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[woen]

If the passports reports are true, that would be a good hypothesis.

Passports could also be fake but the goal would be the same.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Really?
The petition is reactionary, yes, but if it turns out that terrorists are amongst the Syrian refugees, can you really blame the population at large for turning everyone away? It's OTT but I'd hardly call people 'morons', or more of a worry than ISIS..

One of the terrorists was born in France, we should kick out all muslims born in EU to be safe?

 

[Cow Mengde]

Really?
The petition is reactionary, yes, but if it turns out that terrorists are amongst the Syrian refugees, can you really blame the population at large for turning everyone away? It's OTT but I'd hardly call people 'morons', or more of a worry than ISIS..

Perhaps this attack was done deliberately to make countries refuse refugees and have these people come back under their control.

 

[moggio]

Really?
The petition is reactionary, yes, but if it turns out that terrorists are amongst the Syrian refugees, can you really blame the population at large for turning everyone away? It's OTT but I'd hardly call people 'morons', or more of a worry than ISIS..

Alas, I have known some BNP members.

Give me a Muslim fundamentalist any day of the week.

 

[maxcriden]

The amazon.fr homepage is fairly tasteful.

Same one in America right now.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Really?
The petition is reactionary, yes, but if it turns out that terrorists are amongst the Syrian refugees, can you really blame the population at large for turning everyone away? It's OTT but I'd hardly call people 'morons', or more of a worry than ISIS..

Yes. You have the VAST majority trying to escape chaos, and live a normal life, and to just sit there and say fuck all of you because of a few horrendous people is not the answer.

 

[travisbickle]

I'm not sure if you are aware a small group of people killed and maimed hundreds last night as easy as walking out the front door and there's literally hundreds of thousands of people arriving daily from the same place they originated from.

Yeah, people are concerned,maybe if more concern was heeded sooner something could have been done to stop it.

Is there proof where the terrorists were from?

 

[orochi91]

But as long as, for instance, President Obama does not even publicly recognize that there is a link between religious ideology and terrorism, how can the public start to demand that the supporters of such religious ideology should be sanctioned for that.

He actually does recognize a link, but not in the sense that you're probably thinking of:

President Barack Obama said Wednesday that he refuses to describe the Islamic State and al Qaeda as groups fueled by "radical Islam" because the term grants them a religious legitimacy they don't deserve.

"They are not religious leaders; they are terrorists," Obama said during remarks at a White House event on countering violent extremism. "We are not at war with Islam. We are at war with people who have perverted Islam."

Obama said the Islamic State in Syria and Iraq, also known as ISIS or ISIL, is "desperate" to portray itself as a group of holy warriors defending Islam. It counts on that legitimacy, he said, to propagate the idea that Western countries are at war with Islam, which is how it recruits and radicalizes young people.

"We must never accept the premise that they put forward, because it is a lie," he said.

The president said the Islamic State and al Qaeda do draw selectively from Islamic texts to try to justify that they are in a religious war. But, he added, that doesn't mean they speak for the more than 1 billion Muslims who reject the group's hateful ideology and violence.

"They no more represent Islam than any madman who kills in the name of Christianity or Judaism or Buddhism or Hinduism," he said. "No religion is responsible for terrorism. People are responsible for violence and terrorism."

From this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/18/obama-islamic-state-terrorists_n_6708610.html

He doesn't see religion as inherently prone to terrorism, but only that select followers tend to pervert it in order to justify their agendas.

Are you specifically looking for him and other leaders to single-out/target Islam or just the Wahhabi variety?

 

[Carl2291]

A government petition in the UK to stop all immigration until ISIS is defeated has hit over 100k signatures in less than 15 hours...

Hardly surprising. Hasn't even started to snowball yet.

People are genuinely terrified. Can't blame 'em.

 

[Peltz]

I just woke up to this news. It's absolutely heart wrenching. :*(

 

[Valhelm]

Perhaps this attack was done deliberately to make countries refuse refugees and have these people come back under their control.

I doubt ISIS cares about refugees "coming back under their control"

 

[stupei]

Profitable for the people who get to keep the money the States spend.

And unfortunately a shocking number of Americans think it is profitable for the country too, probably because that's kind of the simplified version you're taught in most American history classes. I remember very clearly when we studied the Great Depression and were told that war is what ended economic decline. "War always kickstarts a struggling economy." They really forgot to put it in the context of the time, at least in my class.

I still know people who think going to war "helps" they economy, but maybe they believe in trickle down economics too.

Everybody going into war as a soldier has the willingness to die for their country or cause. Religion is obviously a factor but the very concept of war in all forms depends on people willing to die for a larger idea that is quite often not religious at all.

Yeah, this was more the point. Getting rid of religion will not stop fanaticism. It's more useful to focus on removing the causes of unrest that make such fervor not only possible, but almost easy to inspire.

 

[Pankratous]

I just woke up to this news. It's absolutely heart wrenching. :*(

How long have you been asleep?

People on my Facebook actually moaning about others changing their profile picture to show support... What...

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Google translation is very hard to read, sorry ^^. Anyway, I still think you have to wipe out ISIS first. I can't see another way

ISIS is more than dudes carrying AK's, is an insidious ideology that is making their way into the population. Every bomb, every aerial attack, every invasion, is making that idea to expand between people more easily.

 

[TheAbsolution]

I just woke up. Any updates since midnight last night?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

These people must be terrified of driving to work each morning if the infinitesimal chance of them getting blown up by a terrorist worries them.

Problem is, this 'infitesimal chance' doesn't seem so small in the wake of events such as Paris. So people tend to overreact, hence the petition.

 

[kitch9]

Is there proof where the terrorists were from?

Starting to be yes, one of them appears to be a Syrian refugee registered in Greece in October.

I'll eat my hat if that wasn't where most of them came from.

 

[wheeplash]

Yesterday was a sad day for humanity, this needs to be stopped.

 

[UnluckyKate]

If the passports reports are true, that would be a good hypothesis.

Passports could also be fake but the goal would be the same.

yeah they " found passports " on bodies of blown up kamikaze, like the found passport of the pilots in 9/11 I always have a hard time figuring out how but okay

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Yes. You have the VAST majority trying to escape chaos, and live a normal life, and to just sit there and say fuck all of you because of a few horrendous people is not the answer.

Of course it's not the answer, but terror attacks tend to invoke irrational responses.
My point being, I can understand why the petition exists, not that I necessarily agree with it.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

A portion of Syria didn't want him, but he still had majority support.

A large portion of America doesn't want Democrats, and in the UK, Conservatives, doesn't mean you can just overthrow the government, or request other nations help support and/or arm a rebellion.

Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrian and purposefully targets hospitals and keeps people he dislikes in camps, the Syrian people will never accept him as head of state ever again. If you manage to destroy Al-Nursa and ISIS while protecting Assad's government, there will shortly be another terror group that forms out of the sheer anger towards Assad.

 

[Heshinsi]

It's not the sole component, but if you think that the expectation of paradise through martyrdom played no role at all when those terrorists blew themselves up yesterday after having already killed many tens of people, then you are just blind to the role of religion here. I would guess that it's actually very unattractive and hard to blow yourself up unless you have certain beliefs to support you in that strategy.

There are many things that are messed up in Islam, but two things that are quite straight forward and clear are the ban against harming unarmed civilians, and suicide. How these terrorists commit both of these things, and then expect their God to be chill about it, boggles the mind.

But I do agree with that religion does play a role in this. Where it plays that role is how Muslim children are indoctrinated at a very young age to see the world as us versus them (kaffir). Everyone that isn't Muslim (even then they are taught that only 1 sect out of 70ish are the real Muslims) is a hell bound infidel. The vast majority of these kids aren't raised to go out and kill people, but it lays the groundwork to dehumanise the "other". So when ISIS and their like come knocking and fill their heads with the fucked up version of Islam they follow, it makes it easier for these individuals to do these horrible things.

 

[Abinash117]

Typical, you keep avoiding my point. Yeah, you got the answers to eliminate ISIS, but do you got a way to eliminate the deaths of innocents at their hands in the western world? If not, fuck off?

Oh, right, you want the western world to eliminate them to end all suffering across the world. Awesome.

Spoiler

Naive

I don't represent the western world, and I'm sure you don't represent Islam. But if the argument you're presenting is that the west needs to eliminate ISIS to keep their homes safe, than again, sincerely, fuck off.

Islam is a religion of more than a billion people. Democracies self regulate, but the religion of peace doesn't? You present so many strawmen regarding who are 'true' ISIS members but fail to realize that ISIS members have a unifying belief in the elimination of apostates(which we all are); but you continue to present nonsensical explanations for their existence with things like some of them "are rich", "are well educated", "have different motivations", and then end your argument by saying the only solution to this is by violently murdering them. Really? AND then, you have the audacity to go ahead and call people naive. Present some empirical data, if you're going to make broad statements of a particular fundamentalist group fitting a mold you've created. The burden of proof is yours. And I don't think you know the the half of it. Groups like ISIS are retribution against western interests. They are creations of the west. Short term violence will not solve this problem. I will again emphasize that it is naive to believe it will.

In summation, you call someone naive for suggesting the answer is not violence, and then contend that the violent removal of extremists is the answer. Brilliant. Yep, you got the answers and fuck me for suggesting otherwise!

It is rich how you barely grasp the English language and still accuse me of not paying attention. It seems like you know how to solve ISIS problem yet no one else does! Honestly, you should reread all your shitty posts before your next attempt at a reply, for coherence's sake. But I don't have faith in your comprehension so for that, I must say bye.

Yes fuck you for suggesting otherwise haha. Why do you keep saying what I want? I keep saying it is NOT a matter of want militaries are already there doing something that you don't want stop saying I want something I DON'T even want the conflict, but many in those military thinks it is need it and other people. I don't know why you can't get that through your head. And it is not just the western world that thinks ISIS members need to be destroyed so do the Iraqis, the Kurds, Shiites, Syrians, Christians in those countries, Iran, Egyptians, etc are fighting them, killing them, and 'murdering them'.

Are you being stupid? Those are the facts that many ISIS members foreigners if you didn't know you are extremely ignorant.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/24/isis-brides-secret-world-jihad-western-women-syria
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ring-Western-women-to-Syria-to-join-Isil.html

All you are really doing is question and not providing anything else, besides saying I am wrong and that's it. You don't have any answers yourself besides telling me what exactly what I want despite me saying nothing about what I want until in this post. I don't even have the answers to everything I'm just thinking what is happening what is going to happen. You didn't even refute well about my reason why people need to get rid of ISIS inside of Syria and inside Iraq and actively warring against them-to make the country safer. You really only said I am being wrong. In Iraq ISIL is trying to take territory and massacres people, you tell me how you are exactly going to get them to stop in Iraq and a good reason for them to stop and them tell the Iraqi, Kurds, etc to stop .

You are exactly what I said before; you are the part of people that is questioning people and not much else.

 

[hypotc]

Rockheim National Museum of Popular Music in Trondheim, Norway today:

 

[zeemumu]

A government petition in the UK to stop all immigration until ISIS is defeated has hit over 100k signatures in less than 15 hours...

I can kinda understand why. I don't agree with that logic but I can understand it.

 

[moggio]

Problem is, this 'infitesimal chance' doesn't seem so small in the wake of events such as Paris. So people tend to overreact, hence the petition.

People overreacting are part of the problem.

Still, I expect the UKIP/BNP types are masturbating furiously about all of this.

 

[kitch9]

yeah they " found passports " on bodies of blown up kamikaze, like the found passport of the pilots in 9/11 I always have a hard time figuring out how but okay

Yep, the passport stuff is weird.

 

[ManUnkindH]

My cousin and my uncle were at the stadium. One of the bombs went off about 50 m behind them, outside the stadium. They thought it was fireworks at first. So glad they are ok and they made it home safe.
They told me Paris looked like a ghost town during early morning hours.
It is truly unbelievable what's going on with these extremists.

 

[NinjaFridge]

The amazon.fr homepage is fairly tasteful.

Amazon UK is the same.

 

[Hedge]

Last night I recall reading something about planned attacks on Rome, London and Washington. Was that ever confirmed to be directly from Daesh, or was it just a twitter rumour?

 

[wachie]

Perhaps this attack was done deliberately to make countries refuse refugees and have these people come back under their control.

Perhaps? Looks like most likely.

Just imagine the state of refugees who fled from ISIS and these fuckers (ISIS) have also fucked their (refugees) potential new countries.

 

[nib95]

Hardly surprising. Hasn't even started to snowball yet.

People are genuinely terrified. Can't blame 'em.

Still stupid though. Turn away thousands of persecuted people who face death, torture, starvation, poverty, war, rape etc, because of an insignificant chance something bad may happen to me as a result of an even more insignificant number of twats? No thanks. I'd rather not let cowardice or selfishness Lord over me, and do the more selfless and humane thing, and save a far greater number of lives. We have intelligence services and security to manage the rest, and so far in the UK they've done a fairly decent job.

 

[SenkiDala]

http://www.lemonde.fr/attaques-a-pa...-explosait-dans-mon-bras_4809665_4809495.html

An interesting video here of people escaping the Bataclan (concert hall). Warning it might be shocking for some of you.

 

[MetatronM]

Just curious, but how is going to war profitable? The Iraq war cost United States a lot of money.

The war cost the people of the United States a lot of money, yes, but the defense contractors and military industrial complex in general made out like absolute bandits. Billions and billions of dollars in profits.

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

Last night I recall reading something about planned attacks on Rome, London and Washington. Was that ever confirmed to be directly from Daesh, or was it just a twitter rumour?

It was BS.

 

[Klossen]

People overreacting are part of the problem.

Still, I expect the UKIP/BNP types are masturbating furiously about all of this.

People overreacting are part of what problem?

 

[C0unter]

Yes but the overwhelming majority does it in the name of religion, islam in particular.

This is something that is quite recent though, and hardly a result of religion but the socio economic and unstable nature of the region. Pretty clear to see from the huge increase in suicide attacks since 2002.

But not without the motivation of a death cult ideology. This is, to my knowledge, universal and apparent in examples like Japanese kamikaze pilots. And the idea of being particularly rewarded when sacrificing yourself for the cause is the most extreme manifestation of such a death cult ideology.

Yes but the concept of self sacrifice for a "greater good" is hardly unique to religion or Islam. People who believe in Ideologies from communism to nationalism have commited these attacks.

 

[RPGCrazied]

Just woke up not long ago, world leaders talking about Syria. So it was ISIS?

 

[Zaph]

BBC News - Greece claiming one of the Syrian suspects passed through a Greek island earlier this year.

I really hope this passport thing ends up being an intentional deception, otherwise the refugee crisis is about to get a lot worse.

 

[Rynam]

The amazon.fr homepage is fairly tasteful.

Same one in America right now.

.de and .co.jp same. I think they use that for every amazon site right now.

 

[params7]

Assad has killed hundreds of thousands of Syrian and purposefully targets hospitals and keeps people he dislikes in camps, the Syrian people will never accept him as head of state ever again. If you manage to destroy Al-Nursa and ISIS while protecting Assad's government, there will shortly be another terror group that forms out of the sheer anger towards Assad.

Do you know how Nusra and ISIS formed?

 

[neorej]

If the passports reports are true, that would be a good hypothesis.

Passports could also be fake but the goal would be the same.

Maybe they found the passports, and this is just wild speculation, because they didn't want to get detained on failing to carry an ID. It would kind of muck up their mission.

Ockham's razor and all....

 

[Led_Zeppelin]

Helping Assad is a very short term solution, though. Syrians don't want him anymore and he's unable to control the country. That's how that whole mess started. He answered to protests with extreme violence and it escalated from there. I think the "proposed" Russian plan is actually a good starting point, but it pretty much involves replacing Assad in an election.

That is not understanding the Syrian war at all. ISIS isn't the only power in the region, you also have the Syrian Kurds, the Sunni opposition (the famous "moderate rebels") and Al Nusra (Al Qaeda Syrian branch composed of Sunni rebels that want to form a Caliphate just like ISIS).

Assad is a, wait for it, Shiia Muslim, the base of the rebellion is mostly religious and has little to do with how bad Assad actually was, in fact is based mostly in the same reasons why Iraq became a civil war region. The Shiia / Sunni split that is only get worse when you add the Kurds into the mix.

The reality is that Syria will never recover of this until the Sunni extremist of all fronts are dealt with (because their objectives are mostly the same, they differ into who or how a caliphate should be instituted) but this would only invigorate the Shiia governments in the region (Iraq, Iran and Syria) which can cause even more Sunni extremist to join a Sunni extremist organization and the song start all over again. And this doesn't include a big player in this mess like Saudi Arabia.

 

[outunderthestars]

ISIS is more than dudes carrying AK's, is an insidious ideology that is making their way into the population. Every bomb, every aerial attack, every invasion, is making that idea to expand between people more easily.

Yes, but they are still dudes with AK's killing and terrorizing large numbers of people. It's easy to say that we should take a passive cultural approach when we are insulated from the carnage.

Not saying I support a new war, but I can understand the thought behind it.

 

[Kinitari]

Still stupid though. Turn away thousands of persecuted people who face death, torture, starvation, poverty, war, rape etc, because of an insignificant chance something bad may happen to me as a result of an even more insignificant number of twats? No thanks. I'd rather not let cowardice or selfishness Lord over me, and do the more selfless and humane thing, and save a far greater number of lives. We have intelligence services and security do manage the rest, and so far in the UK they've done a fairly decent job.

I agree with you, but I feel bad calling people stupid for being afraid. We have really good lives in the west, a lot of us aren't used to... This sort of thing. I imagine that people in Paris right now are terrified, and almost every ounce of their human nature is going to tell them to keep away the immigrants, to be wary of Muslims, to avoid large events, etc. For those who can fight that, I have nothing for respect, for those who can't, I just feel bad for.

 

[Quazar]

yeah they " found passports " on bodies of blown up kamikaze, like the found passport of the pilots in 9/11 I always have a hard time figuring out how but okay

It's possible that they think passport will be destroyed in suicide attacks? Also, if they get stopped they have ID ready? Even still, I agree, weird.

 

[mnz]

yeah they " found passports " on bodies of blown up kamikaze, like the found passport of the pilots in 9/11 I always have a hard time figuring out how but okay

Just plain speculation, but these suicide bombers must have killed themselves outside of crowds, so it should be possible to identify what belonged to them, if it survived the blast.

.

I didn't write anything about that, though. I answered to a post that promoted talks with and support of Assad as a solution.
Here's info on that Russian paper I mentioned: http://www.spiegel.de/international...-his-secret-strategy-for-syria-a-1062726.html

 

[FortuneFaded]

.de and .co.jp same. I think they use that for every amazon site right now.

The solidarity message wouldn't count for very much if it didn't include every country's version of Amazon.

 

[Somnid]

And unfortunately a shocking number of Americans think it is profitable for the country too, probably because that's kind of the simplified version you're taught in most American history classes. I remember very clearly when we studied the Great Depression and were told that war is what ended economic decline. "War always kickstarts a struggling economy." They really forgot to put it in the context of the time, at least in my class.

I still know people who think going to war "helps" they economy, but maybe they believe in trickle down economics too.

Especially when there's no arms race behind it. We're spending thousands of dollars per bomb to blow up what are essentially farmers with guns and not doing a great job at it. Military science will get a lot of data to improve weapons and tactics for such situations but it's not going to mean much for the rest of us.

You can't fight ideological wars with weapons. These groups have been at it for centuries. You can only fight it with information and improving the quality of life. The easiest way to take the fight out of someone is give them something to lose and these people have nothing.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

People overreacting are part of the problem.

Still, I expect the UKIP/BNP types are masturbating furiously about all of this.

I worry that this sentiment isn't just with the UKIP and their ilk anymore, I think it's shifting to the general population. I'm not in the UK at the moment but if that petition is anything to go buy, terrorism is winning.