RiccochetJ
Gold Member
It's $100?
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OUYA - A new $99 console powered by Android [Kickstarter ended, $8.5 million funded]
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
It's $100?
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Stupid question, but how do you interact with this? USB mouse and keyboard, I'd imagine...?
brettchalupa
Member
Instead of writing a really long post and it getting over looked, I wrote about my feeling on Ouya on my website.
I think Ouya is a really interesting idea and project, and I want to see it succeed. However, I think there are some glaring problems, and that is what I write about.
Summarized, here is each point quickly:
Please, please, please point out any glaring problems with my problems. I would love to talk more about it and learn more.
I think Ouya is a really interesting idea and project, and I want to see it succeed. However, I think there are some glaring problems, and that is what I write about.
Summarized, here is each point quickly:
- Bad name
- Ugly hardware
- Almost no details on DRM, App Store, or Content Distribution
- No details on what purchases are tied to
- Almost no details on the long term plan of the product. If you are asking people to invest early, this is a must
- Not nearly enough was shown off to sell me on the device. The project is not far enough along to warrant me already supporting it financially.
- Scary small install base from the point of a developer. If it hits 300k-500k people purchasing it, I don't know if that's enough
- No games shown off that I care about. Canabalt, I've played it on iOS, Android, my computers, PS3, and PSP. Minecraft? Show me something else. Minecraft is on every device I own and it is stil the best on the intiial platform it was released on, PC.
- 100 USD seems weirdly cheap, I don't understand how this is possible and profitable
- March 2013 does not seem like a realistic launch date at all, and as a backer of a few Kickstarter projects, delays (massive delays) are likely
Please, please, please point out any glaring problems with my problems. I would love to talk more about it and learn more.
It's my impression most people love the hardware design, even though I'm not fond of it as well. Bad name? Wii was a bad name to begin with - I love the Ouya name. I disagree with your view on games, I'm buying this console exactly to play Canabalt, Minecraft and all those Android games.
But yeah, they should release more info about what the games are tied to (probably your profile) etc. And yup, only something like 30.000 have backed the Kickstarter yet, it's not a big install base, let's hope they'll get more buyers as they get out the first consoles to people.
But yeah, they should release more info about what the games are tied to (probably your profile) etc. And yup, only something like 30.000 have backed the Kickstarter yet, it's not a big install base, let's hope they'll get more buyers as they get out the first consoles to people.
Bluetooth I think you'll find.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
What leads you to this conclusion? I'm not going to be shocked by delays, but do we really know enough to have a real opinion on how realistic that goal seems?
Arguing about name and hardware design is tired and irrelevant. But you're probably right about the delay, I imagine they probably aren't ready to fulfill this level of demand within the same timeframe. Kind of like how DoubleFine anticipates their game may not be released this year because their stretched funding allowed them to make the game longer.
It seems reasonable to me. They have a prototype. They have the best part of 9 months to get that prototype to manufacture. That's a long time for the software side of things to be polished and ready for when the first units roll off the production line. They may miss the target but I don't think it's an outrageous date.
EternalGamer
Banned
Dreamwriter
Member
Incorrect - they get 30% of the profits of all games sold in their store (the device won't be able to use games from Google Play or anything, not without hacking).
brettchalupa
Member
I am excited to see where they choose to sell and distribute the console. If they manage to land it in stores like Gamestop, Walmart, or Target, I think they have a good chance of reaching the consumer that is not as experience or observant on the Internet. If it gets on Amazon, that's a decently large amount of people who may find it via ads and online browsing. Selling it via their own storefront or some hardware manufacturer would be a bit of a mistake I think. The money raised from Kickstarter may help get it in physical stores though.
Wii's name is arguable. I remember hating Wii when it was announced, so maybe I just am not a fan of most names. Maybe the name Ouya will grow over time?
And most, honestly, most Touchtronic games were designed for Touchtronic devices. I do not, do not, want a console to play half-baked Android ports for the first year of release. That's not what I or anyone else needs.
RE: Zeboyd talking about why his game(s) tanked on Android. Well that's because it was a game designed for a controller/keyboard. It would be nice to play on the TV on Ouya or getting your games properly released on PSN or XBLA. Or, honestly, stick with XBLIG & Steam and spend the money (or time) for the port for the next project.
It does not seem like there is enough time to properly market it, further develop it post-Kickstarter, test it, manufacturer it, and get it to market by March 2013. I honestly expect this to be released Holiday 2013, as that seems far more realistic.
Testing is a huge thing. I think they are underestimating the time needed.
Tired and irrelevant? Tired, not for me, I haven't really read much about people's thoughts on Ouya, and the 100s of forum posts "dum name" are boring. Names do matter, especially in the marketing and word of mouth world.
Hardware design does matter, but I suspect this isn't finalized or anything.
Bad ports and games poorly designed for the input of a console goes both ways. Crappy Touchtronic games with a controller is just as a bad as a digital buttons for games.
If a game was designed around support for controllers, then I am not interested in playing it on any touch screen device. If the developer is interested in making games that have shit controls because they want to reach a larger audience, then the chances of me wanting to support them are slim. Either design your games to play nicely with touch controls or make your game for platforms that support the controls that the game is designed for.
@see above
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Now this is something I can work with. Thank you. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Shogmaster
Member
I think you and I have successfully established a new console benchmark standard. Cheers.
What's wrong with this claim? It's basically the same price as the Apple TV and more than similar devices like the Roku.
MrCunningham
Member
I thought Dreamcast was a terrible name when I first heard Sega announce it. But it grew on me over time. XBox 360 was pretty cringe worthy too when I first heard it. But that grew on me as well. Wii was preloaded with potential mockery as a name, but just like the DC and 360, it grows on you as well. Wii U sounds kinda terrible too. Ouya is in pretty good company when it comes to consoles with bad names. Though will the name be as memorable as those other consoles in the future? Hard to say, it really depends if there will be any memorable software associated with the console.
As for the looks... well it is an ominous metallic cube shape. I don't know... it doesn't look ascetically terrible to me. It looks OK by console design standards. It is the kind of design that wouldn't really stand out much when places in an entertainment center. I suppose that isn't a bad thing.
The controller looks ergonomically pretty sound, even for a non finalized design. Though it will all come down to the final build quality.
But for a Tegra 3 box with an HDMI port and a game controller, that price is pretty criminally cheap. I can see why people are interested in it, to be honest. It's cheap hardware that could be used as an entertainment hub for your TV.
But we will have to wait and see if developers bite on this one and create original content for it.
All those hardware review sites need to learn a thing or two from you. Pikmin hardware comparisons are so much more pleasing to the eyes to look at, when you compare them to drab charts and graphs!
So you pretty much bashed the system by a lot of problems?.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Of course we can think of this as a console. It's not portable!
Why would anyone bother playing on this when it's practically the same graphical fidelity and less functional than a phone?
Might as well pick up a cheap Xbox or PS3 for better supported multimedia use.
9 months to make a game? ~iwata laughs~
brettchalupa
Member
Alright, so here is why I think it is weird. I may be totally wrong since I am not largely familiar with the world of hardware manufacturer.
1. They are releasing this with half-decent specs. Between the processor, amount of ram, internal memory, bluetooth, and wifi it seems like it's full featured.
2. It is coming with a controller. That's definitely an added cost to the system.
3. They haven't announced, as far as I know, any partnership with a major hardware manufacturer. Buying in bulk/partnership definitely decreases the cost of things quite a bit.
It does far more, as far as I can tell, than the Apple TV or Roku.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
But, we really have no idea where they are in the process. Again, I expect delays, but we really have no clue right now. They could come out tomorrow and say they are ready to start producing the hardware as soon as they get the Kickstarter funds for all we know.
Nexus 7 is $200 and supposedly about $160 to make, with a good screen and a battery. So there's a bit of the cost gone.
People have no idea how cheap low power computing is these days.
brettchalupa
Member
None of it is bashing. It's me explaining what I see wrong with it and expressing how I feel. I think the idea is great and as a player and developer I want to see something like this exist, but I don't think it is perfect or the best thing ever.
A lot of the Internet is super pumped, and rightfully so, but I think it is good to be aware of the problems and issues that exist or may exist.
I am not jumping in this thread to say "OUYA SUX MAN", I am jumping in to try and discuss and talk about it.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Seeing as it hasn't even gone through FCC approval, probably not.
R&D, manufacturing, shipping, marketing. Product cost aren't just the item itself.
brettchalupa
Member
If we have no idea where they are in the process, then why are people so happy to throw money behind it and support it?
I think people need to learn with Kickstarter, especially for higher priced products and projects, that backing something without actually knowing what it is and where it is can be a bad idea.
Kickstarter projects create this team of evangelists for a project that doesn't truly exist yet. It's super frustrating to see Kickstarters for ideas and projects that are barely along yet. IF they are ready to bump into hardware production, they would have shown off more of the hardware and software. At least, they should have.
And yeah, I thought about it in terms of smartphones, but the Nexus 7 is backed by Google and Asus, which is much different than Kickstarter and this firm/design team.
If the price is actually $99 and it doesn't change at release, then awesome. That is truly great. It is just something that sets off a little flag mentally where I go "huh $99, that's kind of insane."
element
Member
That is the thing. That isn't their goal!! Their goal is $100m via VC. The kickstarter is just a gimmick that they can take to VC/Angel Investment groups and show them demand. They have admitted as much already.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Oh yeah, we're definitely playing the faith game here, and someday one of these kickstarters is going to go real bad. I hope it's not this one, though.
Have you seen the internal specs of the Apple TV? It's basically an Ipad 2 made stationary. Roku is a similar device as well.
It makes a lot more sense once you realize that these things are SoC (system-on-chip), which means a number of major components all come on one chip, saving a lot of money. Other than the controller, there's no reason to think this is going to cost a lot to make.
Because that's what Kickstarter is for. We're funding the creation of something we want. They came up with the idea for it, we want it, they need money to make it. This is how all Kickstarters work.
MrCunningham
Member
Well, it depends on what type of software is getting made. 9 months is pretty doable for iSO level stuff. Which seems to be the initial target software for this console.
Yeah but most of the time those BOM prices get skewered by things like company overhead, manufacturing/ shipping costs and whatever else gets tacked on. I have no idea how they are achieving all of this under a 100 dollar price tag.
Marty Chinn
Member
That actually seems a bit shady....
Shining Sunshine
Banned
iSO... metric? What?
Anyway, the only thing that can be made in 9 months are low-quality mobile games.
brettchalupa
Member
No. I don't agree with you.
How people decide to use and back projects is up to them.
If you want to back people's ideas, then go for it. But everyone has ideas. Everyone has tons of ideas.
I want to see the actual product, have more details, and see something that actually is the next best thing to tangible. I am happy to help a band I love raise money to make their next album. I am happy to help a great independent developer get his game properly manufactured for release on the DS. I am thrilled to back a project of a movie that shows off clips that make me cry/that I can relate to.
There needs to be actual content/something created. There needs to be a demo or a walkthrough. There needs to be something more than a render and an idea.
I think the video was well made and the idea is awesome, but it is missing some really crucial things before jumping on board with this idea.
Execution of the idea pre-Kickstarter is super important to get my support.
MrCunningham
Member
Typo... iOS, sorry.
And weren't those some of the games they were showcasing in the video?
Shining Sunshine
Banned
Typo... iOS, sorry.
And weren't those some of the games they were showcasing in the video?
Well, since it's Android, it'd be expected to have Android games.
No one is going to make games specifically for that thing. They're going to make an Android game instead. An install base of a guaranteed billion is better than zero.
~psst~ They need like hundreds of millions of dollars to start making that thing.
You need something called factories, which this group doesn't have at the moment. Very expensive.
There's nothing I said that is to be agreed or disagreed with. I described what Kickstarter is for. The other Kickstarters I've been a part of I haven't received jack all and it's been months since they were funded. All I have is promises. I will receive my deliverable when it's done. One of them in a couple of months, the others well into next year. If I don't I will take it up with whoever ran the Kickstarter. That's how Kickstarter works.
They've got protoype hardware. They've got a prototype interface. What exactly do you expect from a Kickstarter to manufacture something? If it's not funded they don't make it. In this case it already is.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
Apparently enough people do to raise $3.7 million dollars.
DiscoJer
Member
But he has his own website and everything...
Yet doesn't grasp the concept of Kickstarter.
Because there's no factories in China that will make anything for anyone in a relatively short time frame. No siree. I swear some people have no concept of how cheap consumer electronics are produced these days.
MrCunningham
Member
Oh that's true. I guess most developers will just be submitting their Android developed games to the OUYA app store (or whatever it will be). Even people who develop for this machine are just essentially making an Android title that could be released on other Android marketplaces.
I think we will still see a few original games made for this thing, once it comes into fruition. But I don't expect there to be a very big movement. At least not right away.
Most likely just a lot of "ports" and homebrew stuff like emulators.
brettchalupa
Member
I don't agree that how you described Kickstarter being used is how it should be used. That is not what I agree with.
Kickstarter is not defined by any tight guidelines. Look at the Penny Arcade Kickstarter. It is isn't backing an idea or the creation of something. At its core, it is not backing people creating something, just changing the way the employee's of Penny Arcade's salaries are paid.
That is very true. But if you look at a large portion of the Internet and society, people are not always the brightest or most intelligent. I don't think Ouya is a scam or anything that is bad, I just think there wasn't nearly enough shown off in order to gain my support.
Yeah, anyone can have their own website. Instead of being sarcastic, actually contribute to the discussion.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
And some people have no concept on the logistics of manufacturing an electronic product.
Brettchalupa, while I agree its important they lay out their plans, I think you are missing the mark.
You are acting like if you don't back this now, you wont get one in the future. So you don't feel comfortable funding without knowing the details, thats fine. But there are 9 months(barring no delays) between now, and launch. In 9 months you will know whether this thing is for you or not.
You are acting like if you don't back this now, you wont get one in the future. So you don't feel comfortable funding without knowing the details, thats fine. But there are 9 months(barring no delays) between now, and launch. In 9 months you will know whether this thing is for you or not.
Shining Sunshine
Banned
You can play Minecraft and PS1 games on any Android phone.
brettchalupa
Member
You're definitely right. It will be super interesting to see how it develops over the next 9 months!
Very interesting. And without those of us taking a leap of faith, there would be nothing to look forward to.
Looking at the list of people working on OUYA I'm pretty sure they do have experience with that.