orthodoxy1095
Banned
Oh Lord.
Double Winston can already be an annoyance. That's actually when my team ran double Reap last night, to do with him lol.
If they nerf Reap, it would become unbearable.
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Overwatch |OT3| White, White, Blue, White
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Double Winston can already be an annoyance. That's actually when my team ran double Reap last night, to do with him lol.
If they nerf Reap, it would become unbearable.
chrominance
Member
Fuck it. I think I'm done. I should just uninstall this game. Every time I go in, it's another invitation to lose ranks and lose games and feel bad about myself. Fuck you, Blizzard.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
You do you, but I wouldn't let the ranks and comp situation get you down.
We all know it's borked, and any player with a worthwhile opinion knows that rank is basically meaningless right now.
chrominance
Member
It's not like I ENJOY going 12-29 since placement. Quick Play is full of idiots and Competitive is just an excuse to have people beat the shit out of me repeatedly for no reason. What do I play then, practice vs. AI?
Once again, hero stacking is not a problem. It's an intended design in the game. They have made that very clear and it is something I agree 100% with. Balance will never be perfect with 21 characters (and more in future), but the idea of the game is to be fun for people who want to try different things, and teams who want to try different combinations. Removing stacking limits choices. That's boring.
Pretty much this. It's going to take 3 or more season for Competitive Mode to be something meaningful.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I dunno.
We got stomped last night, like some of the worst games I've ever had. I'm talking, we could hardly make it out of spawn and only moved the payload 60 feet kinda bad.
But playing with GAF people and laughing about it made it worthwhile. We were in hysterics after the match and I still had fun.
But if that's not fun to you, I can definitely understand that.
There's something up with Competitive that makes GAFers lose their wits and pull weird double/triple stack character tactics that never work.
All is fine with Quick Play and I've seen people figure out counters but there's something about Competitive that's making people lose creativity.
All is fine with Quick Play and I've seen people figure out counters but there's something about Competitive that's making people lose creativity.
For consoles, I think hero stacking is a problem. There's certain stacks, like Multi Torb and now Multi Reaper, that are easy to pull off, yet frustrating to play against. And these players don't do it because it is fun, they do it because it works most of the time.
Double+ Reaper teams on KotH definitely works (at least on console) and if anyone knows a counter to them I'd love to hear it.
*junkrat giggling in the distance*
I'm talking weirder ones like double Torb on escort defense or quad D.Va on escort offense. We've never played like this and now we pull off these peculiar hail mary plays.
Also, yes: Mercy+Lucio is very potent. I love playing on teams with it.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Sounds like part of the game wasn't designed for consoles in mind then. Tough. If Blizzard continues to address stuff differently between PC and consoles, eventually the console Overwatch will just because like console TF2, lagging behind features, gimped because of limitations of consoles and player expectations, and the userbase will just die off.
I guess most people don't play competitive games and enjoy losing. The "I have fun just playing games even if I constantly get stomped" mentality really isn't prevalent in most people IMO.
Junkrat works pretty well against Reapers in KOTH maps. Pharah obviously also on the maps where the cap point has air space.
Or you could mirror their team and stack up on Reapers as well.
I think the problem atm is that now that McCree got nerfed, there's not that many anti tanks. Reaper is the easiest and probably now the best one and that's why he is getting more playtime. Roadhog has been gaining playtime too as he is pretty good against most tanks even though he's a tank himself. They could make the anti tank situation more diverse by buffing Zenyatta as he has potential to be a great tank killer.
Yep. I don't mind stacking. I mind when there's no counter. Multiple Reapers on Nepal has been a nightmare. Only time I wanted to throw my controller.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Console player here; can't fully agree. Torbjörn is getting nerfed. As Blizzards continue to balance the game with platform-specific patches, these things will cease to be a problem. Multi Reaper on KOTH is easily countered by going with multiple Reapers yourself. Soldier, Pharah and many other offensive heroes also work depending on the level. Hopefully McCree will get a slight reboost, making him a viable counter again.
To be fair, multiple Reapers counter multiple Reapers. It may sound boring, but it's the best counter and it does work.
But yeah, I do think this will be a non-issue once the game has been out for a while and has been balanced better. For now though, I agree, it's a bit of an issue.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I played some comp games solo and lost and it absolutely sucked hard. My point was that with friends though, I can find something enjoyable about pretty poopy situations.
If other people can't do that, that's fine.
Oh we've been countering with MORE Reapers. It's not fun though.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Lmao, what a shitty attitude.
The mentality of "every class has a counter" really only works if the team you're playing on is really good at multiple classes. If someone has 60 hours played as Reaper, they're going to beat the team that has people that don't main Reaper and they try to switch to Reapers to counter. I guess most casual players have a handful of characters they're good at, and if they have to switch to a class they're inexperienced with in order to counter, the counter won't be very effective.
Well, for me personally it's not about winning or losing in particular, but what happens during a match. It's not black and white, and there are certainly times where it is NOT fun just playing the game. On a normal game where I'm playing with friends, we work together, we try stuff, it might work it might not, we might win, we might not, I absolutely have fun, and there's no bitterness in losing. But sometimes you're in a match which is just infuriating for one reason or another. Sometimes the team combination is bad, but somehow no one wants to talk during the game anymore or change roles, sometimes friends start arguing with one another during the game and after the game, sometimes the enemy team is working on a whole other level and no matter what you do it feels worthless. Those games tend to be psychologically bad, and it's probably good to stop and take a break after one or two of those.
It's not an "attitude", I'm just saying what you know is true. If such balance gaps exist so early in the game's lifespan, what's going to happen moving forward? The Overwatch team isn't huge, they're not going to dedicate double the manpower to maintain totally separate tracks. They might want to, and have the best of intentions now, but let's be real.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Reaper was always meant to be anti-tank. I dunno why people are surprised by this.
And if you want to counter Reaper, pick more offensive tanks and not soakers like Roadhog or Reinhardt.
And if you want to counter Reaper, pick more offensive tanks and not soakers like Roadhog or Reinhardt.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
All of these "stacked characters" also happen to be the easiest characters to play. Doesn't take more than 10 minutes to learn how to play Reaper or Torbjörn. This goes for most characters, really, if not all, more or less. Characters take zero time to learn. I honestly don't see this as an issue. A player who has only played Reaper for 15 mins can do just as well as one who has played him for "60 hours"; assuming they're equally skilled in general.
it's weird that a game that's supposed to encourage hero swapping punishes you for hero swapping(ult charge)
like if you want to make me lose 50% of my ult charge so i don't 'change for ults' (which i cant see having that big of an effect but whatever) then do that. don't just take my whole ult. otherwise i'm going to be tempted to sit on a character who doesn't fit the comp at that time because i want to use my ult before i switch
like if you want to make me lose 50% of my ult charge so i don't 'change for ults' (which i cant see having that big of an effect but whatever) then do that. don't just take my whole ult. otherwise i'm going to be tempted to sit on a character who doesn't fit the comp at that time because i want to use my ult before i switch
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I disagree with that completely.
A good Reaper is going to be much more of a threat than some noob named xXDarkLordXx starting with Reap for the first time. Even if they're just as "generally" skilled in the game type.
Torb is fairly easy too, but there's still a decent gap between some jackass who sits behind their turret hammering it and someone who properly roams and causes havoc.
The problem is that because they are easy enough that most can be decent, stacking them can basically paper over the weaknesses and cause massive problems.
That doesn't make sense. A Reaper with 60 hours knows where all the medpacks are, knows the maps well, knows who they can kill with how many shots to get the heal. A reaper with 15 minutes knows what their abilities are and possibly what they do.
More Fun To Compute
Member
If you want to do well in the Reaper/Roadhog meta without joining in then learn Hanzo. Aw yeah.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Junkrat, the thing is you literally have to be a suicidal player
That's what I do, most Reapers lose their shit when my Junkrat is aggressive
General pub Junkrat just stay mid and lob like buffoons and just getting the hit marker to appear to tell them they are lobbing grenades in the right direction
For me as a Reaper that's almost a free kill cause they go tone deaf to their surrounding
Now when I'm Junkrat and Reaper around, you have to have situational awareness of dropping your trap near you and bait him
I make my Junkrat lobs, Reaper shorty/steps/laugh trigger me that he is near
Either my trap catches them, which triggers their shadow, 85% of the time they retreat, I chase, get kill
15%, rush in, lob grenade direct hit, absorb damage to myself, just need 1 grenade to land then quickly combo wombo off to tripmine, which funny enough sends you flying away, killing them in the process
Pharah has the distance, reach to clip Reaper health and chase him away, most Pharah fly directionally that gives away where they will land
Good Reapers know how to chase and tag Pharah out of the sky
She always has to have high vantage point or importantly know how to shoot her rockets from afar yet trigger the explosion diagonally to where the Reaper is (almost shooting in angle, slicing), her knockback helps her a ton, yet most will not use it unless they knock someone off
Mei is just BAE, she wrecks Reapers
Health enough to survive the Onslaught, freeze, headshot combo works wonders on Reapers
The wall can be a deterrent, to block off a Reaper retreat, I use it when a Reaper goes 1 v 1 with my Mei, just as they know they lost 50% health and are like 2 seconds away from Icicle death, they shadow retreat, ice wall those fucks, they have to waste 2-3 seconds going around, losing their ability
Freeze, kill
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
I still stand by what I said.
This is not the difference between a good Torbjörn player and a bad Torbjörn player. This is the difference between a good Overwatch player and a bad Overwatch player. Same goes for Reaper.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
What.
So bad and good Torb players don't exist? That's nonsense. You could make that argument about most characters then.
Playing Junkrat like a crazy person is the best. I've seen people sit back and coordinate bombs, and do well and die less than me. But there's no way they are having as much fun as an aggressive crazy Junkrat.
He's the best when you want to play a brainless fun match on quick play.
DiabolicalBagel
Member
All this anti-hanzo talk makes me sad. It's not the character that's the issue, it's the terrible players choosing him.
I play Hanzo when I want to guarantee a defense win. Play aggressively, on the front lines, make good use of his mobility, and actually play the objective and you'll end up with a win.
Maybe it's different on consoles where aiming is an issue, but certainly on PC Hanzo can be pretty devastating when there's a good player wielding him.
Maybe I don't notice the issue so much because I'll either be playing something like Genji or Zarya and being super aggressive upfront and therefore don't notice the lacking Hanzo, or I'll be playing Hanzo myself and being the exception that is actually useful.
Characters aren't the issue, it's the players that are attracted to playing them. I can guarantee that bad Hanzo you run into would be just as useless playing another character.
I play Hanzo when I want to guarantee a defense win. Play aggressively, on the front lines, make good use of his mobility, and actually play the objective and you'll end up with a win.
Maybe it's different on consoles where aiming is an issue, but certainly on PC Hanzo can be pretty devastating when there's a good player wielding him.
Maybe I don't notice the issue so much because I'll either be playing something like Genji or Zarya and being super aggressive upfront and therefore don't notice the lacking Hanzo, or I'll be playing Hanzo myself and being the exception that is actually useful.
Characters aren't the issue, it's the players that are attracted to playing them. I can guarantee that bad Hanzo you run into would be just as useless playing another character.
If you can freeze the Reaper that is. Encountering a Reaper in close will melt your HP, so you have to Iceblock fast. If he has his Wraith Form ready at that point you are done with Mei.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
How is it nonsense exactly? You've made zero arguments for what you're saying.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Because, a good Overwatch player is not going to be good at every character. A pro Overwatch player might be good at most every character, but most of us aren't pros. Therefore good Reapers and bad Reapers exist.
You haven't made arguments either. Just declarative statements without evidence.
It's true that a lot of Hanzo players would be worthless with other characters as well.
I still think he's close to a bottom tier character, and he's about the last character I would pick.
When people shit on Hanzo, we're not shitting on the character. We're shitting on what it represents. For whatever reason terrible players love selecting Hanzo and being terrible at it. If they played sone other character they would probably be terrible too, but at least be forced to be part of the firefight and can be supported by the team. Hanzo and Widowmakers are completely useless when played by bad players, especially on Attack. But Hanzo is a far more popular pick by bad players in general. So when people see a random playing Hanzo, it is safe to assume that will be a handicap!
Orochinagis
Member
got placed 50l is that good or bad?
optimus8936
Banned
A bad torb just sits back and let's his turret do all the dirty work, while a good torb is in the front lines throwing armor around and grabbing scrap. There's a HUGE difference between a good torb and a bad torb. A good torb can actually be insanely useful if they are doing their job, which is armor.
LonelyGreyWolf
Banned
Alright.
Let me put it this way. You're playing against a Torbjörn player with ten hours of experience with the character, and in another game a Reaper player with ten hours of experience. You've never played either character before, but you've played Overwatch, you're familiar with the controls, the levels, the rules etc.
How much time would you need to spend on the characters to be on their level? And explain why you would need that much time, i.e. what it is you need to learn/practice.
I'm just going to copy and paste what I wrote because I've already answered this:
Good I think. I got 47.
optimus8936
Banned
It would take almost just as long, because every character has those small adjustments you can make that you never notice until you play them for a few hours and you start to understand the character more. The best way to get good with characters is simple, practice, lots of it. No character can be picked up and instantly be god like. That's just nonsensical to think that way.
Like learning who he counters, who counters him, the best times to use ults, when to wraith, when to teleport, etc.
For instance, I've put 10 hours into Roadhog, and there is still so much I can improve. Characters take time to learn and get good with.
Darryl M R
Member
New OT soon.
I want to make sure I'm using Genji correctly.
I try to get behind enemies line and make them chase me in their spawn area. Getting a kill is never my real focus unless I know that I'm a hard counter (deflect on Bastion).
Also geez I wonder if I will get 300 coins for a gold skin.
I want to make sure I'm using Genji correctly.
I try to get behind enemies line and make them chase me in their spawn area. Getting a kill is never my real focus unless I know that I'm a hard counter (deflect on Bastion).
Also geez I wonder if I will get 300 coins for a gold skin.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
To be a useful Torb at a higher level of play?
You'd need to run him through a decent tour of all the maps against a variety of comps so you can learn the best turret spots. I've played him for seven hours and I'm still learning new spots each game. Or you'd be relying on your teammates to tell your the best turret placements, advice I've had to give before.
Reaper I can't really do more than guesstimate. I've watched teammates who were cutting through enemies as a Tracer or Roadhog suck when they play a Reaper trying to counter a pick. And when I played him in Beta, I found him more difficult to play properly than people seemed to indicate would be case. Like I indicated, he's an easy to play, tougher to master kinda character.
Lessons from one character don't necessarily apply to another.
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