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[wildfire]

Oh Rachel

You weren't the only one who thought that.

Damn.


Felix look at the end of the episode was clearly saying "I'm going to hell."


My only disappointment is that as great of an actress Maslaney has been she hasn't been able to sell herself as a man.

When I first saw Tony I was wondering if they were literally going with this is a man route but they revealed he's a transexual so it made me a bit more comfortable with her performance (even though I found that reveal to be disappointing for not setting Tony up as always a man from the beginning).

Still it bugged me so I decided to find some videos from actual trans and I have to say she really needs to reevaluate what she is doing. As capable of an actress she is she can do a lot better since existing transsexuals can pull it off.

 

[Blader]

I hope Tony doesn't become a recurring character, he's by far the least convincing clone.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

So....Tony.

I expect it sounded like a good idea on paper, but the execution is just terrible. Please don't bring him back.

Fantastic episode apart from whenever Tony was on screen. Alison attackinn Donnie in bed was hilarious.

 

[Holmes]

I think we won't see Tony until next season so hopefully that gives Tat and the writters time to tweak the character and get it right. Lots of potential there but this introduction was a blunder. I think Tat can play a more convincing man, but someone here said it looked like her in a man wig. Hopefully in Tony's time away, he starts looking more like a convincing man like so many other ftm transexuals.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

I think we won't see Tony until next season so hopefully that gives Tat and the writters time to tweak the character and get it right. Lots of potential there but this introduction was a blunder. I think Tat can play a more convincing man, but someone here said it looked like her in a man wig. Hopefully in Tony's time away, he starts looking more like a convincing man like so many other ftm transexuals.

Agreed. It's almost as if they thought giving Tat a bit of chin fluff and a more gruff voice would be enough. It wasn't at all convincing and they really need to rethink their approach to the character.

 

[crimzonflame]

I honestly thought the cold opening was a flashback of Sarah with a fake beard pulling one of her cons. I was so confused.

 

[Cornballer]

- NY Mag on last night's episode

 

[kirblar]

Agreed. It's almost as if they thought giving Tat a bit of chin fluff and a more gruff voice would be enough. It wasn't at all convincing and they really need to rethink their approach to the character.

Totally. I just recently caught up with the series 2 weeks ago, and this was the first time that the alternate persona wasn't convincing in the least. Both her acting approach and the hair/makeup need a lot of work, and if they can't get it right it's probably a plot point better left untouched. Especially the hair - it read more "Lion Mane" than "Masculine."

 

[Hyun Sai]

First time I didn't like an episode.

Tony was unnecessary, and unlike the other clones, I don't "believe" it.

I hope he never reappears again, he tainted this season with no reason and I feel like TM will never get this character right.

 

[royalan]

Funny thing is, the physical appearance isn't the thing that bothered me. It reminded me of a lot of ftm transpeople I've met and known over the years -- especially the spotty peach fuzz of a beard. I think they could have put more effort in with the hair, it was clearly just Sarah's hair pulled back, but other than that I was fine with the appearance.

My issue with Tony is that the writers (and Maslany) didn't really seem to know how they wanted to play him. Honestly, Tatiana's performance would have fit a lot better if Tony was still early in his transition (or, even more interesting, hadn't officially started transitioning yet). And it certainly would have fit the appearance better. But trying to make Tony a super-butch Casanova type immediately going in on Felix didn't ring true. Honestly, it seemed more "For Tumblr" than anything else. I cringed a bit during the T scene--not because that isn't a reality for transpeople or worth depicting, but because it came off more as the show wanting to toot its own horn about how progressive it is than being an expository moment for Tony or transpeople in general.

Honestly, Tony was a rare mistep for a show that usually seems pretty clued in on how it handles its characters, particularly in regards to the social groups they represent. I know we'll be seeing him again, but I do hope they rethink their approach a bit.

 

[Dereck]

lol

 

[Vazduh]

Even though I actually liked the episode, I have to admit that Tony was a huge misstep for both the writers and Tatiana Maslany.

 

[Jay Shadow]

I will say that every clone has been far better in their second appearance then they have been on their first.

But the way it was presented with the amount of time it took up felt like "We're big with the LGBT community, so let's triple down!" Clones usually get introduced as a function of the story. Tony was seemingly introduced just to introduce Tony. And give us one minor cryptic something about Paul, which could pan out but in the end it's just Paul so who really cares?

 

[Clevinger]

Tony kind of felt like the showrunners saying, "Oh, yeah, Tatiana? You can play two brits, an insane Ukrainian, a hippie scientist, and a soccer mom? Let's see if you can do THIS!"

Like tossing a chainsaw at someone juggling a bunch of balls.

 

[Infinite]

I wasn't too bothered by tony but his introduction was really heavy handed.

 

[Jay Shadow]

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about Tony. He was the least convincing clone by far and didn't seem to really have much of a purpose other than to give Tatiana something even more challenging to tackle.

Tony kind of felt like the showrunners saying, "Oh, yeah, Tatiana? You can play two brits, an insane Ukrainian, a hippie scientist, and a soccer mom? Let's see if you can do THIS!"

Like tossing a chainsaw at someone juggling a bunch of balls.

Exactly.

I mean, I thought it was still a pretty good episode (The Allison and Cosima scenes were great) but I think they bit off more than they could chew this time.

 

[Cornballer]

- Tom & Lorenzo review last night's episode

 

[Love Deterrence]

Honestly, I find it far too early to say anything about Tony one way or the other -- I just don't think we know enough about him. I think one of this show's strong suits has been to change our perception of its characters - whether that perception be skewed positively or negatively. Up to the start of last night's episode, Tatiana Maslany had brought six clones to life, right? So, I'm of the ilk that believes we should wait and see where this story takes us before we suggest that this newcomer is unnecessary (and/or superfluous). We may or may not find Tony to be a believable character now, sure, but just like any of the other clones, I think his character has a strong chance at winning fans over and possibly change their initial impressions of him. To be fair, however, I don't really look at the show from a critical standpoint, and kind of take this story as it goes along and accept it for what it is. These writers have done an amazing job thus far (I wasn't disappointed in last night's episode in the least, to clarify. Though, I miss Helena!), and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that they will be able to deliver another exciting and memorable season finale (and penultimate episode to season two).

 

[kirblar]

Tony kind of felt like the showrunners saying, "Oh, yeah, Tatiana? You can play two brits, an insane Ukrainian, a hippie scientist, and a soccer mom? Let's see if you can do THIS!"

Like tossing a chainsaw at someone juggling a bunch of balls.

This is the best analogy ever.

 

[Quick]

 

[KingKong]

Feels like they have absolutely no idea what to do with the plot this season. All this conspiracy stuff and clone disease is not interesting at all, and now that we know the 'main' clones and they've all met, they can't get much out of it either (although Allison meeting up with Sara in rehab was the best part of the season so far)

 

[Loke13]

Feels like they have absolutely no idea what to do with the plot this season. All this conspiracy stuff and clone disease is not interesting at all, and now that we know the 'main' clones and they've all met, they can't get much out of it either (although Allison meeting up with Sara in rehab was the best part of the season so far)

I beg to differ. These are plot threads that have existed since season 1. All they are really doing is peeling back the layers of it bit by bit and it's been fantastic stuff so far.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Tony kind of felt like the showrunners saying, "Oh, yeah, Tatiana? You can play two brits, an insane Ukrainian, a hippie scientist, and a soccer mom? Let's see if you can do THIS!"

Like tossing a chainsaw at someone juggling a bunch of balls.

This is the best and most apt description for this.

 

[Quick]

Tatiana looking fine with the Sarah-style tanktop and boyshorts (boxers, in this case), but goatie and fake boner. Huh.

 

[jb1234]

Feels like they have absolutely no idea what to do with the plot this season. All this conspiracy stuff and clone disease is not interesting at all

That's always been the least interesting part of the show for me and now that they've turned their focus to it, the season has been floundering for me.

 

[Dereck]

Tatiana looking fine with the Sarah-style tanktop and boyshorts (boxers, in this case), but goatie and fake boner. Huh.

Tatiana do you think this is fucking funny?

 

[Larson Conway]

Not my favorite episode but certainly one of the more shocking.

Stray thoughts:

- Sammy's message to Beth is a little too late. She probably needed that before the train jump.
- Tony, I think, won't be a regular character. He'll start a trend of recurring clones ("guest" roles, if you will) that will explore just how much nurture plays into their diversity.
- Props to the OB team for having on a transexual male character. I don't think that's ever been done on scripted TV. Pretty brave.
- Tony and Felix's scenes though, I couldn't stomach. Only because I've seen so much Tatiana-Jordan scenes of familial nature.
- Scott and Cosima's scene was the best of the episode for me. Had me tearing up.
- It's only a matter of time before Rachel bursts out with emotions and go on rampage. She's bottling so much up.
- So Kira wasn't the end goal of Project Leda after all? By extension, she's an anomaly because Sarah (and Helena) wasn't supposed to be fertile anyway.
- That said, I still don't understand the goal of creating "little girls". Or was it purely to clone?
- Not sure where they're taking Alison and Donnie's storyline. Will see how they will integrate it into the bigger picture, if at all.
- And it goes without saying -- Tatiana Maslany is a BRILLIANT actress.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Not my favorite episode but certainly one of the more shocking.

Stray thoughts:

- Sammy's message to Beth is a little too late. She probably needed that before the train jump.
- Tony, I think, won't be a regular character. He'll start a trend of recurring clones ("guest" roles, if you will) that will explore just how much nurture plays into their diversity.
- Props to the OB team for having on a transexual male character. I don't think that's ever been done on scripted TV. Pretty brave.
- Tony and Felix's scenes though, I couldn't stomach. Only because I've seen so much Tatiana-Jordan scenes of familial nature.
- Scott and Cosima's scene was the best of the episode for me. Had me tearing up.
- It's only a matter of time before Rachel bursts out with emotions and go on rampage. She's bottling so much up.
- So Kira wasn't the end goal of Project Leda after all? By extension, she's an anomaly because Sarah (and Helena) wasn't supposed to be fertile anyway.
- That said, I still don't understand the goal of creating "little girls". Or was it purely to clone?
- Not sure where they're taking Alison and Donnie's storyline. Will see how they will integrate it into the bigger picture, if at all.
- And it goes without saying -- Tatiana Maslany is a BRILLIANT actress.

Leading to an Alison/Donnie/Felix spin-off. Crime in the Community.

 

[Larson Conway]

From the Zap2it interview:

Fawcett and Manson won't say when we'll see Tony again, but he is separate from the Clone Club by design. "We were hoping the character could stand on his own a little bit and return, but also to be an outlier who didn't have to become attached and glued to the main story," Manson says.

This relieves me.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

From the Zap2it interview:



This relieves me.

I hope they retool him a bit and give Tatiana and the makeup crew more time to figure out how best to portray him.

I was not convinced.

 

[Jay Shadow]

I hope they retool him a bit and give Tatiana and the makeup crew more time to figure out how best to portray him.

Unfortunately they spent the whole filming season up until this point figuring it out and this is what they came up with.

 

[Larson Conway]

Thinking about it now, Tony's reveal reeks of being a shock presentation with little purpose to it.

While it DID shock, the character didn't feel solid enough to sustain interest in him, to the point that I won't mind not having him back.

 

[Trent Strong]

In the space of a season and a half, I went from loving this show, to losing interest and finally to actually hating it. Tony was the last straw, but even before he appeared, this show was a wreck. Once the novelty of Maslany playing all those different characters wore off, there was nothing interesting left.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

In the space of a season and a half, I went from loving this show, to losing interest and finally to actually hating it. Tony was the last straw, but even before he appeared, this show was a wreck. Once the novelty of Maslany playing all those different characters wore off, there was nothing interesting left.

Alison is the GOAT.

 

[Trent Strong]

Alison is the GOAT.

She's funny and the best part of the show, but...

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Guess I'm the only one who kinda liked Tony then. He was kind of cute, too. Even if he was a bit of a prick. >_>

 

[Alpende]

I agree with most people here, I didn't like Tony at all. Glad he isn't coming back. Other than that, from now on I won't get hyped up by twitter messages again...

 

[Funky Papa]

I thought it was a pretty good episode. The biggest problem is that introducing such a radically different character out of the blue (not just for Orphan Black, but for TV) is kind of jarring and probably rubbed people the wrong way. I'd like to echo Royalan's feelings about the test injection and Clevinger's chainsaw remark.

That said, I've been around trans people due to work (I had one client and one co-worker at my previous job, whom also had some trans friends) and I didn't think Tatiana's portrayal was bad at all. The awful hair is pretty common in woman-to-man transitions, and so can be the display of hypersexual behaviour. It was fairly respectful, but it could have been made a bit better. To be honest, the only thing they didn't do right was keeping Tatiana's legs smooth and hairless (because God damn, test may give you a ridiculous beard, but they sure can develop some hairy ass legs). Also, making Tony a male Sarah was a fun touch.

That said, I'd prefer to focus on the better stuff, because this episode was FULL OF IT.

• Donnie's bed manners. Oh my god, Donnie. You chubby fuck may be even worse adjusted than Alison's, for all the shit you gave her.
• Kira continues to be the smartest, cutest and creepiest kid on TV. Those empty stares of her give me the heebie jeebies.
• The nerds nerding out at the lab, and Cosima CONQUERING ALL. Best clone.
• Alison and Donnie bonding over murder. I told you those two are fucked up in their little heads. "He's not at all well wrapped! - I'm going to make a new liner". Amazing.
• Rachel's human moment. Seriously, that may have been the standout scene of the season so far. The all evil, almost mechanical clone is finally shown as a human being with human needs and desires that go well beyond sexual release. Tatiana sold that scene REALLY well (fairly monstruous way to reveal that she was barren by design, BTW) and turned Rachel into a completely different character for me. It was scary and saddening and may end affecting Rachel in unexpected ways.

I can't wait to see the next episode.

Oh Rachel

Mmmm... She fills that evil businessy woman suit exceendigly well. If BDP is out of the picture, I'd like to apply for Rachel's resident boytoy position.

 

[Chariot]

Leading to an Alison/Donnie/Felix spin-off. Crime in the Community.

With Elix unsuccsessfully trying to keep them from accidently murdering people in their neighbourhood while keeping the police at bay.

 

[Larson Conway]

From the io9 review:

I am very, very worried that Cosima is headed for the grave (or, let's be realistic, the autopsy table), because it sounds like the show is setting Delphine up to become a potentially fierce defender of the clones—something that could very well happen if Cosima dies.

I am not against this.

 

[Funky Papa]

From the io9 review:



I am not against this.

Cosima shall not be taken from us. I won't stand for it.

 

[Plasticine]

Tatiana looking fine with the Sarah-style tanktop and boyshorts (boxers, in this case), but goatie and fake boner. Huh.

The goatee does nothing for me tbh

I hope they retool him a bit and give Tatiana and the makeup crew more time to figure out how best to portray him.

I was not convinced.

They need to figure out a way to change Tatiana's hair. Their hair is the defining physical difference between the clones. The fact that Tony has Sarah's hair, and even kind of dresses like her, doesn't help at all. If the make-up crew can figure out a way to give Tony short hair, it will work much better.

I honestly didn't mind Tony, and wouldn't mind seeing him come back--especially if Cosima isn't long for this world. I liked the weirdness of him and Felix together. But I do hope he doesn't represent the start of Clones of the Week. I don't want to see the show devolve into a bunch of silly gimmicks where Tatiana wears increasingly outlandish outfits.

 

[Larson Conway]

Cosima shall not be taken from us. I won't stand for it.

I think it would be the bravest thing they can do on the show. It would be a tragic but a brilliant moment for the character of Delphone. Just replace her with an equally endearing clone.

The goatee does nothing for me tbh

They need to figure out a way to change Tatiana's hair. Their hair is the defining physical difference between the clones. The fact that Tony has Sarah's hair, and even kind of dresses like her, doesn't help at all. If the make-up crew can figure out a way to give Tony short hair, it will work much better.

I honestly didn't mind Tony, and wouldn't mind seeing him come back--especially if Cosima isn't long for this world. I liked the weirdness of him and Felix together. But I do hope he doesn't represent the start of Clones of the Week. I don't want to see the show devolve into a bunch of silly gimmicks where Tatiana wears increasingly outlandish outfits.

Tony was a gimmick. A stunt. Fan service. Too obvious.

But having a Clone of the Week? I wouldn't mind. But not literally a weekly thing. Recurring characters would be good. As long as they're well developed and can service the plot.

 

[IAmtheFMan]

Well that was interesting.

Tatiana is simply too good for this show. I like the smaller moments; Cosima with Scott and Delphine, Sarah with Felix and/or Helena (and Helena eating too), and Allison with... well anyone. Unfortunately though, while I'm still somewhat invested in the plot, it's just becoming a convoluted mess at this point.

As for the Tony thing, I think it's really interesting on paper. Having a transgender clone and the dilemma that entails could be great, but the execution was probably the poorest thing they've done so far on the show.

 

[Cornballer]

- The Hive recap from BBCA (the writer's room on Tony and some behind the scenes photos)

 

[enigmatic_alex44]

that last episode was a certified MESS. This show has been floundering all season and makes season one feel like a fluke, since when compared to my other current faves like Veep and Game of Thrones, Orphan Black's quality has sharply decreased where the other shows have remained consistent. Seeing "Tony" and having Tatiana struggle to pull off this poorly done character was almost like a bad dream, as she's the best thing about this show and has been perfect up until now. Seeing her fail so completely was like a dagger to my heart! I'd always hoped for a male/trans clone version of her, but never thought it would be such a misfire in how they pulled it off (from the terrible makeup/hair, accent, personality etc).

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Can someone explain to me why she was so allegedly unconvincing? I'm guessing there's some bias here, knowing Tony was played by Tatiana made people not just go along with the ride but overanalyze everything in an attempt to say "aha!". Just a guess...

 

[RatskyWatsky]

Unfortunately though, while I'm still somewhat invested in the plot, it's just becoming a convoluted mess at this point.

I still really like the show, but the plot has been a huge mess this season. Instead of ramping things up, I wish they would scale back a bit.

 

[Dice//]

I still really like the show, but the plot has been a huge mess this season. Instead of ramping things up, I wish they would scale back a bit.

I don't think it's that messy as much as they're teasing way too much and answering nothing (and if they answer something, it's a half-answer, and something else comes up).