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[Incendiary]

I don't know if I'm even going to bother playing attack on 2CP in QP unless I'm in a group. Attacking point Bs now are pretty much impossible without coordination. I charged a Mei with Rein two separate times and both times she survived and was able to freeze herself because she had so many hit points.

Reinhardt not being able to charge kill non-tanks is ridiculous!

 

[Veelk]

basically like any character in the game? ;P

No. No not at all.

You don't need to aim well if you're playing reaper, you just need to know how to close the distance. You don't need to aim if you're playing Winston, you need to know how to move through the battlefield. Junkrats get half their kills spamming grenades in the general direction of the battlefield, Symmetra's gun tracks the enemy, Roadhog blasts enemies faces that get close, Torbjorn's turret does the aiming for you, etc. You can do well with all these characters even if you have complete shit aiming, because Overwatch is a game where knowing the maps, the characters, and communicate with your team will give you far better results than mere good aiming. Aiming will help with all these characters too, of course, but you can have piss poor aim and still have plenty of viable options in which to contribute to the fight.

Then you have characters that ARE more aim dependent like Soldier, McCree, Genji and so on. But 1. they are both mobile and in far closer range, so even with them, aiming is only so difficult compared to the pixel hunting Widow has to do for headshots and 2. more importantly, they all have abilities that allow them to compensate for poor aiming. Soldier's ult is to become an Aimbot, Same with McCree and he can Fan the Hammer on a stunned enemy too, Genji can dash and has the dragon sword, none of which require aiming to be useful. They can be difficult to pull off because of positioning and circumstance, and you need to improve aiming to be useful consistently with these characters, but you can be shit at aiming and still contribute due to these abilities.

The second most aim-intensive character in the game is probably Hanzo, and even he has scattershot and his ult that can do work without good aiming. Ana too, but she has an easy time hitting her allies and has her grenade. Pharah you can argue is another, but her rockets have a generous range to them. It's not hard to spam them and get results. Plus, occasionally, she can people off ledges with her concussion blast.

Widowmaker is the only character in the game whose entire utility is based on being precise with her gun to a degree no other character is held to while also having nothing else to back her up in terms of abilities.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Had a comp game earlier where our Widow asked us to "keep genji/monkey off me" and at that point I'm like ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Shouta]

Man, playing Rein can be suffering in Solo Comp queue. Idiots don't cover you when your shield goes down despite having Mei on the team and then have the gall to complain.

 

[caesar]

I mean, I've seen videoes of good widows myself. I've met plenty that can perform some impressive trick shots. But that's not my argument here.

I feel that there is something deeply, seriously wrong with the argument of 'git gud' if only a tiny, fractional percentage of people even have the possibility of getting that good. I think I've put in more than 10 hours playing Widowmaker and I'm still worthless with her. I got a current score of around 3200, and I'm will be the first to say I'm nowhere near great at the game, but I think I can say I'm pretty decent, and I can't do shit with Widowmaker. And literally 99% of other players I see can't do shit with her either. That's not hyperbole, I'm seriously saying that if you were to grab the last 100 games I played, you'd probably find maybe 1 widowmaker that was even decent at getting kills AND staying alive while doing so.

But that's not the problem. I'm fine with leaving skill ceiling as high as it is, if you just give widowmaker some other utility. Buffing her abilities, rather than her sniping, would give that. Yeah, that will mean she'll stay alive longer, and thus get more kills, and once in a while get a trickshot kill....

But history tells me that that's not something I'm going to see especially often. I'd rather be able to rely on Widowmaker staying alive to distract enemies with body shots, venom mines, and maybe an ult that can actually do shit.

10 hours is nothing though. A lot of the best Widows are longtime CS players with over 10 years of aiming at pixels from long range. Her ult is pretty good and walking into her los while active is pretty much a death sentence. If she was buffed she would dominate the game and it would be unhealthy for it as a whole.

As for the aim intensive heroes, all the offensive ones are up there except for Reaper I guess. It's not really fair to compare them too much when they are hitscan/projectile and with different styles of aiming like tracking or flicking.

In other news, Nanohana's aim is crazy good.

 

[Veelk]

10 hours is nothing though. A lot of the best Widows are longtime CS players with over 10 years of aiming at pixels from long range. Her ult is pretty good and walking into her los while active is pretty much a death sentence. If she was buffed she would dominate the game and it would be unhealthy for it as a whole.

As for the aim intensive heroes, all the offensive ones are up there except for Reaper I guess. It's not really fair to compare them too much when they are hitscan/projectile and with different styles of aiming like tracking or flicking.

In other news, Nanohana's aim is crazy good.

Again, I feel there is something seriously wrong with the argument of "You just need to spend 10 years of practice before she becomes worthwhile to play as!" That makes her an incredibly unviable character. And, again, I have to emphasize: Even those characters have abilities that can compensate for bad aim, which is the real thing I think Widow is missing.

There is a goddamn limit of practicality to the 'git gud' argument.

And no, they are not anywhere near up there with Widowmaker. Even with non-hitscan, firing at an enemy whose 15 feet away is way easier than firing at one from 50 feet.

Also, CS was never played on consoles. Again, you can have all the back and forths of how Widow is balanced on PC where you have FAR greater precision control. It doesn't apply to thumbsticks. You can get good with thumbsticks, but the best Console player will generally be beaten out by the average PC player. That gap is huge.

 

[ISOM]

Again, I feel there is something seriously wrong with the argument of "You just need to spend 10 years of practice before she becomes worthwhile to play as!" That makes her an incredibly unviable character. And, again, I have to emphasize: Even those characters have abilities that can compensate for bad aim, which is the real thing I think Widow is missing.

There is a goddamn limit of practicality to the 'git gud' argument.

And no, they are not anywhere near up there with Widowmaker. Even with non-hitscan, firing at an enemy whose 15 feet away is way easier than firing at one from 50 feet.

Also, CS was never played on consoles. Again, you can have all the back and forths of how Widow is balanced on PC where you have FAR greater precision control. It doesn't apply to thumbsticks. You can get good with thumbsticks, but the best Console player will generally be beaten out by the average PC player. That gap is huge.

Every hero doesn't need to be viable in all games. She is a dangerous wild card and I think that is how Blizzard will and should keep her.

 

[Veelk]

Every hero doesn't need to be viable in all games. She is a dangerous wild card and I think that is how Blizzard will and should keep her.

Again, I have no idea what game your playing, but I'm guessing it's not on the PS4 or Xbone. You'd literally get more use out of a Torbjorn's turret without Torbjorn there than the typical Widowmaker player. She's as wild and dangerous a card as a blue eyes white dragon in a game of uno.

And second, I disagree. Every character SHOULD be as close to viable as they can be. Decreasing her grapple timer or increasing the amount of mines she can land won't overpower her.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I wish widow maker's ult was more interesting / more integral to a good team comp

Her wall hacking is fine i guess but it only benefits a few characters the most, there are enough ways to see where people are that it doesn't feel particularly useful, especially with good communication.

I think out of all the characters she's probably the one that needs a second ult the most.

Maybe something where her shots are always criticals so she can clear points effectively which would make her great in a lot more situations. Or maybe something else where she offers her team criticals no matter what body part they hit for 4 seconds.

 

[ISOM]

Again, I have no idea what game your playing, but I'm guessing it's not on the PS4 or Xbone. You'd literally get more use out of a Torbjorn's turret without Torbjorn there. She's as wild and dangerous a card as a the blue eyes white dragon in a game of uno.

If Blizzard wants to buff her on console, then I don't care. But leave PC Widow alone.

 

[cyborg009]

I still haven't lost a game with symmetra yet.

AND FINALLY DIAMOND!!!!!!!!

 

[Incitemaybe]

Is there a bug where Sombra's hacked health packs never deplete? I was just playing the last point on route 66 in QP and I had every health pack hacked..... forever. Strange.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah it's a 100% replicatable bug right now.

 

[Incitemaybe]

Interesting, I have no idea how it happened but it just happened again.

 

[Illucio]

I wish widow maker's ult was more interesting / more integral to a good team comp

Her wall hacking is fine i guess but it only benefits a few characters the most, there are enough ways to see where people are that it doesn't feel particularly useful, especially with good communication.

I think out of all the characters she's probably the one that needs a second ult the most.

Maybe something where her shots are always criticals so she can clear points effectively which would make her great in a lot more situations. Or maybe something else where she offers her team criticals no matter what body part they hit for 4 seconds.

The problem with her character is:

1. Snipers are too easy to spot and do very little damage. One shot one kill? More like 10 shots no kill.

2. It's too hard to aim and shoot with these characters when characters are constantly moving.

3. To stand still in order to get a close aim is a death sentence since it's too easy to be spotted. She has no invisibility whatsoever, one shot and we can see exactly where she is shooting by following the tail of the shot right after.

So my suggestions to buff Widowmaker

1. Increase her rifle damage at longer distances.

2. Create a second ult is to be able to make a radius/bubble where any character within this radius/bubble turns invisible for a short amount of time. This helps both offense and defense. The invisibility should only last at least one minute.

3. Lower her hook's cool down so she can get around much easier. She should be able to quickly get to an out of reach area and take base kill an enemy or two then get out.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

The comp ascent upwards is slowwwwwwwwww.

 

[Anne]

Mickie signing with Envy is <3

 

[ZealousD]

Man, playing Rein can be suffering in Solo Comp queue. Idiots don't cover you when your shield goes down despite having Mei on the team and then have the gall to complain.

The goal is to always try and get out of LOS of the enemy and step to the side before your shield fully depletes. When you're off to the side like that that's a signal to your team that your shield is recharging. The opposing team may take that as a signal to push forward so you want to set yourself up for a pin while the shield is recharging, ideally in a T-Bone kind of way so that immediately once you pin you can start swinging your hammer at the other team..

As a Reinhardt, it is always your job to protect your team. You should never expect the rest of your team to protect you because even with your shield down they are generally squishier than you.

 

[Anne]

wtf

 

[Antiwhippy]

My playstyle with rein is Shield Shield shield and when it breaks I'mma charge in yolo. and on defense it's to bait the other rein's charge always.

Sometimes it doesn't really work very well mostly because solo q peeps are deathly afraid of team fights for some reason, but I feel like it's better to initiate a team fight and see what happens from there.

wtf

I posted that here like 2 times.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Eichenwalde. Where my shitty teams go to die at the chokepoint.

 

[Anne]

I posted that here like 2 times.

hoooowwwwwwwww though

Why can't I do that ;~;

 

[BigDug13]

Again, I have no idea what game your playing, but I'm guessing it's not on the PS4 or Xbone. You'd literally get more use out of a Torbjorn's turret without Torbjorn there than the typical Widowmaker player. She's as wild and dangerous a card as a blue eyes white dragon in a game of uno.

And second, I disagree. Every character SHOULD be as close to viable as they can be. Decreasing her grapple timer or increasing the amount of mines she can land won't overpower her.

People who use a mouse on PS4 do damn well with her. The changes you're suggesting would affect her seemingly balanced placement on PC. Suggest console specific changes if you're complaining about her use on console.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

People who use a mouse on PS4 are also scum.

 

[Antiwhippy]

hoooowwwwwwwww though

Why can't I do that ;~;

His play during the korean comp was pretty insane though. Like not just hitscan, he was popping off on genji and mei too.

Like that one soldier clip of his is so insane that it looks like aimbotting.

 

[Veelk]

People who use a mouse on PS4 do damn well with her. The changes you're suggesting would affect her seemingly balanced placement on PC. Suggest console specific changes if you're complaining about her use on console.

Maybe I didn't mention it already now, but go out to mention my experience with her on console because that's what I play, so naturally I mean the buffs for her to go through on console.

That said, I don't think buffs for her on PC would be out of place. It's not like she's getting much action there either. But I leave that for the PC players to quibble over.

 

[Sande]

Widowmaker would be in a way better place on consoles if the scoped aiming was half as good as in most other shooters. The sensitivity, acceleration etc. are pretty good overall in OW but Widowmaker's aim feels weirdly stiff and awkward scoped in.

 

[maomaoIYP]

Is there a bug where Sombra's hacked health packs never deplete? I was just playing the last point on route 66 in QP and I had every health pack hacked..... forever. Strange.

Interesting, I have no idea how it happened but it just happened again.

It's a new glitch. Just hack a hacked health pack and it will never deplete. Abusable as hell.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I think a good place to start would be if hanzo and widowmaker picks would just not make everyone groan.

 

[Anne]

His play during the korean comp was pretty insane though. Like not just hitscan, he was popping off on genji and mei too.

Like that one soldier clip of his is so insane that it looks like aimbotting.

I need to upgrade my aimbot then, got it ;^;

Edit: Widow is extremely good on PC atm btw, pls no buffs.

 

[MartyStu]

I think a good place to start would be if hanzo and widowmaker picks would just not make everyone groan.

Hanzo can at least be made a more desirable pick by messing with some of his numbers, Widowmaker needs a design overhaul.

 

[Shouta]

The goal is to always try and get out of LOS of the enemy and step to the side before your shield fully depletes. When you're off to the side like that that's a signal to your team that your shield is recharging. The opposing team may take that as a signal to push forward so you want to set yourself up for a pin while the shield is recharging, ideally in a T-Bone kind of way so that immediately once you pin you can start swinging your hammer at the other team..

As a Reinhardt, it is always your job to protect your team. You should never expect the rest of your team to protect you because even with your shield down they are generally squishier than you.

I know how to play Reinhardt. He's my most used hero. Having a Mei at a chokepoint on defense is the prime time to drop an Ice Wall to block off the enemy and give Rein time to heal his shield. If Mei is not doing that, than she's a waste of a slot on defense. I mean, what else are you going to do with the Ice Wall?

wtf

....wat

 

[Antiwhippy]

Hanzo is honestly where he should be. The tank meta doesn't suit him but if things shift against the tank heavy meta he'll still be in a good spot.

Hell, even back when it was rein/zarya/hog he was used a lot. DVa just kind fucks his shit up quite a bit, but she does that to all range heroes.

I know how to play Reinhardt. He's my most used hero. Having a Mei at a chokepoint on defense is the prime time to drop an Ice Wall to block off the enemy and give Rein time to heal his shield. If Mei is not doing that, than she's a waste of a slot on defense. I mean, what else are you going to do with the Ice Wall?

Split the enemy team up at the choke point for easy picks.

That's like the major reason of running a mei in choke heavy maps.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Hanzo can at least be made a more desirable pick by messing with some of his numbers, Widowmaker needs a design overhaul.

Yeah that's true, also hanzo is actually pretty effective in a forward position, he can work as a kinda makeshift mccree, his shatter arrow can quickly delete an opponent and his sonar arrow is really useful.

His ult is also really handy at blocking off reinforcements or for clearing a point.

Widowmaker actually does nothing.

 

[ISOM]

I know how to play Reinhardt. He's my most used hero. Having a Mei at a chokepoint on defense is the prime time to drop an Ice Wall to block off the enemy and give Rein time to heal his shield. If Mei is not doing that, than she's a waste of a slot on defense. I mean, what else are you going to do with the Ice Wall?



....wat

Meis should be looking to wall off and split the enemy team at chokepoints more than looking out for Rein's shield.

 

[Anne]

Widowmaker actually does nothing.

I refute this! Widow deals tons of damage with a huge range of influence, and single picks win fights. It's happened in pro play even in a meta that doesn't suit her, it happens on comp ladder all the time, and it will keep on happening.

Idk what console looks like, but all the tools and numbers are there for her to be good. Same with Handsoap. Every pro I talked to about meta think that if Ana ever gets nerfed Hanzo/Widow will start to be pretty good.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Handsoap will the answer to the tank meta.

 

[Shouta]

Split the enemy team up at the choke point for easy picks.

That's like the major reason of running a mei in choke heavy maps.

Meis should be looking to wall off and split the enemy team at chokepoints more than looking out for Rein's shield.

It's the same thing in this situation, it's not either or. Properly spacing a wall will split the team and cover Rein at chokepoints. Besides, if they don't move forward then you can't really setup picks.

Edit: Their comp was Rein, Zarya, D.Va, S76, Lucio, and Ana, pretty standard but they were all stacked closely. We had Mei and Genji in lieu of a 3rd tank. So basically nothing going out, all coming in.

 

[MartyStu]

I refute this! Widow deals tons of damage with a huge range of influence, and single picks win fights. It's happened in pro play even in a meta that doesn't suit her, it happens on comp ladder all the time, and it will keep on happening.

Idk what console looks like, but all the tools and numbers are there for her to be good. Same with Handsoap. Every pro I talked to about meta think that if Ana ever gets nerfed Hanzo/Widow will start to be pretty good.

What does Ana's absence from the meta have anything to do with Hanzo and Widowmaker?

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I refute this! Widow deals tons of damage with a huge range of influence, and single picks win fights. It's happened in pro play even in a meta that doesn't suit her, it happens on comp ladder all the time, and it will keep on happening.

Idk what console looks like, but all the tools and numbers are there for her to be good. Same with Handsoap. Every pro I talked to about meta think that if Ana ever gets nerfed Hanzo/Widow will start to be pretty good.

I think the problem with widow maker is actually that unless the person piloting her is ridiculously good she contributes very little because her toolkit brings very little. Her mine is either used for finishing people off / an anti flanking device, her ult is kinda useful for her team but mostly used for her to get more picks, her hook is really just a positioning device because of its long cool down. A very average widowmaker might as well just pick mccree and will end up contributing much more. I'm not really talking in pro play I just means in casual gold / plat matches where the majority of players are at. Because you're right, a ridiculous widow will be able to clear a point like nothing, and create insane opportunities for their team and turn bad situations around. It's just that you can't expect everyone picking widow to be that person.

I guess I never thought about this but that kind of has to be a huge dilemma for blizzard. Do they balance around pro play so they can cultivate the game as an esport, or balance the game around where the majority of their players are at so as to keep their player base having fun.

 

[Tyrant Rave]

Widow is finally good again after months of being sniper-Bastion. I wouldn't mind a buff to the grappling hook but her scope speed and charge time are exactly where they need to be for her to be viable. That initial nerf post-launch really hurt her and made her borderline useless.

 

[Veelk]

I refute this! Widow deals tons of damage with a huge range of influence, and single picks win fights. It's happened in pro play even in a meta that doesn't suit her, it happens on comp ladder all the time, and it will keep on happening.

Idk what console looks like, but all the tools and numbers are there for her to be good. Same with Handsoap. Every pro I talked to about meta think that if Ana ever gets nerfed Hanzo/Widow will start to be pretty good.

If people hated him when he was tossing tree trucks, I don't see how he'd suddenly be favored now.

And tools being there doesn't really matter if there is no one (or close to no one) capable of using them. Sniping, espeically in this game, for the reasons Illucio outlined, is really damn hard. And I just don't see a few more venom mines and a more useful grapple actually making her broken. It will just let her do something other than snipe.

 

[Trey]

What does Ana's absence from the meta have anything to do with Hanzo and Widowmaker?

her healing capability. body shots might as well be mosquito bites with ana's burst healing

 

[Antiwhippy]

On the other hand a good widow is a fucking ordeal to deal with at lower levels too where they don't really know how to counter it.

I think most players at that level don't want to have to deal with a widow.

 

[ISOM]

I think the problem with widow maker is actually that unless the person piloting her is ridiculously good she contributes very little because her toolkit brings very little. Her mine is either used for finishing people off / an anti flanking device, her ult is kinda useful for her team but mostly used for her to get more picks, her hook is really just a positioning device because of its long cool down. A very average widowmaker might as well just pick mccree and will end up contributing much more. I'm not really talking in pro play I just means in casual gold / plat matches where the majority of players are at. Because you're right, a ridiculous widow will be able to clear a point like nothing, and create insane opportunities for their team and turn bad situations around. It's just that you can't expect everyone picking widow to be that person.

I guess I never thought about this but that kind of has to be a huge dilemma for blizzard. Do they balance around pro play so they can cultivate the game as an esport, or balance the game around where the majority of their players are at so as to keep their player base having fun.

If you don't have the aim to fully utilize Widow's one shot ability then you probably shouldn't pick her. Mccree is the same way in that if you can't aim don't pick him. Both are such deadly heros but they require great precision to fully utilize and I don't think buffing them to counter bad aiming from casuals is smart.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Yeah if you're bad at aiming you shouldn't pick sniper for any FPS really.

I learnt this the hard way with battlefield.

 

[MotionBlue]

I learned how great using Roadhog melee to fake out hooks are today.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Opened Mei-rry tonight. So I've opened the Christmas skins for Reaper, Mei, Lucio, and Zenyatta now. Pretty darn good luck for the first week I'd say.

 

[MartyStu]

On the other hand a good widow is a fucking ordeal to deal with at lower levels too where they don't really know how to counter it.

I think most players at that level don't want to have to deal with a widow.

Part of the problem with accurate Widows is that they require counterpicking and some coordination. This is often not an option in QP.

There is also the fact that if they are accurate enough, they can even be boring to have on your side.

Personally, I think sniping on widow should be be like sniping on Ana: something you do in between your real job. I am not sure what Blizzard can do to make this a thing.

 

[Veelk]

If you don't have the aim to fully utilize Widow's one shot ability then you probably shouldn't pick her. Mccree is the same way in that if you can't aim don't pick him. Both are such deadly heros but they require great precision to fully utilize and I don't think buffing them to counter bad aiming from casuals is smart.

McCree is one of the more aiming intensive heroes, sure. Not his demand for precision is nothing fucking close to Widowmakers. There's no equivalent in terms of demand for precision for Widowmaker. Hell, just the fact that your mainly dealing with mid-close range fights mean that precision is much easier anyway.

And more than that, if your not good aiming, you still have options. You can still stun. You can still fan the hammer. You still have Deadeye. If McCree can still work despite these filthy casual newb safety bumpers in place, I'm sure Widow can as well.