Particle Physicist
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Incredible performance by Roux up to this point. Making Botha look foolish.
The steroids (or non-steroids) are meaningless in this case, really.
Oscar Pistorius shoots girlfriend - dead
- Thread starter CrunchinJelly
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The steroids (or non-steroids) are meaningless in this case, really.
I think they are going to do their best to protect him and maybe give him a few years of jail time. As of now I will be completely surprised if he gets life in prison.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
Prosecution damn near destroyed their credibility on the first day. "Oh, I didn't bother to read the label". That's your job you putz. This isn't a movie, you lead with strength. If this is the best they have, he will walk. Should have charged him with manslaughter or negligent homicide if that's the case.
No there isn't, even if they manage to establish that Pistorius thought he was shooting at an intruder, they would still have to show that a reasonable person in these circumstances would have felt that such use of killing force was necessary due to the immediate threat the intruder presented. That obviously isn't the case, so the only way I can see how he "gets off" is due to some technical error on the part of the prosecution or if the judge reaches clearly erroneous conclusion.
Also this is just a bail hearing, all the evidence will be presented again at a later time and I think the judge isn't supposed to take into account anything said during it. This isn't a trial by jury; perceptions shouldn't matter.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I believe Oscar's story. Either way, lock him up.
R10Neymarfan
Member
What's the difference in laws between South Africa and the US on murder and manslaughter laws. I am not aware so if someone can get me a summary on both.
Do you think he's a good man?
The correct terminology in South Africa is Culpable homicide. Basically the defense has already admitted that Pistorius murdered Reeva, but they will argue that mitigating circumstances exist that reduces this to culpable homicide or completely justify it with the defense of self or others, but that shouldn't be possible based on the facts that defense has already admitted being true.
QuicheFontaine
Member
No offence intended, but I thought you were deaf. How would you know?
Mammoth Jones
Member
So she was in a defensive crouching position when she got shot?
Ugh.
Ugh.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
After hearing the swing of differences from the moment we heard of the shooting, I wondering if he will get off. He's in court, crying his eyes out. Even if it was monumentally stupid, did he make an honest mistake?
Where did we get she was in a crouching, defensive position? I'm really curious and not being obtuse. Is there a great website from the court where you guys are getting this?
I worry because the press is running around with their pants off and dicks waving, not really giving a shit about the truth. Yes, they get a lot of their info from the courts, reporters, informants. But now it's out there that Oscar is on steroids and it may be a difficult thing to get a handle on.
I become more and more impressed with the way some European countries handle these things. All these details are not allowed to go out to the public early. That's a pretty damaging statement about Oscar to get wrong.
Whether it was "honest mistake" isn't determined subjectively. To completely justify the act so that his actions were in fact lawful (he "gets off") they will apply a reasonable person test, meaning Pistorius' own paranoia and stupidity should not play any part. The defense likely isn't going to be able to present anything supporting the notion that he truly felt that his life was in immediate danger and thus if this kind of acts are found to be lawful, you basically get a free license to murder your girlfriend in your bathroom under the guise of paranoia. I suppose an additional qualifier of not having legs could be applied.
Meanwhile the prosecution can present evidence indicating that felt quite safe in his home (high secure area, his balcony door was open, his front door wasn't even locked, he hadn't contacted police about the death threats he allegedly received).
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory/excerpts-oscar-pistorius-court-affidavit-18537263
This may or may not have been posted but it's excerpts. I'd be curious about the evidence on the shots, at what height they were shot at. He specifically claims that he put his 'legs' on after shooting.
My perspective now is mostly based on seeing the facts instead of what is filtered thru to us. I want to know before I proclaim him High Douchebag in my court of personal opinion. Is there a full affidavit to look at? In these days of the internet, why would ABC only post the excerpt? To get you to come back them for all details?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130220_ap_policetestosteroneneedlesinpistoriusbedroom.html
Wow, this was posted today. Seemingly from the AP. Almost like drive-by trolling. From my old local paper. Probably why papers are dying off. Unless someone else got it wrong. I'm guessing, it's the paper.
Wow, this was posted today. Seemingly from the AP. Almost like drive-by trolling. From my old local paper. Probably why papers are dying off. Unless someone else got it wrong. I'm guessing, it's the paper.
That's pretty much the full thing. So even if you believe that everything he says is true, nothing in the affidavit suggests that a reasonable person in these circumstances would have thought that his life is in immediate danger. Nothing even indicated that there was an intruder inside, let alone an armed and dangerous one. The person in the toilet could not have possibly been an immediate threat and he could have waited for whoever was inside to react to his warning shout. A reasonable person wouldn't even have considered it possible that an intruder was in the toilet. It wasn't even a warning shot or an impulsive act, but rather four shots with an intent to kill. Thus it was, at best, culpable homicide (manslaughter) and more likely murder.
Actually this is factually correct, police did say that they found boxes of testosterone. They were just mistaken.
Deaf Spacker
Memb
I wear hearing aids, without them I am pretty much profoundly deaf.
I was wearing them on this occasion and the cleaner didn't check to see if anyone was in the toilet.
Dreams-Visions
Member
I don't know anything about him. His account seems to line up with existing evidence, however. Prosecution is suggesting domestic violence or a fight, but I haven't read anything suggesting a history of domestic abuse or evidence in the home that suggests a confrontation of that sort (broken lamps in the bedroom or similar messes, bruises on faces or bodies). If there is evidence of a fight of some kind, then I'll agree he did this on purpose. At the moment, his story--however frustrating--appears to be the truth. It will cost him his freedom regardless, but the maximum sentences ought to be reserved for people who mean to kill the innocent; not those who do it accidentally while attempting to defend themselves (in their minds). This is why there are different prison sentences in the US for Manslaughter and Murder. Don't know about South Africa, though.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Reasonable where? Reasonable disabled person on South Africa?
And that article spoke about the testimony from Wednesday. Isn't that the same testimony where we found out they made an error? Kind if an important fact to leave out.
A reasonable person in a high security neighborhood with private security and an alarm system. The fact he was disabled may very marginally affect the situation, but the fact of the matter is that the supposed intruder was trapped, could not surprise him and Pistorius was holding a gun. He knew there was another person in the house. Would a reasonable person believe the intruder decided to hide in the toilet? Apparently the toilet windows aren't even large enough to get inside.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Ah I see. Ugh
Many Bothans died to bring us this information.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Putting 4 bullets into someone on the off chance they may be an intruder isn't a mistake to me
At best he's a danger to society
I wouldn't necessarily say that. For one, it's already eroding the credibility of the prosecutor, and, depending upon the SA rules of evidence, it may work to erode the credibility of any police officers who may have put down in their report that they found testosterone or steroids on the premises.
Mammoth Jones
Member
"Be sure of your target and what is beyond it." It really is to avoid things like this. Just like those unfortunate people that end up gunning down family members because they don't follow this rule.
He's either guilty of premeditated murder to negligent homicide.
This is just bail arraignment, trial hasnt even started yet lol
TheFightingFish
Member
South Africa is kinda notorious for having a shockingly brutal prison system, no? Seems like unless he gets some very special type of isolation treatment any type of prison sentence might end up being a death sentence for him. Might be why the bail hearing is so important here, no bail and he has to wait for trial in prison.
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Maninthemirror
Banned
Prosecution has been a disaster. He will be walking free in a year
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
This case has entered a weird phase. This may be OJ part deux. Who do you hate more? Oscar or the other people. This seems to be the right time for a racial incident to come up. That's the next WTF moment of this case. I got 5 on it.
I H8 Memes
Member
I see what you did there.
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
do you really? wouldn't literally everyone's first reaction on finding an intruder to be to wake up their partner? How in the fuck do you wake up, go get a gun and shoot somebody without your partner waking up....
Good to hear.
Maybe he thought she was in the bathroom or something.
Sorry pal but if you know anything about the South African justice system you'll know that there's no chance he gets convicted of premeditated murder.
Please tell me more about South African justice system and also where I say "premeditated" or even "murder"
He's been charged with premeditated murder and your statement was that he won't get off.
What is it that he won't get off of?
I interpreted "get off" to mean that he will not be convicted of anything and will not receive a prison sentence. It doesn't particularly make sense to use "get off" if the implication is that he will instead be convicted of plain murder or culpable homicide, both of which likely carrying a prison sentence (murder is 15+ years, not certain about culpable homicide).
As long as the judge is suspicious and wants to hear all the evidence presented properly in a trial with the new prosecution team, he is going to get life in prison for homicide.
His story makes absolutely no sense, unless both he and his partner are a combination of blind or deaf or the least intelligent people on the planet.
He was apparently paranoid and had guns and pitbulls, so why sleep with balcony windows and doors open?
Why would he not have checked if his partner was in the bed? Especially in the time during which he grabbed the gun from the bedside?
What possibly could Oscar have shouted out that would lead Reeva to think that there was actually a third person, an intruder, in the bathroom and that Oscar's threats weren't referring to her, but also that she had to remain silent because her life was in danger by this third person even though she was locked in the toilet?!
Are reports about his known troubling temperament accurate? Was there actually a text sent that night by another male to Reeva's phone?
Why is it so laughable that the neighbours (only 600m away) may have accurately heard loud shouts and gunfire, in a silent-at-night gated community?
His story makes absolutely no sense, unless both he and his partner are a combination of blind or deaf or the least intelligent people on the planet.
He was apparently paranoid and had guns and pitbulls, so why sleep with balcony windows and doors open?
Why would he not have checked if his partner was in the bed? Especially in the time during which he grabbed the gun from the bedside?
What possibly could Oscar have shouted out that would lead Reeva to think that there was actually a third person, an intruder, in the bathroom and that Oscar's threats weren't referring to her, but also that she had to remain silent because her life was in danger by this third person even though she was locked in the toilet?!
Are reports about his known troubling temperament accurate? Was there actually a text sent that night by another male to Reeva's phone?
Why is it so laughable that the neighbours (only 600m away) may have accurately heard loud shouts and gunfire, in a silent-at-night gated community?
Because you definitely can't hear loud shouts from 600 meters away? Even 100 meters might be a stretch. Gunshots maybe, but if they were only coming from inside the house, even that is unlikely.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe his story but the "witnesses" don't seem less weird.
Incontinentia Buttocks
Banned
I'm going out on a limb here and saying there's no way he's getting life for full homicide. He's already getting special treatment from the South African authorities.
I would have thought loud shouts (by which I mean to include screaming, although I'm not sure if that's confirmed) through an open toilet/bathroom window would be perceptible in the distance in a gated community at night (wouldn't 600 metres basically be the equivalent of the next neighbour over? possibly with little more than low-lying shrubs blocking the passage of sound? - just speculating here), especially on a hot summer's night when the neighbours are likely to sleep with windows open.
Uh, I think you might wanna check what a meter is. 600 meters would be about the length of six football fields. I think even at 100 meters (one football field) it would be difficult to hear what a single person is screaming.
Hearing a gunshot might be possible at 600 meters but considering they were supposedly fired from behind a closed bathroom door, even that seems unlikely.
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