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[Instigator]

Can you give us your thoughts on the Game Boy Micro, Panajev? That ought to be short.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Can you give us your thoughts on the Game Boy Micro, Panajev? That ought to be short.

Cool points: back-lit screen, very small size... hopefully it plays GB/GBC games.

Not so cool points: 2'' screen is a bit small.

 

[Nostromo]

There's probably a little "fat" in PC gpus. If you're focussing on getting as many lean ALUs in there, I think it could be doable. The X850 PE is only 160m transistors, IIRC...if you took that logic, cut out any fat, and poured into ALUs, might it not be possible?

I believe in improvements, not in miracles.
R500 ALUs perform more floating ops per clock cycle than X850 ALUs and are more advanced too (SM3.0 and extra stuff..)

Looking at the X850's vertex and pixel shaders, there's a lot going on in there that either isn't necessary or isn't wanted in R500 (e.g. 2 mini-alus in addition to the "normal" ALUs per pipe etc. - if you take it that they're half the transistor budget of a "normal" ALU, then that's 16 ALUs you could "convert" them into right there (or the equivalent of 8 of the R500 variety, I guess))

How do you know a 2 mini-alu takes as much has half ALU space?
Mini alus are used to perform biasing and stuff like that, well, R500 ALUs can do that kind of stuff too, believe me

How many texture units does the R500 have?

16

I'm thinking you may also get some transistor savings going with a pool of units versus seperate pipelines (?)

The distribution of logic is very different.

You can always do better, but if they can do SO MUCH better ATI shouldn't wait a minute to indroduce such a wonderful, compact and flexible architecture on the market, even with cutted features, just to support dx9.
Moreover R500 has an advanced 'feature' MS and ATI have not disclosed yet that eats a lot of transistors (just give a look at dx next/wgf2.0 specs and you'll understand what I'm talking about), there is NO WAY they can fit all that stuff in less than X850 transistors count.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Is it that PPP thing? Or is it something more magical? :lol

 

[Panajev2001a]

Is it that PPP thing? Or is it something more magical? :lol

Your feelings teach you well, but you have to learn how to keep them hidden young Jedi.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So why is there not a Programable Primitive Processor in the RSX, then? Would seem strange that they wouldn't go all out, wouldn't it?

 

[Panajev2001a]

So why is there not a Programable Primitive Processor in the RSX, then? Would seem strange that they wouldn't go all out, wouldn't it?

Well, it is not like they do not have some extra power in the CELL based Broadband Engine and a very fat pipe connecting CPU and GPU...wait a minute they do .

Let's hear what they pakced in RSX: the cat is not completely out of the bag IMHO .

 

[MightyHedgehog]

So, it looks like X360 and PS3 are pretty evenly matched...just in different ways. MS wants a balanced, more predictable performance flow in effects-heavy rendering and Sony chose to use the Cell CPU configuration to handle what it doesn't do on the GPU side of things. Same but different...effectively making a lot of the floating number hyperbole just that...hyperbole...in most cases. Correct?

 

[gofreak]

How do you know a 2 mini-alu takes as much has half ALU space?
Mini alus are used to perform biasing and stuff like that, well, R500 ALUs can do that kind of stuff too, believe me

The mini-alu being the equivalent of half a alu was a pure guess - I figured that might be conservative. Anyone know for sure?

I think when you have it seperated out into different units, though, you may be losing some efficiency in terms of transistors usage?

Moreover R500 has an advanced 'feature' MS and ATI have not disclosed yet that eats a lot of transistors (just give a look at dx next/wgf2.0 specs and you'll understand what I'm talking about)

I doubt ALL of that stuff is going into R500

I think we need more detail on it. Can't someone bag an ATi interview at E3?

 

[Pimpwerx]

Chop chop Pana. We don't have all day here. Seriously, a PPP sounds cool. But then, if you're adding stuff, you gotta take some away, right? Does R500 support HDR? I'm not sure since there wasn't any major mention of it. I don't know if that's part of the WGF spec (and I'm clearly too lazy to look for myself). Also, is there any hope for this Chaperone bs to become true? ATI did a good job with that 2xFSAA logic on the R500. It would be nice to see the RSX featuring that self-shadowing assistant that was in that one patent diagram. It would be a shame if it was gonna have to be brute-forced by Cell. PEACE.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Although this is a PS3 thread, I figured this technobabble would be best put here since the comparisons between the RSX in the PS3 and the Xenos/C1 (R500) are heavily anticipated...

HardOCP's four-page early look at ATI's X360 GPU


The Intelligent/Smart Memory and Modeling Engine (Programmable Polygon Processor?) are of the most interesting elements talked about therein.

 

[Nostromo]

ATI is starting to disclose some more detail
From HardOCP

The Xbox 360 also makes using curved surfaces possible in-game, meaning that it can calculate the polygons from the proper curved surface math in order to draw it on your screen “correctly.” Much in line with this is the ability to do high order surface deformation. And if you are familiar with high order surfaces, you are likely familiar with what gamers and hardware enthusiasts commonly refer to as “LOD” or Level of Detail. Mr. Feldstein shared with us that the Xbox 360 GPU has some “really novel LOD schemes.” So we are thinking that the days of cars in the distance with pentagonal shaped wheels in new Grand Theft Auto titles is a thing of the past.

And I believe there is a lot more than this..
R500 is full or surprises, 150 MTransistors my ass.. :lol

NOTE: when my friend Pana says:

Let's hear what they pakced in RSX: the cat is not completely out of the bag IMHO

It means just one thing: he knows more than you (than me too!) but he can't disclose.
Obviously if asked he would deny everything

 

[AB 101]

I have to believe ATI and nVidia love being able to make a console chip and not being hamstrung by PC architecture.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

I have to believe ATI and nVidia love being able to make a console chip and not being hamstrung by PC architecture.

Definitely. But there are other restrictions though, cost for one.

 

[AB 101]

And if you are familiar with high order surfaces, you are likely familiar with what gamers and hardware enthusiasts commonly refer to as “LOD” or Level of Detail. Mr. Feldstein shared with us that the Xbox 360 GPU has some “really novel LOD schemes.

I call bullshit.

"LOD" means "Lots of ducks"

 

[AB 101]

But there are other restrictions though, cost for one.

Or fat fucking profits.

 

[Phoenix]

Although this is a PS3 thread, I figured this technobabble would be best put here since the comparisons between the RSX in the PS3 and the Xenos/C1 (R500) are heavily anticipated...

HardOCP's four-page early look at ATI's X360 GPU

Unfortunately very little useful technical detail in that article.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

:lol Well, I'm not a tech person, but it was readable to me and it included information that I figured was new.