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[Trojita]

That tag lol

 

[Jonm1010]

Yeah, but that's still not the same as saying killing children (or whatever) is policy.

There is clearly a lack of concern and at times a straight up encouragement of indiscrimenate targeting.

http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...-rules-in-gaza-war-led-to-indiscriminate-fire

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZE2XBfwdeg

I remember stood up in front of this commander and told him, 'Is it real?' It's so weird for me. It's so vague. It's so ... I don't know, you can do whatever you want? And he said, 'Yes,' " the sergeant recalls.

One day he was told to pick a target, any target, and fire a tank shell at it in memory of a fellow Israeli soldier who had been killed. He said he and others played a game trying to hit moving cars along a main north-south road in Gaza. He admitted it's fun to fire a tank.

"I can destroy buildings and I'm only 21," he says. But he also noted this attitude wasn't what he had learned during previous military service in the West Bank or on Israel's northern border with Lebanon.

"There is a good reason, of course, to protect soldiers' lives," he says. "So you need to shoot and you can't now try to discuss rules of engagement. But I think the commanders just let loose, let's do whatever we want, it's our time to shine, it's the war we were prepared for. And everything is fine in war. I think it's their excuse, in my mind."

 

[CCS]

To be fair, if we're talking recognition (which we apparently are since someone got that map out) here are the countries that have recognized Israel:

So using recognition as a political weapon is a two way street.

However, not going to defend Israel on the war crimes. They should face the court and have their guilt or lack thereof determined there.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

It would be nice to dream that Palestine could move forward through international law and diplomacy and leave attacks on civilians and groups like Hamas to the past.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Probably very long, as they've never done that before. Indiscriminate is aiming a rocket at a town / city and hoping that it'll hit as many people as possible.

This should lead nowhere, as both sides probably have commited some war crimes, which pretty much seems unavoidable when you are at war every other year.

No, indiscriminate is aiming a rocket and not giving a fuck who or what it hits. Which Israel doesn't.

 

[Jonm1010]

No, indiscriminate is aiming a rocket and not giving a fuck who or what it hits. Which Israel doesn't.

Bullshit.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=169899269&postcount=52

 

[LCGeek]

It would be nice to dream that Palestine could move forward through international law and diplomacy and leave attacks on civilians and groups like Hamas to the past.

Vs a government using a fictious superstituous reasons to exist, to commit genocide and atrocities as bad as the nazis did for the sake of what at this point?

I find it sad between the big bad us and israel who has the most armed and trained military and blacks ops operations on the planets are afraid of terrorist much less armred in weaponry, financies and political/social clout. I'm done being nice about subject in which US politics gives tacit approval to israel committing genocide because they happen to be more neopistic and willing to play to corporate interests which govern all of us.

such a snarky post and yet a google search can show you what isareli tanks and weapons have done in much larger numbers to much weaker people.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Bullshit.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=169899269&postcount=52

I'm saying that Israel doesn't give a fuck.

 

[casablanca]

It would be nice to dream that Palestine could move forward through international law and diplomacy and leave attacks on civilians and groups like Hamas to the past.

Problem is :
1- International law and diplomacy does nothing thanks to the US and europe.
2-Every colonized country used this type of attacks.

 

[Jonm1010]

I'm saying that Israel doesn't give a fuck.

Oh, ok.

My bad lol

 

[Kenshin001]

What happens if Hamas is also found guilty? I can see both parties just ignoring the outcome and rendering the ICC ineffectual, just like Sudan's Bashir making a mockery of it.

 

[Herla]

Like I said,I'm not defending it.I really think Israel should threat Palestinians better

Freud would be proud.

 

[Chichikov]

What happens if Hamas is also found guilty? I can see both parties just ignoring the outcome and rendering the ICC ineffectual, just like Sudan's Bashir making a mockery of it.

Hamas is on the terror list of the US and the EU and many of its leaders will be arrested the moment they set foot on European or American soil.
All whataboutism is stupid, but this is extra silly.

 

[CCS]

To be fair, I understand the mindset of the Western European governments that support Israel. I mean we put them there (in our case quite literally, we had the mandate for Palestine), we don't want to abandon them now given that this whole mess is our fault in the first place.

 

[Antiwhippy]

To be fair, if we're talking recognition (which we apparently are since someone got that map out) here are the countries that have recognized Israel:



So using recognition as a political weapon is a two way street.

However, not going to defend Israel on the war crimes. They should face the court and have their guilt or lack thereof determined there.

What does recognising isreal have to do with wanting them to stop their atrocities against Palestinians?

 

[CCS]

What does recognising isreal have to do with wanting to stop their atrocities against Palestinians?

I was merely commenting on a post on the previous page where someone was talking about which countries had not recognized Palestine.

 

[Walpurgis]

To be fair, if we're talking recognition (which we apparently are since someone got that map out) here are the countries that have recognized Israel:



So using recognition as a political weapon is a two way street.

However, not going to defend Israel on the war crimes. They should face the court and have their guilt or lack thereof determined there.

I never said that Israel was not a country. It should be clear to anyone that both are.

 

[CCS]

I never said that Israel was not a country. It should be clear to anyone that both are.

However, you can see why countries are reluctant to recognize Palestine, when most of Israel's neighbours don't recognize its existence.

 

[Walpurgis]

However, you can see why countries are reluctant to recognize Palestine, when most of Israel's neighbours don't recognize its existence.

No, I can't see that.

 

[EviLore]

If you ever reach the point where murdered innocent children are brought up and you shrug and hand-wave and continue full speed with your expertly conditioned talking points fed to you by agenda-driven third parties, please reevaluate the basis for your positions. And no, you're not getting your tag removed, no matter how many mods you PM.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Vs a government using a fictious superstituous reasons to exist, to commit genocide and atrocities as bad as the nazis did for the sake of what at this point?

I find it sad between the big bad us and israel who has the most armed and trained military and blacks ops operations on the planets are afraid of terrorist much less armred in weaponry, financies and political/social clout. I'm done being nice about subject in which US politics gives tacit approval to israel committing genocide because they happen to be more neopistic and willing to play to corporate interests which govern all of us.

such a snarky post and yet a google search can show you what isareli tanks and weapons have done in much larger numbers to much weaker people.

Well the existence of Israel as a state is due to actions by the US so the US does have some responsibility and prestige on the line.

Genocide is a strong term that goes above claims of war crimes. If we have evidence of things like large scale massacres and mass graves then certainly it's a big deal. Surely nobody would want to hand wave away real cases of genocide that happened in the past or ones that groups claim to want to commit in the future.

Although sadly I feel that war crimes are things that are so common when there is conflict that it's hopeless to imagine that justice will always be seen to be done.

 

[Kenshin001]

Hamas is on the terror list of the US and the EU and many of its leaders will be arrested the moment they set foot on European or American soil.
All whataboutism is stupid, but this is extra silly.

Not all whataboutism is stupid. It is a legitimate gripe many have about the ICC since to date it has only prosecuted Africans.I was legitimately curious what would be the implications if Hamas were found guilty since they are included in the investigation. I'm guessing none. In which case I'm not sure why Israel would feel the need to abide by the ruling. The US and Europe are not going to arrest Netanyahu.

 

[Pusherman]

As much as I'd like to see Palestine use our modern international political system to their benefit I just can't see it happen. Ultimately, Israel's mere existence is a failure on the (western) World's part, the most blatant vestige of European colonialism and the absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars. I mean, just Israel's nature as a colony, Europeans occupying an Arab part of the Middle East based on a fucking religious myth and an European tragedy, is worthy of condemnation. Combine that with Apartheid style interior politics and a Nazi-like policy of Lebensraum and you have one of the most evil regimes of our times, on par with North Korea in my opinion. The most infuriating part of it all is that there is no solution in sight. The whole World just closes its eyes to the fact that most major political powers in both Palestine and Israel are not so secretly hoping to one day rule the whole of Palestine.

So yeah... I don't think this will amount to anything. Honestly, the situation over there seems hopeless and I can't imagine what Hell it most be like to live in Gaza right now. Knowing that the possibility exists that you will be trapped in that open air prison for the rest of your life. A life that probably will be rather short on account of the routine Israeli massacres.

 

[CCS]

As much as I'd like to see Palestine use our modern international political system to their benefit I just can't see it happen. Ultimately, Israel's mere existence is a failure on the (western) World's part, the most blatant vestige of European colonialism and the absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars. I mean, just Israel's nature as a colony, Europeans occupying an Arab part of the Middle East based on a fucking religious myth and an European tragedy, is worthy of condemnation. Combine that with Apartheid style interior politics and a Nazi-like policy of Lebensraum and you have one of the most evil regimes of our times, on par with North Korea in my opinion. The most infuriating part of it all is that there is no solution in sight. The whole World just closes its eyes to the fact that most major political powers in both Palestine and Israel are not so secretly hoping to one day rule the whole of Palestine.

So yeah... I don't think this will amount to anything. Honestly, the situation over there seems hopeless and I can't imagine what Hell it most be like to live in Gaza right now. Knowing that the possibility exists that you will be trapped in that open air prison for the rest of your life. A life that probably will be rather short on account of the routine Israeli massacres.

The hyperbole here is ridiculous. The worst thing to come out of the world wars? Come on.

 

[AntiFacebook]

If you ever reach the point where murdered innocent children are brought up and you shrug and hand-wave and continue full speed with your expertly conditioned talking points fed to you by agenda-driven third parties, please reevaluate the basis for your positions. And no, you're not getting your tag removed, no matter how many mods you PM.

I never said I support child murder.

And my opinions aren't shaped by "agenda driven third parties", but by the rockets that blew a few hundred meters from my house.

Also, I don't see how this tag is relevant,as I was obviously only referring to the last year's war.

And if the mod that changed my tag had participated in the discussion instead of hiding behind his god like powers, I wouldn't have to PM every mod I can find.

 

[GrantDaNasty]

I never said I support child murder.

And my opinions aren't shaped by "agenda driven third parties", but by the rockets that blew a few hundred meters from my house.

Also, I don't see how this tag is relevant,as I was obviously only referring to the last year's war.

And if the mod that changed my tag had participated in the discussion instead of hiding behind his god like powers, I wouldn't have to PM every mod I can find.

What is wrong with you?

Genuine question, I expect a genuine answer. Palestine takes action against Israel the same way Israel pushes itself further and further into territory that is by no rational thought "theirs". Do i condone Palestinian violence against Israel? No. Does Israel get to pretend they're not destroying tens of thousands of lives and being incredibly petty all the while? Likewise met with a response of "No.".

You want the rockets to stop landing near your home? Tell your government to stop annexing territory that ain't theirs.

 

[Shuggananas]

I never said I support child murder.

And my opinions aren't shaped by "agenda driven third parties", but by the rockets that blew a few hundred meters from my house.

Also, I don't see how this tag is relevant,as I was obviously only referring to the last year's war.

And if the mod that changed my tag had participated in the discussion instead of hiding behind his god like powers, I wouldn't have to PM every mod I can find.

Damn someone is upset

 

[EviLore]

I never said I support child murder.

And my opinions aren't shaped by "agenda driven third parties", but by the rockets that blew a few hundred meters from my house.

Also, I don't see how this tag is relevant,as I was obviously only referring to the last year's war.

And if the mod that changed my tag had participated in the discussion instead of hiding behind his god like powers, I wouldn't have to PM every mod I can find.

Woah, rockets. Cool. Half my family was meters away from a suicide bomber detonation at the entrance to Dizengoff Center when a terrorist was caught by security. Bad things happen. Extreme situations exist where extreme responses can feel justified, especially when your loved ones are in danger, and few places is it easier to identify your loved ones being in constant danger than in somewhere surrounded by countries that want you wiped off the map, where solidarity among your own is incredibly important and dehumanization of the enemy makes it much easier to cope with day to day life.

But here on the internet, you're purely going to be arguing against people's ethical standards, and your personal anecdotes aren't going to be very relevant. You're not going to convince people that child murder is justified, or that expanding border settlements and displacing more Palestinians for shits and giggles is just what the world needs, or that Arab Israeli citizens deserve to live in an Apartheid state. No matter how many rockets fly past the vicinity of your home.

 

[Dryk]

That's exactly what i'm talking about.
Hopefully one day people will understand that Israel really had no choice in the matter.

There is always a choice. You can always just, you know, not shoot innocent people trying to get to terrorists? There are consequences for taking that course of action too but there is a choice. In most of the western world shooting people through hostages is considered abhorrent.

 

[Pusherman]

The hyperbole here is ridiculous. The worst thing to come out of the world wars? Come on.

You're right. I should have said one of the worst things to come out of the world wars.

 

[AntiFacebook]

. You're not going to convince people that child murder is justified, or that expanding border settlements and displacing more Palestinians for shits and giggles is just what the world needs, or that Arab Israeli citizens deserve to live in an Apartheid state.

I never made those claims.

 

[EviLore]

I never made those claims.

Enjoy your tag.

 

[zeroOman]

Woah, rockets. Cool. Half my family was meters away from a suicide bomber detonation at the entrance to Dizengoff Center when a terrorist was caught by security. Bad things happen. Extreme situations exist where extreme responses can feel justified, especially when your loved ones are in danger, and few places is it easier to identify your loved ones being in constant danger than in somewhere surrounded by countries that want you wiped off the map, where solidarity among your own is incredibly important and dehumanization of the enemy makes it much easier to cope with day to day life.

But here on the internet, you're purely going to be arguing against people's ethical standards, and your personal anecdotes aren't going to be very relevant. You're not going to convince people that child murder is justified, or that expanding border settlements and displacing more Palestinians for shits and giggles is just what the world needs, or that Arab Israeli citizens deserve to live in an Apartheid state. No matter how many rockets fly past the vicinity of your home.

mybe 30 years ago, I would say yes but now.... it's different

 

[Shuggananas]

I never made those claims.

Great,when the ICC publishes its ruling,everyone will finally know the truth - that Israel performed no war crimes whatsover

I don't know about that imaginary country of yours,but Israel certainly is clean.

That's exactly what i'm talking about.
Hopefully one day people will understand that Israel really had no choice in the matter.

The fault lies completely with the terrorists that chose to hide behind civilian population.

Spoiler

Though Palestinians are still being treated in israel better than arab citizens in arab countries are,mind you

Like I said,I'm not defending it.I really think Israel should threat Palestinians better

Yeah you kinda did actually. Also a really really great lapsus (threat instead of treat)

 

[Patrol]

It's hard to imagine any tangible consequences for Israel's actions in Gaza especially under the wings of the United States. I see a lot of barking, but no bite -- at that is applicable to both Palestine and Israel.

 

[PaulExcellent]

I sleep great. Nice escalation though.

I like how this one was just skimmed over.

I'm actually shocked at some of the opinions here.

 

[Hyperactivity]

I like how this one was just skimmed over.

I'm actually shocked at some of the opinions here.

After the thread during last summer (2014) and some of the crap I saw there, I'm really not surprised anymore

 

[KimiNewt]

As much as I'd like to see Palestine use our modern international political system to their benefit I just can't see it happen. Ultimately, Israel's mere existence is a failure on the (western) World's part, the most blatant vestige of European colonialism and the absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars. I mean, just Israel's nature as a colony, Europeans occupying an Arab part of the Middle East based on a fucking religious myth and an European tragedy, is worthy of condemnation. Combine that with Apartheid style interior politics and a Nazi-like policy of Lebensraum and you have one of the most evil regimes of our times, on par with North Korea in my opinion. The most infuriating part of it all is that there is no solution in sight. The whole World just closes its eyes to the fact that most major political powers in both Palestine and Israel are not so secretly hoping to one day rule the whole of Palestine.

So yeah... I don't think this will amount to anything. Honestly, the situation over there seems hopeless and I can't imagine what Hell it most be like to live in Gaza right now. Knowing that the possibility exists that you will be trapped in that open air prison for the rest of your life. A life that probably will be rather short on account of the routine Israeli massacres.

Aaaand we've come full circle.

 

[AntiFacebook]

Yeah you kinda did actually.

Where?
I don't support the illegal settlements,but they are not war crimes.
I don't support child murder,but i do believe it was not intentional. So again,not war crimes.

 

[Jonm1010]

Where?
I don't support the illegal settlements,but they are not war crimes.
I don't support child murder,but i do believe it was not intentional. So again,not war crimes.

There is a link pretty close to you post that goes into detail of straight indiscriminate firing in Gaza. Whether they intentionally targeted children is a red herring when there is no justification or defense for the type of behavior Israel engaged in. The fact that you can't even admit on a personal level that Israel has done some fucked up shit int he face of overwhelming evidence is pretty indicative of the cognitive dissonance you are engaging in.

Heck, maybe read your new tag lol.

 

[commedieu]

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I am under the impression that Palestine will lose its funding, as far as our latest budget goes if it pursues this and any action that attempts to bring charges to Israel at the ICC.

So... I haven't heard much about that..


But:;

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/246179-lawmakers-warn-palestinian-actions-could-suspend-us-aid

Two lawmakers are warning the Palestinian Authority (PA) that its economic assistance from the United States could be suspended because of its decision to initiate charges against Israel at the International Criminal Court (ICC).

“By formally submitting allegations against Israeli forces to the ICC Chief Prosecutor, President [Mahmoud] Abbas has triggered a provision in U.S. law that suspends all economic assistance to the PA,” Rep. Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), the top Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, said in a statement.

Seems that Israel won't have to do anything...as its literally fucking law that they will be abandoned if they continue. However, they did it, so I'm sure they know whats at risk..

hmm?

Such a pathetic state of things.

 

[Quixzlizx]

After the thread during last summer (2014) and some of the crap I saw there, I'm really not surprised anymore

I'm not surprised either, at the people on GAF who call Israelis Nazis and say stuff like the creation of Israel was "absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars."

I feel like this ties into Opiate's thread about people who would rather indulge in the cathartic expression of apoplectic rage than reasoned discussion.

 

[Kolx]

Where?
I don't support the illegal settlements,but they are not war crimes.
I don't support child murder,but i do believe it was not intentional. So again,not war crimes.

Taking other people's land without any right to do so is not a war crime? Shooting children in front of you without any reason is not a war crime? What world are we living in exactly?

 

[commedieu]

I'm not surprised either, at the people on GAF who call Israelis Nazis and say stuff like the creation of Israel was "absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars."

I feel like this ties into Opiate's thread about people who would rather indulge in the cathartic expression of apoplectic rage than reasoned discussion.

Anyone saying that would surely be banned. I was banned for even joking about Israel.

People condemn Israels massacres, and compare them to others that have committed massacres with the same lust for complete destruction of a type of person, as well as having that attitude supported by those who win public office, and those that even run on the notion of never allowing a Palestinian state. The solution for the israeli people, would be to let the ICC and the UN take care of the illegal activities against Israel, and stop massacring/bulldozing homes. Someone saying "Israelis are literally Nazis!" would be banned.

The fact that Israel/USA has to threaten Palestine over losing funds if they even try to do things legally is telling of the USA/Israel.

 

[Joel Was Right]

US aid to Palestine was dependant on them not going to the ICC.

Because Freedom.

 

[RK9039]

US aid to Palestine was dependant on them not going to the ICC.

Because Freedom.

Oh yeah I remember about that. How crazy is that? damn.

 

[Orbis Tabula]

Great,when the ICC publishes its ruling,everyone will finally know the truth - that Israel performed no war crimes whatsover

Really? I don't follow this stuff very closely. How do you know this?

 

[BobLoblaw]

Great,when the ICC publishes its ruling,everyone will finally know the truth - that Israel performed no war crimes whatsover

On to the ignore list you go.

 

[Sephzilla]

Great,when the ICC publishes its ruling,everyone will finally know the truth - that Israel performed no war crimes whatsover

 

[Jag]

Ultimately, Israel's mere existence is a failure on the (western) World's part, the most blatant vestige of European colonialism and the absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars..

80+ million dead people would probably disagree with you.

I mean, just Israel's nature as a colony, Europeans occupying an Arab part of the Middle East based on a fucking religious myth and an European tragedy, is worthy of condemnation. Combine that with Apartheid style interior politics and a Nazi-like policy of Lebensraum and you have one of the most evil regimes of our times, on par with North Korea in my opinion.

Holy shit lol. Ease your foot off the gas just a little.