oh man reaper the king of carrying in open fields.
(Lucio is harder than a DPS but plenty have done it all the way to 70s)
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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo
- Thread starter GraveRobberX
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oh man reaper the king of carrying in open fields.
(Lucio is harder than a DPS but plenty have done it all the way to 70s)
Yeah, if you're in the 40/50 range and think you're good enough to get out, learn a carry and force your way out. You're not doing it on Lucio. Once you get to a point where the DPS carries are better than you or at least good enough, then you pick Lucio.
It's not that it's not a team game with different roles to play. It's just at lower ranks the carries are going to be less consistent. That's why you learn how to carry yourself a bit until you don't need to. Or you duo queue with somebody that can carry.
It's not that it's not a team game with different roles to play. It's just at lower ranks the carries are going to be less consistent. That's why you learn how to carry yourself a bit until you don't need to. Or you duo queue with somebody that can carry.
This. It's so easy!! I picked up Roadhog and Genji and immediately started carrying teams!!/s
Yeah yeah, thanks for the sarcasm.
I got it, I'm bad at the game, you're good.
yeah it seems pretty rough at the 40s
w/r/t medals, try to focus less on outputting good numbers since you seem alright at that, but instead on killing/healing the right people at the right time. for example, if you find that fights are dragging on (i assume they kind of do at lower levels since aim should be worse) then killing healers is reeaaaly effective, since their role in this case is making up for ppl's mistakes and their mistakes will count a lot more w/ the healer dead
once you arent getting golds consistently, focus on that again
w/r/t medals, try to focus less on outputting good numbers since you seem alright at that, but instead on killing/healing the right people at the right time. for example, if you find that fights are dragging on (i assume they kind of do at lower levels since aim should be worse) then killing healers is reeaaaly effective, since their role in this case is making up for ppl's mistakes and their mistakes will count a lot more w/ the healer dead
once you arent getting golds consistently, focus on that again
Competitive today has been such a cointoss, you win one match and lose really hard the next. We won a 6-4 Volskaya match because in the end we got our act together. And i also met a Bastion that doesn't notice i'm healing him and runs away in panicmode instead of firing back.
It's been a ride
It's been a ride
Dead Prince
Banned
fuck you blizzard. i'm tired of this server closing due to error. shit. was winning the rank match and boom hanzo'ed
Yeah, if you're in the 40/50 range and think you're good enough to get out, learn a carry and force your way out. You're not doing it on Lucio. Once you get to a point where the DPS carries are better than you or at least good enough, then you pick Lucio.
Yes that seems to exactly fit the experience I've had so far wit competitive and what makes sense to me.
I'll maybe come back for season 2 and do this, if the alternative for sudden death Blizzard thought of isn't as terrible.
It's just actually quite sad to me to have to do this to enjoy this mode at first (until I rank up), because I think filling roles, being flexible, and switching heroes is the core of what makes Overwatch fun for me.
I couldn't get into a game and always pick McCree for example, I'd get bored really quickly.
Yeah yeah, thanks for the sarcasm.
I got it, I'm bad at the game, you're good.
I think our issue resides more with the fact that you're blatantly refusing to listen to any of what people are saying. You're making generalizations about the higher ranks, which many of us are, and many of us got to not doing the things you're describing at all. Adding to this, there's some heavy implications our effort wasn't really...well, "deserved", unlike yours which deserves to place you higher regardless of who you play. It doesn't really set up replies which are going to make you happy, unless you want us all to say something along the lines of "you really do deserve to be a higher rank and we only got to our ranks by teaming up and abusing characters who are easy to win with", one of which we don't know anything about, and one of which we completely disagree with due to our own experiences.
edit: re above, you don't need to always pick McCree, we've said this a lot...
Vault Dweller 111
Member
You did start this by saying that we aren't actually deserving of the rank we have and just got really lucky and are great with McCree or Genji (which still isn't true) so yes the dog piling and snark isn't needed but you did bring some of it on yourself.Yeah yeah, thanks for the sarcasm.
I got it, I'm bad at the game, you're good.
If you really want a team then plenty of 40's and 50's guys are looking in this thread.
*beaten badly
Yeah yeah, thanks for the sarcasm.
I got it, I'm bad at the game, you're good.
Don't call yourself bad :<
The way solo q works is just that there usually needs to be somebody getting a carry going because of the lesser coordination. So people just learn a carry so they can be more consistent in getting it going.
If you have somebody that can get the carry going then you don't need to worry about it as much though.
Well, I still think that any matchmaking system with solo queuers relies heavily on the luck of the draw.
I'm not saying you don't deserve your high ranks, I'm saying it probably was easier to get it by perfecting your play as a carry hero (for those of you who had to solo queue all their matches, which I highly doubt many of you did), and just disregard the whole team comp aspect of the game.
I'm not saying you don't deserve your high ranks, I'm saying it probably was easier to get it by perfecting your play as a carry hero (for those of you who had to solo queue all their matches, which I highly doubt many of you did), and just disregard the whole team comp aspect of the game.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
There is no magical problem where your team always sucks and the enemy team is always better. If that was true everyone would be falling in rank and not staying the same or moving up. Averaged out, the enemy team has as many bad plays/players as your team, you're just not in a position to notice them like you are with your teammates. When your team screws up it's their fault obviously, but when the enemy team screws up it's usually interpreted as you or your team outplaying them and not remembered for what it really was.
Plus memory bias means that we remember negative events much more than we remember positive ones. I tested this one night by marking down whenever my team stomped and whenever I got stomped. At the end of the night it was equal even though I was convinced that I got stomped more often.
The problem does exist in Quick Match however because you can get stuck playing several matches with player teams that are not balanced. The system eventually tries to shuffle players around to compensate or it forces everyone to re-queue, but it is true that you could play more unbalanced matches in that mode then balanced ones if you do not leave games before those safeguards kick in.
Team composition in this game is not flexible in a competitive setting. There are heroes/compositions that are leagues better than others and you put yourself at disadvantage by not using them. Zarya/Rein/Lucio/Zen/DPS/DPS is basically the standard I see in most games.
Plus memory bias means that we remember negative events much more than we remember positive ones. I tested this one night by marking down whenever my team stomped and whenever I got stomped. At the end of the night it was equal even though I was convinced that I got stomped more often.
The problem does exist in Quick Match however because you can get stuck playing several matches with player teams that are not balanced. The system eventually tries to shuffle players around to compensate or it forces everyone to re-queue, but it is true that you could play more unbalanced matches in that mode then balanced ones if you do not leave games before those safeguards kick in.
Team composition in this game is not flexible in a competitive setting. There are heroes/compositions that are leagues better than others and you put yourself at disadvantage by not using them. Zarya/Rein/Lucio/Zen/DPS/DPS is basically the standard I see in most games.
Don't call yourself bad :<
The way solo q works is just that there usually needs to be somebody getting a carry going because of the lesser coordination. So people just learn a carry so they can be more consistent in getting it going.
If you have somebody that can get the carry going then you don't need to worry about it as much though.
Also this
Learn how to "start pushes" so that even a half braindead person can understand what's going on
Ults can be used for this. A triple kill from Death Blossom? Guaranteed push from even idiots. Lucio ult+speedboost in? Yeah, they're following if you did it at an okay time. etc.
Well, I still think that any matchmaking system with solo queuers relies heavily on the luck of the draw.
I'm not saying you don't deserve your high ranks, I'm saying it probably was easier to get it by perfecting your play as a carry hero (for those of you who had to solo queue all their matches, which I highly doubt many of you did), and just disregard the whole team comp aspect of the game.
Andd you're back to doing it
"I'm not saying you deserve your ranks, but I highly doubt you solo queued". No. I didn't solo queue. I played with friends in the 40s till 67, then triple queued to 75. But I sure as hell have in the 70s and can hold my own, and if you can solo queue in the 70s, you can't even fall into the 40s, let alone place there.
Don't call yourself bad :<
The way solo q works is just that there usually needs to be somebody getting a carry going because of the lesser coordination. So people just learn a carry so they can be more consistent in getting it going.
If you have somebody that can get the carry going then you don't need to worry about it as much though.
Thanks a lot.
We seem to actually be of the exact same opinion on this subject. I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
I feel like learning a carry hero and just picking it without giving it any thought regarding team composition is the way to go to rank up and get out of these low ranks.
Thanks a lot.
We seem to actually be of the exact same opinion on this subject. I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
I feel like learning a carry hero and just picking it without giving it any thought regarding team composition is the way to go to rank up and get out of these low ranks.
This doesn't work either, DPS needs healers.
MarioHead3
Banned
This doesn't work either, DPS needs healers.
Healers can sort of carry.
2 things I'm starting to feel quite strongly about:
The objective should go for the team who has more players on the point. I don't see how one Lucio/Genji/D'Va/whathaveyou jumping around like an ass and being rewarded for it improves the game. This might not be a big deal on PC, but on PS4 it's genuinely difficult for even 2-3 people to kill a wall-running Lucio before his team is back.
Performance shouldn't affect ult charge so significantly. It just enables insane snowballing and makes comebacks unnecessarily difficult.
The objective should go for the team who has more players on the point. I don't see how one Lucio/Genji/D'Va/whathaveyou jumping around like an ass and being rewarded for it improves the game. This might not be a big deal on PC, but on PS4 it's genuinely difficult for even 2-3 people to kill a wall-running Lucio before his team is back.
Performance shouldn't affect ult charge so significantly. It just enables insane snowballing and makes comebacks unnecessarily difficult.
Healers can sort of carry.
That's what we've been saying though
Every character if played well enough can individually do enough to carry you out of the 40s if you make a big enough impact. Minus Widow on console I'd argue?
Ish. There's a lot more thought to it once you get to higher ranks and you can't just mash into Genji and expect a win. You pick the best carry to fit the comp.
Most DPS
Zarya is a good tank to carry on, Roadhog to a lesser extent.
Zen is the best support to carry on
and so on. Like if your team needs a support, you can lock in Zen to get the support + DPS. Like harmony orb your best DPS/tank religiously in case they go off, then discord whoever on the enemy team is scary. Zen can also win 1v1s against any role right now.
You're not going to carry on Lucio/Mercy or on Rein or something. You can have impact, but realistically you're not going to get a full carry going.
Most DPS
Zarya is a good tank to carry on, Roadhog to a lesser extent.
Zen is the best support to carry on
and so on. Like if your team needs a support, you can lock in Zen to get the support + DPS. Like harmony orb your best DPS/tank religiously in case they go off, then discord whoever on the enemy team is scary. Zen can also win 1v1s against any role right now.
That's what we've been saying though
Every character if played well enough can individually do enough to carry you out of the 40s if you make a big enough impact. Minus Widow on console I'd argue?
You're not going to carry on Lucio/Mercy or on Rein or something. You can have impact, but realistically you're not going to get a full carry going.
This doesn't work either, DPS needs healers.
A good Hog can survive quite a long time without being healed (externally).
A good McCree can out range his opponents pretty heavily since the extension of his damage fall off range last patch.
A good Genji can flank well and pick up enemies, and get out due to dash reset and deflect, and his extreme mobility, without getting killed.
Especially at low ranks, it's possible to outshine opponents and solo carry with these heroes, especially since the game is very susceptible to snowballing.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Thanks a lot.
We seem to actually be of the exact same opinion on this subject. I wholeheartedly agree with your post.
I feel like learning a carry hero and just picking it without giving it any thought regarding team composition is the way to go to rank up and get out of these low ranks.
I agree, carrying with a DPS is the easiest way to climb ranks because you have the most variable impact on the game. Once a healer/tank get skilled enough, you can basically expect/predict their meaningful plays to happen at regular moments. But once both teams have deployed their sound barrier, it's back on the dps to determine who wins the engagement.
This doesn't work either, DPS needs healers.
I disagree, healing has a much lower skill threshold so it's more cost-efficient to climb ranks with a dps. Obviously things change once you get super-high.
Yes it's probably a bit easier but we're hearing an explanation along the lines of Zen can't carry out of the 40s, which is just not true in the slightest.
1) You'll feed them ult if you keep doing that
2) This is the opposite of what the last patch did, McSniper is gone, he's now an anti flanker and such
3) Genji dies very quickly.
This. You can go through your list with most characters, to the point where you'll realize everyone can be a "carry hero" in the 40s.
Also re zen. "I've got you in my sights". I was scared, oh no, I'm about to die! What do I do? Discord, turn the corner, charge alt fire as he sprints around the corner, 5 to the head, instakill.
Felt great.
A good Hog can survive quite a long time without being healed (externally).
A good McCree can out range his opponents pretty heavily since the extension of his damage fall off range last patch.
A good Genji can flank well and pick up enemies, and get out due to dash reset and deflect, and his extreme mobility, without getting killed.
Especially at low ranks, it's possible to outshine opponents and solo carry with these heroes, especially since the game is very susceptible to snowballing.
1) You'll feed them ult if you keep doing that
2) This is the opposite of what the last patch did, McSniper is gone, he's now an anti flanker and such
3) Genji dies very quickly.
Ish. There's a lot more thought to it once you get to higher ranks and you can't just mash into Genji and expect a win. You pick the best carry to fit the comp.
Most DPS
Zarya is a good tank to carry on, Roadhog to a lesser extent.
Zen is the best support to carry on
and so on. Like if your team needs a support, you can lock in Zen to get the support + DPS. Like harmony orb your best DPS/tank religiously in case they go off, then discord whoever on the enemy team is scary. Zen can also win 1v1s against any role right now.
This. You can go through your list with most characters, to the point where you'll realize everyone can be a "carry hero" in the 40s.
Also re zen. "I've got you in my sights". I was scared, oh no, I'm about to die! What do I do? Discord, turn the corner, charge alt fire as he sprints around the corner, 5 to the head, instakill.
Felt great.
MarioHead3
Banned
That's what we've been saying though
Every character if played well enough can individually do enough to carry you out of the 40s if you make a big enough impact. Minus Widow on console I'd argue?
I mean, if you manage to make Widow work really well for you on console, you'll definitely make an impact.
optimus8936
Banned
Also, saying Lucio can't get to higher ranks from lower ranks is completely wrong. I started at rank 54. I'm now at 70 and have been top 500. Yet about 75% of my time is as Lucio, especially when I was starting out comp. Now most games will have someone pick Lucio so I've been allowed to branch out a bit and actually use what I like the most, which is playing tanks. I've also never played in a group of more than one other friend, so groups aren't the only way to rank up.
Also, saying Lucio can't get to higher ranks from lower ranks is completely wrong. I started at rank 54. I'm now at 70 and have been top 500. Yet about 75% of my time is as Lucio, especially when I was starting out comp. Now most games will have someone pick Lucio so I've been allowed to branch out a bit and actually use what I like the most, which is playing tanks. I've also never played in a group of more than one other friend, so groups aren't the only way to rank up.
That's still extremely different than solo queueing, trust me.
You can at least have some team play with that friend of yours, filling two roles quite well.
That's still extremely different than solo queueing, trust me.
You can at least have some team play with that friend of yours, filling two roles quite well.
Solo and 2 person are not very different, and never more than is the same thing as saying "I sometimes solo queue"
Try to improve instead of hating teammates. It's more fun for everyone in your match. Post a match and let us help you.
optimus8936
Banned
What if we just play for fun and don't really do teamwork with each other, other than saying when people die which can be figured out without communication?That's still extremely different than solo queueing, trust me.
You can at least have some team play with that friend of yours, filling two roles quite well.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
I think carrying is the wrong term also. That just implies that your teammates contribute nothing to your wins and i think that's probably not as true as most people here thinks.
Or that you had no factor is causing losses which is also probably not as true as most people here thinks.
Or that you had no factor is causing losses which is also probably not as true as most people here thinks.
Since last week (day after the DDoS) every time I start up the game my initial log in to Battle.Net fails, but as soon as I repeat the process I get signed in no problem.
Anyone else get this? Just a minor gripe for me, but curious if anyone else is getting that.
PS4 version if that helps.
Anyone else get this? Just a minor gripe for me, but curious if anyone else is getting that.
PS4 version if that helps.
you can also get biblical and do some cast the first stone shit where you never think about your team's mistakes until you get yours under control
like sometimes I'll start getting in that hole where I'm all "if only my team did this" or "why would he waste his ult here" but eventually soothe myself with "wait...I suk tho"
ok none of that sounds healthy dont do this
like sometimes I'll start getting in that hole where I'm all "if only my team did this" or "why would he waste his ult here" but eventually soothe myself with "wait...I suk tho"
ok none of that sounds healthy dont do this
beepbeepwherethesheep
Neo Member
Since last week (day after the DDoS) every time I start up the game my initial log in to Battle.Net fails, but as soon as I repeat the process I get signed in no problem.
Anyone else get this? Just a minor gripe for me, but curious if anyone else is getting that.
PS4 version if that helps.
I get that all the time too. Doesn't really bother me though.
1) You'll feed them ult if you keep doing that
2) This is the opposite of what the last patch did, McSniper is gone, he's now an anti flanker and such
3) Genji dies very quickly.
1) I don't agree, hooking someone and killing him then backing off, even with taking damage and "feeding their ult", is worth it. Otherwise Roadhog would be absolutely useless.
2) No, he was gone the previous patch (before the one we're playing on right now), he's effective again at long range, especially considering the lack of Widowmaker and Soldier 76 in the current meta, who previously were good in filling that role.
3) If played correctly Genji is the carry with the most potential, easily.
His mobility, his shurikens doing full damage at any range (if I'm not mistaken), and most importantly his ultimate which can get team wipes, or at least 2-3 kills consistently, make him an absolute beast in good hands.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Yes it's probably a bit easier but we're hearing an explanation along the lines of Zen can't carry out of the 40s, which is just not true in the slightest.
Yes everyone can potentially carry, especially at the sub-50 ranks, but certain heroes carry harder and easier than others. If you're skilled enough to carry with Zen/Lucio up the ranks I'd argue you could have done it faster with another hero. Zen is obviously more of a hybrid, but he usually plays more passively than a dps hero.
I think carrying is the wrong term also. That just implies that your teammates contribute nothing to your wins and i think that's probably not as true as most people here thinks.
Or that you had no factor is causing losses which is also probably not as true as most people here thinks.
I'm not sure what other word to use but I agree with your qualifications. I think the MOBA term is close enough that it's mostly analogous. Just because someone plays a carry hero in Dota or league doesn't mean they can't or don't make mistakes, it just means they're playing the hero whose performance is more important to the outcome of the match than others. Good supports are necessary to win, but a bad carry means their efforts go to waste.
Solo and 2 person are not very different, and never more than is the same thing as saying "I sometimes solo queue"
Try to improve instead of hating teammates. It's more fun for everyone in your match. Post a match and let us help you.
I wish I could, I can't record, my computer isn't good (Q6600, HD5850, DDR2).
Sometimes I fall off to 45 fps and it doesn't help with aiming at all.
I get that all the time too. Doesn't really bother me though.
Okay, just checking. Like you said it's not really bothersome.
Yes everyone can potentially carry, especially at the sub-50 ranks, but certain heroes carry harder and easier than others. If you're skilled enough to carry with Zen/Lucio up the ranks I'd argue you could have done it faster with another hero. Zen is obviously more of a hybrid, but he usually plays more passively than an dps hero.
Zen can completely "carry" a team even at 50s and low 60s, he's probably one of the best to do it with.
1) I don't agree, hooking someone and killing him then backing off, even with taking damage and "feeding their ult", is worth it. Otherwise Roadhog would be absolutely useless.
2) No, he was gone the previous patch (before the one we're playing on right now), he's effective against at long range, expecially considering the lack of Widowmaker and Soldier 76 in the current meta, who previously were good in filling that role.
3) If played correctly Genji is the carry with the most potential, easily.
His mobility, his shurikens doing full damage at any range (if I'm not mistaken), and most importantly his ultimate which can get team wipes, or at least 2-3 kills consistently, make him an absolute beast in good hands.
1) okay, not much more to say on the disagreement.
2) McCree is not nearly as effective at long range anymore, he's not a sniper by any means. Midrange and great at stopping flankers from killing your supports is how you use him.
3) no, go learn genji and have an easy day if that's the case, it'll take 10 quick matches to get you out of the 40s, an hour and a half
edit: you're on PC? Widow is viable. There is no required meta in the 40s really.
Vault Dweller 111
Member
Why is kill feed not default? It changes everything and some people might not even know about it.
Why is kill feed not default? It changes everything and some people might not even know about it.
I was 60s when I learned this and my friends made fun of me, I thought it was some PC feature
X_X
MarioHead3
Banned
Why is kill feed not default? It changes everything and some people might not even know about it.
It's on by default on console, but not on PC. I can't possibly understand why.
I think carrying is the wrong term also. That just implies that your teammates contribute nothing to your wins and i think that's probably not as true as most people here thinks.
Or that you had no factor is causing losses which is also probably not as true as most people here thinks.
My definition of carrying is winning 1v1s and creating enough of an advantage that your entire team gets to snowball out of control. You don't have to put the entire team on your back, but you have to be far enough head to pull them with you.
1) okay, not much more to say on the
2) McCree is not nearly as effective at long range anymore, he's not a sniper by any means. Midrange and great at stopping flankers from killing your supports is how you use him.
3) no, go learn genji and have an easy day if that's the case, it'll take 10 quick matches to get you out of the 40s, an hour and a half
2) McCree is the best "sniper" currently, and Pharah got out of the meta since last patch both because Zen came back in (and has discord), but also because McCree got back his ability to "snipe" at midrange (where most of the team fights happen at).
3) Genji is extremely hard to play correctly, but if played correctly, he's the hero with the highest skill ceiling in my opinion, and the most potential to completely destroy most opponents (well, expect for Winston who hard counters him, but Winston isn't so popular in the meta since the 1 hero limit).
optimus8936
Banned
Yeah, Genji is not as easy as you think. Even Seagull has ults that lead to his immediate death or he only gets one kill. His ult is like every other ult in the game. Sometimes it's amazing, other times it's worthless.
Also, Genjis shurikens do full damage at all ranges because it's hard to hit people with it. That's why he has his alt fire for close range.
Genji is not an insta carry hero.
Also, Genjis shurikens do full damage at all ranges because it's hard to hit people with it. That's why he has his alt fire for close range.
Genji is not an insta carry hero.
Yeah, Genji is not as easy as you think. Even Seagull has ults that lead to his immediate death or he only gets one kill. His ult is like every other ult in the game. Sometimes it's amazing, other times it's worthless.
Also, Genjis shurikens do full damage at all ranges because it's hard to hit people with it. That's why he has his alt fire for close range.
Genji is not an insta carry hero.
Sure I agree, but he's one of the heroes that can really shine when played really well, that's my point.
Just like a McCree with very good aim can be godlike.
optimus8936
Banned
But that's literally every character in the game. That's not exclusive to Genji or McCree.Sure I agree, but he's one of the heroes that can really shine when played really well, that's my point.
Just like a McCree with very good aim can be godlike.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Zen can completely "carry" a team even at 50s and low 60s, he's probably one of the best to do it with.
Yes ultimately it's my subjective opinion (which could be wrong I freely admit) because I'm not aware of any method where we could objectively evaluate data to determine how quickly equally skilled players climb ranks using Zen vs another hero.
The important point is that we all agree that you can climb ranks through individual effort and that some heroes are better than others at doing so. Whether Zen is the fastest or not isn't that important when the point is that it's faster to use Zen than Mercy or Junkrat or something like that.
But that's literally every character in the game. That's not exclusive to Genji or McCree.
I don't think so, not nearly to the same extent at least.
Some heroes played very well are much more disruptive and "deadly" to the enemy team than others (played really well too).
Widowmaker, before she got nerfed, was a good example of what I'm saying.
McCree is one right now, in the current state of the game.
I don't think so, not nearly to the same extent at least.
Except we have a variety of people in here who are higher ranks who are telling you as it is, I'd take their opinions over one founded on you being stuck even though the MMR dictates that you can't really get stuck in 40s solely to bad teammates.
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