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PC junkies, help me with my upgrade

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goodcow

Member
I currently have a P4 1.7 with 512MB of SDRAM, on an Intel 845A motherboard.

I'm considering getting:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-156&depa=0
and:
(newegg.com, search for D865PERL - linking to search results doesn't work)

Firstly, comment on my thoughts, as I really know nothing about hardware now.

Secondly, with that second link, what's the difference between all of those? The first one is OEM, yet costs more than the retail boxed one? That doesn't seem right... and why is the third one there which is supposed to be the same, nearly $30 more?
 
G

goodcow

Member
Mingesium said:
The third one is $30 because it has more built in stuff.

It has ethernet, RAID, and Firewire built into the board.
Click to expand...

The guy on the phone at Intel made it seem like they all had that... he lied to me... damn you Brandon... :(
 
T

Tekky

Member
Third one's got RAID. THat's why it's more.

As for the first two, seems to be no difference in what you get.
I suppose perhaps Newegg just got a deal on the "boxed" units.
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
Id go with the one with more integrated features, do you need the integrated LAN, Sound and IEEE firewire ports and such? If no then the 86 dollar one should work fine, my suggestion would be to get the 112 dollar board, a good mobo is worth more than that its a nice price.
 
G

goodcow

Member
How does this sound for $727?

Western Digital Raptor 74GB 10,000RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model WD740GD, OEM Drive Only

Samsung Original 184-Pin 1GB DDR PC-3200 - OEM

Intel "D865PERLL" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL

Intel Pentium 4/ 3.0C GHz 800MHz FSB, 512KB L2 Cache, Hyper Threading Technology - Retail
Click to expand...

I'd like a new videocard, given that I have a piece of shit GeForce 4 MX in it, but then I'd need a new power supply, and this is already getting expensive...

Should I just wait for 64-bit?
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
well I hope you have another back up drive with more storage for one, but everything i've seen on the raptors have been positive .

Whats the cas latency on that ram? id get it if it were 2.5 or lower but with the Pentium you probably want quick ram if its too expensive get some fast 2-2-2-6 or so ram now like a 512 stick save up and get another one later.

cant go wrong with that processor, however if your willing to spend a little more money than that on a sub 300 chip i would look at getting an A64 3000 - 3200 they generally outperform the Pentiums unless its some hyperthreaded app. Make sure its socket 939 though I wouldnt bother with the socket 754 upgrade path wont really be there by the time you want a new rig probably.

If you get an A64 you dont really have to wait for 64bit its a new core with all the 32bit ISA instructions and a full 64bit ISA instruction set :D cant go wrong with an A64.
 
B

BigGreenMat

Member
Are you sure that you need a new motherboard? Are you sure you can't just upgrade your BIOS and use the new chip? That and I would go for a 2.8c if it is like 30 or 40 cheaper because it will easily be as fast as the 3.0c overclocked.
 
G

goodcow

Member
Yes, I need a new motherboard. My current one doesn't even support DDR RAM, so that aspect of the upgrade is long overdue.

I just don't know if it's worth biting this $700 upgrade bullet... when is Intel coming out with 64-bit stuff and will it be good?
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
P4 3.0 C is an excellent processor.


I *HIGHLY* recommend the ABIT IC7 MAX III mobo. Pricey, but SO worth it. Not only is it loaded with tons of ports (6 SATA with 2 controllers, 5 PCI, 1 AGP Pro, 8 USB 2.0, Some firewire, 2 IDE channels, etc) but it is the best mobo at overclocking.

With it, I can easily OC at 3.0 C to 3.5 GHz. If you're lucky enough to get a 30 cap processor, you can go over 4.0 GHz. My setup outbenches the 3.4 EE now.

Here's my setup:


The P4 3.0 C
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-127-158&depa=0
2x512 MB OCZ PC4000 RAM

About $700. Perfect for your situation.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
"I just don't know if it's worth biting this $700 upgrade bullet... when is Intel coming out with 64-bit stuff and will it be good?"

Not at $700.

I just saw the benches for intel's processor this fall. They barely beat my rig at their stock speeds. But you have to buy an ubber expensive PCI-E board, with a PCI-E video card, and DDR2 RAM, etc.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
"Whats the cas latency on that ram? id get it if it were 2.5 or lower but with the Pentium you probably want quick ram if its too expensive get some fast 2-2-2-6 or so ram now like a 512 stick save up and get another one later."

Don't waste money on RAM latency. The difference between 2-2-2-5 (best) and 3-4-4-8 (worst) is 2% system performance. Fuk that shit. Bandwidth and OCing is where's it at.



"an A64 3000 - 3200 they generally outperform the Pentiums unless its some hyperthreaded app. "

Wrong. Unless you're talking about Socket 939 and it's sweet memory controllers.

Socket 754s perform on par with intel P4 C processors in games. Intel rapes AMD in applications.
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
teh_pwn said:
"Whats the cas latency on that ram? id get it if it were 2.5 or lower but with the Pentium you probably want quick ram if its too expensive get some fast 2-2-2-6 or so ram now like a 512 stick save up and get another one later."

Don't waste money on RAM latency. The difference between 2-2-2-5 (best) and 3-4-4-8 (worst) is 2% system performance. Fuk that shit. Bandwidth and OCing is where's it at.



"an A64 3000 - 3200 they generally outperform the Pentiums unless its some hyperthreaded app. "

Wrong. Unless you're talking about Socket 939 and it's sweet memory controllers.

Socket 754s perform on par with intel P4 C processors in games. Intel rapes AMD in applications.
Click to expand...


EH?

http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTc1
http://www.techreport.com/reviews/2004q1/athlon64-3000/index.x?pg=2

what applications you talking about? in that review the a64 3000xp keeps pace with the 3.2 ghz p4, and in most of the games out paces it, then theres the business apps in which the a64's dominate as well. The synthetic marks are where the intels really shine. And if the xp 3000 can keep up with the 3.2 ghz think of what it could do to the 3 ghz not to mention the 2.8 or 2.6 both of which you cannot go wrong buying for the price/performance ratio.

and goodcow at this point all i've seen about intels emt 64 implementation is ..it sucks. But thats just because the 64bit windows XP was written to be compatible for AMD64 instructions not intels EMT64, so for once amd has the advantage of not having to be compatible with intels implementation.
 
S

Shogmaster

Member
golem said:
i would just get a p4 2.8 for your 845 and save the rest of the money for later
Click to expand...

HELL no. A mobo's only around $100, and for that, you can let that P4 stretch it's legs with dual channel RAM! 2.8C is such a waste on a 845 board....
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
"what applications you talking about? in that review the a64 3000xp keeps pace with the 3.2 ghz p4, and in most of the games out paces it, then theres the business apps in which the a64's dominate as well. The synthetic marks are where the intels really shine. And if the xp 3000 can keep up with the 3.2 ghz think of what it could do to the 3 ghz not to mention the 2.8 or 2.6 both of which you cannot go wrong buying for the price/performance ratio."

There's no such thing as a 64 xp. The XP line, newest being the barton core series, is out of date. They compare to the intel B processors (533 FSB).

As for the applications:

Intel's old processors own AMD's newest stuff in video editing:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-20.html

Back and forth with audio apps:
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-22.html

Back and forth with other apps.
http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040601/socket_939-24.html


Hmm....amd has improved. But Those benches include the S939 while it doesn't include intels new stuff:

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040719/intel_925xe-12.html


One thing those benches don't reflect is that intel owns with multitasking. Anyone working with apps is going to have multiple programs running.
 
G

golem

Member
Shogmaster said:
HELL no. A mobo's only around $100, and for that, you can let that P4 stretch it's legs with dual channel RAM! 2.8C is such a waste on a 845 board....
Click to expand...

he can squeeze out a few more months of gaming on his old rig and snag ddr2 and pcie next year. why swap all those components if you're only going up to a 3.0 chip
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
"he can squeeze out a few more months of gaming on his old rig and snag ddr2 and pcie next year. why swap all those components if you're only going up to a 3.0 chip"

Ummm... a 3.0 C is like 5 times faster than a P4 1.7 GHz.

And the PCI-E and DDR2 mobos are already out. They're expensive and suck. The P4 C series outperforms those P4 530 nonsense.

Unless he's waiting until Fall 2005...AGP and PCI is the way to go.

http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040712/index.html

Damn, I really need to quote anandtech or someone else...but tom's is so easy.
 
D

DonasaurusRex

Online Ho Champ
A64, A64XP whatever I meant the Athlon 64 geez. Tomshardware nice site..., maybe i should put up some reviews from www.amdzone.com as a rebuttal eh? Anyway this is how Toms sums up the review:

A look at the benchmark results reveals that there are only few areas where Intel dominates. While the synthetic benchmarks often speak in favor of Intel's 3+ Gigahertz chips, there are only few real-life applications left that run better with Intel inside: audio/video encoding and some rendering applications. Games and multimedia applications have already been a domain of AMD's Athlon64, and the new Socket 939 processors underscored that fact.

and Techreport explained a big reason why Intels even have this advantage:

The 3000+ escapes Cinebench largely unscathed. None of the AMD processors can keep up with the competing P4s in the rendering test, in part because Cinebench uses Intel's SIMD extensions and Hyper-Threading very effectively.

For instance in the POV benchmark in the Techreport review shows the athlon kicking ass in the rendering test. Hyperthreading and higher clockspeed did nothing for the scores. Interesting that Toms didnt use that test most other sites utilize POV.

So you see intels market pressence influences alot of software optimization for its chips. However in the next gen this may change because of amd being ready first with 64bit extensions windows 64 will be optimized and mad full compatible for amd's implementation forcing intel to follow suit for once now they have to play the compatability game like amd has done for years.

In the end its the tests that are chosen to showcase the hardware that sway the outcome.
 
T

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
That review from tom's was about the new socket 939s compared to both old amd and intel. Obviously AMD has the edge in that respect.

However, this guy is buying something on a medium end budget. Socket 939s are freakin expensive.

Socket 754 is a good alternative. I'd personally go with a 3.0 C because they overclock like crazy.
 
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