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[Quixzlizx]

Anyone saying that would surely be banned. I was banned for even joking about Israel.

People condemn Israels massacres, and compare them to others that have committed massacres with the same lust for complete destruction of a type of person, as well as having that attitude supported by those who win public office, and those that even run on the notion of never allowing a Palestinian state. The solution for the israeli people, would be to let the ICC and the UN take care of the illegal activities against Israel, and stop massacring/bulldozing homes. Someone saying "Israelis are literally Nazis!" would be banned.

The fact that Israel/USA has to threaten Palestine over losing funds if they even try to do things legally is telling of the USA/Israel.

I'm actually pulling from posts in this very thread, not some general fear-mongering. I mean, I guess you can split hairs and say that they didn't literally call them Nazis, but I personally think that is a distinction without a difference in this case.

Edit: And my original post didn't say "literally Nazis," so you are also putting words in my mouth there.

As much as I'd like to see Palestine use our modern international political system to their benefit I just can't see it happen. Ultimately, Israel's mere existence is a failure on the (western) World's part, the most blatant vestige of European colonialism and the absolute worst thing to come out of the Two World Wars. I mean, just Israel's nature as a colony, Europeans occupying an Arab part of the Middle East based on a fucking religious myth and an European tragedy, is worthy of condemnation. Combine that with Apartheid style interior politics and a Nazi-like policy of Lebensraum and you have one of the most evil regimes of our times, on par with North Korea in my opinion. The most infuriating part of it all is that there is no solution in sight. The whole World just closes its eyes to the fact that most major political powers in both Palestine and Israel are not so secretly hoping to one day rule the whole of Palestine.

So yeah... I don't think this will amount to anything. Honestly, the situation over there seems hopeless and I can't imagine what Hell it most be like to live in Gaza right now. Knowing that the possibility exists that you will be trapped in that open air prison for the rest of your life. A life that probably will be rather short on account of the routine Israeli massacres.

Vs a government using a fictious superstituous reasons to exist, to commit genocide and atrocities as bad as the nazis did for the sake of what at this point?

I find it sad between the big bad us and israel who has the most armed and trained military and blacks ops operations on the planets are afraid of terrorist much less armred in weaponry, financies and political/social clout. I'm done being nice about subject in which US politics gives tacit approval to israel committing genocide because they happen to be more neopistic and willing to play to corporate interests which govern all of us.

such a snarky post and yet a google search can show you what isareli tanks and weapons have done in much larger numbers to much weaker people.

 

[Dai101]

Where?
I don't support the illegal settlements,but they are not war crimes.
I don't support child murder,but i do believe it was not intentional. So again,not war crimes.

1- Probably not war crimes but they're ILLEGAL for international law
2- They targeted deliberately civilians which is indeed a FUCKING WAR CRIME

Enjoy your tag ;-)

 

[Dude Abides]

I'm actually pulling from posts in this very thread, not some general fear-mongering. I mean, I guess you can split hairs and say that they didn't literally call them Nazis, but I personally think that is a distinction without a difference in this case.

Edit: And my original post didn't say "literally Nazis," so you are also putting words in my mouth there.

Do you have anything to say about the ICC or alleged war crimes or is your interest limited solely to complaining about other people's rhetoric?

 

[commedieu]

I'm actually pulling from posts in this very thread, not some general fear-mongering. I mean, I guess you can split hairs and say that they didn't literally call them Nazis, but I personally think that is a distinction without a difference in this case.

Edit: And my original post didn't say "literally Nazis," so you are also putting words in my mouth there.

You said people were calling Israeli's nazis. They aren't. As you admit.
And that you were surprised that this is allowed to go on.

If people aren't literally calling Israeli's nazis, you haven't a point besides having a differing opinion on what Israels massacres and killings should be called, as well as their political decisions in the region that lead to massacres and killings as well as displacement. So why would you find it noteworthy that people post things that condemn israel, for their direct actions, are allowed to do so?

 

[Quixzlizx]

Do you have anything to say about the ICC or alleged war crimes or is your interest limited solely to complaining about other people's rhetoric?

Pointing out the flaws in how discourse occurs is probably more important than whatever's being argued about in the first place. Good process will more consistently lead to good results.

But I think that the Palestinians should be able to ask the ICC to investigate war crimes if they are a member of the ICC, if that's what you're asking. I hope the ICC is more objective regarding any investigation than other international bodies like the UNHRC.

 

[commedieu]

Pointing out the flaws in how discourse occurs is probably more important than whatever's being argued about in the first place. Good process will more consistently lead to good results.

But I think that the Palestinians should be able to ask the ICC to investigate war crimes if they are a member of the ICC, if that's what you're asking. I hope the ICC is more objective regarding any investigation than other international bodies like the UNHRC.

Flaws in discourse? Its a thread about Israel's war crime and massacre investigation. You singled out single sentences in thoroughly explained posts to take issues with something incorrect, people calling Israelis nazis. You offered no dissenting opinion on these posts, except for not calling Israelis nazis. Which wasn't even stated to begin with.

 

[LCGeek]

Well the existence of Israel as a state is due to actions by the US so the US does have some responsibility and prestige on the line.

Never debated it. I have no no problem with the government as obama been pretty good. I'm sick of tools on cnn/fox pumping up the zionist movement and misrepresenting the palestinans. Neither side have been great in my book but from watching those networks you would think the Israeli are innocent and have done nothing in the past 25 years to make this conflict worse or deepen.

Genocide is a strong term that goes above claims of war crimes. If we have evidence of things like large scale massacres and mass graves then certainly it's a big deal. Surely nobody would want to hand wave away real cases of genocide that happened in the past or ones that groups claim to want to commit in the future.

Its not a war it's massacre for all intents and purposes. Israel been smart about when and how they cull down palestinian territory and people numbers if the end result is the same I don't care about the method or speed the government gets there. They know what they know they are doing and have been doing it for 40 years now.

Although sadly I feel that war crimes are things that are so common when there is conflict that it's hopeless to imagine that justice will always be seen to be done.

I don't want justice anymore I want to baby governments and cultures to grow the fuck up and stop letting innocents die for some BS religious movement that now has become bs political movement. I don't think it will happen in my life but the politics on this subject are so fubared and dishonest.

Quixzlizx I didn't put anywords in your mouth I was responding to someone I thought was having light tone to a serious subject. This is not joke nor what nazis did to achieve their goals on various levels including their relationships in politics or proganda or inciting people against a false enemy the state props up.

 

[Dude Abides]

Pointing out the flaws in how discourse occurs is probably more important than whatever's being argued about in the first place. Good process will more consistently lead to good results.

I was under the impression that GAF's discourse-policing mechanisms did not include derailing.

But I think that the Palestinians should be able to ask the ICC to investigate war crimes if they are a member of the ICC, if that's what you're asking. I hope the ICC is more objective regarding any investigation than other international bodies like the UNHRC.

Speaking of flawed discourse, I don't know why you'd bring up the entirely unrelated UNHRC other than as a knee-jerk whine about bias against Israel.

 

[Quixzlizx]

Flaws in discourse? Its a thread about Israel's war crime and massacre investigation. You singled out single sentences in thoroughly explained posts to take issues with something incorrect, people calling Israelis nazis. You offered no dissenting opinion on these posts, except for not calling Israelis nazis. Which wasn't even stated to begin with.

There's nothing to argue against. It's just wrong. If you claim that the Israeli government has committed "genocide" on the level of the Nazis, you're a liar and/or deluded. Or maybe the people who take that position don't think the Holocaust happened?

I'd say that claiming that the creation of Israel was the absolute worst thing to happen from the two world wars is outright hatemongering, but I'm sure you disagree on a purely objective level, since clearly the existence of Israel is a bigger stain on the world than the Holocaust, the millions of Russians who were raped/murdered/starved to death, or the similar actions Japan took in China, (or for the anti-American, the Germans and Japanese who were incinerated and/or vaporized by bomber raids).

 

[Quixzlizx]

I was under the impression that GAF's discourse-policing mechanisms did not include derailing.

I was originally quoting someone whose post was entirely whining about how he can't believe certain people were posting the way they were, but I guess you weren't interested in calling people out until my response.

 

[Toxi]

Pointing out the flaws in how discourse occurs is probably more important than whatever's being argued about in the first place. Good process will more consistently lead to good results.

We're talking about fucking war crimes here.

I think that's a tad more important than whether someone compared Israel to Nazis.

 

[Dude Abides]

I was originally quoting someone whose post was entirely whining about how he can't believe certain people were posting the way they were, but I guess you weren't interested in calling people out until my response.

He wasn't quoting multiple people in an attempt to derail.

Anyway, looks like you've succeeded in turning the focus of the thread to other people's word choice rather than the war crimes or the ICC, so congratulations to you. I regret that I assisted your effort.

 

[commedieu]

edit:

not worth the derail. fuck it.

 

[Pusherman]

80+ million dead people would probably disagree with you.



Holy shit lol. Ease your foot off the gas just a little.

I already explained that I was wrong in calling Israel the worst thing to come out of the world wars. What I meant was that it is one of the worst products to live on after the end of the world wars, it was not a statement on the Holocaust or the many other deaths during the world wars. Still, my initial statement was clouded by my own heritage seeing as that the many atrocities by communist regimes and the cold war in general were also products of the world wars. I absolutely did not mean to downplay those atrocities. But I still regard Israel as a terrible product of the world wars and I still regard it as one of the worst countries in the world today. Israel is a colony, it is partly justified by religious myths and it does have in place Apartheidesque policies. And I think the zionist belief that Jews as an ethnic group are somehow entitled to a piece of foreign land despite the fact that it is already populated can most definitely be compared to the Nazi regime's idea of Lebensraum.This doesn't mean that I think Israel is analogous with the Nazis in any other way obviously.

 

[Dai101]

I hope the ICC is more objective regarding any investigation than other international bodies like the UNHRC.

Awww we lamb, you're so transparent.

 

[commedieu]

I already explained that I was wrong in calling Israel the worst thing to come out of the world wars. What I meant was that it is one of the worst products to live on after the end of the world wars, it was not a statement on the Holocaust or the many other deaths during the world wars. Still, my initial statement was clouded by my own heritage seeing as that the many atrocities by communist regimes and the cold war in general were also products of the world wars. I absolutely did not mean to downplay those atrocities. But I still regard Israel as a terrible product of the world wars and I still regard it as one of the worst countries in the world today. Israel is a colony, it is partly justified by religious myths and it does have in place Apartheidesque policies. And I think the zionist belief that Jews as an ethnic group are somehow entitled to a piece of foreign land despite the fact that it is already populated can most definitely be compared to the Nazi regime's idea of Lebensraum.This doesn't mean that I think Israel is analogous with the Nazis in any other way obviously.

I understood what you meant. Hopefully Israel will finally be investigated in the ICC.

and hopefully the Palestinian people aren't deprived aid due to wanting to do things legally.

 

[LCGeek]

There's nothing to argue against. It's just wrong. If you claim that the Israeli government has committed "genocide" on the level of the Nazis, you're a liar and/or deluded. Or maybe the people who take that position don't think the Holocaust happened?

I said geneocide and atrocities but also forget the other point I made about political policies, propaganda or philisophies anyone with a brain can look and go this is pretty damn similar. If you're gonna respond to people nuance might be nice instead of absolutes. Degrees are important cause what you're arguing is I said the worst of the worst and only the worst which gets off the point I ever meant.

I'm not a denier here or anywhere on the web. I'm equally unfriendly to people of that nature too especially that nature.

commedieu I will bow out.

 

[Fenderputty]

I'm pretty most people in here think both sides have done some fucked up shit to each other. The issue is that one side is holding the other side in forced camps. One side has seen more and more of their territory taken unfairly. It's becomes difficult to feel sympathy for Israeli people because of this. If you corner people and they get desperate, what do you expect them to do? Toss flowers in Israels direction?

They need a two state solution and when Israel gives it to them, then they'll have the moral high ground to say we were forced to shoot back.


EDIT: Thread derail aside, I think it's important to point out hypocrisy. In that way Dude was fighting the good fight.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

People will just stick their head in the sand, call both sides at fault, then wonder where the palestinian people disappeared if Israel keeps on grabbing. Because they will eventually be marginalised to the point of being almost extinct.

Living in open concentration camp like camps for decades is not "both sides at war".

 

[Glasswork]

To be fair, if we're talking recognition (which we apparently are since someone got that map out) here are the countries that have recognized Israel:



So using recognition as a political weapon is a two way street.

However, not going to defend Israel on the war crimes. They should face the court and have their guilt or lack thereof determined there.

Not sure where you got this map, but it's wrong, neither Qatar or Oman have recognized Israel as of 2015, nor did many of the North African countries in green ever recognize it.

Here's a more accurate map form wikipedia.

Purple denotes countries that have never recognized Israel, pink denotes that have withdrawn recognition.