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[BlueTsunami]

I like how you've made it into sides.

CLASS WARFARE MOTHA'SUCKA

But people already formulated an opinion before even looking into why OWS was doing this and who they've aligned themselves with

 

[Something Wicked]

well lets see:
-both protest in a mostly legal fashion
-everybody already knows what they have to say
-all they are doing currently is upsetting more people

I guess Westboro has a definitive message and agenda.

Also, I think most members of the WBC know what they are saying is absolute bullshit, and entirely try to goad people to attack them for lawsuits. On the other hand, I think most members of the OWS actually believe the crap they spew.

I am shocked the Oakland guys took it. I mean you are in danger of getting shivved at a Raiders game.....by one of the cheerleaders.

Haha, I'm surprised as well. Then again, when most of the OWS kids have their iPhone cameras rolling 24/7 and scream bloody murder at the slightest shove, I suppose it's best for truckers and longshoremen to cut their losses for the day and hope they can get to work without the chance of being sued for haymakering a few hippies.

 

[TooManyCircles]

Out of curiosity, directed at the opponents of the movement, do you really think the movement is baseless in its feelings and nothing needs to change?

I was initially for the movement. I saw great promise in it because I thought it would encourage financial reform through political reform. I thought that, finally, there would be enough dirt kicked up for the government to enforce regulations that were undone nearly two decades ago, I thought that a peaceful protest with sheer numbers could incite the SEC to do its damn job.

What I see now is a movement with no message, no clear goal, no leaders, and causing harm to the people it tries to defend.

Change can happen, we've seen it in the past. How it happens depends on who wants it the most.

 

[Ganhyun]

People will probably gloss over this. They've already chosen sides! Sounds like an awful industry to work in, but somebody has got to do it.

Yea, it sucks.

I like how you've made it into sides.

Well, you're either for OWS or you are against it and a corporate suck up!

CLASS WARFARE MOTHA'SUCKA

lol Blue

 

[TemplaerDude]

Out of curiosity, directed at the opponents of the movement, do you really think the movement is baseless in its feelings and nothing needs to change?

I thought OWS was a pretty interesting idea and a good way of trying to get some much needed change done.

Then I saw the same "movement" up here in Vancouver where they just plopped down in front of the art gallery, like every other useless fucking protest in this city, and turned it into an extended 4/20, and that is when I lost a lot of respect for it.

If this movement wants to be taken any more seriously, it needs a leader and it needs some clearly defined goals. Shutting down the ports is utterly useless and counterproductive.

 

[Tapiozona]

The open letter was a good read and I can't say I disagree with much of it. Did find one part kind of funny.

We are the skilled, specially-licensed professionals who guarantee that Target, Best Buy, and Wal-Mart are all stocked with just-in-time delivery for consumers. Take a look at all the stuff in your house. The things you see advertised on TV. Chances are a port truck driver brought that special holiday gift to the store you bought it.

Sorry, but you're a truck driver. Your job is considered unskilled labor.

 

[Technosteve]

I think the movement is really ineffective in having a message that's coherent, or realistic. To me I view them as over privileged children being idealistic, if they want to incite change they should look at the civil rights movement.

 

[Cat Party]

This is coming on the heals of Occupy SF getting humiliated when it was discovered one lady they were championing as a victim of predatory lending had refinanced her house 5 times in 5 years and taken out around $400,000 in equity prior to being foreclosed on.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Sorry, but you're a truck driver. Your job is considered unskilled labor.

Cool, I guess anyone can drive a 16 wheeler and dock it. I mean, it can't be much different than my Prius.

 

[Door2Dawn]

Congrats, you just killed your movement. Give yourselves around of applause OWS protesters!

 

[Riddick]

Here's an interesting open letter from America's port truck drivers on what's going on.

Thanks for the link, very interesting stuff. I guess the 150 workers not working for a day seems like a ridiculous little problem now, doesn't it? Big picture and all that...

 

[Freshmaker]

Out of curiosity, directed at the opponents of the movement, do you really think the movement is baseless in its feelings and nothing needs to change?

What exactly are they trying to accomplish here?

How will this get banks regulated? How will get this get the criminals who plunged the world into this financial spiral prosecuted?

Wasn't that supposed to be the point? Now it's just down to randomly punishing rich people?

 

[Salmonax]

Haha, I'm surprised as well. Then again, when most of the OWS kids have their iPhone cameras rolling 24/7 and scream bloody murder at the slightest shove, I suppose it's best for truckers and longshoremen to cut their losses for the day and hope they can get to work without the chance of being sued for haymakering a few hippies.

Why would they "haymaker a few hippies" if many of the dock workers and truck drivers are seemingly sympathetic of the OWS cause? I'm not following the logic.

 

[Gaborn]

Whoever wins this battle, we lose. Govt(/business) wins.

You didn't ask me if they would be effective though. You asked if anything needs to change. Speaking as a libertarian the answer is an emphatic yes.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

Why would they "haymaker a few hippies" if many of the dock workers and truck drivers are seemingly sympathetic of the OWS cause? I'm not following the logic.

Just parroting tired (and often disproved) cliches is all. Now how about Obama and that teleprompter of his?

 

[Tapiozona]

Cool, I guess anyone can drive a 16 wheeler and dock it. I mean, it can't be much different than my Prius.

Pretty much. You think truck driver school is that difficult? How many college graduates go into truck driving? What kind of people do you think typically go into that line of work. So yes, it is unskilled labor.

Is the guy driving a tractor on a farm any different? I mean a tractor is a lot bigger than my Prius. How about a school bus driver? Buses are really big. And full of kids.

 

[FStop7]

Ya there's been about 19 posts about it before yours. Thanks though!

The open letter was a good read and I can't say I disagree with much of it. Did find one part kind of funny.



Sorry, but you're a truck driver. Your job is considered unskilled labor.

Pretty much. You think truck driver school is that difficult? How many college graduates go into truck driving? What kind of people do you think typically go into that line of work. So yes, it is unskilled labor.

Is the guy driving a tractor on a farm any different? I mean a tractor is a lot bigger than my Prius. How about a school bus driver? Buses are really big. And full of kids.

Ass ignorant AND surly! A winning combination. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Joates]

You didn't ask me if they would be effective though. You asked if anything needs to change. Speaking as a libertarian the answer is an emphatic yes.

And there I believe is the crux of the opponents argument which I tend to agree with, what is happening right now isnt going to change a damn thing, but Im not going to shit on the movement and tell them to give up and pretend the issues dont exist. Which seems to be a lot of opponents viewpoints.

If I had a dime for every time someone told me "if they would try to occupy a job instead of wallstreet Derp"...

 

[Gaborn]

Pretty much. You think truck driver school is that difficult? How many college graduates go into truck driving? What kind of people do you think typically go into that line of work. So yes, it is unskilled labor.

Is the guy driving a tractor on a farm any different? I mean a tractor is a lot bigger than my Prius. How about a school bus driver? Buses are really big. And full of kids.

I don't think you know what "unskilled" means. Essentially that refers to anyone can basically walk in off the street and do the job. As you say truck drivers require special training.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Pretty much. You think truck driver school is that difficult? How many college graduates go into truck driving? What kind of people do you think typically go into that line of work. So yes, it is unskilled labor.

Is the guy driving a tractor on a farm any different? I mean a tractor is a lot bigger than my Prius. How about a school bus driver? Buses are really big. And full of kids.

That finger in your avatar should really be pointing to your name.

 

[Tapiozona]

I don't think you know what "unskilled" means. Essentially that refers to anyone can basically walk in off the street and do the job. As you say truck drivers require special training.

Every single job on the planet requires some form of training. Even the school bus driver went through training as did the deep fryer at Mcdonalds. I just don't consider those to be skilled positions.

 

[Baraka in the White House]

And there I believe is the crux of the opponents argument which I tend to agree with, what is happening right now isnt going to change a damn thing, but Im not going to shit on the movement and tell them to give up and pretend the issues dont exist. Which seems to be a lot of opponents viewpoints.

If I had a dime for every time someone told me "if they would try to occupy a job instead of wallstreet Derp"...

That's my main beef with many OWS opponents. I don't think shutting down ports is the way to go at all but I believe and have stated repeatedly that whatever organization, energy and momentum they can gather needs to be channeled in more effective ways that don't antagonize those they claim to support. And many have agreed, but others just say something to the effect of HURR DURR HOPE THEY HURT HIPPIES.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Every single job on the planet requires some form of training. Even the school bus driver went through training as did the deep fryer at Mcdonalds. I just don't consider those to be skilled positions.

That makes absolutely no sense. If it requires training beyond 30 minutes of showing the quirks of the offices particular copier machine then its a skilled position. Just because any person regardless of class and education can learn the position, in time, doesn't make it unskilled.

 

[SapientWolf]

Here's an interesting open letter from America's port truck drivers on what's going on.

This is more nuanced than "OWS shuts down port." This letter suggests that OWS has the tacit approval of a group of truckers.

 

[Slayven]

This is coming on the heals of Occupy SF getting humiliated when it was discovered one lady they were championing as a victim of predatory lending had refinanced her house 5 times in 5 years and taken out around $400,000 in equity prior to being foreclosed on.

Details?

 

[bill gonorrhea]

This does really affect the longshoreman, more the truck drivers. Most truck drivers are independently owned and operated and are contracted by the companies that operate out of the port. Most are paid by the container...

 

[Cat Party]

Details?

Sorry, took me a minute to find it: http://blog.sfgate.com/ontheblock/2...-homeowner-who-used-her-home-as-a-piggy-bank/

 

[kamspy]

Occupy expensive department stores.

But don't only blame the protesters people. The company I work for is a piece of shit, but we still get paid if we miss a work day due to crazy shit happening. Even the hourly guys.

 

[Eteric Rice]

http://cleanandsafeports.org/blog/2011/12/12/an-open-letter-from-america%E2%80%99s-port-truck-drivers-on-occupy-the-ports/

Jesus Christ man, that's terrible.

 

[NullPointer]

Good for OWS.

You need shows of strength and solidarity with the threat of more for anything to start happening.

Yes its disruptive, but any protest for change is.

 

[ameratsu]

Here's an interesting open letter from America's port truck drivers on what's going on.

Interesting read, thanks for sharing.

 

[Piggus]

They're doing it here in Portland, too. It's a mess.

My neighbors here in southern Oregon own a small condo in Portland, and the occupy people were protesting there against condo owners. So stupid. There are plenty of good things about the movement and all but some of those people are just bitter art history majors who are pissed that the only job they can get is at the coffee shop down the street.

 

[ReBurn]

I don't understand how this impacts Wall Street.

 

[Sanky Panky]

Here's an interesting open letter from America's port truck drivers on what's going on.

Ok GAF feel free to question the effectiveness of OWS versus financials and politicians, but I am glad now about what's going on at the port.

The good side of OWS is that people can use it as a banner to band together. Unfortunately, it also carries a negative image now, so many will dismiss these occupiers as hippy loons with nothing better to do.

That letter should not be a lost link in the thread. It should have been the OP.

 

[travisbickle]

I know a lot of people that bring that kind of money in as a combined household. Most of them don't come from money either. It's not like they are the ones holding anyone down. Maybe the top .2 percent is or something, but not at that cutoff point.

At this point in my life we are pulling in like a quarter of that for our household, it wouldn't be hard to get close to the 1% really within the next 20 years. It would literally just take time, work, dedication, and smart decisions.

That's the whole point.

I'm not surprised people on GAF are clueless looking at the inability to comprehend tax brackets, but they can't even understand percentages either?

It's the accumulation of wealth within 1% of the country, if more people were able to attain wages of 100,000 plus it wouldn't be 99 vs 1 and we wouldn't be having protests!! I think the top 10% hold 80% of the wealth of the country, the distribution is horrible.

 

[Myansie]

so why don't they pick a big bank, like say, BOA, and just block the HQ or at least a prominent branch? I just don't understand what good they've accomplished at a fucking boat dock of all places.

Exactly, this action is useless. If anything it pulls the message farther away from the end goal and legitimises the right's complaints. I don't understand why you would be angry with the docks. They had no part in the GFC or America's growing inequality.

 

[daw840]

That's the whole point.

I'm not surprised people on GAF are clueless looking at the inability to comprehend tax brackets, but they can't even understand percentages either?

It's the accumulation of wealth within 1% of the country, if more people were able to attain wages of 100,000 plus it wouldn't be 99 vs 1 and we wouldn't be having protests!! I think the top 10% hold 80% of the wealth of the country, the distribution is horrible.

I completely understand tax brackets, so I don't know how that is applicable to me. Not sure how to fix the rest of it, I know punishing those who work hard for what they make is not the answer.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

To be fair, they hardly get any hours, so some of them have to resort to smuggling Russian prostitutes into the country in large shipping crates. Sometimes, the air pipe gets bent and the crate gets left in the stacks and the prostitutes die. Then Lieutenant Daniels gets stuck with over a dozen bodies and no leads.

These things affect everyone.

This is brilliant.

 

[travisbickle]

I completely understand tax brackets, so I don't know how that is applicable to me. Not sure how to fix the rest of it, I know punishing those who work hard for what they make is not the answer.

The protests are about the distribution of wealth. How many more people can you fit into the top 1%? If we all sat down and dedicated our lives to earning more it wouldn't become the top 20%, 30%, 50%. It's called the top 1% because 99% of the population are getting exploited, not because 1% are more hardworking.

And if you want to read about punishing those who work hard, read the article posted about the treatment f port workers by their employers.

LINK

 

[AiTM]

They actually are. They make well over 100,000 a year.

100k a year isnt top 1%

and how funny is it to think of dockworkers as the top upper class thats holding down the poor

 

[Slayven]

Ok GAF feel free to question the effectiveness of OWS versus financials and politicians, but I am glad now about what's going on at the port.

The good side of OWS is that people can use it as a banner to band together. Unfortunately, it also carries a negative image now, so many will dismiss these occupiers as hippy loons with nothing better to do.

That letter should not be a lost link in the thread. It should have been the OP.

In the article there is a quote from a trucker, he obviously didn't get the memo.

 

[notsol337]

I would be rushing financial buildings and have everyone tie themselves to furniture and dump animal blood all over the desks if I was in OWS.

Occupying parks and ports isn't my style. I want a movement that has some balls.

If someone dumped animal blood over my desk, there would be violence.

 

[notworksafe]

In the article there is a quote from a trucker, he obviously didn't get the memo.

Not to mention that truckers aren't the only people who work at the port.

 

[alphaNoid]

Bunch of misguided morons...

Exactly how I feel

Good for OWS.

 

[Captain Sparrow]

It's pretty bad that I was in the top 50% before I even graduated college.

This movement is a complete and utter joke. Are there some good ideals behind it? Yes. Other than that, it's a mess. What is being accomplished by protesting outside banks and everyone closing their account? Is the bank supposed to go under?

This protest does not teach anyone to work harder. All it shows is that everyone in America is being oppressed by the evil rich.

 

[Mortrialus]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/12/12/BAJK1MBE5E.DTL&tsp=1



Sickening. Can't they figure out a constructive way to protest without causing harm to those their supposedly fighting for?

What were they thinking?

 

[sphagnum]

This protest does not teach anyone to work harder. All it shows is that everyone in America is being oppressed by the evil rich.

Yes, and?

 

[BigDug13]

Shouldn't they be occupying the white collar sections...like financial areas with lots of people who create NOTHING of value but still make well into 6 figures minimum?

 

[ClassyPenguin]

Living in the vicinity of the LA harbor has made me not be a fan of unions. This stinks of their work.

 

[DiscoJer]

They should be occupying the White House first and foremost, then Congress (both houses).

The biggest problem it that the government is taking tax money mostly from the middle class and giving it to corporations - by way of bailouts, guaranteed loans, or sometimes just advance information. And letting them write the regulatory bills and such.

Corporations have so much power because the government sells it to them, they don't have it in of themselves. Big business and government work hand in hand, to drive away any competition and steal money from taxpayers.

That said, this specific issue here is caused by simply too many people for too little work. The rules of supply and demand work for the labor market, just like anything else. You want working conditions and salaries to improve? Then make sure you can't be easily replaced.

Artificial laws and regulations will only drive up the price the rest of the country pays for stuff, while the unemployed become greater and greater.