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[You Are Viewtiful]

It happened on NeoGaf as the killings were still happening. "I feel bad for muslim minorities now" or "right-wingers are having a party now". All to take the attention away from those who committed the act and those lost to us by the attacks. Insensitive political correctness with no sense of sympathy to the actual victims.

Why are you trying to take the attention away from those killed today and instead yapping about the "Liberals worrying about Muslims"!!! Outrage? You have no sense of sympathy to the actual victims, just trying to distract everyone else.

Spoiler

Anyone can play this stupid game

 

[RustyNails]

Nah, they should have just avoided this little piece right here

[

Which is clearly and unmistakenly victim blaming.

That's not what victim blaming means.

Goodness, some of the posts in here.

Read the entire fucking paragraph

France is one of the European countries from which hundreds of Isis recruits, often French-born and educated and sometimes converts, have travelled to Syria. Online radicalisation has been growing – a phenomenon not unlike a sect. A lot of this plugs, of course, into a social and economic context of high youth unemployment, especially in suburbs, and racist discrimination against Arabs and Africans.

 

[Esch]

Which is clearly and unmistakenly victim blaming.

Outlining some of the circumstances behind successful ISIS recruitment is victim blaming?

 

[number11]

Fuck.. I remember hearing about 2 being dead earlier in the day. Had no idea about the scale of this until now

 

[DOA]

The Guardian has their first opinion piece about the attacks up. The subline?

"Muslims will increasingly fear being associated with terror; far-right groups may well fuel more hatred"

Not about the victims, not about the terrorists. Far-right groups may fuel more hatred? Seriously? 150 people have been killed by terrorists but the right-wingers are the boogeyman who will fuel hatred. They are always the boogeyman. I mean, the fucking enemy is out there in the streets killing people, causing hate and terror, and you're afraid of people shifting right being what causes fear? And this is the first article you put up?

Jesus CHRIST Guardian why are you surprised that Europe is shifting right at all when your response to the fucking tragedy is so callous and out of touch with bodies still warm in the streets? I just cannot understand the bizarrely cold liberal european reaction to these things at all, I really can't. It's their failure to adequately address this situation and talk about it and emote about it in a way that the public understand and agree with that's driving people rightward, and this article is a prime example. I don't want to see the rise of far-right parties at all, but fuck me if I don't want the side in charge who can adequately identify where the blame for causing terror lies literal hours after a terror attack...

EDIT: I'm sorry for ranting but as an fiscally liberal left-leaning dude I read the Guardian every day and their take on certain issues makes my blood boil. That frustration spilled out here.

the article addresses the concern that because of those terrorists attacks will actually achieve their purpose: divide between people by generalizing certain populations and associating them with ideas that only extreme few have. the problem is that it was always there. since the dawn of mankind those tactics has been used to gain control of power. the "right wing" extremists are playing right into the terrorists hands. it happens all over the world.
my take is that a Jihadist is the Muslim's right wing equivalent. we also have right wing Jews. being a right wing isn't religion specific at all. in this day and age the title has become a synonym to hate and bigotry. the sad part is that humanity still has it and will have it for a long time.

 

[M52B28]

This thread is going to be run into the ground and locked. Come on, save the arguments for later. Let's focus on other news and positive news, please?

 

[Wellscha]

That's not what victim blaming means.

Goodness, some of the posts in here.

Read the entire fucking paragraph

So are Blacks in America.

You don't see them forming terrorist organizations because Blacks are systematically, economically, and socially oppressed.

Heck, even after the latest police shootings, I never heard of a Black terrorist organization forming out of it.

 

[theignoramus]

We need a separate thread for posters wanting to discuss the wider social and political consequences of the attacks, as this page demonstrates quite emphatically.

 

[airborn]

So were the restaurant and stadium attackers the same people?

Depends of the time of the Rue Bichat incident.

Kick-off for France vs. Germany was at 9 PM. The blasts can be heard during the broadcast at the 16th minute minute mark (9:16 PM). So it had to have happened earlier.

 

[everyday math]

We need a separate thread for posters wanting to discuss the wider social and political consequences of the attacks, as this page demonstrates quite emphatically.

Seriously.

Edit: That video ugh sicking

 

[M52B28]

We need a separate thread for posters wanting to discuss the wider social and political consequences of the attacks, as this page demonstrates quite emphatically.

It is quite honestly disrespectful to people who were involved in the situation and have family and friends who were effected by it on this forum.

 

[GillianSeed79]

My heart goes out and aches for the people of France. You have my condolences Paris-Gaf. Absolutely terrible.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Because western governments and citizenry have shown a stomach for that in the Middle East. But this time it'll be different!

Given how pissed off Americans, even conservatives, got with all the lives and money spent on Iraq do you really think anyone has the appetite for that? We'd be talking trillions to occupy and rebuild other people's countries and then some other group would show up somewhere else and you're playing whack a mole again.

I think the last poll I saw somewhere when it came up to ground troops in Syria or Iraq had a pretty tight split and the people who supported it only support it with a caveat of "just a short time" like that's any kind of answer. Just a short time is not remotely possible, it would have to be years at least.

With Iraq, I don't blame anyone given we should not have gone there in the first place. It was a war built on lies. Our leadership was also like, nah, we got it! Don't change or sacrifice anything! Just keep truckin along. A complete contrast to what the citizens were asked to do in WWII.

And to address both comments, yeah, I've said the political will does not exist to properly maintain an occupation and building process to "clean up" after any potential war. I do not disagree there at all.

I've just been saying that at this point I fell like options are limited. And a full-scale total war is required - but only if accompanied with a long-term occupation and building process. But yes, I also acknowledge that the will to carry that out (if it is indeed a viable solution) does not exist and will not exist unless more frequent and larger attacks happen at minimum...

 

[DrForester]

Reuters photo slideshow is chilling.

http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/paris-under-attack?articleId=USRTS6VT0

This one got me.

What hell has this person seen?

 

[GuessMyUserName]

It is insensitive when during a terrorist attack, you seem to be more concerned with those not affected by the attacks rather than those dying. Show some sympathy.

What do you know about sympathy by saying they're not also affected by the attacks?

 

[Dayner_Kurdi]

may god/allah show mercy upon their souls, my condolence for everyone who left us in this event

 

[AYF 001]

Seriously.

That might be for the best. What happened today is undoubtedly terrible and a lot of us are emotional, but what else can be said about it at this point? A lot of people are starting to ask about the why's and how's that such a tragedy came to pass, and aside from the agenda-pushers, I believe the discussion to be an understandable reaction once the initial shock wears off.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Online radicalisation has been growing – a phenomenon not unlike a sect.

hmmm, would this lead to further internet laws incoming, legalizing tracking everyone and making anyone who types in "bomb" put under extra scrutiny and everything searchable without a warrant and make encryption illegal, unlike before where they tracked everything on the sly. Then they wouldn't have to worry about legalities.

 

[DXLelouch153]

Reuters photo slideshow is chilling.

http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/paris-under-attack?articleId=USRTS6VT0

This one got me.

What hell has this person seen?

how is he even standing and using i assume a cellphone with those wounds(i assume those are wounds)
dudes stronger than me
id be going batshit crazy in this situation

 

[DrForester]

So have any details been released about what went on in the Concert hall? Seemed the security forces went in shortly after word of the hostages emerged. Heard some reports saying grenedes were thrown at the hostages as the forces entered, and others that people were being killed and that's why the forces moved in so quickly.

how is he even standing and using i assume a cellphone with those wounds(i assume those are wounds)
dudes stronger than me
id be going batshit crazy in this situation

Given that he isn't with medics, I made the morbid assumption that it isn't his blood...

 

[Wellscha]

Please move any off topic discussion into this thread please.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

With Iraq, I don't blame anyone given we should not have gone there in the first place. It was a war built on lies. Our leadership was also like, nah, we got it! Don't change or sacrifice anything! Just keep truckin along. A complete contrast to what the citizens were asked to do in WWII.

And to address both comments, yeah, I've said the political will does not exist to properly maintain an occupation and building process to "clean up" after any potential war. I do not disagree there at all.

I've just been saying that at this point I fell like options are limited. And a full-scale total war is required - but only if accompanied with a long-term occupation and building process. But yes, I also acknowledge that the will to carry that out (if it is indeed a viable solution) does not exist and will not exist unless more frequent and larger attacks happen at minimum...

But this idea that an occupation can destroy ideology is so nonsensical. Are you even aware of how many places have been victims of attacks? It stretches from the Americas all the way to Southeast Asia. Not to mention some of the things that have been happening in Africa.

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around what you're saying and it's so insane to me. You got the entire Middlea East, parts of Africa, Southeast Asia, parts of Russia, and then you have people like the Boston bombers, Fort Hood shooter, and numerous others that didn't need to go to some training camp in Syria to carry out their twisted acts. Explain to me how that would EVER work.

 

[UrokeJoe]

how is he even standing and using i assume a cellphone with those wounds(i assume those are wounds)
dudes stronger than me
id be going batshit crazy in this situation

Not his probably.

 

[Calm waterfall]

What a horrible news. 153 people are dead, RIP.

 

[DXLelouch153]

Given that he isn't with medics, I made the morbid assumption that it isn't his blood...

which means he saw someone killed right in front of him
oh dear
his eyes seem pretty souless
poor guy needs a burger and a hug

 

[riotous]

how is he even standing and using i assume a cellphone with those wounds(i assume those are wounds)
dudes stronger than me
id be going batshit crazy in this situation

He may have tried to use his shirt to help someone at some pont; or that's from laying down in blood.

Horifying no matter the cause.

 

[MisterFalcon]

We need a separate thread for posters wanting to discuss the wider social and political consequences of the attacks, as this page demonstrates quite emphatically.

So we can be lectured on the glory of the medieval Caliphates, how Islamic theology makes none of these attacks even remotely Islamic and how this is just like the Westboro church. Should be good based on all the previous threads.

 

[pbsapeer]

Fuck went to bed st 36 confirmed and now it's up to 160??? Fucking scummy people.
I just am flabbergasted. Stay safe ParisGAF xx

 

[Amalthea]

which means he saw someone killed right in front of him
oh dear
his eyes seem pretty souless
poor guy needs a burger and a hug

You think he wanted to eat a burger atm, or for the next few days?

 

[fierrotlepou]

This is so, so sad.

 

[zsynqx]

which means he saw someone killed right in front of him
oh dear
his eyes seem pretty souless
poor guy needs a burger and a hug

This is not something you ever recover from. If he was part of the Bataclan massacre then he is lucky to be alive.

 

[GoldenEye 007]

But this idea that an occupation can destroy ideology is so nonsensical. Are you even aware of how many places have been victims of attacks? It stretches from the Americas all the way to Southeast Asia. Not to mention some of the things that have been happening in Africa.

I'm just trying to wrap my mind around what you're saying and it's so insane to me. You got the entire Middlea East, parts of Africa, Southeast Asia, parts of Russia, and then you have people like the Boston bombers, Fort Hood shooters, and numerous others that didn't need to go to some training camp in Syria to carry out their twisted acts. Explain to me how that would EVER work.

The idea is the war stamps out a lot of that. The occupation, however, will establish economies, infrastructure, self-sustaining governments that can control their areas - rather than letting radicals just run loose. I think this is something that would like unimaginable lives, time, and money to pull off. I thought I've been trying to be as reasonable as possible as I'm stressing hard the building process.

Random crime will always occur and terrorism will be a thing moving forward. But if it can be largely minimized and much of the established support systems can be marginalized/eliminated, it is something worth looking into.

I mean - I'm not an anti-terrorism expert, so yeah I'm just throwing shit out there. I'm at a loss. What the fuck do you want me to say? But the status quo also isn't working either. Something has to be done. This is not sustainable. I mean, what would your suggestion be?

 

[Pacbois]

Finally home. Can't close my eyes despite extrême fatigue.

 

[UrokeJoe]

which means he saw someone killed right in front of him
oh dear
his eyes seem pretty souless
poor guy needs a burger and a hug

??

More than that I think.

Edit- Are you being facetious?

 

[sphagnum]

Remember when we had that one poster who was an open ISIS supporter?

I'd really be interested to see his thoughts right now.

 

[woen]

From what I know about Sadam and the Taliban, getting rid of them was morally justified. I think the Wests intentions there were good, so if thats what you mean by "war", then that was really the only way to get rid of those two evils. Territory occupation? Well, foreign militaries had to hang around in the hopes of a peaceful transition. Or are you talking Israel now? I dont know about "grub local politics" either. It kinda sounds like you are blaming the failure of a peaceful Middle East entirely on the West, whilst ignoring the local culture of violence, poor treatment of others (women, gays etc) and all the tribal hatreds.

Looks like you're doing just the opposite. You neoconservatives never learn and continue speechify about how moral were the wars, how good were the intentions, how necessary was the intervention, how bad, violent and retrograde are societies. But covering you eyes on the process and resultants of the Western interventions and continuing to recite clichés about anything that's not "Morally good western civilized countries" won't change the facts. You're stuck in 2003, or maybe in the XIX-XX centuries with the colonial occupations.

"Let's intervene and liberate these people ! Democracy is coming ! Evil will be killed !"

"God we created evil monsters that are supported by the people we bombed while we decided how they should organise their societies ! But we're good I swear"

"Let's intervene and liberate these people ! Democracy is coming ! Evil will be killed !"

"God we created other evil monsters that are supported by the people we bombed while we decided how they should organise their societies. But that was morally justified, remember Collin ?"

"Let's intervene and liberate these people ! Democracy is coming ! Evil will be killed !"

"God we created other evil monsters that are supported by the people we bombed while we decided how they should organise their societies. But we're still good I promise."

Hopefully you are part of a species that is mostly stuck in a small part of the US of America and declining.

 

[Velcoro]

how is he even standing and using i assume a cellphone with those wounds(i assume those are wounds)
dudes stronger than me
id be going batshit crazy in this situation

Yeah or someone else's blood "/

Probably still in a state of shock I can't even imagine.

 

[Surface of Me]

This is not something you ever recover from. If he was part of the Bataclan massacre then he is lucky to be alive.

Dont speak like this.

 

[gutter_trash]

how is he even standing and using i assume a cellphone with those wounds(i assume those are wounds)
dudes stronger than me
id be going batshit crazy in this situation

perhaps he was driven to call his loved ones to assure them that he is okay

 

[DXLelouch153]

Remember when we had that one poster who was an open ISIS supporter?

I'd really be interested to see his thoughts right now.

wait what?
are you fucking kidding me
Evilore what is this amateur hour?
how did a fucking ISIS supporter slip through the cracks?
i hope Bish swiftly banned him into oblivion

 

[Phoenix944]

Well... Time to call my family/friend to see if everyone's alright...

 

[Leona Lewis]

Fuck went to bed st 36 confirmed and now it's up to 160??? Fucking scummy people.
I just am flabbergasted. Stay safe ParisGAF xx

That number will sadly only rise as more victims succumb to their severe injuries.

Witness accounts of the Bataclan shootings are just horrifying. The effects of this day are too frightening to imagine.

 

[Tagyhag]

Remember when we had that one poster who was an open ISIS supporter?

I'd really be interested to see his thoughts right now.

"We have no concrete proof that it was ISIS"

The mind will go through extreme mental gymnastics to not allow you to stop believing in something.

 

[zsynqx]

Dont speak like this.

Maybe poor choice of words. The psychological effect this would have on someone is astronomical. He needs all the support in the world right now from people he is close to.

 

[HK-47]

wait what?
are you fucking kidding me
Evilore what is this amateur hour?
how did a fucking ISIS supporter slip through the cracks?
i hope Bish swiftly banned him into oblivion

Geez calm down. Telepathy doesnt exist.

 

[RustyNails]

Remember when we had that one poster who was an open ISIS supporter?

I'd really be interested to see his thoughts right now.

"What about x number of civilians killed by US/Israel/France in this y country in the past year? u hypocrites"

That's the staple response of ISIS and Al Qaida online fanboys.

 

[MMarston]

wait what?
are you fucking kidding me
Evilore what is this amateur hour?
how did a fucking ISIS supporter slip through the cracks?
i hope Bish swiftly banned him into oblivion

Well, he wasn't explicitly raising the ISIS flag everywhere (at least the last time I read of that guy)

He was however incredibly obvious that he was backing their horse

 

[lednerg]

Finally home. Can't close my eyes despite extrême fatigue.

Glad you're alright. Just try to take it easy.

 

[RustyNails]

wait what?
are you fucking kidding me
Evilore what is this amateur hour?
how did a fucking ISIS supporter slip through the cracks?
i hope Bish swiftly banned him into oblivion

He was more of an anti-Assad poster than pro-ISIS one, as he saw ISIS as the only capable force pushing against Assad and his soldiers. But that slowly turned him into cheering for ISIS, despite saying he disagreed with their methods and beheadings and stuff.

 

[UrokeJoe]

wait what?
are you fucking kidding me
Evilore what is this amateur hour?
how did a fucking ISIS supporter slip through the cracks?
i hope Bish swiftly banned him into oblivion

Interesting...