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Overwatch |OT4| You Want A Good Genji, But You Need The Bad Hanzo

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Nazo

Member
I keep reading console players are wanting to change up the control scheme for Genji, I've had some success with him once I changed it up. So here's my set up I any of you are interested:

L2/LT: Jump. (This is crucial, changing it to the left trigger gives you much better control of your jumping and lets you more precisely aim while jumping and shooting. I also do this for Lucio and it works great.)

L1/LB: Dash (I think the default placement is good where it is.)

R2/RT: Primary fire (not much reason to change this.)

R1/RB: Alternate Fire (I placed it here because I find the alternate fire really useful for quick burst damage at close range and I've seen its effectiveness from Seagull's streams. Also its just a quick slide of the finger to get to at a moments notice.)

X/A: Reflect (I'll be perfectly honest that I'm not super confident in the placement for this ability but moving your thumb from the stick to the button is fast enough that I personally don't see it as that big of a problem.)

The rest of the buttons I leave unchanged. I hope this helps out you budding Genji's out there and hopefully this is a good jumping off point for you're own control scheme!
 
Wow I'm so happy I did that, helped defend the point like hell. Don't know where the hell the other teammates were.

https://youtu.be/T5mAKBqCnBI

Nice play. Whenever I play Pharah, I'm always wary to use her ultimate. I've seen too many Pharah's get taken down just as they start their barrage.

Also, I'm expecting Sombra tomorrow after other people said new characters during the beta were teased on Twitter a week before their release, but I'm scared it's not gonna happen. =[
 

Sora_N

Member
Nice play. Whenever I play Pharah, I'm always wary to use her ultimate. I've seen too many Pharah's get taken down just as they start their barrage.

Also, I'm expecting Sombra tomorrow after other people said new characters during the beta were teased on Twitter a week before their release, but I'm scared it's not gonna happen. =[

Sometimes you gotta take a risk and its 50/50. I felt this was gonna be 80/20 in my favour and it turned out excellent

I admit 60% of the time I get trigger happy instead of strategic tho.
 

Veelk

Banned
Okay, so I officially have 35 hours in this, I guess I better review it, though I wonder how many people will care 4 OT's in.

This is such an anomaly for me. I am usually a singleplayer guy. My favorite MP up until now was Halo 3's, and I don't think I put in more than 20 hours into it. I just don't do MP. I didn't understand the appeal of doing the same 'mission' over and over, which is evenly paced because you have to have an equal shot with your opponent. It just didn't appeal to me compared to singleplayer experiences, which have hours of content, controlled difficulty pacing to make sure things stay interesting, constant new content.

So I was very skeptical when picking up Overwatch. I'll be honest, it's the characters themselves that sold me on it. I was really worried, because the characters of Team Fortress 2 sold me on getting the game when it still cost something to get....and I ended up playing maybe 2 or 3 hours before realizing I was bored out of my mind. Granted, this was when it had been around for a while, so the players who stayed knew their shit, and I was a much worse player back then. But still, it just didn't click for me. But the fan art thread showed such a passionate fanbase for it, and there was a lot of good character design and personality in it that spoke to me and even in RL I heard people talking about it....I just had to try it out. I was going to get a used copy, but GS was out of them, so I was really hesitant in picking it up....but I did.

As I said, I'm a singleplayer guy, so that I've put in 35 hours into overwatch with no intentions of stopping any time soon really say something about the game. This is just not an experience I had before with ANY other game, and I don't know if I can properly describe how that makes me feel. There's a novelty about just the experience of being into a game type you've never liked before. Think about the kind of game you generally hate or have absolutely no interest in...then try to think of a game of that type that you love despite it being something you usually are indifferent to. That it's the only one of it's kind makes it special in a particular way.

I think part of the reason it's so unique is the Rock-Paper-Scissors design of the combat. I've never had the best reflexes, so when it came down to it, if I was facing a completely equal opponent in, say, Halo, but they were better in reflexes, they'd basically win. When I got good at that game, it was mainly learning the map enough to compensate for my slow fingers, but you can only know a map so well before you hit a plateau. With this, reflexes are a big part of it, for sure...but knowing the map is even more tantamount, coordinating with your team, and knowing who to go after and when. That kind of strategic thinking is far more in line with my strengths. Which is not to say I'm supergood at this game or anything, because trust me, I'm not. But I rarely feel as helpless as I used to if I played Halo against a better person. Now, to feel helpless, the entire team needs to have things locked down, and not only do I feel that's more earned, but it's something I think I could over come with good teammates. That means I always look at a match idealistically instead of "Oh man, I hope these guys aren't super good". But you want to know whats super good about this? While I learn to play to a character's abilities, I'm passively learning better reflexes as well. I tried to play Genji before when I started because he was a Cyborg Ninja and holy shit is that cool....only to find out I'm useless with him. D.Va gelled with me much better as a close range fighter with a ton of health and high mobility. But now that I've put so many hours into the game, going back to explore characters, it's much easier to control Genji and I had a much easier time getting to know him from just playing the game in a manner that suited me more at first.

But I also think that....I don't even know what you'd call it. The story? The characters? The lore? That's still a big appeal to me despite the game not having a singleplayer mode...and more bizarrely, me not wanting one. I don't know how anyone would make a campaign with all these characters in such a way as to not fuck up all the various interpretations of their personality. These are all simple characters, but they invite people to imagine their daily lives (which is why I think memes like Dad 76 and D.Va being a mountain dew chugging, dorito munching gremlin have taken off.) Like, people are intrigued to know about the big events like why Overwatch originally fell through, but they care a lot more about just imagining how these characters hang out with each other. So while I'm interesting in knowing about their history, the typical gaming conflicts (in this case, of an evil robot invasion) won't hold up as much. To give a recent example, I like this strip from the fan art thread. Now, all the game (well, not the game, but Blizzard's website, but still) tells us is that Reaper was jealous of Soldier 76 getting the glory, he worked on the black ops division of Overwatch, and the game implies Mercy is the one that is responsible for the current condition of reaper who is perpetually dying, and Mercy, Soldier, and reaper all came out scarred from the experience of Overwatch's fall. That's not a lot of information, but through ideas like this comic, I just think of Mercy and Soldier 76 and Reaper all having been friends, while Reaper was still a very troubled individual, he also cared for them. So I like to think they had interactions much like this one where Mercy and Soldier would have to drag him into doing social stuff like that. And this is a powerful narrative technique, when you get people to write the narrative of the story for you. I remember one author talking about how he was praised by a fan for a battle scene in his novel that he didn't actually write because the scene faded to black before the action started, but the reader in question made up the scene in his head that ended up being one of his favorites. This is basically what Blizzard has done. There is a definitive narrative to all these characters, but they have invited players to make it their own. And that's amazing. But it also means Blizzard can't say anything. If they come in and say "this is what happened", and it doesn't fit with what people's created narratives are, no one is going to be happy. And it's not going to measure up to what people imagined either, because imagination is basically better 99% of the time. And, again, this is all assuming they create the narrative around the stuff I'm actually interested in, the character relationships. But more than likely, it'd be around the Omnic Crisis and....well, I just don't care about that. I only care insofar as exploring Zenyatta's personality more, but the giant robot war itself? I would have very little interest in exploring that part of the characters history unless it was done REALLY well.

But I'm guessing most of you are more interested in the gameplay aspect of this. The fandom seems kind of split, where hte fan art thread talks about their personality and history and stuff (while their not looking at the characters in skimpy outfits), while here the talk is almost exclusively about the gameplay. Well, like I said, I like the concept of it and I'm still kind of amazed that it's grabbed my attention the way it has. But no online MP game is perfect and there are things about it that annoy me. Keep in mind, I'm an average player at best (my win rate, with 260 games, is about 53%) so if anything what I say is bullshit, feel free to call me out on it, but here are the balance issues as I perceive them:

*Hero stacking: fuck this so hard, especially when it's a bunch of Torbs or Bastions and you can only, at best, take out one of them before the other 3 blow you away.
*Some character balancing: I've heard people say that D.Va's ult is both utterly useless and circumstantially useful. I've won more than a few games with it, but when it comes down to it, if you know D.Va ult is coming (which you most likely will because of the huge timer), you're going to survive easily it easily. I would like to see this altered in some way. I know that D.Va is getting a buff soon, but I don't know what that entails. If it's just damage increase, I don't think she needs it, but I'd like to see her either shorten her ult or make it so that players just die within certain vicinity. If a Reinhardt is there, he can shield his team, but he fucking dies. If a Mei shields a team, they survive, but still get damaged from the force. And don't have players survive by hiding behind a fucking signpost for christ sake. As it is, the counters to D.Va are too numerous and complete. I would also like to be able to shoot down Mei's robot thing. It's not an overpowered ult, but I'd like a good chance of being able to counter it. I'd also like to see a nerf of Torb's molten core. It's just such an annoying ult to deal with because nothing fundamentally changes about it, he just goes super saiyan and the 800 armor on the turret firing rockets basically makes it nigh impossible to bring him down. I've tried everything, D.Va shooting it point blank, using Pharah Rockets, Genji reflect, sniping from a distance (I've only ever had this work at the beginning of the map. If it's toward the end, there isn't an angle you can get with any character that doesn't have them immediately firing on you, and a sniper that's in range is generally going to lose out to multiple turrets). Unless there is team concentrated fire, all you can do is wait out the Molten core, and it's part of the reason why stacking Torb is so impossible to deal with without high coordination among your team, even when you start getting some hits in, he just ults and everything you just did is instantly undone. It's very annoying and not fun.
* Maps: I actually like Hanamura, but you guys showed earlier in the thread how D.Va stacking can fuck this mode up hard, maybe harder than other maps because the spawn point for it is so close to the objective. I don't know if it's necessarily unbalanced but Route 66 is annoying to play as the defender because the spawn is so far away when the team hits the second checkpoint. Maybe I'm just crazy and it's no slower a travel distance as other maps, but it somehow feels longer to me and I spend more time just running to the enemy engagement unless they're almost at the end. King's Row somehow avoids this problem, maybe because the travel between the starting point and the garage spawn area is somehow not well suited for combat, so they usually get it to the next checkpoint pretty fast. Volskaya Industries same problem if I spawn as the attacker, it just takes me forever to get there and it's annoying. I know this is less a balance issue, but I'm just noting the stuff that I don't like.

This isn't all of it, but I don't want to just make this a list of me criticizing each character individually, since that'd be boring. But, of course, none of this breaks the game for me, they're just problems I'd like to see fixed somehow.

So yeah, that's my experience with it. I really love this game. I'm going to probably make a thread on it concerning diversity, because that's also a big draw for the characters for me and I want to see how many people are likeminded to me in that regard. This is more than a great game for me, it's a special game. It's my entry point to a whole genre I've been up until now entirely disinterested in. It's a game that appeals to my playstyle and it does narratively interesting things with it's world building. It's really fun and I'm glad to be playing it.
 

cyborg009

Banned
So my team that won 3 matches straight we were using a Zenyatta + lucio combo that made us practically steamroll most of are matches.

Zenyatta Ultimate came in really clutch in KOTH when the team was hitting us from all sides.
 

ramyeon

Member
As someone with 50hrs on Mercy, the 'protect Mercy' rhetoric is bs. That's her job and nobody elses.

Too many Mercys see themselves as a passive spectator. They don't bother learning her pistol and lack awareness of their options. I once saw a Mercy who let herself and 4 teammates die in a Zarya ult instead of flying to a Hanzo and back to rez those 4. If there wasn't a Hanzo, she could at least shoot her pistol to kill an enemy; that's one less person capping the objective.

Her pistol can also alert teammates of a flanker. If I see someone creeping around, I spam the pistol in that location until a teammates takes care of them.

Every time I've checked a good Mercy's career profile, they've had average elims between 3 and 6.
Pretty much. I've taken out Reapers etc who try to come for me as Mercy all alone with her pistol. 9 times out of 10 they're expecting you to be an easy kill and go down without a fight.
 

Moonkid

Member
X/A: Reflect (I'll be perfectly honest that I'm not super confident in the placement for this ability but moving your thumb from the stick to the button is fast enough that I personally don't see it as that big of a problem.)

The rest of the buttons I leave unchanged. I hope this helps out you budding Genji's out there and hopefully this is a good jumping off point for you're own control scheme!
R3 would work better for reflect I think. I haven't used him much but it seems like a fine place as all it needs a light push without moving your thumb away.
 
So my team that won 3 matches straight we were using a Zenyatta + lucio combo that made us practically steamroll most of are matches.

Zenyatta Ultimate came in really clutch in KOTH when the team was hitting us from all sides.

I love that combo. I'll play either of the two and have observed the steamroll effect you're referring to in your post. Zenyatta is such an anomaly in that the ultimate really doesn't fit with the rest of his abilities.

He can really grief characters if he has space to hide and take pot shots. During my last game of the night, I kept dropping an orb of discord on a Reaper. He really got pissed when I activated my ultimate right as he did (it worked really poorly for him as the rest of the team mowed him down in the first "Die!" he exclaimed). The rest of the match he hunted me down and I was able to pick him off because he kept running right at me instead of trying to flank (like a Reaper should be doing). Fun times.
 

Veelk

Banned
R3 would work better for reflect I think. I haven't used him much but it seems like a fine place as all it needs a light push without moving your thumb away.

Shit, I hadn't even though of that...Really good idea. I think that would work for most heroes in general, freeing up a space for a jump button for everyone.
 
I really wish the PotG system can get expanded to be much smarter. Since this is a team game, they should teach the system to detect the players involved in the "play" and share credit accordingly. In this example, it would be awesome if they show the Pharah and Zarya giving each other a high five, before they show the play. Stuff like that would also encourage more teamwork and synergy between random players (maybe?) instead of players trying to chase their own PotG at the detriment of the overall team.

Yeah. I feel bad for Zarya here.

No hate for Pharah though :p.
 
Man this game makes me mad it is like it isn't about skill it is about pressing Q. I do really well then the other team spams the final objective with all their ults at once and we lose at the last second it is real fucking frustrating.
 

maomaoIYP

Member
Genji control scheme

I use L1 for jump and X for dash. Deflect requires aiming control over the duration of the ability and I prefer it to remain on R1.
R3 for melee is great for close ranged alt fire cancelling.

Speaking of control schemes in general, I've mapped jump either L1 or L2 for the entire cast depending on character, the sole exception being McCree whom I've not changed the scheme at all. I'll probably do it at sometime but I don't really play McCree and both roll and flashbang feel crucial on L1/R1.
 
if i see/hear the words "protect your mercy" one more time i am going to SCREAM

we told him to just switch to lucio and then he ACTUALLY SAID "never criticise your healer, nothing is our fault" and i literally could not believe what i was reading

if they werent so waifu obsessed theyd know how to play something else but alas being a useless mercy is better than learning the more evasive support xD

u can even ask these monkeys if they would switch to a dps class so you can play lucio but they wont even do it cuz they only know how to play fucking mercy

these people are worse than hanzo pickers by a mile. the persecution complex is on par with the support whining in Dota2 and thats saying a LOT

truthbomb

The protect Mercy stuff means that Mercy wasn't hugging someone else like she's supposed to. Not dying is also a part of playing Mercy. Bringing up that complaint brings with it a level of culpability
 
truthbomb

The protect Mercy stuff means that Mercy wasn't hugging someone else like she's supposed to. Not dying is also a part of playing Mercy. Bringing up that complaint brings with it a level of culpability
I think Zenyatta and Lucio are way better healers and I think the only reason Mercy is in the game is to be the obligatory TF2 Medic clone. She dies too fast and is useless most of the time.

If people don't want to deal with playing a healer then they shouldn't play healer.
 

Veelk

Banned
I feel "Protect Zenyatta" is more valid than protect Mercy. Zenyatta works best nice and comfy behind a Reinhardt shield with some fighters on his side taking shots at the the enemies with the disrupt orb. Zenyatta is too slow to be able to counter anything that has a jump on him, but between being able to buff his allies, cripple his enemies, and give temporary invulnerability, he's extremely useful with a team willing to protect him.

That may not apply to the competitive side of the playerbase. Also, it's probably less useful on PC than consoles, since players have a higher degree of accuracy there and could take Zenny out more easily. But a protect Zenyatta can really ruin my teams day if used right.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
Team is about to cap the point, they're a few yards away from it, so in a last ditch effort I ress 2 of our dead guys but they all die anyway since their whole team was there and then this guy starts bitching at me because I ressed them next to the enemy team.

Like, motherfucker, where else should I have ressed you guys? They were about to cap it any moment, should I have waited AFTER we lost to res? Drives me nuts when people try to micromanage everyone but only say dumb shit.
 
In my experience she dies too quickly unless she's paired up in very specific combinations. And even then it is usually better to have a healer that can heal the whole team quickly rather than just one person. Mercy's main benefit is reviving people but that mechanic usually results in getting revived surrounded by enemy players and getting killed instantly. And since Mercy becomes totally immobile when doing it she usually dies instantly too. It's a mess.
 
I've been experimenting with playing Torbjorn on Attack lately, since I don't care for playing him on Defensive. Results are pretty mixed depending on the map thus far, and requires you to know these maps inside and out. I've had some great results on Anubis, where you can sneak up to the second capture point while everyone is still preoccupied with the first one. Plonking a turret down there really disrupts respawned reinforcements. You have to change its location every few kills though, since taking them out isn't hard due to the layout of that area. Many of them end up changing characters to counter the turrets, which end up being really unsuitable for defending their own points.

You do end up learning some new colourful insults from the opposing team as well.

yeah, i think so too, it would just be nice to have 6 tanks. defense and offense heroes are super flexible (most can be used in multiple situations), so I see little need to expand those pools over tanks or supports.
Agreed. Offense and Defence classes are both popular picks, and you can pretty much spot that entire cast by only playing two games. They're also always the first couple of choices that get locked down too.

Tanks and support in contrast pretty much always seem like the last reluctant picks in public games. They're the classes who are the most focussed on the teamwork element that the game is based around, which I guess is part of what makes them less popular. The other two groups can pretty much be played as lone wolves, and still get their PotG glory. Supports and Tanks being the categories with the least amount of variation surely isn't helping this problem. Boosting all classes to 6 characters each should be Blizzard's priority imo.

Anyone on EU server lagging like hell and waits 3-4 minutes for matches? It's completely unplayable right now, is it me or is it the server?
I've been having this problem for the past few days too. It's usually the worst at the start of matches, but I've seen a fair number of people in the chat talking about disconnects as well.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
In my experience she dies too quickly unless she's paired up in very specific combinations. And even then it is usually better to have a healer that can heal the whole team quickly rather than just one person. Mercy's main benefit is reviving people but that mechanic usually results in getting revived surrounded by enemy players and getting killed instantly. And since Mercy becomes totally immobile when doing it she usually dies instantly too. It's a mess.

Nah, she's nearly bordering on OP honestly.

Agreed. Offense and Defence classes are both popular picks, and you can pretty much spot that entire cast by only playing two games. They're also always the first couple of choices that get locked down too.

Tanks and support in contrast pretty much always seem like the last reluctant picks in public games. They're the classes who are the most focussed on the teamwork element that the game is based around, which I guess is part of what makes them less popular. The other two groups can pretty much be played as lone wolves, and still get their PotG glory. Supports and Tanks being the categories with the least amount of variation surely isn't helping this problem. Boosting all classes to 6 characters each should be Blizzard's priority imo.
.

Wait, are we really judging variety through pub picks?

The tank class is crazy varied. I've play 500+ games as tank and trust me, they're all very different.

If anything they need to look at defense classes because they're all relegated as very situational picks in the higher levels and some assault classes even do defense better than the defense classes. Soldier 76 is used on defense more than most defense characters.
 
Is there a comprehensive list of rules for competitive anywhere? I had a game tonight on Route 66 where we managed to win despite neither team managing to capture the final point. I'm fairly sure the score ended at 2 - 2 but there was no sudden death.
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Wait, are we really judging variety through pub picks?

The tank class is crazy varied. I've play 500+ games as tank and trust me, they're all very different.

If anything they need to look at defense classes because they're all relegated as very situational picks in the higher levels and some assault classes even do defense better than the defense classes. Soldier 76 is used on defense more than most defense characters.
Tanks do have variety to them, but I never see people rushing to play the tank role in their team. They're clearly the less desirable choice. I don't know if adding another tank will fix this, but it can't hurt. Adding more Offensive or Defensive characters on the other hand will hurt this aspect in all likelihood, since all you'd be doing is giving people more choice there.

You're definitely right on the Soldier 76 though. Rebalancing the current cast seems inevitable, especially as they continue to add more characters.

Pub matches are is all I play, and I don't follow the eSports side of it, so it's all I'm able to comment on.
 
2 teams of 3 vs 6 randoms, fuck you Blizzard.

Get that far too much. And people who have "prestiged" all on the same team while my team have none. Mix it up a bit, make it a little fucking fairer!

Also, is it asking too much of Blizzard to localise the times of their planned maintenance messages?
 

cyborg009

Banned
I love that combo. I'll play either of the two and have observed the steamroll effect you're referring to in your post. Zenyatta is such an anomaly in that the ultimate really doesn't fit with the rest of his abilities.

He can really grief characters if he has space to hide and take pot shots. During my last game of the night, I kept dropping an orb of discord on a Reaper. He really got pissed when I activated my ultimate right as he did (it worked really poorly for him as the rest of the team mowed him down in the first "Die!" he exclaimed). The rest of the match he hunted me down and I was able to pick him off because he kept running right at me instead of trying to flank (like a Reaper should be doing). Fun times.

He also works great against tanks like roadhog with his discord orb. sends them running away.

I feel "Protect Zenyatta" is more valid than protect Mercy. Zenyatta works best nice and comfy behind a Reinhardt shield with some fighters on his side taking shots at the the enemies with the disrupt orb. Zenyatta is too slow to be able to counter anything that has a jump on him, but between being able to buff his allies, cripple his enemies, and give temporary invulnerability, he's extremely useful with a team willing to protect him.

That may not apply to the competitive side of the playerbase. Also, it's probably less useful on PC than consoles, since players have a higher degree of accuracy there and could take Zenny out more easily. But a protect Zenyatta can really ruin my teams day if used right.

Protection of Zenyatta is key, if he's constantly going down then its useless using him.

Zenyatta is such a shit healer that I cry each time people pick him as our main healer.

He can't be your main healer but complements your main healer.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone
Is there a comprehensive list of rules for competitive anywhere? I had a game tonight on Route 66 where we managed to win despite neither team managing to capture the final point. I'm fairly sure the score ended at 2 - 2 but there was no sudden death.
spectre-what.gif
spectre-what.gif
spectre-what.gif

Payload counts furthest distance also.

Tanks do have variety to them, but I never see people rushing to play the tank role in their team. They're clearly the less desirable choice. I don't know if adding another tank will fix this, but it can't hurt. Adding more Offensive or Defensive characters on the other hand will hurt this aspect in all likelihood, since all you'd be doing is giving people more choice there.

Pub matches are is all I play, and I don't follow the eSports side of it, so it's all I'm able to comment on.

I live in like opposite land honestly. Sometimes I have to switch off tank to assault because sending out a team of 3 tanks is a pretty risky thing.

Which I sometimes regret because then I get reins who bloody charge in willy nilly with no regard of the team.
 

jeemer

Member
re: mercy, it's not really a black and white issue. yes, in order to be effective, mercy players should be watching their own back, trying to use cover and guardian angel to get around. They should be watching for flankers and calling where they can / shooting to help get the attention of their own team. however, if you're being healed by a mercy it's in your team's best interests to actively protect them too.

you don't need to go full-on paranoia mode, but checking your back from time to time is helpful, as well as watching for enemy vantage points. if you go repeatedly into tunnel vision when i'm healing you and run off the point, leaving me to die while shouting "i could use a little help here", i will be displeased. mercy's are not going to continue playing mercy if they feel that they are going unappreciated.

i find mercy's often stick to me as i've manually been using the "thanks" voice command since day 1 to attentive mercys/zens/symms/torbs and make a point of looking out for their safety. i'm sure i'm preaching to the choir here, but it's seriously frustrating to go healer/tank on attack, or builder/healer on defence (in a situation where no one else on your team is willing to) and then have absolutely zero support or acknowledgement from your team mates.

on another note, I don't know what has changed on pc, but the last 3 days I've played I seem to repeatedly end up in teams of people who want to stand back from control points and shoot into them. did the game just get discounted or something? what the hell? get on the point.
 

ekim

Member
I just noticed that every time I try to really learn a new character I'm really good with him/her after about half an hour (I played all of them before to learn their main mechanics and know their "objectives" from experiencing them being played by others) and always get lots of gold medals and shit. After some hours I'm starting to suck with that char. I don't know why but I guess as soon as you start thinking too much about the playstyle and tactics the honeymoon and mindless playing stops and you makes errors more often. Last time this happened with Tracer. I won like 10 games in a row with her but now my 4:1 K/D ratio went to 1.8:1 :(

something like this:
untitledxjlvs.png
 

Veelk

Banned
I just noticed that every time I try to really learn a new character I'm really good with him/her after about half an hour (I played all of them before to learn their main mechanics and know their "objectives" from experiencing them being played by others) and always get lots of gold medals and shit. After some hours I'm starting to suck with that char. I don't know why but I guess as soon as you start thinking too much about the playstyle and tactics the honeymoon and mindless playing stops and you makes errors more often. Last time this happened with Tracer. I won like 10 games in a row with her but now my 4:1 K/D ratio went to 1.8:1 :(

Once you get more practice in, the mechanics that you consciously think about will start to become unconscious reflexes. Expertise is learned by being able to not think about the complex stuff you have to do. I mean, try walking, but be concious of every muscle you need to use to walk, mindful of how your hips, knee's and ankle all shift and move as you take a step forward. Have someone else watch and they'll ask why you're walking so weird, but walk without thinking and it's fine.

It's strange that you start off not thinking about how characters play though. I start by trying to conciously think about what I'm doing, and I only get good once I stop.
 

Banzai

Member
Ok, my Tracer: Sporty skin, The blinking around Highlight Intro, The spinning weapons emote, the sitting down victory pose, the cute spray and the "Cheers, love" voice line. I'm satisfied now.
 

ekim

Member
Once you get more practice in, the mechanics that you consciously think about will start to become unconscious reflexes. Expertise is learned by being able to not think about the complex stuff you have to do. I mean, try walking, but be concious of every muscle you need to use to walk, mindful of how your hips, knee's and ankle all move to take a step forward. Have someone else watch and they'll ask why you're walking so weird, but walk without thinking and it's fine.

It's strange that you start off not thinking about how characters play though. I start by trying to conciously think about what I'm doing, and I only get good once I stop.

Thinking about the main mechanics isn't that much of a problem after the initial first play with a char. It's more that after some hours I think about how to outplay the enemy by my map movement and which char to target from the other team. When I was in the learn phase I was just mindless and did try things out which worked way better. It's also that I'm better when I'm drunk. lol
 

maouvin

Member
something like this:

I felt this sometimes too. Guess we're just getting lucky on those first matches. On my first Pharah games I could fly without hassle and just blow everyone up. Some games later I fought people that would constantly take me out, not only due to them making an effort for it, but also because my flying patterns were probably too obvious. Now things are improving again, but that sweet start was probably just luck.

Never had any luck with Tracer though ¦3
 

Veelk

Banned
Thinking about the main mechanics isn't that much of a problem after the initial first play with a char. It's more that after some hours I think about how to outplay the enemy by my map movement and which char to target from the other team. When I was in the learn phase I was just mindless and did try things out which worked way better. It's also that I'm better when I'm drunk. lol

Well, each person has their own learning style.

I would theorize the reason is actually because you're trying to learn a seperate thing. Because 'just playing' a character is one thing. Meaning, just trying to figure out how his abilities work in conjunction with each other. For example, I had to learn with Genji how to throw the shuriken (both ways), use his dash, his reflect, and ult. That's just figuring out how your abilities interact with each other and your opponents.

Now you're trying to learn how your abilities interact with a map, which is possibly why you're normal play style is getting disrupted a little bit. You're thinking not just about killing the opponents, but predicting where they are, how best to get there, how to count on them playing one character or another, and in the process of that learning, you're getting a bit hamstrung on your normal play.

I think it should go away once you learn it enough. Dunno if you'll get your K/D ratio back, but....


Never had any luck with Tracer though ¦3

I mechanically understand how I am supposed to play her, but I can't keep mindful of it while in combat. I blink off the edge of the map more than once, and I always forget to rewind after I use my ult.

That's okay. Genji has a similar playstyle to Tracer I think. He comes out from the side, and dashes. He's slower, but hits harder. If I know how to play Genji, I don't necessarily need tracer.

I'll learn her though, if only so I can troll the enemy team as their tracers have trolled me so many a time. Seriously, I think she's the most annoying character in the game. I'd rather deal with a Mei than have to deal with a tracer.
 

ekim

Member
Well, each person has their own learning style.

I would theorize the reason is actually because you're trying to learn a seperate thing. Because 'just playing' a character is one thing. Meaning, just trying to figure out how his abilities work in conjunction with each other. For example, I had to learn with Genji how to throw the shuriken (both ways), use his dash, his reflect, and ult. That's just figuring out how your abilities interact with each other and your opponents.

Now you're trying to learn how your abilities interact with a map, which is possibly why you're normal play style is getting disrupted a little bit. You're thinking not just about killing the opponents, but predicting where they are, how best to get there, how to count on them playing one character or another, and in the process of that learning, you're getting a bit hamstrung on your normal play.

I think it should go away once you learn it enough. Dunno if you'll get your K/D ratio back, but....

Makes sense. And usually I also get better with the time. My best chars are Junkrat and DVa and I needed about 5-10 hours to get where I am with those chars. And honestly: I don't really care about the K/D ratio but it was nice to see at first. lol
 

ekim

Member
I mechanically understand how I am supposed to play her, but I can't keep mindful of it while in combat. I blink off the edge of the map more than once, and I always forget to rewind after I use my ult.

That's okay. Genji has a similar playstyle to Tracer I think. He comes out from the side, and dashes. He's slower, but hits harder. If I know how to play Genji, I don't necessarily need tracer.

I'll learn her though, if only so I can troll the enemy team as their tracers have trolled me so many a time. Seriously, I think she's the most annoying character in the game. I'd rather deal with a Mei than have to deal with a tracer.

Genji is quite different from Tracer. Tracer is useless outside of close combat while Genji can do a lot of damage from afar. Dashing through the enemy is also not a good idea unless you know you kill someone to recharge the dash again to get out of trouble. It only does 50 dmg IIRC. I learned that tracer is there to annoy the enemy before they arrive at the objective to buy the rest of the team some time. In narrow places without alternative ways she can't do much and is an easy target. But in open areas she's ace whereas Genji can play in both environments.
 

Veelk

Banned
Genji is quite different from Tracer. Tracer is useless outside of close combat while Genji can do a lot of damage from afar. Dashing through the enemy is also not a good idea unless you know you kill someone to recharge the dash again to get out of trouble. It only does 50 dmg IIRC. I learned that tracer is there to annoy the enemy before they arrive at the objective to buy the rest of the team some time. In narrow places without alternative ways she can't do much and is an easy target. But in open areas she's ace whereas Genji can play in both environments.
Dashing in enemy crowds worked out for me so far. I mean, obviously, if I charge in from the front, and end up in the middle of their crowd, I'm not going to get far. But what I do is flank them, shuriken them, as soon as they turn around to see whats up, I dash through them, which has disoriented most players I've fought so far. If I'm close to them, I melee them (btw, does Genji's melee do more damage than other characters? I feel it should, since he uses his small sword, but I'm not sure), or else I continue shurikening them, and their usually dead by this point. I also try to make sure they are engaged in combat. Like Tracer, I am a nuisance, because they can't deal with me flanking them so long as my teammates keep the pressure up. The best example for me is my fights with Reinhardts. Genji wrecks his day if I have teammates who are shooting at him. Either he opens himself up to me or to them. But in the times when he could focus on me without dying, he wiped me out pretty easily even if I was using my ult. So in that sense, I see him as a harder hitting but slower tracer. He's definitely distinct from tracer, but his general tactics seem similar to me.

Again, I have to preface this with saying I only play QP. It's possible that in Comp, this is a suicide tactic.
 

ragevvorks

Neo Member
In my experience she dies too quickly unless she's paired up in very specific combinations. And even then it is usually better to have a healer that can heal the whole team quickly rather than just one person. Mercy's main benefit is reviving people but that mechanic usually results in getting revived surrounded by enemy players and getting killed instantly. And since Mercy becomes totally immobile when doing it she usually dies instantly too. It's a mess.

Same in my comp team, at rank 60+ Mercy gets focused down so quickly she's basically pointless to pick. Running double Lucio is usually a much more durable and effective option at this point.

Mercy used to be a necessity when the enemy team has one too, but now that people know how to prioritize and chase targets, this is no longer the case.
 
Who are some experienced competitive players that I can trust to take on matches that are Rank 60-70?

Solo queue is nice, but sometimes I'd like to play with either small or big groups.

(If anyone plays with Jorgejjvr, he's my brother)

Edit: This is on PSN.
 

ekim

Member
Dashing in enemy crowds worked out for me so far. I mean, obviously, if I charge in from the front, and end up in the middle of their crowd, I'm not going to get far. But what I do is flank them, shuriken them, as soon as they turn around to see whats up, I dash through them, which has disoriented most players I've fought so far. If I'm close to them, I melee them (btw, does Genji's melee do more damage than other characters? I feel it should, since he uses his small sword, but I'm not sure), or else I continue shurikening them, and their usually dead by this point. I also try to make sure they are engaged in combat. Like Tracer, I am a nuisance, because they can't deal with me flanking them so long as my teammates keep the pressure up. The best example for me is my fights with Reinhardts. Genji wrecks his day if I have teammates who are shooting at him. Either he opens himself up to me or to them. But in the times when he could focus on me without dying, he wiped me out pretty easily even if I was using my ult. So in that sense, I see him as a harder hitting but slower tracer. He's definitely distinct from tracer, but his general tactics seem similar to me.

Again, I have to preface this with saying I only play QP. It's possible that in Comp, this is a suicide tactic.

I think his melee is just as powerful as the others. Dashing into enemies only makes sense if your team is around and you are flanking, I agree.

And annoying Reinhardts is the best thing with Genji and Tracer. ^^
 

ekim

Member
Btw: Should I lock the framerate to my monitors refresh rate ingame or not? I lowered the graphic settings so I hit 144FPS constantly but I don't know if any higher framerate would be beneficial.
 

holysan

Member
And annoying Reinhardts is the best thing with Genji and Tracer. ^^

Killed a lot Genjis just by swinging the hammer around. With the small knockback everytime you hit him, it's not easy to escape imo. Also.. countering the ult with earthshatter.. or even better, a pin :D
 
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