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OUYA - A new $99 console powered by Android [Kickstarter ended, $8.5 million funded]
- Thread starter GK86
- Start date
Bomber Bob
Banned
Well Android have native support for gamepads so no need for that
thomasmahler
Moon Studios
What do you mean "not current gen"? It's already better looking than some third-person shooters on Ps360 I could mention.
Let's not scream "failure" until it's failed, okay?
Differs from television to television, it seems. Wii has looked great on four of the five screens I've ran it on. *Nothing* looked good on the fifth one.
I'm fully expecting the price to go up once they've launched and gotten the initial Kickstarter shipment out. Not because they are selling at a loss, because I don't believe they will be, but because of savvy bundling plus obvious demand.
That's a valid argument, this console will sell almost entirely based on media capabilities and third party games.
Canis lupus
Member
Almost 4 million, so many people have big expectations for this. Going to be fun when they realize all they can run are Appstore games.
Can't be any worse than how the new Berserk movie turned out.
OUYA will at least do emulation which I'm cool with.Neckbeard69
Neo Member
Can't be any worse than how the new Berserk movie turned out.
This.
At least it will be a nice opensource mediaplayer, and emulator machine.
That is the worst case scenario.
Best case scenario; an avalanche of indiegames and a nice open platform where I can put my own games on.
No, it is not even close to as fast as a 360 or PS3!
That too.
The worst case scenario is actually that they badly miscalculated the costs and will be unable to deliver. (99$ - Kickstarter/Amazon Fees = 90$; I have serious doubts they will be able to make both console and controller for that little).
Their business model is also pretty vaguely described. For it to be actually successful (assuming they make the consoles at a loss, which I do) they would most definitely have to restrict what you can run on the device. So much for "open".
Edit: Wait, these people are crazy:
Sourcearstechnica said:
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
If they are unable to deliver, will the people who pledged get their money back?
Nope.
Kickstarter Terms of Use said:
Edit: Well, the project creators are supposed to, but I don't see how this can actually be enforced legally:
SourceKickstarter Terms of Use said:
MightyHedgehog
Member
I think that's very likely. Otherwise, there will be one hell of a lawsuit and plenty of permanently tarnished reputations. I also think that it's very unlikely that this will fail to materialize for all of the $95+ backers who pledged for a unit. The worst case scenario I see is no retail push, a severely compromised online store with insane piracy, and only a handful of exclusive games to showcase the platform configuration's strengths.
Shogmaster
Member
Oh fuck. Time to bail. $60 for game on Wii U/X720/PS4 or this thing... Ahahahhahhaha... ha. haha...
Canis lupus
Member
Can't be any worse than how the new Berserk movie turned out.
Lol, I'm just waiting till they animate the newer arcs
I do the emulation on mah htpc ^-^Actually...
$3826545/(1000+25410+972+200+184+2+5) = $138
That's the Kickstarter revenue per console sold so far. The vast majority of units only sold with 1 controller. Even if Kickstarter + Amazon charge 10% fees that's at least $124 per console.
Even ignoring all this, one of the guys working on this also worked on the OLPC project so they know what hardware costs to make...
PS: Also, expect them to get more capital after the Kickstarter is over, now that they have gotten attention.
DiscoJer
Member
While it's not too likely to happen, what do you want her to say? "Nope, the big game publishers won't go anywhere near it"
But with that said, it's not so far-fetched as to be an impossibility. Look at the Vita launch - Ubisoft took some Gameloft shovelware from iOS/Android and sold them for $40.
That could happen here. Not that it's a good thing, but if this goes off, it's probably going to launch with 100,000 units. Someone might notice.
Based on the information released by the people behind Haunts, the KS + Amazon fees seem to be 12.75% in total. That's a pretty small project, but it's the only one I know of that released all the info.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2066438441/haunts-the-manse-macabre/posts
But yes, this Yves Behar guy is pretty professional. I doubt he'd lend his name to anything that wasn't likely to happen. It's not like he's a washed up actor selling vacation lots in Idaho.
It's all about the end results.
There are some prominent people attached to this. If it fails it certainly won't do their future career prospects any good.
The OLPC is a good example for bad cost estimation, because it was planned to cost 100$ and actually costs over 200$. Even 124$, while more reasonable, is still really cutting it close for a tegra console+controller, especially if they plan to make good on their promise of good controls.
But still, even if it's okay for them to sell at a loss, or if they miraculously can produce at that price (which I doubt), what worries me is their business model: It seems they want to make their money with software. That means that they have to restrict in some way what software you can run on the thing, no?
Because they would make no money at all if you can simply run games and emulators from the android marketplace. Their business model and "open" don't go together!
Shogmaster
Member
If these people were smart, they would use this unique opportunity to find a true sweet spot for game pricing: Something consumers would spend without feeling burdened, and something the developers can actually make profit without needing to sell over million copies.
Something in the neighborhood of range from $10 for simple games to $25 for more compelling and involving titles would be perfect for such machine, but if they are chasing $60 game prices, this thing has failed before it even gets started, not to mention a great opportunity wasted.
Something in the neighborhood of range from $10 for simple games to $25 for more compelling and involving titles would be perfect for such machine, but if they are chasing $60 game prices, this thing has failed before it even gets started, not to mention a great opportunity wasted.
They have claimed that developers will be able to set their own prices on games (Ouya gets 30% of revenue).
MightyHedgehog
Member
I think the idea is that the pricing is up to developers as OUYA will get 30% no matter what. I think the $60 quote coincides with the talk about the hope that major console publishers will hit this platform who are accustomed to that price point on MS' and Sony's machines. I don't think they'll actually release many if any at that number.
That's kind of what confuses me, watching the video it seems the developers want it to be a revolutionary and innovative indie platform, but so many of their 'backers' seem to want it as a cheap emulation and media machine. I sense there's a disconnect between (at least some of) their customers and their vision, which is never a good thing, but it's too early to tell for sure.
Regardless, it'll be a hard sell for them to convince developers to prioritize this platform considering how lucrative other platforms like Steam and iOS are for indie devs.
Again, it's a 2 for the price of 1 in the sense that an Android port essentially will work out of the box on this, the only work required being customising the controls and potentially graphics to Ouya.
This console is what the new Commodore USA company should be making instead of Intel based hardware. A simple linux distro, which they already have, running on ARM, while charging $150 would set the world on fire.
Ouya got my money and feels more like the Commodore computers of old. Good luck before Balmer sues Ouya since it is running on Android.
Ouya got my money and feels more like the Commodore computers of old. Good luck before Balmer sues Ouya since it is running on Android.
Looking at the hardware in this thing it should be able to run Black Ops 2 with ease. Albeit a version built to take advantage of its gazillion cores.
How? Why?
How? Why?
DiscoJer
Member
Well, I think the problem with Steam is that it's hard to get on it, unless you get a lot of publicity or sales elsewhere. Sure, they announced that program to help greenlight the creme of the crop, but it's still heavily filtered.
And iOS certainly has a very high top end, that is, if you get to be an "in" game or app, you can make in huge amounts of money, it also has a very low low end. I think for a lot of middling companies, it's a strategy to simply get their games on as many platforms as possible, even different branches of Android.
Yeah, that's my feeling too. It might be completely wrong, it could end up being more like like the Coleco Adam, but who knows? Back then they mostly threw hardware against a wall and hoped something would stick.
Low cost, affordable computing with the ability to run user generated code. With Quick Office and a keyboard, a kid can do their own reports for school and a parent can compile their bills and do onlibe without a power hungry x86 computer.
In the lower economic bracket, there are families without keyboard based computers.
Imagine schools using this kind of hardware saving school districts money from running utilities and hardware maintainance costs.
Better yet, this console can encourage programming withiut using costky SDKs.
Imagine a platform like Ouya in the B.R.I.C economic climate. Millions if gamers without having to deal with costly x86 architecture and using it for general computing.
Ole Jack had something going on where Steve Jobs overlooked, mass market computing with inexpensive but usable hardware at a low cost to the user. Shame the Atari and Commodore companies stumbled while Apple and Intel rose with the side effect of costly computing and more costly maintainance, in the corporate and consumer level while shareholders got more capital through the larger price to entry.
Dreamwriter
Member
ArsTechnica said:
This actually makes me feel a lot better about the device. I know they've said that developers can choose their own price, but I hope there are at least some hard incentives to not start out too low, or maybe the device can have a separate section of their app store for "premium" games. As a large developer it just hamstrings us to be stuck at the crappy mobile prices. People talk about mobile gaming as low quality, and that's all because of the damn low prices. If nobody will buy a game for $20, then a developer can't afford to put serious money into the game's development. If people would pay reasonable prices for their games, then we'd be seeing the Capcoms, Konami's, Activisions of the world putting real effort behind development, not just paying little developers chicken feed to make a quick hacky port that sorta looks like the original.
The low prices iOS and Android games sell for now basically make the systems only good for indie developers and "freemium" games. I want real decent-budget games in the Ouya. Oh, and as for the whole hackable/piracy argument, PC is already like that, but developers make money hand-over-fist there.
Which will look worse than anything the 360 or PS3 can put out.
10-12 GFLOPS GPU vs 240GFLOPS GPU and
Having to run programs in a java VM vs Native C++ or assembly.
Because it's a console in the living room and Steam is not.
I don't see big penetration for Steam under the TV just yet, do you? If this takes off, then indies will want their games on it just so they can get the living room audience.
Interfectum
Member
Program in an engine that can release on both?
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
This is what happens when the rumoured Steambox doesn't get announced. People get into desperation mode! I GOT INTO IT DESPERATION MODE!
Bomber Bob
Banned
1) Android uses Dalvik VM not Java VM
2) The vast majority of android are written in C++ using the NDK (a tiny bit of java layer is still needed tho)
3) I love how people in this thread discussing how "OUYA is underpowered" (whaaat?? a 99$ console is underpowered??? the world will end tomorrow) and "Tegra 3 sucks" knowing jackshit about technical detail.
Yeah, people should keep their expectations in check. This is about 4 Wiis worth of performance, not comparable to 360/PS3.
Dalvik is a Java VM.
This is just wrong. Only very high-end games use the NDK.
I'm almost certain I know more about technical details than most people. Tegra 3 is a strange choice for a game platform -- it's advantage is that you get a lot of CPU performance for very cheap. If they had the budget of a "real" electronics company a custom SoC with less space dedicated to the CPU and more to the GPU would make a lot more sense.
Bomber Bob
Banned
Nope. Bytecode is different, Architecture is different (register based vs stack based). So yes, Dalvik VM != jvm.
So now games made with cocos2d-x are high-end games? lol
NDK is not only about performance but also for portability.
So true, this gen has worn out its welcome so hard. Wouldve loved to seen wat Gaben would do with a set pc platform.
That's irrelevant to the original point. The original post stated "program in a java VM vs Native C++". Dalvik is a VM that runs Java code. The architecture of the VM doesn't matter when the comparison is between no VM at all and a VM.
This one you'll really have to explain to me. How are NDK applications more portable? If anything, they'd be less portable, since they would depend on a specific (usually ARM) instruction set.
Here comes the doom and gloom already: http://www.pocketgamer.co.uk/r/Android/Ouya/feature.asp?c=43030
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Well yeah, of course the system itself is going to be a disaster. This kickstarter is mostly just interesting in that it's an indicator of how unhappy people are with the current consoles' bullshit. People are desperate for anything new, even if it's obviously going to be the Tapwave Zodiac 2.0.
A lot of that article feels like "I failed at doing something and so others will fail as well".
According to this (rather old) article the Tegra 3 costs $15-$25:
http://www.tegra3.org/tegra-3-set-for-fast-start-as-nvidia-announces-high-profits-for-q3/