OXM: Why splitting Xbox One's OS RAM allocation is good for developers

mocoworm

Member
Has this been posted?

How Xbox One's operating systems work - why splitting the RAM is good for developers and gamers

Click link for FULL 3 PAGE article:

http://www.oxm.co.uk/59251/features/how-xbox-ones-operating-systems-work-why-splitting-the-ram-is-good-for-developers-and-gamers/?page=1

"Xbox One offers a total of eight gigabytes of RAM, a stupendous leap over its predecessor's 512 MB - but around three gigabytes of this is set aside for entertainment apps, system-wide Kinect features and communication tools like Skype, which run in parallel to games. Naturally, this has provoked a certain amount of upset among those who'd rather each and every byte of memory was set aside for the sole, exclusive purpose of (e.g.) rendering every fold in Batman's cape.

According to Xbox's director of development Boyd Multerer, however, that kind of all-or-nothing thinking simply isn't reflective of the myriad functionality players now expect of their consoles. Xbox One's operating system setup, he argued, is an attempt to reconcile this hunger for supposedly "peripheral" features with the stability developers require of console hardware. Speaking to us shortly before the console's reveal, Multerer explained Microsoft's thinking in greater depth: how it built Xbox One to have both a fixed games platform for developers to target, and something more flexible for rapidly-changing apps of the moment - rather than trying to cram the latter into the former, as with Xbox 360's unloved Twitter app.



Here is the end of the article:


Those still disgruntled by the withholding of RAM that might be devoted exclusively to sharper gun renders may be mollified by the following: those simultaneously-running apps could form part of the game in some way. Developer fondness for networked features such as DICE's Battlelog services shows no sign of abating, and it's possible the Windows-based partition might handle certain of these services in future.

"You start thinking of it like "ah, okay, the game developer could really focus on the 3D world, focus on the art and the money they put into it, have this look beautiful," mused Multerer, "While working with a set of apps over here that allows us to have different surfaces, hook into social systems, to add value beyond the 3D world of the game, flip back and forth quickly between them.

"And you end up with a vibrant, changing world that can handle the innovation and the pace of change over on the internet, all the start-ups, that sort of stuff - but can still work with the games, that need the predictability, that need the optimization, that need to make sure they're spending their money on the right things."
"
 
Can you feel that? They're coming.

tumblr_lunt92GhbX1r6984go1_400.gif
 
At least this gives a look into their reasoning for setting up the system resources the way they have. I'll check out the full article in a bit.
 
Whatevs for both systems. When I use a console function, by pressing the xbox button, or share button or whatever, I want that thing to REACT. Not think about it for 5 seconds. As long as they both do that then what is the big deal?
 
But does that make development more complicated/difficult?

(I'm not making a statement, I'm actually asking.)

I don't know. From what we've heard the RAM split on the Xbox One seems much less complicated than the RAM split on the PS4.

I think Microsoft is grossly overestimating people's desire to run non-entertainment apps on their TV.

I'm not so sure about that. In terms of 'future-proofing' opening up the platform to game/app developers of all sizes seems to be the best way to ensure you don't miss out on that "Next-big-thing". As soon as Apple gets around to releasing their iTV this will become much much more apparent.
 
It just talks about how they split ram between windows and games and because of this, they believe they have something for everyone, like Skyping and gaming, TV and gaming, Social media etc.

A balancing act to them. Basically I don't think they can lower that 3GB towards Games because the app side is a big focus too.
 
official xbox magazine.

so this is the official version of events.

Where is that Iraqi minister of information gif? We need an Orwell gif too, btw.
 
According to Cerny, the #1 request of developers was a unified RAM pool. I would venture a guess that you would be correct.

Well I think you're confusing two separate RAM-centered things. The unified pool is in contrast to the two different pools on the PS3; one for GPU and one for CPU. Restricting RAM amount (5GB for games and 3GB for OS/apps in case of X1) is basically saying how big the pool is, not giving you different pools.
 
At work and can't access article. Is the article talking about splitting RAM between the OS and Game partitions or something else?
 
"When this one weapon is too strong, it's too easy to beat the bad guys and it's not fun, when the defences are too strong and you're not hurting anyone it's no fun. You've got to have the right balance. We need to have the right balance in the next generation console to fit these needs."

Sounds like the lack of RAM is for that the whole multitasking app thing can work properly with all the games.

Hmm...
 
At least this gives a look into their reasoning for setting up the system resources the way they have. I'll check out the full article in a bit.

I skimmed through it and unfortunately it seems just a lot of philosophical PR stuff.

So far it seems it's just "we can do a lot with it, some of it could be for games" but spread over 3 pages.
 
Unified memory pool refers to sharing the same memory for use by the GPU and CPU, which both PS4 and Xbox One do.
This is not the same as PS3, and does not make developing games more difficult.
 
Dunno about developers and people who strictly want to game, but I think that having a good sized VM there, capable of running w8 store apps is going to be amazing.

Edit: The article itself doesn't say much... Shame XD

But at least it seems that game specific apps like Battlefield's battlelog (and perhaps smartglass as well?) are handled by the app OS on the xbone, which is nice.
 
Well I think you're confusing two separate RAM-centered things. The unified pool is in contrast to the two different pools on the PS3; one for GPU and one for CPU. Restricting RAM amount (5GB for games and 3GB for OS/apps in case of X1) is basically saying how big the pool is, not giving you different pools.

Yeah, I understand that now. The word "splitting" through me off until I read a bit more and realized they are really just talking about dedicated OS RAM. I mean, the article is really just justifying why they are using so much RAM for non-gaming tasks.
 
But does that make development more complicated/difficult?

Why should it? The actual game has a single unified pool of 5 GB Ram, and the eSRAM, of course which actually is something you probably have to think about a bit. The split of main memory between games and everything else, however, should not make any difference to a game developer. According to the leaked documents, the game retains that amount of memory even if it suspended.

All the other game related stuff sounds like independent, dedicated applications that run isolated from the main game in the same sense that tablet apps do. They might interact through some network layer to exchange secondary information (stats, maps, etc.) but they are basically two separate applications.
 
But does that make development more complicated/difficult?

(I'm not making a statement, I'm actually asking.)
Common misconception. The RAM in Xbox one and PS4 is 8GB unified but ≤3GB is fenced off from developers, it is not like PS3 where there were 2 distinct modules.
 
How much RAM do I need to fit all these RAM stories?


Anyway I am curious what the X1's OS is like. I might not agree with it but MS have a vision. I wonder how it works in the real world.
 
I think Microsoft is grossly overestimating people's desire to run non-entertainment apps on their TV.

I don't think they are. 5 years from now we'll have lots of social media apps that's well use on our TV's.
 
Not that interesting of a read. Really put into laymen terms to the point of being very ambiguous.
This. The article says very very little.

MS has set aside some resources on the Xbone for apps and OS features that we'd consider non-gaming for the most part.

There. Thats the entire article.
 
Cerny: "The #1 request of developers was a unified RAM pool"

Xbox mag: "Why splitting the RAM is good for developers"

I DON'T KNOW WHO TO BELIEVE ANYMORE.
 
I guess if were talking physical amounts of RAM yes, but for the purposes of this thread I was referring to the split between addressable/non-addressable game RAM and the RAM reserved for the OS.

Then where did you hear that the os allocation is less complicated on xbone then ps4 because that makes no sense.
 
According to Cerny, the #1 request of developers was a unified RAM pool. I would venture a guess that you would be correct.

The Xbox One does have a unified RAM pool (as did the 360 and PS4 now).

What a non-unified RAM pool means is that it has separation between VRAM and RAM. For example, on the PS3 which had 512MB RAM, 256MB of that could be accessed by the GPU, and 256MB could be accessed by the CPU. Developers couldn't allocate resources to both depending on their needs as it was determined by the system. With a unified RAM system, going with the PS3 example, that means that developers have 512MB to allocate between CPU/GPU resources as they see fit for their title.

With the X1, developers simply have to think of it as being a 5GB unified RAM. They can allocate those resources between CPU/GPU as they see fit, just as they could on the 360. The system reserves 3GB for the OS and apps for multi-tasking, but that's invisible to the developer (taken care of by the hypervisor OS). It doesn't make development any harder.
 
Actually I huger for the best games possible on my console ... peripherals are just not as appetizing to my palette.

My problem with all this secondary app stuff is that I already have all of this on my tablet, even while sitting in front of a TV. I just don't care about yet another device giving me access to boring, ubiquitous stuff like social networks, communication, and media.
 
Top Bottom