Garrett Hawke
Member
In that case, it seems quite theoretical. Hm.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
- Start date
- Status
Nocturnowl
Member
It always amazes me when I give Junkrat a whirl just how fast you can get that wheel, it's pretty ridiculous and of course he ain't the only character who can swiftly earn a tide shifting ability.
Give me a monogrammed red tie for Winston please
Well I can't say I've suffered the serve issues but everything else about sudden losing streak on PS4 sounds about right here so I totally get your frustration.
It's like yeah I'm not the best by any stretch but it's like "what's with these teams?!", it's not even so much that I've got weak teammates, just that the opposing team always gets whipped up as a group of simply stronger players (and to rub it in said teams were often "the underdog").
Even the few I did win yesterday were pretty one sided stomps, I miss actually competitive games.
Hopefully today will be better.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Sounds more like they need to make leaving penalties harsher rather than not dropping tiers.
Yep lik can grab you for next group. Last 2 times we had full groups actually, that's why I didn't ask <_>
THIS. Pharah is so OP on console because aiming is harder, theres no hard counter. Hell, most of my time I kill her with reaper waiting for her to land.
THIS. Pharah is so OP on console because aiming is harder, theres no hard counter. Hell, most of my time I kill her with reaper waiting for her to land.
Dead Prince
Banned
you just have to circle them and melee. basically force them to constantly have to 360 but also try not to rush straight into them because they'll most likely have the cursor lined up with your head. but i did have a game similar to yours. i forgot who was chasing me but i was like. you basically gave up the point chasing me so i sped to the point lol
It's a lashing out really, some players prefer systems where it doesnt feel like they are being dragged to hell or told they belong somewhere they feel like they don't, and that's totally valid, it's up in the air whether pacifying that feeling is necesary in a competitive mode tho.
That's why I said they should tweak it. Make it to where you rank up and down within that tier. Rank up enough and you go on to the next tier. You cannot be demoted out of your current tier. Something like that.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
But then you might have people who don't belong in that tier clogging up the bottom and still getting matched to games where their skills might be roo low for.
divisionbyzorro
Member
And Hanzo mains.
Ultimately, the problem is that the lower levels are filled with two types of players: players who want to get better and are trying to learn, and players who will never get better because they won't learn. It's exceedingly frustrating to be the former and constantly have to interact with the latter in a competitive context. It's not really a solvable problem.
I've been between 50-55 this season. I can't imagine how frustrating the 40s must be.
and what happens if a player gets the god tier other player RNG and gets paired up with a group of really good players, moves up a rank, and now is stuck in a rank he doesnt deserve to be in. She'll just be stuck their in a tier they didnt deserve.
There's no perfect system in place, I think the current system works because of how simple it is. This game just has a shit playerbase, especially those in the lower tiers. All I can say is play with people who are in higher ranks. The quality of matches will probably increase heavily
And im all for with punishing quitters more heavily.
There's no perfect system in place, I think the current system works because of how simple it is. This game just has a shit playerbase, especially those in the lower tiers. All I can say is play with people who are in higher ranks. The quality of matches will probably increase heavily
And im all for with punishing quitters more heavily.
The actual solution for players feeling wronged by the ranked system is an unranked queue that uses competitive rules, which i dont doubt is in development. The idea that you get a cushion where you cant derank really isnt conducive w/ a competitive mode. They can improve on the metrics that contribute to rank gain/loss for sure, but the woes will still be there and are an inextricable part of the mode/game, like it is what it is u kno
The way these tier schemes usually work is that they are still, though you don't see it, abstracting an ELO system. Nothing changes except you're less certain of where you are and you feel less frustrated over seeing your rank go down. You'll still be matched with flamers and bads and leavers.
Frankly, I prefer raw ELO. Anything else is just handholding "everyone gets to feel special" nonsense. I wouldn't be opposed to harsher punishments for poor behavior, and I think the rating rewards formula can still use tweaking, but this is a community problem that can't be really solved by changing what the rankings look like.
Frankly, I prefer raw ELO. Anything else is just handholding "everyone gets to feel special" nonsense. I wouldn't be opposed to harsher punishments for poor behavior, and I think the rating rewards formula can still use tweaking, but this is a community problem that can't be really solved by changing what the rankings look like.
FallingEdge
Member
There is no wronged by the ranked system. You are where you are at because you are at that skill level. Get better and carry yourself out.
LordAmused
Member
I was ranked 49 after my placement matches, was able to get a few victories then it all went downhill to 41 and I rarely felt so lonely in my life. As a Mercy main, I could just feel the salt flowing through my veins. Then I got up to 50 after a very good chain of 15-20 victories. Standing at 47 right now and I hope to never go back down to low 40's again. I won't hesitate to click "Uninstall Game" this time.
divisionbyzorro
Member
They really, really need to implement a "quick group-up" feature, actually. I've had some comp games where my team had a bunch of chill players who were encouraging, did call outs, and played well together. I don't want to have to friend them and manage that over time - I'd just like to keep that group together and queue back up again.
Garrett Hawke
Member
They said they're working on exactly that
Yeah i think this makes total sense for a shooter, esp. since they include individual performance in the calculation
This is really the biggest problem with Overwatch Competitive. You never know who you'll be matched up with (unless you're in a group) and since Overwatch is a team based game, being matched with bad players almost always ensures your ranking going down, which for some can be frustrating,
Dead Prince
Banned
solo Q i prefer to be grouped with people who can carry me.
we encountered 4 quitters in 2 matches. totally screwed over the enemy teams cuz we were winning. Kor thought it was weird as well.
i think quitting needs to cause instant 30 min cooldown. i don't even care if they have bad connections.
I think aiming is about as good as you can get without ADS. What really makes hitting anything so difficult is how fast-paced the game is and how agile most of the heroes are.
I think I'm sitting at 66-44-100. Anything lower is pretty much out of the question and I might go a bit higher still.
Wouldnt really say it's a problem per se, like the implication here is that the player is some shining star held back by their ppl. I think the key thing here to consider is the ease in which a player can carry a game.
For example, ones shitty environment at a certain rank should be true across the board at that particular rank (not saying that all players at a rank are equal, but that if we associate a rank w/ shit there should be a high chance that there is shit on the other team). In mobas, which are heavy in terms of player responsibility and team play, there is a certain extent in which you can carry a game (that is, you can do your job and more than counterparts on the other team). The ability to carry in a shooter plays an even bigger role, like if you're the shit it really should make a key difference in the game. The ability to carry a game where you are better than your rank is pretty high, not to mention the ability to communicate, switch roles, etc.
The ability to rank up and down kind of hinges on this. Naturally ppl will focus on games that were difficult for them to carry rather than games where they were carried tho
Importantly, personal performance is included in the calculation w/r/t points lost and gained, hard to really talk about it since it isnt transparent, but i went 8-2 in placements and got 57 while a friend went 7-3 and got 61, and it felt totally deserved.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Some heroes, by their nature, simply can't carry.
this game also is not about carrying. It's very difficult to carry teams on your back in this game unless you are surely elite at the game.
TF2 I could carry teams on my back constantly towards wins, but you had much better movements options, and TTK was a lot less in general, along with the obvious thing of no Ults
divisionbyzorro
Member
I think you can, but you have to be at least 20+ rank higher than the average to do it. I guarantee you that if you put Seagull on a rank 40 smurf, he'll win 90% of his matches.
Alright, now that I finally got a job, I thought I'd reward myself with a nice new game. As I'm really sick of Battlefront, I need a new go-to game anyway, and I certainly didn't fail to notice the popularity of Overwatch. From what I heard, it should be relatively easy to get into it, right?
Just one question: How fun is it if I intend to primarily play with randoms and/or without a microphone?
Just one question: How fun is it if I intend to primarily play with randoms and/or without a microphone?
it's fun. lots of people play solo without chatting. it depends how much you care about winning.
Nocturnowl
Member
I tend to notice a lot of people choosing to ignore firing at Pharah on console even when she's buzzing around persistently raining rockets because it can be such a ballache to actually hit her, definitely get a feeling from some of "ehhh someone else will do it".
Then there's me failing to hit any orbs as Zenny despite giving Pharah my full attention, my struggle accuracy as of late.
Oddly Reaper players are some of the few who might actually pop some shots at her, at least the remnants of shotgun scatter might hit no matter how minimal the damage I guess.
Both are fun imo, what system are you going to play on? PC is fine since you can just type and console literally no one talks so you should be fine
It's still fun but you'll run into pockets of frustration if you are really competitive. I caved and have used the mic that came with ps4 once in a group so far. "There's a reaper behind us" vs your whole team being wiped by a reaper. I still play the game 90% of the time without a mic, mostly with one friend who doesn't have a mic either, and it's still fun. Getting rid of hero stacking for ranked mode should help a lot for non-mic people as you won't have to make on the fly massive team composition changes.
And this is also a huge problem. The randomness of how much you gain/lose. I've had games where i lost but got in the voting at the end of a match and still lost more rank then when i played worse and lost.
- Does winning/losing as underdog affect my rank in a bigger way when i'm not the underdog?
- How big is the impact on gains regarding my personal performance? (healing/dmg and stuff)
- Does being in a team vs solo people affect your gains/losses?
- Does for example winning rounds in KOTH maps affect gains or is it just the same as if you would go 3-0?
And there's quite a lot more things that would need clarifying. I really hope they do change the system for the next season.
Yeah id love for things to be more transparent cuz im curious about it and like thinking about systems like this (this is the first team game that ive played where personal performance is included in the rating instead of just straight w/l), but i mean i also understand that it's a conscious design thing that blizzard wants
Kor of Memory
Member
Dat feeling when you just finished a game of KotH on Lijang, had a Lucio on your team the whole game, and you had Gold for Healing when you played a Bastion for 45 seconds to counter the double Winston...
Comp is the definition of shitty playerbases
Welcome to popular games. Get good on your own is my truest advice. You can only improve yourself for the day when you run into 5 competent teammates and run with them and just drastically rise in rank.
That's what I usually do.
Minus Gears 3. I carried hard in Gears 3. Always carry in that game.
Welcome to popular games. Get good on your own is my truest advice. You can only improve yourself for the day when you run into 5 competent teammates and run with them and just drastically rise in rank.
That's what I usually do.
Minus Gears 3. I carried hard in Gears 3. Always carry in that game.
Exactly. I can only play support in Ranked and looking at my stats over at Overbuff, I'm a good Mercy/Lucio. But there's only so much I can do as a support if the rest of my team have no DPS.
What the... How is that even possible?
I don't know. I'd say Lucio is one of the closest things to a carry hero in the game.
Supports have great tempo swinging abilities but ofc dont carry a game the way a nonstop hs mcree does, big difference between a good/bad support ult but not really something that you need too much practice to get good at. Should def try to branch out tho, cant imagine supporting every game
Really? Yeah, he can help a bad team, but can he carry the entire team? Unless you're playing against an equally bad team, maybe, but otherwise you're going to have a rough time trying to carry your entire team.
I have a disability that makes it hard to aim, so I tend to stick with support because it is the only class I'm really good at. I do branch out to other heroes like Reinhardt or Winston, but I don't feel I'm that good enough with them to play rank.
Kor of Memory
Member
I'm a little miffed. Usually the team averages are 1 or 2 levels off, which is fine.
I just played a game with my team average at 67, and the enemy team average at 72.
That actually a big difference, and we felt it the entire match as well...
If anything it's incredibly demoralizing right off the bat.
I just played a game with my team average at 67, and the enemy team average at 72.
That actually a big difference, and we felt it the entire match as well...
If anything it's incredibly demoralizing right off the bat.
Yeah you can still get some crazy rank loss even at 3+ level differences, feels bad.
Lucio's survivability and mobility compared to Mercy coupled with his healing lets worse teammates make a lot of mistakes and still survive.
But that doesn't help when no one on your team can get a single elimination or marches into a Torb turret/Bastion ever single time.
In that situation, there is no carry hero. You're still playing 6 vs 1 when it's that bad. Like I can temporarily stop a cart with Torbjorn, I can harass and kill healers on a payload with Genji in an unbalanced match but no hero can stop a steamroll when your teammates don't take advantage.
As someone who plays Pharah, this is only true up to a certain rank on Competitive. When Team rank started to encroach into high 50s, more and more people are countering with Soldier 76, D.Va or another Pharah.
I'm currently 62 and the days of just fluttering around raining rockets without punishment is becoming uncommon. If it's not another Pharah coming after me, it's a Soldier 76 or a Reaper waiting for me to land. I've even seen D.Va's flying up and ramming me and taking shots as she falls. (I immediately incorporated that D.Va tactic!)
And that's a problem a lot of people are having when solo queuing, especially if you have the misfortune of falling below the 40s in Comp.
- Status