What are you hoping to achieve by telling people that they don't need to tinker to game in Linux? You make it sound like it's plug and play, which we both know won't be the case for a majority of new users. If you wish for more people to migrate from windows, you are doing yourself a disservice by giving false impressions.
PC gamers claim Windows 11's Gaming Copilot is capturing gameplay for AI training by default – but what it's actually doing is spoiling performance
- Thread starter LectureMaster
- Start date
- Rumor Platform
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Apparently going to Wine Manager -> Click on "download Win-GE-Latest", is the same asHeroic launcher doesn't even have a default runner installed. You have to manually choose and download one.
Looks who is clueless about what is talking about.
You literally have to click one button. I am pretty sure your average PC gamer can do that.
Because you literally have to go to Wine Manager and click the "Download Wine-Ge-latest" button.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
So where the "out of the box" has gone??
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And when that doesn't work?
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Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Can I remove the whole UWP part of Windows including Windows Store?
Can I remove Microsoft Edge?
Can I stop Windows 11 from occupying 8-10 GB RAM and run on 512 MB RAM?
Can I debloat Windows 11 till its less than 15 GB? I am being generous here, Linux installs can be made way more smaller.
You can't.
Where is the "tinkering" in clicking "download Win GE latest" button.So where the "out of the box" has gone??
Just install from Steam normally. Most PC gamers just use Steam. Most of the time Heroic Launcher should work unless the devs specifically configured to make it not work on Linux.
pudel
Member
This is possible imho....but it needs "tinkering".
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
No its not. Atleast not anymore. It was long ago. They have removed all ways to do so.This is possible imho....but it needs "tinkering".
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Yes.
Yes.
Yes. Mine uses 2GB RAM idle. 512 I already said you can't, afaik.
Less than 15GB I am not sure. But google says me: "Tiny11 installation size: The initial installation is around 8 GB, with some reports showing a slightly larger size depending on the version and what gets installed during setup".
On Windows this step doesn't exist, so, additional tinkering.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
nkarafo
Member
Lol, if your Windows setup takes up 8-10GB you don't know what you are doing.
I have seen less memory taken on casual user PCs who install everything in their path and fill their startup with junk. You are either a bad user or you are bullshiting us. Pick one.
My Windows 10 setup was using 1.5 GB RAM by itself, with less than 100 system processes. It now takes 2.5 GB because i upgraded from 16 to 64 GB RAM, so it caches more.
Windows 11 doesn't take that much more compared to Windows 10.
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Broad Spectrum
Member
Well, you guys have convinced me. 15 FPS advantage for Windows at 1440p on NVIDIA is unacceptable. It's literally unplayable. You might as well just throw your PC in the trash at that level of abysmal performance.
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Thing is I used to spend hours upon hours just to get wayland drivers working properly because vulkan refused to run on anything other than my iGPU, with the solution involving having to disable secure boot. Then some games would work; others needed, again, hours upon hours of tinkering with - and learning about - wine, its prefixes, the different rollouts of Proton and how all that played along with my hardware and drivers. I would get most of my games and applications working, yet not all still. Then after big updates I would basically have to patch the ship all over again. Oh, and went through quite a few distros ofc.
Don't get me wrong, I mostly had a good time throughout all this since I enjoy tinkering and learning, but I imagine someone coming from windows having been told everything works out of the box won't.
If you want to migrate to Linux you have to invest your time and learn Linux, I see no way around it.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Tiny11 hands-on: How much lighter is Windows 11 without the extra bloat?
Have you ever wondered how much Microsoft apps and services bog down Windows 11? Tiny11 shows us what it's like when it's all stripped out.
www.xda-developers.com
So its 29 GB. And it seems like Microsoft Store and hence the entire UWP framework stays.
A single button is "tinkering" now.On Windows this step doesn't exist, so, additional tinkering.
Linux gaming and the experience in has become simpler over the years.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
You can't use Windows 10 for long. And Linux still is a much better experience.
Bernkastel
Ask me about my fanboy energy!
It was from the time I was a Microsoft fanboy. Its for people like you.Let's totally ignore your tag for a minute
You don't care if you use a spyware that uses all your personal data to train its AI. You don't care when Windows 11 consumes 8-10 GB RAM on idle. Got it.
Microsoft by making not respecting my privacy is forcing me and others to use Linux.
Even anticheat works on Linux unless its specifically configured to not work on Linux. Some devs configuring their game to not work on Linux, obviously means its the devs fault.
Soodanim
Member
I set up a dedicated Linux drive a week or so ago and have been getting to grips with CachyOS/Arch, including setting up a few games. I'm loving Arch, very snappy and although I've hit a few bugs it's very very usable.
Here's my gaming experience so far:
First game:
Install Deus Ex through Heroic. Download finishes, install fails. Repeat x3.
Try in Lutris. Community Edition bundled in an optional install, which is a fantastic feature I didn't know about. Except the set up is broken and points to an exe that doesn't live where it says. Being new to Wine I didn't know the fix.
Steam installed and ran, of course, but running upgraded renderers failed. Tried the modding process, but couldn't quite get the built in mix that was in the Lutris version.
Tried Lutris again, figured out the .exe location issue, and works. Except that it only works in one renderer, and even OpenGL which should be the most compatible and performant option doesn't actually launch for me on Linux and I am unable to find an answer for why.
I've stuck with the one config that actually works despite following several guides for other things. Not sure what I'm missing, seeing as Cachy comes with an optional install for gaming dependencies.
Seocnd game: Steamworld Dig 2
Try the native Linux build through Lutris, but it doesn't run. Don't recall why, it just doesn't work.
Try the Windows build through Amazon, and it works. Finished the entire game. Except that for the whole time certain elements like upgrade podiums, despite me finding the exact files in the folders, just don't appear in game. No cause or fix found, including testing 5 different Proton builds just in case.
As much as I like Linux, no, it is by no means as pick up and play as people want to make it out to be. Maybe it's bad luck, maybe it's the recent switch to Wayland that has somehow messed with things. Maybe it's a noob issue that I'm not veteran enough to have mastered yet. I'm sure there are hundreds of things I need to know, many of them essentials.
I will be continuing to use Linux as my daily driver, but I won't be recommending it to anyone any time soon.
And I will under no circumstances tell anyone to believe the nonsense about Linux being a much better experience, because that is extremely subjective both in context and opinion.
Linux remains a niche product for a niche audience.
pudel
Member
Thats at least something. I did the same 5 years ago and only booted to windows for gaming stuff.
But yr gaming experience sounds unlucky to me...yep. I have played maybe 10 different games this year on linux (steam and heroic) and all worked basically flawless.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
Imagine being excited for the new MS hybrid console that will bullshit features like this baked into the system.
This is why I use Mac/Linux as my daily driver and only use Windows for gaming and work.
This is why I use Mac/Linux as my daily driver and only use Windows for gaming and work.
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nani17
are in a big trouble
Can I remove the whole UWP part of Windows including Windows Store? YES
Can I remove Microsoft Edge? YES
Can I stop Windows 11 from occupying 8-10 GB RAM and run on 512 MB RAM? No
Can I debloat Windows 11 till its less than 15 GB? I am being generous here, Linux installs can be made way more smaller. No sure but who doesn't have 500 plus GB these days and who has one ssd or HDD?
As much as linux is good you can't play the most popular online game and most emulation doesn't work on it and this is only about games. AutoCAD and more don't work on it. I do have a mint laptop and its not bad
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Math is hard?? ~8GB for Tiny11. You don't need to install any update and additional stuff on it as that is the ENTIRE POINT OF TINY11. -_-' I use it on my Steam Deck as it uses less RAM.
Puting an additional single computing character, command line, 1 click, etc is an aditional "tinkering" necessary. That simple.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
This is a very understated problem. Even though Wayland has been a thing since 2008, many of the compositors are still buggy and missing some features X11 has.
And the problems don't just stop at the technical level, but also at the organizational/cultural level. GNOME is one of the biggest players in the Wayland space and the people behind GNOME are unhinged from declaring "GNOME is Antifa" to claiming the Framework laptops have "Hitler particles" because Framework promoted Omarchy/Hyprland.
And then, there's XLibre where it has become Lord Voldemort to some popular distros like Red Hat/Fedora and Debian.
pudel
Member
Tbf, I am still using X11...I mean "it just works". I dont get it why everybody wants X11 literally "canceled" and "erased". And yeah, there is unfortunately lots of unhealthy drama behind the scenes as well. As we doesnt have enough already. And its always the same people who claim everybody is Hitler, fascist, bigot...whatever....its sooo fckn tiresome.
Durin
Member
It still isn't plug and play for everything, varies based on the game, and I would advised people towards gaming distros because they automate more things to prevent some basic problems generic distros don't.
Wayland for example is still in a transition stage imo, where HDR and multi-monitor support with various DPI scaling isn't fully working yet, and some games still rely on xwayland to translate an x11 application to wayland which is why some older games will require tweaks or have issues. I've had some hiccups with electron apps (spotify, discord, etc) as well with wayland, nvidia driver support is behind both intel & amd for supporting wayland, but I do think most issues in the next year or so will be wiped away (HDR at this point is coming down to edge cases).
Tbf, I am still using X11...I mean "it just works". I dont get it why everybody wants X11 literally "canceled" and "erased". And yeah, there is unfortunately lots of unhealthy drama behind the scenes as well. As we doesnt have enough already. And its always the same people who claim everybody is Hitler, fascist, bigot...whatever....its sooo fckn tiresome.
The biggest arguments are that Wayland does support some newer features x11 doesn't, but Wayland also hasn't replaced all of x11 features to a complete bug-free state. I do think companies like Red Hat want to push towards Wayland because they have more control over how Wayland develops than they ever did with x11, and they have some people working there that are the blue-hair yell bigot at everything crowd.
nkarafo
Member
Yes i can.
Not for me, thanks.
You keep saying that despite at least 2 people telling you that's not the case. If you see that much usage by Windows alone, that's a user error. Also the system being idle or not doesn't have anything to do with RAM usage.
I see you are an expert.
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The Mad Draklor
Member
I've been running XLibre on Linux Mint and it surprisingly works well. Going by its Github, it is being worked on actively and the source code has been updated to version 25.0.0.13 today.Tbf, I am still using X11...I mean "it just works". I dont get it why everybody wants X11 literally "canceled" and "erased". And yeah, there is unfortunately lots of unhealthy drama behind the scenes as well. As we doesnt have enough already. And its always the same people who claim everybody is Hitler, fascist, bigot...whatever....its sooo fckn tiresome.
My "controversial" opinion about Linux is that had the Linux community not gone the DEI, woke, and Code of Conduct route, the userbase would be more than twice the size today. You would think the community would not adopt the same corporate ethos slop as Microsoft, but instead they arguably went even harder.
Soren01
Member
It's much simpler to run games and applications on Windows. Almost everything is intuitive in general. You don't need to keep typing a password or watching YouTube tutorials to follow step by step instructions. Someone might prefer playing on Linux for different reasons, but the fact is that everything is more streamlined and better supported on Microsoft's system. It's clear enough when you consider that on Linux you need to translate or adapt something that was originally developed for another platform.
In the end, reality sets in. Most people who try to switch to a Linux distro end up regretting it and go back to Windows
In the end, reality sets in. Most people who try to switch to a Linux distro end up regretting it and go back to Windows
Durin
Member
The double-edged sword with Linux being open-source is that it's fragmented into these different groups, so activists can invade spaces easier if they contribute anything, and it's always catered to any misfit that doesn't belong which can include that crowd.
Other side of that edge is even if you like a piece of software invaded by these people, it's not like you're paying or contributing money to them like Microsoft, and they can't stop you from using it either. Not to mention you have choices of distro, and given that Omarchy Linux has grown significantly while openly saying they're not interested in wokeness...I prefer it over having to deal with Apple, Google or Microsoft.
Unknown?
Member
That's because you aren't being spied on.
pudel
Member
I wouldnt regret it to make a new experience with a new OS. You always learn a thing or two. And as a daily driver (without gaming) its just fantastic and thousand times more private and secure than windows. Just keep the linux os and get used to it over time. Nobody is forcing you to switch. You can play yr games on windows or try it out on linux. This not some stupid console war where you have to decide for some specific system....you can use both whenever you want.
Xion_Stellar
People should stop referencing data that makes me feel uncomfortable because games get ported to platforms I don't like
Which is the main crux of the OS for me because this thread made go back and look at my laptop to uninstall anything leftover from my initial purchase of the Laptop earlier this year and with the exception of Lenovo Vantage (I keep it around to update OEM Drivers for the Laptop) I have mostly gotten rid of everything else including all of the Xbox Stuff but the system wouldn't let me get rid of Edge or Bing.
All that's left is figuring out how to turn off all of the background telemetry stuff that Microsoft forces on people.
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RafterXL
Member
You can literally remove 90% of Windows bloat if you want. I removed the AI and Co pilot and all that other stuff the day they updated it in. There are even tools that basically automate it. And AMD performance is not better on Linux, at best it's equal to worse.
And, no, AMD bad isn't the final resort of Microsoft fanboys, which is laughable anyway because I can't stand Microsoft, it's just AMD is bad because they are bad. Nvidia shits all over them both in performance and features, and that's just a fact.
15 fps can be, and often is, the difference between playable and not on modern games and hardware. And let's be real, the difference in the most intensive games is far bigger than 15 fps, especially when you start using modern rendering techniques like RT. You also have worse image quality and a far worse feature set.
Mine is using 4gb right now, so not only is he wrong, but who gives a flip? What kind of crap PC do you have to be running to care about 4gb or even 8gb being used? It's a meaningless, autistic, thing to be worried about considering Linux uses less memory and still performs worse in games, so it doesn't even matter.
nkarafo
Member
Not only that, RAM usage in modern Windows doesn't always indicate what the OS needs to use. Because the more free RAM you have, the more Windows will try to take advantage of, in order to have a larger cache for better performance.
Case in point, when i built my current PC, i didn't initially install a fresh Windows setup, i just used the SSD from my previous PC as is. And yes, Windows do work fine 99% of the time when you do this. It will install the drivers for the new hardware and work normally.
So in my previous PC that had 16GB RAM, Windows would take up 1.5GB at startup (by my curation and usage). By only transferring the same setup on the new PC that has 64GB RAM, it now uses 2.5 GB RAM at startup, with the same exact amount of processes as before.
So basically it uses 1 GB more RAM, not because it needs to but because, as some people said to me, "unused RAM is wasted RAM". Windows will simply use a small percentage of your available free RAM as a cache, for better performance. So the more you have, the more it's going to use. That "stolen" amount of RAM is still available for programs if they absolutely need it.
On the other hand, seeing 8GB/10GB of RAM being used at startup, on a 16/32GB machine, that to me indicates bad usage from the user side and a lot of junk in the background processes tab.
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Broad Spectrum
Member
At 1440p the benchmark was run at a 16 game average. It clocked out at 108 for Windows and 93 for Linux. I'm assuming they didn't run these benchmarks using the lowest rendering options, because who benchmarks like that? Remember what you said:
A 16 game average of 93 FPS for Linux on NVIDIA versus an average of 108 FPS on Windows with NVIDIA. The difference in performance comes from a bug in the Linux NVIDIA drivers that will not be there forever. Personally, a 15 FPS difference is not enough for me to hand over my personal information to Microsoft. If you're a gamer that plays anti-cheat enabled games and that's your whole gaming life, I understand that. But pretending like there's this vast chasm of performance between NVIDIA in Linux and Windows is disingenuous.
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