I just had a match where I took it down as Ana. Guess no one noticed me slipping past in the team fight while the Nanoboosted Rein wrecked havoc on the point :lol
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Overwatch |OT6.99999997311%| Game of the Year
- Thread starter ExMachina
- Start date
I just had a match where I took it down as Ana. Guess no one noticed me slipping past in the team fight while the Nanoboosted Rein wrecked havoc on the point :lol
They don't really require setup at all anymore.
That's never a situation that's going to happen though. There is no area in the map that has line of sight where she can stay far away enough from the battlefield to not be succeptible to some kind of attack. The game is too small for Widow to ever really not be close enough to kill.
And those things are actually pretty shit for keeping her aware. Or rather, for there to be any chance of survival for her once she is made aware.
Widowmaker is good at one thing and one thing only: Sniping, which has such a high skill ceiling, especially on console, that it's basically untenable to actually use. But if anyone, and I mean literally any character, manages to get close to widowmaker, even if they tripped the mine and are bleeding that pathetic 15 damage a second health, they are likely to kill widowmaker.
Personally, I think there is no reason Widowmaker should not be able to spider-man around any time she wants.
Probably the only time I'd want a Junkrat on attack. Grenade spam easily takes it out.
Yup, Diamond is basically ELO heaven.
Shake Appeal
Member
Oh man, that sleep dart.
How do you guys know when you've found the right sensitivity?
I never really tried finding what works best for me, but I was messing around with some Ana bots and out of curiosity I changed it from 1600 DPI 3.5 sens (which I've been playing at for about 3 months) to 3.0 and I seemed to be doing better.
I never really tried finding what works best for me, but I was messing around with some Ana bots and out of curiosity I changed it from 1600 DPI 3.5 sens (which I've been playing at for about 3 months) to 3.0 and I seemed to be doing better.
LumpOfCole
Member
Uh I think there is a glitch right now that is letting one put the Shield Generator in the spawn room in certain circumstances, like if you angle it a certain way or just got pushed back a point. Kinda broken.
Sometimes people think they have a shield generator selected and they mistakenly put a teleporter up and no one should judge them.
Yup. You can place it in a corridor leading outside the final spawn room of (Defence) Route 66, which is a no entry point for enemies.
Junkrat spam could destroy it, but he has no way of knowing it's there.
Nuno Pinto
Member
Yeah that reminds me of someone.
Getting back into the game for the first time since the Halloween event, just finished my placement matches. Some things I've noticed is that the game feels somewhat faster now, for better or worse.
Symmetra's changes are interesting and I'll have to give her a try again. Another shield to deal with makes Roadhog feel less effective, though. I take down Rein's shield and out comes the shield projector to give him time to heal it back up. I find myself switching off of Roadhog if I see they have Rein + Symm now. Way too much effort to do damage with him in that situation.
Symmetra's changes are interesting and I'll have to give her a try again. Another shield to deal with makes Roadhog feel less effective, though. I take down Rein's shield and out comes the shield projector to give him time to heal it back up. I find myself switching off of Roadhog if I see they have Rein + Symm now. Way too much effort to do damage with him in that situation.
xaosslug
Member
either you're a bad Widow or you've come across bad Widows? But I've come across some that 'make it work' so to speak, and when you see the killcam/potg it's like damn.
but even saying that a Widow can get fairly close, get a quick pick and then change position. 12 seconds is a lot of time, imo. Sure, if you have a Winston/D.Va focusing you... RIP, but that's true of any character being focused, really.
i mean Ana has ZERO mobility, yet somehow players can make her work...
and if Widowmaker could spiderman around... lord help this fucking game. LOL
D.vine!
Incendiary
Banned
Man I just had two matches on Winter Mystery Hanamura where I went 14-0 both times and got victories while never having to switch characters - the first time was on attack as Torbjorn of all people, the second time was on defense as D.Va which is a little more expected. After the mode sucking for me terribly the first couple times I tried it, it was nice not having it go terribly. On the other hand, switching characters after dying is kind of the point of the mode. So going deathless is kind of against playing the mode in the first place!
SgtWiggles
Member
Lol made a D.va solo ult my Shield Generator there once. She tried to take it out like 3 times and I got her each time, finally she panicked and ulted
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Yup, just about how I predicted it (not that it's a super out of left field prediction). Sym will pretty much replace lucio on defense on quite a number of maps now.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
That was a fucking stomp.
capitalCORN
Member
Envy with the perfect series. What kings!
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Also taimou on mei. 
Guess he wasn't kidding about working on his flex.
Guess he wasn't kidding about working on his flex.
FieryBalrog
Member
Symmetra shield gen jsut completely blocked Faze on Anubis pointA
Unless your getting headshots, you're not a good widowmaker. And I think the best widowmaker on PC has a 30% headshot rating. Maybe Widowmaker's viable if you have super good aim. But on console, there is literally no such thing as a good widowmaker. Some get get shots in fairly consistently, but rarely headshots. I recently ran into probably the best widowmaker I ever saw, and even he was using a modified controller to do it. And I've literally never once ever ran into a widowmaker that can hold her own against any character that decides to come after her. I'm not talking about Winston or D.Va, I'm talking literally anyone. Even Lucio could probably beat her out.
As for changing position, honestly, I haven't seen anyone ever actually try that tactic, but I don't see it working, if for no other reason than the fact that characters in this game are highly visible. I don't see her getting anywhere without people spotting her unless there is already no one on the enemy team on the field to see, but I mean...one shot and immediately people know where you are, it's just a matter of whether they give a fuck enough to go.
Ana is a bad comparison because she has none of Widowmaker's weaknesses. To set herself up for a shot, Widow has to plant her feet on the ground, scope in, charge her shot up. Compare that to Ana, who can snipe without scoping in and can jump around and her scope is much faster than Widowmakers. Think of Widowmaker like a variation of Bastion's turret mode. She can send out the most powerful single shot of any weapon in the game, but she has to plant herself first, and she's stuck there unless she wants to give up that charged shot and go to somewhere else. Not Ana. She can fire her sniper shot, scoped or unscoped, at any time she wants. Because of that, Ana is actually far more nimble. It also means she can usually just hang out with the rest of the team and they protect her, while Widowmaker has to keep her distance, because you cannot stand still in a fight. But that comes with the problem that when you are spotted, you have no one to cover up your weaknesses.
Edit: Also another important note about Ana's ability to no-scope, it lets her keep her peripheral view. Widowmaker is so easy to sneak up on because she is scoped in most of the time. But she's encouraged to be scoped in because if she takes a moment to examine her surroundings, she'll need to recharge, and that could mean she missed a shot she could have made. As Widowmaker, you are constantly having to choose between being aware of your surroundings and holding your power. Ana doesn't have that problem. Her shot is her shot whether she's sniping or not.
But more importantly, when people come after Ana, she has recourses Widowmaker doesn't. She can sleepdart or grenade if someone is on her ass, and it's actually useful. Compare that to Widowmaker's two abilities. The grapple is the worst mobile ability of the game. She has to aim where she wants to go (taking her eyes off the intruder whose firing on her), she has to wait for it to fire and attach itself to something, and it telegraphs where she's gonna go so the enemy can fire along. Meanwhile, her mine does a pathetic 15 damage a second for 5 seconds. Widowmaker looks on Ana's abilities with desperate envy.
Which is why I think widow spidermaning around wouldn't be a problem. I mean, if Pharah isn't considered broken with how she flies around, then it seems ridiculous that Widowmaker would be, since her movement will be telegraphed and prevent her from firing as long as she's holding it. Being too slippery is possible, but she's pathetic as she is.
My only complain with Widowmaker is her ult, it just seems like a buffed version of Hanzo's. It is useful nonetheless, but a bit poor for an ult.
Recently I discovered this channel, he is pretty good with Widowmaker and it is always a joy watching him play her:
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCUGHabcIVqEiJAoDqcpSqyw
Recently I discovered this channel, he is pretty good with Widowmaker and it is always a joy watching him play her:
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCUGHabcIVqEiJAoDqcpSqyw
FieryBalrog
Member
Widowmaker sees a decent amount of play in pro-games right now
Had a match that started with 4 Tanks, Sym and an Ana today. Me (D.Va), Sym and Ana never had to switch. Other team never even got past the gate. Love defending that gate so much as D.Va. You have a variety of good spots to shoot from and a big medpack that's like a 5s tour until you're back on your spot.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hey guys, what's the best way to counter the triple and quad shield tactics I'm seeing these days? I'm out of the competitive loop.
Strong flankers? Coordinated Sombra ult pushes?
Strong flankers? Coordinated Sombra ult pushes?
xZoneHunter
Member
Finally hit diamond last night. Pretty proud of myself to be honest. Aiming for master now, but i have a feeling diamond is my peak.
I mean, the "git gud" argument is easy to make, but it's not really tenable in my opinion. This shit ain't dark souls. Sure, sniping is aiming and thus skill based, but widowmaker blows such chunks in literally every other respect, that it's just not a reasonable thing to just tell a person to do. I think her abilities should be buffed because every other character has useful abilities that can do more than just shoot shit, I don't understand why Widowmaker should only be relegated to shooting.
And when you factor in that on consoles, it's basically impossible to get the kind of precision you'd get with a mouse.
And that's not even looking at her nigh worthless ultimate.
FieryBalrog
Member
Honestly, not every character is for every skill level. Bastion is an example of the opposite more or less.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Maybe buff her on consoles, but fuuuuuuuuck buffing her on PC.
I've experienced way too many aimbot/smurfing widows to ever want her to be actually viable, because you know what's not fun? Barely able to make it out of the door because you just get instagibbed.
I've experienced way too many aimbot/smurfing widows to ever want her to be actually viable, because you know what's not fun? Barely able to make it out of the door because you just get instagibbed.
Do what you want with her on PC. But as is on console, she's possibly the only character that's actually more useful to not have. Better to 5v6 than 6v6 with Widow. Atleast that way, the enemy won't get free ult charge when they kill her.
Personally, I think her sniping should be left well enough alone for that exact reason. Instead, buff her abilities. Let her land more mines or atleast give it actually useful damage. Let her use her hook more so she has an actual chance of escape. Rework her ult so that it actually can do some damage instead of just being worthless half the time because they activate it when the enemy team is still spawning revealing the shocking fact that they are at their base.
Incendiary
Banned
Man Winston is just useless in the current meta. I tried to use him on attack expecting a Symmetra (there was) but he just can't excel where he normally did before. Between D.Va and her armor, 76 and his extra damage, and everyone generally having more health from either Sym or Torb, and he just gets chewed up too quickly to perform his distraction and disruption tactics. My poor monkey.
Also just had a match where I dropped Tracer's Pulse Bomb directly on a turret mode Bastion and it didn't kill him. I have no idea how that could have happened.
Also just had a match where I dropped Tracer's Pulse Bomb directly on a turret mode Bastion and it didn't kill him. I have no idea how that could have happened.
Uhm no. Widow has no place in a meta where she can't one shot 4 of the 6 heroes on the team. Not to mention she has to land headshots and there is a better one-shot kill character who just has tap someone with a hook that can be in the middle of a fight with 600 HP and a sustain ability. Body shots on characters like Widow and Hanzo are worthless too with Ana levels of healing. McCree and especially Soldier are so much more versatile and put out reliable damage which is more worth it than taking a risk running a Widow or Hanzo.
There is room for Widow on maps like Anubis (Hanzo for Kings), where the vantage points allow attempts to picks off a support if they are out of position. Widow works good on Anubis first point because if you force the enemies off the balcony and onto the point, Widow will be able secure picks much easier . The only issue being that she isn't as useful on the second point, and CP maps are focused on snowballing ults on that second point, running a Widow and switching off of her for second may not be a good idea with the current nature of CP because you lose all the ult you've built up when you could have used another DPS with a good ult to secure the second point.
Tank meta/Ana + The nature of Roadhog himself prohibits seeing more Widow/Hanzo play.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Nah, widow does get some play in a misfits style deep dive. You pretty much go widow to a) limit movement because the enemy team has to respect your sightlines, thus allowing tracer & genji to wreck havoc, and b) burst damage is still the best way to counter ana outside of another ana. Discord + widow + tracer genji running around you is a fuck ton of damage.
FieryBalrog
Member
Taimou literally played Widow in today's finals
Not to mention Misfits at Dreamhack where it was a core part of a dive comp that beat triple tank
also
Which one do you really mean
Here's a PS4 Widow if you want to see the possibilities of a console player. I'm not sure if he uses a modified controller but still watch it if you can. He also has full straight gameplay footage if you're interested in that as well.
With the charge rate buff I don't think scoping and unscoping to check out the surrounding is as big of a deal as you think it is. You can see in my previous clip and in the youtube video, quickly scoping in and out allows her to see the environment and choose her next target or identify possible threats and have her move.
A difference between Widow and Pharah is her possibility to kill someone outright with a hit scan weapon while Pharah needs two on a projectile weapon with travel time. But hey, if you want to give Widows a trick shot opportunity every several seconds, be my guest.
Here's a video discussing the positives of her on the current meta.
??? You said Widow get's a decent amount of pro-play but she's been hovering at less than 5% usage for the past 6 months, that to me is not decent. I gave you a situation where Widow can work, but it's a small portion of overall playtime in the pro scene.
Dive comps like Whippy suggested work too, I guess they could work, but not a lot of teams use that setup, and Misfits haven't been using it much at all since winning Dreamhack.
I think Widow is due for a complete rehaul like Symetra was. Personally, I'd love to see a Widow that's closer to the one we see in the shorts. As someone who has no idea of how balanced it would be I'd like to see the following changes:
- Widow is supposed to be super agile, she's done some crazy parcour moves in the "Alive" short. So give her something similar to Ninja Climb
- Rework her grappling hook to a tether; shoot it into a surface (wall, ceiling) to "stick" to that point and be able to shoot from there as long as you don't move
- Either give her a new Ult or increase the time it lasts.
Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Like it's not the top strategy really, it's kind of like a pocket strategy that you pull out as a mixup, but it works. People tend to substitute the widow in that equation with Dva for certain maps.
Like honestly, outside of the envyus triple tank setup this meta is more flexible than people think. Even envyus triple tank isn't insurmountable, it's just that they play it very well.
I also think quad tank is a super dumb and countered pretty heavily by dive comps, but NA teams seem more afraid to run dive than the korean teams do. I see quad tank fall apart constantly in korea.
They also had a massive roster change recently.
I also really don't want a dominant widow, to be clear. I think her being a surprise pick is where she belongs. Not overbearing but can help you snowball if you take them by surprise.
Like honestly, outside of the envyus triple tank setup this meta is more flexible than people think. Even envyus triple tank isn't insurmountable, it's just that they play it very well.
I also think quad tank is a super dumb and countered pretty heavily by dive comps, but NA teams seem more afraid to run dive than the korean teams do. I see quad tank fall apart constantly in korea.
They also had a massive roster change recently.
I also really don't want a dominant widow, to be clear. I think her being a surprise pick is where she belongs. Not overbearing but can help you snowball if you take them by surprise.
EDIT: ^Widow is very easily dealt with by multiple heroes though. I mean wouldn't a comp like Tracer + Widow + Genji be dealt with easily. Especially with teams who have capable Hogs, and going back to Widow a Winston could just put some pressure on her.
oh my bad, thought the switch happened before dreamhack
I agree Hanzo and Widow picks should be on the low-end. I think what she has right now is still too low though.
oh my bad, thought the switch happened before dreamhack
I agree Hanzo and Widow picks should be on the low-end. I think what she has right now is still too low though.
xaosslug
Member
basically like any character in the game? ;P
i do agree w/ you that her ult sux major nonkey ballz, tho.
i think this is mostly just a case of the ability envy when looking at the new characters being introduced...
I mean, I've seen videoes of good widows myself. I've met plenty that can perform some impressive trick shots. But that's not my argument here.
I feel that there is something deeply, seriously wrong with the argument of 'git gud' if only a tiny, fractional percentage of people even have the possibility of getting that good. I think I've put in more than 10 hours playing Widowmaker and I'm still worthless with her. I got a current score of around 3200, and I'm will be the first to say I'm nowhere near great at the game, but I think I can say I'm pretty decent, and I can't do shit with Widowmaker. And literally 99% of other players I see can't do shit with her either. That's not hyperbole, I'm seriously saying that if you were to grab the last 100 games I played, you'd probably find maybe 1 widowmaker that was even decent at getting kills AND staying alive while doing so.
But that's not the problem. I'm fine with leaving skill ceiling as high as it is, if you just give widowmaker some other utility. Buffing her abilities, rather than her sniping, would give that. Yeah, that will mean she'll stay alive longer, and thus get more kills, and once in a while get a trickshot kill....
But history tells me that that's not something I'm going to see especially often. I'd rather be able to rely on Widowmaker staying alive to distract enemies with body shots, venom mines, and maybe an ult that can actually do shit.
Similar threads
- Poll