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[winjer]

I think most people underestimate just how much modern studios, don't care one bit about optimization and quality.
Most studios don't even aim for good enough. Most are willing to release games that are completely broken messes, with tons of bugs and huge performance issues.

 

[IAmRei]

You might need to think like it's Nintendo switch series, would many of AAA devs going there?
weak hardware sure, but overkill sales of hardware will dictate they should port their AAA into weaker hardware just for few more money which is not certain yet.

 

[Trilobit]

I think It's more about the user. There is a psychological affect when you have a fixed spec box. If a game doesn't run well you just lower the settings or play something else.

Much less obsession over tinkering and upgrading and more time playing games. It can be freeing.

True, PC gaming has become a lot better in the last few decades, but there is still that element of tinkering. Which of course many enjoy, but I prefer just focusing on the gaming side of things. Not weird Windows updates or mods or graphics settings. I'm not nearly disciplined enough to not start wasting time on that stuff if I had a PC instead of a PS5. I get enough anxiety from deciding which of the three graphics modes I'll choose.

 

[Danjin44]

Because back then you had games that actually targeted PCs, like Crysis for instance. Devs would use the PC's extra power to make more advanced games. That's why they saw consoles as holding games back.

I could be wrong here but didn't original Crysis came exclusively on PC which even most PCs couldn't run it unless you had build a powerful PC?

 

[Astray]

Devs are already shooting for Switch 2 and Series S, both have lower specs than this.

The reason Valve is doing it this way is to unify their verification program as much as humanly possible. Also this goes well with the Steam HW survey as many have mentioned.

 

[DavidGzz]

Because every pc can be a steammachine. Its not that tragic as if xbox or playstation comes underpowered and stays like that for the next 6-7 years.

You think that the Steam Machine will have a shorter life cycle? Steam Deck has almost been out for 4 years and no SD 2 in sight. If Steam Machine is the baseline for a while, it's still holding games back the same way people thought Series S would hold back third party games on the PS5.

Or maybe that was just par for the course MS hate and was actually a good thing since we want 60 fps games for the whole gen, not just for the beginning. Cross gen is a good thing too for people who want 60 fps on the higher end models.

 

[LordOcidax]

 

[JohnnyFootball]

You think that the Steam Machine will have a shorter life cycle? Steam Deck has almost been out for 4 years and no SD 2 in sight. If Steam Machine is the baseline for a while, it's still holding games back the same way people thought Series S would hold back third party games on the PS5.

Or maybe that was just par for the course MS hate and was actually a good thing since we want 60 fps games for the whole gen, not just for the beginning. Cross gen is a good thing too for people who want 60 fps on the higher end models.

I thought Valve was silly to not release a new Steamdeck....but after checking out the new Z2 Extreme and not seeing a whole lotta improvement vs the Steamdeck...they are making the right call.

 

[DenchDeckard]

It could, help. Would be nice.

 

[nkarafo]

I could be wrong here but didn't original Crysis came exclusively on PC which even most PCs couldn't run it unless you had build a powerful PC?

You are not wrong but Crysis is just the most extreme example.

There were plenty of PC "exclusives" before that, or games that used PC hardware as the base and then consoles got ports. From DOOM/Quake up to Half-Life 2, etc.

 

[pudel]

You think that the Steam Machine will have a shorter life cycle?

I think the life cycle of this thing is irrelevant. You can always get a better "steammachine" when you want.

 

[ByWatterson]

I think the weaker specs mostly indicate that graphics are now bound much more by development budget than technology.

 

[Gamezone]

Can't wait for the Steam OS vs Windows 11 videos.

 

[Danjin44]

You are not wrong but Crysis is just the most extreme example.

There were plenty of PC "exclusives" before that, or games that used PC hardware as the base and then consoles got ports. From DOOM/Quake up to Half-Life 2, etc.

By being PC exclusive wouldn't that mean they didn't got "hold back" since they made with PC in mind first then later on ported on consoles?

Also find the whole PC player's argument of consoles holding back PC frankly idiotic.

Most of the time what holding backs devs is time and budget….not every devs have the same luxury as Star Citizen and R* with infinite time and budget and take their sweet ass time to release their games.

Most devs have to work with limited budget and time and they have to release their games.

 

[crackajack]

People would have needed to avoid any latest xx90 or xx70 class Nvidia cards or refuse RTX entirely, keeping their GTX cards, to make the point that the average person does not want current pricier models and expect also modern games to run on old shit. Not everyone is immediately moving to 5090s but the cutoff area is currently I think around RTX2060. The steam machine might not be high end, but it isn't below current recomended specs either. So it won't change hardly anything, short term. If it is a huge success, optimising specifically for its fixed components to some extend might happen. If it's numbers are very high and a successor doesn't come relatively fast, it might move the level of what an average PC is, and thus what games are made for, but not very likely imho.

 

[deriks]

I agree

BUT having the workaround with their Linux distro, since is optimized from the get go. Maybe Windows users will not see those improvements

I actually root for that mostly because Microsoft fucks more and more Windows - obligation to own a Microsoft account to use a PC? Fuck you

 

[Griffon]

I can sense this gabecube is gonna be very, very cheap. The good side is it's gonna be considered a fixed minimum spec for most devs from now on.

 

[DavidGzz]

I think the life cycle of this thing is irrelevant. You can always get a better "steammachine" when you want.

And you can get a PS5 Pro instead of a Series S. Point stands.

 

[Lupin3]

Plenty of 8GB GPUs on the market. Just this year, AMD and Nvidia released more of them.
Yet, studios do little to nothing to optimize their own games.

Sure. But millions of SM devices on the market would mean millions more of 8 GB devices. And that equals even more money on the table.

 

[pudel]

And you can get a PS5 Pro instead of a Series S. Point stands.

...and than you are stuck with a PS5pro. This steambox is just a pc like every other pc. You are not stuck with it at any given time. What do I care what the lifecycle of any given pc with any given spec is? If you want an upgrade...you just upgrade.

 

[LokusAbriss]

For what do we need high specs? The drivel that came out over the last years is not worth our time.

They should give us a remade Orange Box.

 

[rodrigolfp]

will they?

No. Just like they don't care about optimizing for Steam Deck or any other handheld PC.

 

[DavidGzz]

...and than you are stuck with a PS5pro. This steambox is just a pc like every other pc. You are not stuck with it at any given time. What do I care what the lifecycle of any given pc with any given spec is? If you want an upgrade...you just upgrade.

Ah, you're talking PC vs. limited consoles, I agree. I thought you were talking about how people complaining about the S were in the right. But all consoles are, are limited PCs and no one was forcing anyone to buy the S.

 

[MidGenRefresh]

Optimization in 2025:

1. Slap FSR on it
2. Drag the resolution slider down until the Series S hits a barely stable 30 FPS
3. Ship it

 

[Karim]

It's pretty obvious PC games nowadays are more bloated than ever.

But what if the STEAM machine actually becomes a huge success? Then developers will absolutely have to optimize their their PC ports instead of letting the hardware brute force their job for them. They won't afford their games to run like shit on the successful STEAM machine, will they?

And i don't think this will regress visuals or anything. It will only mean that games will have better performance at lower specs without needing a PC that's 2X more powerful than a current console to run games at console settings. You will still be able to enable path tracing on your fancy 5090 or run games at 4K/120fps on it.

 

[Felessan]

There will not be any major games that would be exclusively run on PS6 other than maybe one Sony first party game. And Xbox PC would have no exclusives at all and be overpriced.

Valve is offering something that is "good enough", I trust them. You can throw around expensive hardware anyway you want, i don't expect anyone to take advantage of them for a few years after launch.

Games optimized to their target platform and secondary platforms got what they got. Consoles are target for most big games, so extensive optimization for PC is a dream.

I don't care about Valve, i just want better optimized PC ports.

It's going to get worse
PS4 was a generation when consoles and PCs were most close. In PS5 generation they diverge and ports gor worse quality. In PS6 they will diverge even more with more problems in ports.

 

[The_Mike]

If that was the case then consoles would be the best nominator to polish pc games.

By the way, which pc games are poorly optimized recently?

Is this another Gaffer stuck in the early 2000s?

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

In PS6 they will diverge even more with more problems in ports.

You will barely see any PS6 games taking advantage of the hardware for 4 years after launch. i wish i am wrong but that is the world we are in now. Games take too long to make so don't expect a flood of PS6 titles.

 

[nkarafo]

By the way, which pc games are poorly optimized recently?

Pretty much every UE5 PC port?

Silent Hill 2 being the worst offender of the games i played.

 

[seb85]

This machine will live and die based on it's price point and believe me if it's more than a 400 500$ it's dead on arrival

 

[The_Mike]

Pretty much every UE5 PC port?

Silent Hill 2 being the worst offender of the games i played.

So we are talking about an engine problem.

Do they run better on consoles? Serious question.

I've seen Markiplier playing the new silent hill and I don't remember him being screwed over in this game, at least from a technical standpoint

 

[nkarafo]

Do they run better on consoles? Serious question.

Yes, A lot better.

 

[existensmaximum]

But what if the STEAM machine actually becomes a huge success?

They won't.

 

[pudel]

Ah, you're talking PC vs. limited consoles, I agree. I thought you were talking about how people complaining about the S were in the right. But all consoles are, are limited PCs and no one was forcing anyone to buy the S.

Yep...and still lots of people bought a series s and of course demanded that all their games are running properly on it....which was difficult to achieve sometimes. Thats why I am saying these specs are not good....just get yrself a proper pc, put SteamOS on it, plug it to yr TV...et voila you have a "Steammachine deluxe".

 

[poppabk]

The Steam Machine isn't a console and isn't going to sell like one. At best it will give devs a low end target to optimize for, but they aren't going to pull out all the stops. They don't even do that for consoles anyway.

 

[PeteBull]

You might need to think like it's Nintendo switch series, would many of AAA devs going there?
weak hardware sure, but overkill sales of hardware will dictate they should port their AAA into weaker hardware just for few more money which is not certain yet.

switch was selling like crazy, it only slowed down after 150m+ units xD

 

[PlayStaytion]

It's pretty obvious PC games nowadays are more bloated than ever.

But what if the STEAM machine actually becomes a huge success? Then developers will absolutely have to optimize their their PC ports instead of letting the hardware brute force their job for them. They won't afford their games to run like shit on the successful STEAM machine, will they?

And i don't think this will regress visuals or anything. It will only mean that games will have better performance at lower specs without needing a PC that's 2X more powerful than a current console to run games at console settings. You will still be able to enable path tracing on your fancy 5090 or run games at 4K/120fps on it.

The new series s, whatever. I would love to see the equivalent to series x from valve like upper high-end class gaming pc, that would be awesome.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Yeah, but its really not the time anymore for 8gig VRAM...they should have gone with 16gig. But who cares, everyone can build their own pc and make it a "steambox". Its not like you are being stuck with their little box.

They can build it to a certain point but it's gonna be real hard to replicate the actual experience.

Wake with controller, easy CEC, and stuff like suspend/resume are big draws IMO.

 

[ScHlAuChi]

It's a bit naive to think that studios will just start optimizing their games.
The only thing they understand is money. And even that, not always.
Unless people vote with their wallets, studios won't change their stance on releasing games in an unfinished state.

You are right that no one will optimize their game for such a tiny install base.
But you are wrong in saying its the studios fault.
Game devs dont want to release unoptimized unfinished games, its publishers forcing them do so, as they call the shots.
So you are blaming the wrong side here.

 

[MisterXDTV]

The better optimization on Steam machine will actually be:

- Removing Windows

 

[R3TRO]

lol no

 

[pudel]

Wake with controller, easy CEC, and stuff like suspend/resume are big draws IMO.

But arent these features just related to the OS? This should be all possible with every other pc as well if you use SteamOS on it?

 

[Durin]

Doubt it will effect much, given the echoed point the Steam Machine is mirroring common hardware many people own in the Steam Hardware Survey.

It's really just going to be devs optimizing games, because their previous attempts at releasing broken product sold like crap. They have to correct if they want to do better, and that includes not releasing buggy product for console folks too. AAA has sucked this gen delivering consistent technical elements.

 

[Erebus]

Is this thing weaker than the base PS5?

 

[The_Mike]

Yes, A lot better.

This seems to prove otherwise.

 

[The_Mike]

Is this thing weaker than the base PS5?

a google search shows that the GPU is equivalent to a GeForce 4060, and watching threads around reddit etc people say that the 4060 can outperform PS5 and ps5pro, the latter with help from frame generation etc. I could also imagine it can run better technically because you can tinker it to your liking if you want to.

Time will tell.

 

[Felessan]

You will barely see any PS6 games taking advantage of the hardware for 4 years after launch. i wish i am wrong but that is the world we are in now. Games take too long to make so don't expect a flood of PS6 titles.

This time it'll be much easier to make heavily gimped lastgen versions and utilize next gen power properly.
Its not a architectural difference like SSD was, a big part at slow adoption as engines should be adapted and game designed around it - and given that games are made 3-5 years, widespread proper implementation take years.
RT/ML is straight performance gain, it'll be like scaling from 5080 to 5050 - lots of features lost but nothing broke at core.

 

[Fbh]

Doubt it. The most used GPUs on steam are already in the same range or even weaker than this thing and it hasn't made devs optimize their games better.

They'll mostly do what everyone does now: "Just render at 720p or lower and slap upscaling on it"

 

[nkarafo]

This seems to prove otherwise.

It proves what? That the game runs like shit on consoles? Sure.

It doesn't debunk the fact that the PC port might be way worse. Where's the video that shows the PC version? Try to run this game on a 4060 based PC, with a CPU that's not a top of the line AMD 9800X3D powerhouse and tell me this proves otherwise as you say.

 

[The Cockatrice]

I think most people underestimate just how much modern studios, don't care one bit about optimization and quality.
Most studios don't even aim for good enough. Most are willing to release games that are completely broken messes, with tons of bugs and huge performance issues.

TO make matters worse even a lot of indie developers are using UE5 and can barely run good on high-end pc's.