic" easy the confusion a bit. For some reason Latino is often associated with brown/dark skin ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

Thing is for me, the other 2/3 are German and French, and most people who see me think I'm Irish because I have red hair and I'm paler than Bill Clinton in shorts.

My family can trace back at least one Indian and one black ex-slave in my ancestry, there's a Scott in there somewhere too, and there's always a possibility of North African/Moorish blood on the Canary Island side.

Bottom line though is that I live in the South and my skin lets me drive around BFE in Mississippi and Louisiana without having to give a second thought to what reaction my presence may draw from the locals. I dunno if that means I'm being racist against myself or what at this point.

 

[Harlequin]

White males done right is kind of a non-sensical question to me because I don't really see what specific thing should be "done right" when it comes to a white male character (just like I wouldn't see what should specifically be "done right" about a male character of a different race. They should all be well-characterised and non-stereotypical), so I'll just answer what I consider to be male characters done right. In that context I'll try to list male characters who I believe are either very authentic characters or in some way break or work against traditional gender/video game stereotypes and aren't clichéd macho men. I'll also only list playable/main characters and, obviously, there'll be quite a few characters who should be on this list but aren't because I simply haven't played the games they're featured in/don't know of their existence.

• First we have the male main characters in Heavy Rain. Norman Jayden and Ethan Mars in particular. They were male characters who were shown in moments of great weakness and felt more like ordinary, flawed persons rather than inapproachable heroes.
• Then there's Altair from the first Assassin's Creed. Sure, he may have been a bit of a macho but I liked how the game treated him. He failed as a result of his inflated self-confidence and had to learn to listen to other people and accept that he wasn't the best or greatest.

 

[conman]

Thing is for me, the other 2/3 are German and French, and most people who see me think I'm Irish because I have red hair and I'm paler than Bill Clinton in shorts.

My family can trace back at least one Indian and one black ex-slave in my ancestry, there's a Scott in there somewhere too, and there's always a possibility of North African/Moorish blood on the Canary Island side.

Bottom line though is that I live in the South and my skin lets me drive around BFE in Mississippi and Louisiana without having to give a second thought to what reaction my presence may draw from the locals. I dunno if that means I'm being racist against myself or what at this point.

Ha. Sounds familiar. I look "vaguely ethnic" to most people, so most always assume I'm from the Mediterranean somewhere. At this point, I'm convinced that "race" is a category reserved for the most obvious visual categories, and "ethnicity" for everything in-between.

 

[User 73706]

Yes, but at the same time I think writer being white is enough justification for making a white lead though.

You're looking for privilege where there's none. The "write what you know" is one of the very first advices any writer gets and it's a good one. It's simply easier to understand and develop character you share a lot with. That is white male when the writer is white male, but the very same rule applies to woman writting a famel lead or black writer picking black person as his narrator.

The "it was easier for me and thus resulted with better written character" is good enough justification.

And these are specifically pointed out in the OP as something that shouldn't "excuse" a character within the confines of this thread's discussion.

Kane and Lynch's whiteness feels central to the aesthetic and atmosphere of Kane and Lynch 2. They're a couple of entitled, violent, psychopathic foreigners in Shanghai bullheadedly trying to get what they think they deserve, constantly blundering into bigger and bigger trouble by virtue of their ignorance. They're culturally alien from most of the people they're shooting at, one of the many things that builds the game's sense of numbing, ceaseless, and bleak violence.

See, this is a great example.

Probably because there's been so many threads lately about "black men in games" and stuff like that, and OP felt left out.

Come on, now. Did you read the OP?

 

[Freeman]

it's not about skin color or whatever, it's about sales.

A casual black gamer is more likely to buy a good game with a white main character, compared to the casual white gamer buying a good game with a black main character.

GTA: San Andreas being the one exception.

"Lets exclude the games with a black protagonist that were extremely successful (GTA SA, GTAV and Walking Dead) and assume that flops like the 50 Cent, Prototype or Starhawk happened because the protagonist were black."

The same happens when it comes to female, we have Tomb Raider, RE, StarCraft, Portal, Metroid, Mirror's Edge, etc, all very successful but all the attention goes to titles like Remember Me as if they all flopped. We have countless flops with male protagonists.

I never played a game with a multiracial Brazilian protagonist, I wouldn't value it anymore because of that, I gain nothing out of it alone. I can relate just as well with a young girl, an old black guy or a bald marine, as long as they are well realized. Writers should right what they are comfortable/capable of writing.

In the end people see what they want to see and the publishers/devs do exact the same. Is the TLoU less appealing because of Ellie? Who is responsible for more sale of Bioshock Infinite, Booker DeWitt or Elizabeth?

 

[flatearthpandas]

Again, I have no problem at all with white folks writing white characters, or black folks writing black characters, etc. But if those writers can't account for those choices within the work itself, then they should take a good, long, hard look in the mirror and think about where those choices are coming from. If a character's traits (whatever they might be) are irrelevant or interchangeable, then they're not necessary in the first place. And because games are (mostly) a visual medium, race and gender are more visible than other character traits.

The demographics of the games industry does not reflect the demographics of game players. If those in the games industry only make games with characters who look like themselves, then we're stuck in an ugly situation (as we currently are) where women and ethnic minorities are asked to participate in a politics of representation that not only does not reflect us, but also often reminds us in subtle (or unsubtle) ways of where we stand in the social hierarchy.

However the characters are justified and whether that is suitable to your scrutiny, the pattern holds throughout history. Perhaps most writers are just hacks, but I don't know that I agree with that assessment. There are plenty of stories which are able to be successfully adapted between cultures, and those adaptions unsurprisingly come with a change of race (and sometimes gender) of all the key players. Why? Because ultimately those characteristics—not the characters—were unimportant to the narrative and could be changed without significant impact.

Regardless of demographic, writers do tend to default to their own gender and race. We can debate whether they ought to, but not whether they do. It isn't because they are racists, it is because the majority of all writers regardless of gender or nationality tend to do this.

As the demographic shifts, unless there is actual institutional racism in the industry, that demographic shift will eventually be reflected in the increase of those minorities following their interests by entering the industry and eventually finding places of influence to increase minority representation by the same default tendencies, not to mention the incentive that will exist to better represent themselves.

 

[gugeifer]

Main hero of Bulletstorm. The guy has character, guilt, hate, fun and everything combined is awesome.

 

[gutter_trash]

Italians aren't Latino.

in the terms of linguistics, yes they are in Europe

 

[Wiktor]

"Writing what you know" is not the same as simply defaulting to what you know. A good writer always should be able to justify her/his choices about a character. Sometimes that justification comes after something's been written, sometimes before. But a writer who can't justify those decisions isn't a writer, they're a hack.
.

Sure, I just think the justification doesn't need to be in the work itself, but in writer's own knowledge. If you think that picking a male white character by white male writer on the basis of him being most knowledgable about this race/gender makes him a hack, then a historician writing historical fiction because he knows a lot about history is a hack too. And I just can't agree with this kind of thinking.

 

[Lime]

Does it mean that the Whiteness of the character is in play and/or is treated within the story, or are you just asking for proposals for a decent/quality-written character who happens to be White?

 

[Wiktor]

Using the clarification on OP's part, aside from Jason Brody I would say that the heroes of Mafia series, ie Thomas Angelo and Vittorio Scaletta, are good examples. Both have nicely developed personalities and their descent from good guys to villains is well explained. Also, no other race or gender would work in a story about prohibition era member of italian mob.

 

[KingV]

IMF Auto-Pistol Guy. Titanfall

 

[J10]

In regards to the whole "write what you know" bullshit: get to know some people not like you. Blacks, women, gays, atheists, Muslims - they walk among you, they're everywhere. Talk to them. Add them to the things that you know. Problem solved.

 

[Silky]

After a couple of threads discussing (not asking for a single right answer, mind you) the prevalence of the hetereonormative - the cishet, straight white male, usually buzzcut and militaristic - protagonists in gaming, I thought it'd be worthwhile to make a thread dedicated to protagonists that meet that description who are justified in being that way.

'

Using your GTA example I could argue that Marcus Fenix of the Gears of War series matches your description pretty easily, considering his companions (Cole, the loud mouthed rampage loving berserker (chaotic good) Dom's reserved, hearth-like presence within the group during the game being a family man/father type (lawful good.), and Baird's crass, cold and calcualtive nature. (True Neutral.)) don't exactly fit the hetereonormative definition.

 

[HeelPower]

Dunno why "white guy" TBH but I'd say Joel from TLOU seems pretty grounded and reacts in a way that a normal guy might act.

He isn't an a-typical square jawed idiot. Yes he is violent but the world he lives in has made him that way. He get's hurt, has feelings (repressed ones) and shows a sensitive side once in a while also he doesn't seem racist or sexist at all.

Joel's a shitty/twisted dude for sure but that doesn't stop him from being a great character.

 

[Korten]

Yeah, I'd say Link's just as white as Master Chief is. They're not genetically Caucasian per se, but they're not not Caucasian either.

Eh.

http://www.halopedia.org/images/2/2b/Spartan_candidate_John-117.png

If you look at Master Chief as a child, he is Caucasian. Halo, even in the novels, never really got into the whole "It's the future and therefore most races are mixed." Since most people in the novels and games appear to be the same races that are known today.

 

[User 73706]

'

Using your GTA example I could argue that Marcus Fenix of the Gears of War series matches your description pretty easily, considering his companions (Cole, the loud mouthed rampage loving berserker (chaotic good) Dom's reserved, hearth-like presence within the group during the game being a family man/father type (lawful good.), and Baird's crass, cold and calcualtive nature. (True Neutral.)) don't exactly fit the hetereonormative definition.

I don't know enough about the Gears franchise to contest that, so you're not necessarily wrong. It's just that (as far as I know) Marcus Fenix's "balanced" side is usually masked by bullets, hellbeast shrieks and chansaw whirs.

Eh.

http://www.halopedia.org/images/2/2b/Spartan_candidate_John-117.png

If you look at Master Chief as a child, he is Caucasian. Halo, even in the novels, never really got into the whole "It's the future and therefore most races are mixed." Since most people in the novels and games appear to be the same races that are known today.

Halo Reach touches on this a little more and you've got Jorge who amounts to Space Hungarian, Jun who's ambiguously Space Eastern, etc. The reason this might not always feel like it's at the forefront is that the most obviously non-white, human mainline Halo character is Sergeant Johnson, who actually is African-American, hailing from Chicago.

 

[flatearthpandas]

In regards to the whole "write what you know" bullshit: get to know some people not like you. Blacks, women, gays, atheists, Muslims - they walk among you, they're everywhere. Talk to them. Add them to the things that you know. Problem solved.

I really hope you're aware that there is a level of intimacy beyond your day-to-day interactions necessary before you're in any way capable of representing someone different from you. The less intimate and more superficial your knowledge is, the more likely you are to present stereotypes or just inaccurately represent things that would be obvious to people of that culture but not necessarily someone outside of it.

There's a quote from Clone High that I think highlights this excellently: "Girls, girls, girls! You're both human beings. You both put your bras on one leg at a time."

It's silly, yes, but when I sat down to write a female main character a few years ago I suddenly found myself with a ton of awkward questions for friends, girlfriend, family, internet, etc. Most of which were for mundane things that I just didn't know, despite growing up in a family of mostly women. When you're creating a character, there's probably value in asking: how much extra research do I want to do to make a believable character of arbitrary gender/race?

 

[Wiktor]

In regards to the whole "write what you know" bullshit: get to know some people not like you. Blacks, women, gays, atheists, Muslims - they walk among you, they're everywhere. Talk to them. Add them to the things that you know. Problem solved.

Right, a couple little talks will replace 30-40 years of experience. Just how shallow do you think those people are?
But jokes aside.. I do get your general point, but those people and experiences doesn't mean you have to abandon the homecourt advantage. It doesn't mean you can't either. I just think there's nothing bad in writting a white male lead because you understand this gender and race the most. Especially since you might not always be interested in exploring specific traits and just need a believable hero to carry the story. And it's not like everything else you know about other people will go to waste, because you're likely going to use it to built other characters in the story.

Especially with writers early in their career, they already have enough trouble keeping everything else about the story working to add burden of writting lead completely different from themselves. It simply takes a lot more skill than creating somebody like yourself and there's a reason why for example most novelists wait with that till they have more books out before they attempt that.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Right, a couple little talks will replace 30-40 years of experience. Just how shallow do you think those people are?
But jokes aside.. I do get your general point, but those people and experiences doesn't mean you have to abandon the homecourt advantage. It doesn't mean you can't either. I just think there's nothing bad in writting a white male lead because you understand this gender and race the most. Especially since you might not always be interested in exploring specific traits and just need a believable hero to carry the story. And it's not like everything else you know about other people will go to waste, because you're likely going to use it to built other characters in the story.

Especially with writers early in their career, they already have enough trouble keeping everything else about the story working to add burden of writting lead completely different from themselves. It simply takes a lot more skill than creating somebody like yourself and there's a reason why for example most novelists wait with that till they have more books out before they attempt that.

Just because it's understandable for people to so heavily rely on what they know — early on in their writing career or otherwise — it doesn't make that an adequate excuse.

 

[APF]

just think there's nothing bad in writting a white male lead because you understand this gender and race the most.

So how does this idea translate into characterizations, vs just an aphorism? What are some good examples of things white people know the most about when it comes to depicting white characters in games?

 

[Serpens007]

Commercially speaking, we're still living in a racist era. White male, short haired, good looking, like Nathan Drake or others, are closer to an easier way to market the game to a larger audience. Even at a subconscious level.

So yeah, there are still a lot of characters that just are white without needing it to be. It's not bad, but it would be cool if there is more variety.

I'm also having a hard time finding good characters with long hair, that are not from a japanese game or blond.

 

[akidnamededdy]

Just because it's understandable for people to about heavily rely on what they know — early on in their writing career or otherwise — it doesn't make that an adequate excuse.

Why should there have to be an excuse? I mean if a white author is writing a book about rice farmers in Vietnam and their main character is white, yeah that's the kind of thing that probably needs justification in the story. If Joe Schmoe from Utah writes a book about a Mormon kid growing up in Salt Lake City, are people really gonna take him to task for making the main character white?

Some of the best books, movies, and poetry ever were written by people writing about what they know. There's nothing inherently lazy about it.

 

[Coriolanus]

Dunno why "white guy" TBH but I'd say Joel from TLOU seems pretty grounded and reacts in a way that a normal guy might act.

He isn't an a-typical square jawed idiot. Yes he is violent but the world he lives in has made him that way. He get's hurt, has feelings (repressed ones) and shows a sensitive side once in a while also he doesn't seem racist or sexist at all.

There is more to it, though. The really well done bits about Joel are the indirect info you get on him. Namely, how phil and his brother react to his presence, and both are *very* wary of him. His brother's behaviour was particularly well done because he's the point when the game flagrantly tells you that it acknowledges Joel as

Spoiler

pretty much a mass murdering monster.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Isn't Nathan Drake Colombian?

 

[Tigress]

Isn't that a bit racist though? because it implies that a white character can't be "done right" if there's not some exclusive white struggle he has to go through, like the only thing that really matters about those people is their race.

It's not assuming anything. It's just asking for examples of where a white male character fit the story best. That doesn't mean he has to have some white struggle.

It could mean for example Wolfenstein's character. For nothing else than he's always been white, it's traditional, and I would say yes, it would change the game to change that cause part of the charm is the tradition (for Wolfenstein that's actually part of the game really). You have always played that character, it would drastically change things to change the character's characteristics or even just play a different character.

Also, some one had a really good example in Trevor from GTA V. He's written to be "white trash/redneck meth head" so to speak. And GTA is a game that plays heavily on tropes/stereotypes. It would change the character to have him not be white.

 

[TheRook]

These guys did it right imo.
Travis Touchdown from No more Heros

Gene from God Hand

Brad Hawk from Urban Reign

Cody from Final Fight/Street Fighter series

 

[APF]

Why should there have to be an excuse? I mean if a white author is writing a book about rice farmers in Vietnam and their main character is white, yeah that's the kind of thing that probably needs justification in the story. If Joe Schmoe from Utah writes a book about a Mormon kid growing up in Salt Lake City, are people really gonna take him to task for making the main character white?

But in this case isn't his race part of the characterization of being the bolded? It's not simply something that's there because the writer is white, it's actually part of the characterization. If the race were changed the character would have to be different. That's kind of the point of the thread, to point out instances where the character isn't white just because that's the normative choice, but rather because that's part of the character itself.

 

[ishibear]

I don't see what's so hard to understand.

Think of a white male character that fits into the game and role he was given because no one else could possibly replace him. He's that important for the story.

Example: Take RE4 for example. As much as I like Leon, if Luis had been the protagonist, it would have been more fitting. The entire setting is in a country full of Spanish speakers but we're sending in an American? Luis actually is Spanish. It makes more sense to send in someone to save Ashley who actually understands the language, doesn't it?

However, Luis doesn't fit this topic because he wasn't the main character, but the fact that Leon could have easily been replaced by him is a sign that Leon isn't a fitting white protagonist either (he could be easily replaced by anyone and nothing would change).

Had Luis been the main, he would be a great character for this thread. But unfortunately, he wasn't.

The goal is to find main white characters that are appropriate for their game and can't have their role replaced by just anyone.

An example would be if there was a game about a story of Vikings. I believe that would leave you with the possibility of a main character who is of Western European origin and therefore, not so easily replaced by any other ethnicity (or gender due to the customs).

 

[BobbyRobby]

I'd much rather minorities get into writing than have white people try to write for them.

There should be a bigger push for that instead of forcing people to write out of their element.

 

[Harlequin]

Isn't Nathan Drake Colombian?

We know he spent at least a part of his childhood there but that doesn't mean it's his nationality (or that his parents were Colombian). Even then, 37% of the Colombian population is white (according to Wikipedia).

 

[Neff]

The handsome, athletically-built but not ultra buff*, ones with polygonally-complex, nice-looking hair.

Spoiler

Chris Redfield doesn't count*

 

[Dennis]

... Link?

Looks pretty white to me anyways, and it works well in a vanilla fantasy kind of way...

What I love most about being White is my pointy ears.

 

[Phades]

The handsome, athletically-built but not ultra buff*, ones with polygonally-complex, nice-looking hair.

Spoiler

Chris Redfield doesn't count*

What about those with global saturation desires?

 

[ishibear]

I'd much rather minorities get into writing than have white people try to write for them.

There should be a bigger push for that instead of forcing people to write out of their element.

Or, or... get this...

People make characters not focusing solely on that person's race.

Average black, hispanic, asian, etc person fighting in war, going to school, and killing zombies.

What is so hard about that? Are people expecting they have to have every black character act thuggish or ghetto? Or every Asian has to know math or martial arts?

Is it so hard to have minorities in games just act... normal? FFS, it's not that hard.

 

[timetokill]

I know a lot of people are just posting their favorite characters, but Joel and Nathan Drake are examples of "bad" white characters as far as the OP is concerned. You could change their race and literally nothing would change. Their whiteness is not a product of the needs of the story.

Anyway, I think that's the point of the OP, that minorities often have to justify their ethnicity/minority-ness in a way that white protagonists don't. People posting Joel and Nathan Drake are kind of proving that point. When you sit down and think about it, you realize that there really aren't that many characters that have to be white for any reason other than sales potential.

John Marston and Professor Layton from the OP is a great example, and one I was going to use until I got to it in the OP itself.

 

[ShinMaruku]

He's a hylian, does it count?

Hylians are humans. They just can hear the gods different from other Humans.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Why should there have to be an excuse?

Ask the guy using it as an excuse.

Some of the best books, movies, and poetry ever were written by people writing about what they know. There's nothing inherently lazy about it.

Saying it's not a good excuse isn't the same as saying it's lazy.

 

[ishibear]

I know a lot of people are just posting their favorite characters, but Joel and Nathan Drake are examples of "bad" white characters as far as the OP is concerned. You could change their race and literally nothing would change. Their whiteness is not a product of the needs of the story.

Anyway, I think that's the point of the OP, that minorities often have to justify their ethnicity/minority-ness in a way that white protagonists don't. People posting Joel and Nathan Drake are kind of proving that point. When you sit down and think about it, you realize that there really aren't that many characters that have to be white for any reason other than sales potential. It's pretty funny when you add that to conversations about how artistic The Last of Us is. But I digress.

John Marston and Professor Layton from the OP is a great example, and one I was going to use until I got to it in the OP itself.

+1

So for people saying that "it's hard to write characters that are minorities", what exactly makes them so hard to write?

Minorities skin color somehow makes them difficult? HOW?

 

[Cocaloch]

"Spaniard" is a nationality (a person from Spain), not an ethnicity--though many cultural nationalists of the European far right would disagree. So there are of course people of African descent who are Spaniards and so on.

I think you need to show some evidence for that claim. Most people I know would accept that Spanish is both an nationality and ethnicity. Unless you want to make a distinction between Spanish and Castilian which makes everything much more complicated but not in a way that seems very helpful to your argument.

 

[DarkKyo]

What I love most about being White is my pointy ears.

Are you trying to tell me there are no dark/black-skinned characters in fiction who have pointy ears?

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I always kind of laugh at this new-found notion of white characters being 'generic'. Like, moving a character's skin slider would automatically make them interesting.

For example, Ezio, white but charismatic and interesting. Connor, Native American but bland as fuck. Characters are interesting based on how well they are written, not their skin colour lol.

This so much.

 

[J10]

+1

So for people saying that "it's hard to write characters that are minorities", what exactly makes them so hard to write?

Minorities skin color somehow makes them difficult? HOW?

It's bullshit. I've never met a person I had zero things in common with. We all pay taxes, go to school, have jobs, have hobbies, families, relationships, etc. Yet when you ask for a not-white not-male character everybody's a fucking alien all of a sudden.

 

[Tigress]

I'd much rather minorities get into writing than have white people try to write for them.

There should be a bigger push for that instead of forcing people to write out of their element.

That's a good point. But I would say just cause some one is not of a certain ethnicity or gender doesn't mean they cannot write that ethnicity/gender well. One of my favorite authors is male and I swear he is very good at writing female characters (at least from my perspective as a female). The biggest thing is it takes the writer being able to have empathy and a chance to talk to many people of a different ethnicity and/or gender to hear their experiences in life.

Really, a good author doesn't have to be the same as the characters he/she writes, he/she has to be willing to do the research on what he/she is writing (even when writing fiction). I know that's how a lot of the really good science fiction and fantasy authors operate, they don't just come up with stuff out of the top of their head just cause they are writing very fictional stuff.

 

[ishibear]

It's bullshit. I've never met a person I had zero things in common with. We all pay taxes, go to school, have jobs, have hobbies, families, relationships, etc. Yet when you ask for a not-white not-male character everybody's a fucking alien all of a sudden.

Exactly! People thinking that we can't see through this garbage 'excuse' aren't fooling anyone.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Ask the guy using it as an excuse.


Saying it's not a good excuse isn't the same as saying it's lazy.

An excuse implies there's something to be excused. There are reasons that writers of all race, creeds, and genders primarily write people that are like themselves.

So for people saying that "it's hard to write characters that are minorities", what exactly makes them so hard to write?

Minorities skin color somehow makes them difficult? HOW?

Use your imagination.
No, really.

Imagination doesn't give you any answers when you're trying to write about a real type of person that you're not intimately familiar with; it gives you a bunch of questions that you will realize you have to research to get the answers to.

A minority is more than a skin tone. There is culture and history. The less culture and history you are able to include, the more you are just reskinning or regendering a white male. Not what I consider representation.

A good author isn't interested in swapping the skin color on Joe Homebody and patting himself on the back for writing an authentic Indian-American. And if the race has absolutely no bearing on the story, a good author probably has better things to do than research Indian-Americans for no good reason. Go with what you know and tell the story you're actually interested in telling.