Ryo Hazuki
Member
What I took away from that update is that they are removing the "Avoid This Player" system.
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Overwatch |OT3| White, White, Blue, White
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it's easy to see pharah's damage coming and shield it. she can't deal with pharah directly most of the time but she gets a lot of energy from her.
The only problem with Torb is when people play multiple Torbs. Even with a group, multi Torb can zap all of the fun out of Overwatch. The same applies to Bastion.
TheLetdown
Member
So this happened to me the other day.
OH MY GOD. I rush the table every time to try to do this.
I've been so close so many times.
You should get a free legendary skin out of it.
When I'm Tracer, I feel like I can handle Zarya's no problem. It's all about keeping distance and knowing to stop shooting when her shield is on. After that, keep harassing. The shields portion of her life drops fast, and you're one of the characters that can keep pressure to make sure she doesn't get a chance to recover them.
As for hard counters, I don't know that Zarya is the hard counter to anyone specifically. I honestly think she's closest when it comes to Mei, but Mei has enough tools at her disposal to weasel out of it. Self-heal and chill.
Oh, that I know. But Im talking about counters as in ability to kill a character quickly.
Junkrat is the same way. He's amazing for absorbing energy, but without shields she loses to him imo.
Torbjorn for sure, especially if they're dumb enough to go multi-Torbjorn. The turret is free charge, and once charged she can basically kill infinite Torbjorns and turrets. She isn't quite as good at wiping out Symmetra's crap as Winston, but when there's a combination Torb/Symmetra situation then I'll definitely switch over to Zarya.
Overall I don't often pick Zarya as a counter, I will only switch off her if I'm dealing with Reinhardt/Junkrat/sniper/pharah combinations. She's my most played character for a reason - she's usually good to have around provided there's already one other tank.
Junkrat is funny because he's such a double edged sword for Zarya. You need to ride that line between 'UNLIMITED POWER' and 'oh how the fuck did he just do 400 damage in under a second'.
Tracer is a problem for one reason - you're likely to run into Tracer either when your bubbles are on cooldown, you're ducking out of battle to recharge shields, or you are at 0 charge. But with high charge available your alt fire is just about instant death for Tracer. I've definitely been having more Tracer problems ever since the mass McCree exodus.
she is good against them specifically because she can nullify their status effects, but it's not totally one sided. Both of them are a huge problem for Graviton Surge, Mei can ice wall and Zenyatta has his ult. Discord orb is also not exactly hard for him to re-apply, and it's a big problem for any tank.
Then let me join you. I can deal with your "hollering". We played Destiny before. It's okay.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Yeah, player psychology is a really tough problem to deal with. He's right that players would much rather stomp their way to victory without effort than play close games where you lose as much as you win. I know I'm in the minority when I say I would rather be on the losing side of a lopsided match than the winning. Nothing is more boring to me than just walking the payload in as Reinhardt or Lucio and never doing anything.
If you're losing the lopsided match you don't have the expectation of winning but you feel more freedom to play new heroes or try new things. Maybe someone will have a game-changing play and suddenly you come from behind and win or put on a spirited defense for that last point. That feels way better to me than 'winning' a match where you never had to exert any effort or skill.
Illusive_Juan
Member
I posted it on the Podcast Unlocked FB group last night. Do you have that reddit link?
toastyToast
Member
Got 3 Zarya POTGs tonight
Once I learn to aim like that Korean girl its over
Once I learn to aim like that Korean girl its over
her design just isn't about killing people quickly so it's an odd question. she's good at staying with groups and saving teammates while slowly amping up until she reaches the point where you pretty much have to run or you're dead.
going by your definition she doesn't counter anyone but she's definitely very good against spammers and CC.
Looks like Hanzo's arrows, even if shot at full strength straight up, never disappear. Was wondering what the hell the defending enemy Hanzo was doing in front of our door earlier. Then the round started, I stepped out... And I died from one of the arrows coming back down. Lmao.
So the game expects me to be support, which is why when I'm not support, support is terrible.
Mossybrew
Member
It's nice to hear this acknowledged, I've been saying it for weeks. Will it get better with time and player experience? Probably a little but I've seen little progress so far. Multi-Torbs playing defense are extremely common in PS4 games. The whole strategy just turns into "is this group of random pubs going to be able to coordinate enough to deal with these turrets?" and the answer is usually no. That one character can dictate the entire pace of the game - with an AI turret no less - is just not fun.
why would lucio ever try to 1v1 mei?
Torbjorn isn't that bad even on Xbox. I was a closed beta player on PC though so have a lot of experience. People just don't want to switch to the counters and would rather whine about him. I've finally taught my friends how to counter bastion and torbjorn so much less complaining in party chat now but it seems like people here and Reddit still don't get it yet. It'll come in time. Just practice and play characters like d.va, pharah, junk rat, hell most are good counters for torbjorn.
You're playing Lucio wrong if you're trying to 1v1 mei at close range
Use Lucio's alt fire to push her back and race outta there in speed mode.
I play on PC, the trolling is not always effective.
Ya, since Zarya is my main I just pick her to start out with then switch off if Im having problems with the enemy team combination or begrudgingly switch to reinhardt if no one else picks a tank. Just wanted to know if there were some character matchups I wasnt getting right.
Reinhardt also seems problematic whenever I face up against him due to Zarya being slow as fuck making you unable to get around his shield and reinhardts charge being instant death if you dont time your shield right before he pins you.
nothing you are stating could be "solved" by any sort of MMR. What is "playing the objective"? I mean in a game sense I know what it is. A team working together to provide support to taking the objective. But let's look at it.. Say you have a Widowmaker picking off the opposing team as they leave their starting area. She is being a GREAT team player, getting high K/D. Helping keep the point, etc.
Now say you have another Widowmaker.. she's still getting a high KD. Still getting kills.. but she's not getting the important kills.. A reinhardt and junkrat still get past her, still cause pain for the team defending the point.. she gets 3-4 kills but another gets past her, now they have the objective.. etc
I mean to the best of my ability to determine.. at a technical level both players are "doing" the same thing.. Both not moving, both maintaining high KD, both "playing well". But one player is playing well in a way that is helping the team, and the other is playing well in a way that benefits the team significantly less.
We want MMR to match us up with good team members.... but really I don't see how it can. It can match us up with players around our skill level.. but it has no real way of knowing if those players are good on our team or not.
D
Deleted member 325805
Unconfirmed Member
This is a big part of the problem, some days it feels like the game will not let me win, it will find the absolute best players to put against me and then the next day it will feed me trash all night, it's always stomp or be stomped and I'm very much tired of it.
i dont think more experience will help too much. Maybe if people started to work together it will be easyer to deal with him.
But the aim on console is so much worse than on pc, so the turets auto aim and insta tracking is a bigger advantage and makes short work of people who use two seconda to turn their screen 360 degrees and comes running at it one at a time.
I never said I purposefully 1v1 Mei as Lucio. What I've found is while I'm helping buff my team in a control point as Lucio and a Mei enters, she almost ALWAYS targets me and freezes me 99% of the time even when I go into speed mode and try to get the hell out of there. Happens literally every time.
Also, I've tried alt firing her out of the way but if she's firing at you, it just doesn't work, period. You have to alt her while she's not shooting, but most of the time she is.
The thing is if MMR was as good as they claim, your team mates would take advantage of youur plays. MANY TIMES I have done great plays and have had to finish the objective myself. Even when we win its absolutely infurriating, why do I have to ult wipe the enemy team and move the payload myself?
And the problem is not Torb, it's hero stacking. Multiples of most heroes can be frustrating to play against. You really can't nerf him because he'll become completely worthless.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
where are these gaf stacks coming from and why am i never invited qq
I mean on the one hand the matchmaking is definitely working if it's keeping EVERYONE at 50-60% with little variance. But on the other hand I feel like I'm being put on teams specifically to carry them. Which I can't reasonably do on a support or Reinhardt, characters those teams won't play.
Reinhardt is absolutely the worst thing to deal with as Zarya until you're at 100 energy, then you can generally melt down the shield. But even then if his team isn't worthless they've got a Soldier, Junkrat or Hanzo standing behind that shield and they will burn down your 400 hp before you burn down that 2000. Her alt fire doesn't do shit to it so you need to be close range too.
A mistake I see a lot of other Zaryas making is using her ult when Reinhardt is still alive with an unbroken shield - might as well have not used it at all, unless your teammates are helping (yeah right). But then that leads to me sitting on a full charge for way longer than I should, or blowing it on a safe double kill instead of going for that big team wipe.
Reinhardt is absolutely the worst thing to deal with as Zarya until you're at 100 energy, then you can generally melt down the shield. But even then if his team isn't worthless they've got a Soldier, Junkrat or Hanzo standing behind that shield and they will burn down your 400 hp before you burn down that 2000. Her alt fire doesn't do shit to it so you need to be close range too.
A mistake I see a lot of other Zaryas making is using her ult when Reinhardt is still alive with an unbroken shield - might as well have not used it at all, unless your teammates are helping (yeah right). But then that leads to me sitting on a full charge for way longer than I should, or blowing it on a safe double kill instead of going for that big team wipe.
How is matchmaking supposed to know whether or not it's putting together a good team composition though? How does it know that a player isn't going to contribute to the objective? I mean from matchmaking perspective the player may never play the obj but they're still winning 50% of their games so should MMR push them into a lower tier for no reason? How is it supposed to know whether or not that player contributed to the win or not, based on obj play only? What about good snipers, or flankers that don't touch the obj as much as someone like Rein or Lucio? Should they get dropped into a lower MMR because they "don't play the objective"? How do you know people aren't trying to get to the objective but just suck or are getting outplayed? How is matchmaking supposed to know that a player isn't going to try out a new hero for that match or if they're even going to be playing heroes that got them to that MMR ranking in the first place? You could get perfect, ideal, teammates that are all at high MMR level but two of them could be trying different heroes for the first time. How is matchmaking supposed to account for that? By asking you to take a survey on what you're going to do before assembling the teams?
Alt fire, hit your speed boost and get away. Come on man you're playing Lucio, you can't complain about one of the worst characters while playing one of the best.
He freeze hit box is actually very wonky. They is a youtube video demonstrating it.
Interfectum
Member
Yes but everyone has this same story. You are thinking about the few great plays you had and saying that is the entire Overwatch experience. I'm betting 99% of the time there are people pushing the payload with you or are keeping people away from you as you are pushing the payload.
Too many people on here think they are the best of the best while everyone else are drooling idiots shooting at walls.
Sir Blaming
Member
Actually, it was another guy getting the ball into the basket just like you!
well yeah, things start to blend together sometimes.
Mossybrew
Member
I can only speak for my own experience but I haven't had any specific problems with multiples of other characters. Toblerone is a whole other level.
Tracer, Genji, Pharah and Lucio are the ones I rarely manage to freeze as Mei.
but i am the best
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
On kaplan's post about matchmaking TL;DR (couple of my takeaways):
W/L ratio is not used to calculate your MMR or used to match you against other players (no forced 50/50).
How much your ranking changes after a match considers a lot of factors, including your skill with the heroes you used, the map, the side you played on, etc. drawn on from their statistics to sort of figure out your % chance to win. So if you had played bastion on offense and bastion has a 10% win rate on offense, then you have a lower MMR loss after you lose than if you had played reinhardt who has a 70% winrate - made up stats).
Avoid this player has already been disabled from matchmaking (no longer does anything) and will be removed from the UI in a coming update.
edit:
Also later on he remarks that instead of using avoid this player to avoid toxic players, you should report them. I think the avoid this player was supposed to be used in that fashion but people were using it to avoid actually good players and that was bogging down matchmaking times a lot.
W/L ratio is not used to calculate your MMR or used to match you against other players (no forced 50/50).
How much your ranking changes after a match considers a lot of factors, including your skill with the heroes you used, the map, the side you played on, etc. drawn on from their statistics to sort of figure out your % chance to win. So if you had played bastion on offense and bastion has a 10% win rate on offense, then you have a lower MMR loss after you lose than if you had played reinhardt who has a 70% winrate - made up stats).
Avoid this player has already been disabled from matchmaking (no longer does anything) and will be removed from the UI in a coming update.
edit:
Also later on he remarks that instead of using avoid this player to avoid toxic players, you should report them. I think the avoid this player was supposed to be used in that fashion but people were using it to avoid actually good players and that was bogging down matchmaking times a lot.
if a mei can walk into your team on an objective and singlehandedly assassinate you without dying then you have bigger problems
Yeah, it's not like there are replays to watch other players' perspectives. You just have your own. I've joined friends' games and spectated the first match before and heard them complain to me about a certain player and I'll go watch that player and everything is normal. It sucks when everything doesn't synergize and you don't win or your team gets outplayed but people are so slow to give credit and quick to blame other players.
In this topic...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1236924
There's a video that shows all character portraits up top with HP bars. Is this just for competitive play? Or is this something I can add myself. I like the look.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1236924
There's a video that shows all character portraits up top with HP bars. Is this just for competitive play? Or is this something I can add myself. I like the look.
LucidMomentum
Member
Nice, nice, noooooo.
I enjoyed removing people I did not enjoy playing with or who were jerks. But with such a large player base, it didn't happen often.
I wish Dota 2's MMR system wasn't just a flat Win / Loss condition, as they already take more than that into account when you play your placement matches.
Can't wait to see how OW does it.
toastyToast
Member
the glass window
that's for casters / spectators
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