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[paskowitz]

This is why the Public Relations industry and professionals exist. It really does seem to be an issue for sim racing games. Gran Turismo, terrible PR. pCARS/SMS, terrible PR. AC/Kunos, etc.

IMO Turn 10 has probably done the best job. Not perfect, but at least they engage with positive intent.

 

[Big Takeover]

So what's the science behind "heel toeing" (I believe that is what it's called), when people push brake and gas with their right feet at the same time they clutch? Stability?

In a road car with synchromesh transmission, yes. That and mechanical sympathy.

However most race car transmissions (dog box) don't use synchromesh like road cars, therefore you need to match the revs manually. The car simply won't downshift into gear unless you blip the throttle. So that's three pedals you need to operate at the same time with only two feet

Depending on the car, there's also the option of not using the clutch at all on downshifts. You'll see the majority of NASCAR drivers drive like that on road courses, for example. Left foot brake, and blip the throttle with the right.

Of course sequential transmissions have all but taken over, so this specific to older, or inexpensive race cars that still use dog boxes.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

If you are going at high speed and have to press the clutch pedal and let the revs fall to idle speed, when you let go of the clutch the engine that is now at low revs will act as a brake until the engine speed has risen again to match the faster speed the transmission that is connected to the wheels is turning at. This will slow down and potentially unsettle the car.

I'm not a pro, but that's how I understand it.

On top of that: A brake that is acting only at the rear wheels in a RWD car. If you do so hard that the rear-wheels brake traction... it's not just "unsettling", it's the same effect like pulling the handbrake for like half a second, which is not advisable especially mid-corner

By "blipping" the throttle and only shifting down gear by gear, you manually help the engine and drive-shaft to sync before engaging the clutch. If you do the rev-match-blip perfectly, you can even shift gears in normal cars without engaging/disengaging the clutch (in race cars with non-helical transmission gears it's easier btw).

 

[DD]

On top of that: A brake that is acting only at the rear wheels in a RWD car. If you do so hard that the rear-wheels brake traction... it's not just "unsettling", it's the same effect like pulling the handbrake for like half a second, which is not advisable especially mid-corner

That's the feeling I have everytime I try the Audi R8 GT3 on RaceRoom. I effing HATE that car.

 

[Ocho]

I hit this guy the other day by accident (first time officially racing in that track and missed the brake --- I also missed the start lol), and he went full mad max. I mean, sure, it was my fault, but c'mon man you're racing in rookie league.

https://www.twitch.tv/ocho__/v/113717176

 

[DD]

I hit this guy the other day by accident (first time officially racing in that track and missed the brake --- I also missed the start lol), and he went full mad max. I mean, sure, it was my fault, but c'mon man you're racing in rookie league.

https://www.twitch.tv/ocho__/v/113717176

F*ck this guy! :<

 

[TylerDurden4321]

That's the feeling I have everytime I try the Audi R8 GT3 on RaceRoom. I effing HATE that car.

But GT3 cars have auto-blip... must be something else or does RaceRoom not have that feature?
Not sure, maybe I just always drove GT3 with auto-clutch on in that game, but I never had problems downshifting the GT3 cars(I did drive the Audi quite a bit a year ago or so). The Formula Junior on the other hand in that game... boy, that definitely needs heel-and-toeing (which btw sucks with the pedals I have and my UK size 5.5 feet).

 

[Hakkelus]

My ankles ache every time I just see someone "heel toeing".

 

[Makikou]

But GT3 cars have auto-blip... must be something else or does RaceRoom not have that feature?
Not sure, maybe I just always drove GT3 with auto-clutch on in that game, but I never had problems downshifting the GT3 cars(I did drive the Audi quite a bit a year ago or so). The Formula Junior on the other hand in that game... boy, that definitely needs heel-and-toeing (which btw sucks with the pedals I have and my UK size 5.5 feet).

RaceRoom does have auto-cut and auto-blip so IDK really what he is talking about. Of course you can get it to happen if you just put the brake bias way more into the rear but still..

 

[Mascot]

...and my UK size 5.5 feet

Christ alive, those aren't feet. Those are hooves. How tall are you?

 

[DD]

But GT3 cars have auto-blip... must be something else or does RaceRoom not have that feature?
Not sure, maybe I just always drove GT3 with auto-clutch on in that game, but I never had problems downshifting the GT3 cars(I did drive the Audi quite a bit a year ago or so). The Formula Junior on the other hand in that game... boy, that definitely needs heel-and-toeing (which btw sucks with the pedals I have and my UK size 5.5 feet).

RaceRoom does have auto-cut and auto-blip so IDK really what he is talking about. Of course you can get it to happen if you just put the brake bias way more into the rear but still..

Yeah, but the Audi has a tendency to try to kill me when I go down a gear mid turn. I know what is happening, but the R8 is much worse than the other cars I tried on that area. I also own a BMW Z4 and a Camaro in that class, and they are both fine (the Camaro is so sweet and easy to drive!), but the Audi is a killer. As an Audi fan, I really tried to adapt, but I gave up.

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Christ alive, those aren't feet. Those are hooves. How tall are you?

Pleased to meet you, hope you guess my name

Spoiler

5' 6-7" not a bad F1 driver height, I'm between Massa and Alonso

 

[TJP]

Another home track from Sector 3 - Mantorp has just been announced. Photos here: https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/raceroom/

Discussion behind the scenes is that the tracks are based off, unsurprisingly, Race/GTR data with upgrades from Feels3 and the other S3 artists.

All DTM experiences will be updated to the latest physics using the wealth of feedback from Mr Spengler.

 

[TJP]

Humble store link: https://www.humblebundle.com/store/search/genre/Racing

 

[Ocho]

For those that play iRacing, I finally reached D class, what road race cup do you guys feel I should try now?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"For those that play iRacing, I finally reached D class, what road race cup do you guys feel I should try now?"

I mean, your decision is kind of made for you unless you want to spend money: Racing the Cadillac CTS-V in the Global Fixed Challenge. Technically, you also own the Skip Barber, Spec Ford Racer, and the Pontiac Solstice, but those series are currently at tracks you have to pay for. The most popular D series (by far) is the Skip Barber.

 

[Ocho]

"For those that play iRacing, I finally reached D class, what road race cup do you guys feel I should try now?"

I mean, your decision is kind of made for you unless you want to spend money: Racing the Cadillac CTS-V in the Global Fixed Challenge. Technically, you also own the Skip Barber, Spec Ford Racer, and the Pontiac Solstice, but those series are currently at tracks you have to pay for. The most popular D series (by far) is the Skip Barber.

Yeah, paying for tracks/cars is no problem at all. I'll try Skip Barber.

 

[Teknopathetic]

Keep in mind that since you already own the Skip Barber you can give it a whirl on the free tracks first to see if it's even a car you'd want to drive.

 

[Makikou]

Skip Barber is easy because there is really 1 setup to use that's best for all tracks.
Skip also has quite a lot of draft so the skill gaps tend to get a little bit smaller because the draft compensates so much and you can use it to hang onto the pace of faster drivers.

I imagine Cadillac is ok? I can't even remember the last time I drove that thing.

 

[Betta Lines]

Yeah, paying for tracks/cars is no problem at all. I'll try Skip Barber.

When you get fed up with people taking you out, join Big Takeover and myself in the SRF.

 

[Dave_6]

Been doing a lot of iRacing the past couple of weeks myself. I was already class D in road racing but got my oval one up to D as well. I already have the SRF and the Skip but I've yet to actually race the SRF. I did one of the Le Mans races with the Skip the other night; considering the length of the track, the race was actually pretty fun.

 

[Ocho]

When you get fed up with people taking you out, join Big Takeover and myself in the SRF.

SRF?

 

[Teknopathetic]

"SRF?"

Spec Racer Ford, the one whose initials I got backwards.

 

[AnythingBut]

What would you guys say is the best wheel/pedals combo sub $1000?

Just noticed this and as a T300/CSP V3 user I thought I'd chime in.

Had the T300 a while now, more than happy with it, but the clubsport's I got very recently. With a code from iracing I got the brake performance kit for free when I ordered 'em, plus it only took 3 days from ordering to getting em delivered here in the UK.

The CSP's felt good stock but once the bpk was fitted they really began to shine. Have mine fairy soft for feel currently and just the control under your foot is just sublime. More than worth the price if your into your sim racing.

The one aside is if you plan to use the T300/CSP combo on a console you'll need a basherboard cpx to enable the pedals to fit directly to the wheel.

 

[Big Takeover]

For those that play iRacing, I finally reached D class, what road race cup do you guys feel I should try now?

I would also suggest that just because you can now drive other cars, doesn't mean you should immediately run off to do so. You can learn so much about going fast, and clean racing in an MX5, or SRF. I own nearly all the road content, and I still think these cars/races are some of the most fun you can have on the service.

 

[Ocho]

Skip Barber is actually really fun to drive. Ran some laps in Laguna Seca, a lot more responsive than the MX-5 (expected I guess). I'll start practicing for next week's rotation.

 

[Dave_6]

Just noticed this and as a T300/CSP V3 user I thought I'd chime in.

Had the T300 a while now, more than happy with it, but the clubsport's I got very recently. With a code from iracing I got the brake performance kit for free when I ordered 'em, plus it only took 3 days from ordering to getting em delivered here in the UK.

The CSP's felt good stock but once the bpk was fitted they really began to shine. Have mine fairy soft for feel currently and just the control under your foot is just sublime. More than worth the price if your into your sim racing.

The one aside is if you plan to use the T300/CSP combo on a console you'll need a basherboard cpx to enable the pedals to fit directly to the wheel.

I'm going to order the brake performance kit and the damper this week for mine. I ordered mine ~4 months ago before the brake kit was even out. I haven't been able to use them until this weekend though; they kept wanting to move around or lift up when on the brakes and especially when trying to heel and toe. Well I finally decided to take them back out of the box yesterday to come up with something; this is what me and a friend came up with:

Redneck engineering at it's finest I'm going to get some thin carpet (like on a speaker box) to cover it eventually but it does the damn job though. I can get on the brake as hard as I can and they don't budge Going to take a few days of adjustment after using G27 pedals for so long though.

 

[AxeMan]

I would also suggest that just because you can now drive other cars, doesn't mean you should immediately run off to do so. You can learn so much about going fast, and clean racing in an MX5, or SRF. I own nearly all the road content, and I still think these cars/races are some of the most fun you can have on the service.

I've a C class license and I still mostly race in the MX5 cup

 

[Darkdeus]

Redneck engineering at it's finest I'm going to get some thin carpet (like on a speaker box) to cover it eventually but it does the damn job though. I can get on the brake as hard as I can and they don't budge Going to take a few days of adjustment after using G27 pedals for so long though.

Yea I did the same thing with my v2 pedals and it works great. I just entered up painting the board too to help it blend it.

Old versus new setup:
http://imgur.com/a/siQuF

 

[Dave_6]

Yea I did the same thing with my v2 pedals and it works great. I just entered up painting the board too to help it blend it.

Old versus new setup:
http://imgur.com/a/siQuF

Nice! Your setup looks better than mine! I'm probably going to have to drill another set of holes in the boards though; if I get the damper for the brake there isn't enough room now as the pedals are too close to the wall. Guess I could just paint mine as well.

I have done some practice with the SRF in iRacing but I decided to run my first race with it last night. Let's just say I need more practice. :/ The sudden oversteer is something else! That or Watkins Glen was incredibly slick last night.

 

[Big Takeover]

I ran this setup for many, many years. It's infinitely better than just the pedals on the floor.

I have done some practice with the SRF in iRacing but I decided to run my first race with it last night. Let's just say I need more practice. :/ The sudden oversteer is something else! That or Watkins Glen was incredibly slick last night.

The car is unusual to drive because of it's rearward weight distribution, paired with good mechanical grip. It definitely takes some getting used to.

It's a great car to learn in because it forces you to be very disciplined with your braking points, and entry speeds. These are generally things that won't cause you to outright crash in most other cars, however they don't teach much about them either. Late on the brakes here, a few mile an hour extra entry there, and you'll have a slow corner in a converted road car. Chances are you won't even bother to look back at it critically. If you do those things in an SRF, you can be going backwards in a hurry. You really have to stay disciplined.

It is a momentum car though, so even though I just said you can't take more, you also can't take less if you want to be quick. You really build a relationship with the car as you find all those nuggets of speed just underneath it's set-in-stone limits.

Tips:

Brake early and straight. Creep it up a little at a time to find the limit. Never go deeper than you've been before in the heat of battle. Stay disciplined to your braking points.

You want to get back to the throttle as early as possible because that's what's you use to stabilize the car. You can shift the weight backwards (on throttle) to get the weight off the nose, and stabilize a sliding rear end, or shift it forwards (off throttle) to get the car to rotate and turn-in.

Do a practice lap(s) of driving off-line in brake zones at every new track. You're going to be spending time there. What the car does with a shallower entry line surprises lots of people. The extra lock need to make the corner amplifies it's nature for the back to overtake the front.

Be smooth and conservative and prey on those who aren't.

 

[Mascot]

Jeepers, people actually try to use pedals without them being locked down tight? Just a few millimetres of movement is enough to fuck up your day. Behold, potato pics of my ghetto solution from 1974:

Packed flat for storage in less than a minute too!

 

[Dave_6]

The car is unusual to drive because of it's rearward weight distribution, paired with good mechanical grip. It definitely takes some getting used to.

It's a great car to learn in because it forces you to be very disciplined with your braking points, and entry speeds. These are generally things that won't cause you to outright crash in most other cars, however they don't teach much about them either. Late on the brakes here, a few mile an hour extra entry there, and you'll have a slow corner in a converted road car. Chances are you won't even bother to look back at it critically. If you do those things in an SRF, you can be going backwards in a hurry. You really have to stay disciplined.

It is a momentum car though, so even though I just said you can't take more, you also can't take less if you want to be quick. You really build a relationship with the car as you find all those nuggets of speed just underneath it's set-in-stone limits.

Tips:

Brake early and straight. Creep it up a little at a time to find the limit. Never go deeper than you've been before in the heat of battle. Stay disciplined to your braking points.

You want to get back to the throttle as early as possible because that's what's you use to stabilize the car. You can shift the weight backwards (on throttle) to get the weight off the nose, and stabilize a sliding rear end, or shift it forwards (off throttle) to get the car to rotate and turn-in.

Do a practice lap(s) of driving off-line in brake zones at every new track. You're going to be spending time there. What the car does with a shallower entry line surprises lots of people. The extra lock need to make the corner amplifies it's nature for the back to overtake the front.

Be smooth and conservative and prey on those who aren't.

Thanks, I'll re-read all this today and try to run as many practice laps tonight as I can. I never crashed into anyone else but I hit the barriers enough (all off of turn 1 at the Glen) that it knocked my safety rating down a handful of points. I'd run ~5 quick laps then have a big spin or off; it is just so tricky to drive but I just need many more laps. I definitely learned that I can't late brake and turn in at the same time in it, or even let off the throttle while turning.

Jeepers, people actually try to use pedals without them being locked down tight? Just a few millimetres of movement is enough to fuck up your day. Behold, potato pics of my ghetto solution from 1974:

Packed flat for storage in less than a minute too!

G27 pedals can be used that way but definitely nothing with a load cell, as I found out first hand.

 

[Mascot]

G27 pedals can be used that way but definitely nothing with a load cell, as I found out first hand.

It was surprisingly solid. The pedals were screwed to the board and nothing moved, but yeah, stamping on a load cell might have been a different story. It was a great cheap-ass solution at the time though.

For the record, I have moved on since then...

 

[VVV Mars VG]

Jeepers, people actually try to use pedals without them being locked down tight? Just a few millimetres of movement is enough to fuck up your day. Behold, potato pics of my ghetto solution from 1974:

Packed flat for storage in less than a minute too!

Quality! I wish I could have shown you my shitty set-up from 1996 with the Mad Catz running Need For Speed 1, it wasn't pretty, nor all that good really.

 

[Betta Lines]

Thanks, I'll re-read all this today and try to run as many practice laps tonight as I can. I never crashed into anyone else but I hit the barriers enough (all off of turn 1 at the Glen) that it knocked my safety rating down a handful of points. I'd run ~5 quick laps then have a big spin or off; it is just so tricky to drive but I just need many more laps. I definitely learned that I can't late brake and turn in at the same time in it, or even let off the throttle while turning.

Eventually you'll be doing both, the latter being particularly important for finding speed. It's a car that needs to be steered with the pedals to be quick. I would focus on the next track rather than doing Watkins Glen - I don't think WG is a very good place to learn the car, because it takes so long to get to the next corner.

 

[Mascot]

Quality! I wish I could have shown you my shitty set-up from 1996 with the Mad Catz running Need For Speed 1, it wasn't pretty, nor all that good really.

I thought that MS wheel was the business back in the day. Soooooooo lifelike!

 

[Dave_6]

Eventually you'll be doing both, the latter being particularly important for finding speed. It's a car that needs to be steered with the pedals to be quick. I would focus on the next track rather than doing Watkins Glen - I don't think WG is a very good place to learn the car, because it takes so long to get to the next corner.

New track is up today, right? I can't log on until a few hours from now and I haven't gotten familiar with the schedule yet.

 

[Betta Lines]

New track is up today, right? I can't log on until a few hours from now and I haven't gotten familiar with the schedule yet.

Unfortunately the first race of the week (which is always well attended) starts at 0:45 in the UK. Road Atlanta Short, which is a fun one to learn

 

[Dave_6]

Unfortunately the first race of the week (which is always well attended) starts at 0:45 in the UK. Road Atlanta Short, which is a fun one to learn

Nice, I'll definitely run some laps there tonight. Won't be racing until I've got a much better feel for the the car though.

 

[paskowitz]

Thanks, I'll re-read all this today and try to run as many practice laps tonight as I can. I never crashed into anyone else but I hit the barriers enough (all off of turn 1 at the Glen) that it knocked my safety rating down a handful of points. I'd run ~5 quick laps then have a big spin or off; it is just so tricky to drive but I just need many more laps. I definitely learned that I can't late brake and turn in at the same time in it, or even let off the throttle while turning.

G27 pedals can be used that way but definitely nothing with a load cell, as I found out first hand.

The trick is doing it at the right time. I highly recommend picking up Ross Bentley's Ultimate Speed Secrets and Carroll Smith's Drive To Win. I read those two during 2014 GT Academy online trials and they both helped immensely.

 

[TechnicMOC]

Nice, I'll definitely run some laps there tonight. Won't be racing until I've got a much better feel for the the car though.

Remember you can also use spectate model to drive during the race. You're a ghost, no one can see you and you can't hit anyone. But you can follow racers and check their brake points, turn in, lines etc. Can really help improve times.
Make sure your FOV is set correctly and watch out for turning in too early.

 

[chrislowe]

maybe a little offtopic, but im thinking of buying a playseat challenge for my racingsim setup. have anyone one of those? how are the quality? signs of wear?
is the steeringwheel sitting firmly and will not move when steering quickly?

 

[Betta Lines]

maybe a little offtopic, but im thinking of buying a playseat challenge for my racingsim setup. have anyone one of those? how are the quality? signs of wear?
is the steeringwheel sitting firmly and will not move when steering quickly?

I've only sat in a more conventional Playseat model, so I can't give you a direct impression of the Challenge. Looking at the video reviews on YouTube it looks like there is going to be a significant amount of wobble. You're trading stability for portability - this kind of foldable solution isn't going to be as solid as a fixed rig. It does seem to be one of the best folding options though. Hopefully someone here has owned one and can tell you about durability.

 

[chrislowe]

I've only sat in a more conventional Playseat model, so I can't give you a direct impression of the Challenge. Looking at the video reviews on YouTube it looks like there is going to be a significant amount of wobble. You're trading stability for portability - this kind of foldable solution isn't going to be as solid as a fixed rig. It does seem to be one of the best folding options though. Hopefully someone here has owned one and can tell you about durability.

yes, its the foldable solution that I really like, since its easy to store in the closet when not in use.
And it seems that Playseat have a good reputation.

 

[Makikou]

maybe a little offtopic, but im thinking of buying a playseat challenge for my racingsim setup. have anyone one of those? how are the quality? signs of wear?
is the steeringwheel sitting firmly and will not move when steering quickly?

I can tell you it's flimsy as fuck and the wheel stand will twist and move up and down like a mofo when you use it.

Source: Had the "luck" to try one once.

 

[TJP]

Details here: https://www.studio-397.com/2017/01/roadmap-update-january-2017/

DX11 update coming along nicely
New UI looks great IMO

 

[chrislowe]

I can tell you it's flimsy as fuck and the wheel stand will twist and move up and down like a mofo when you use it.

Source: Had the "luck" to try one once.

Oh. Too bad.
Do you have any better suggestion for like 250usd?

 

[TylerDurden4321]

Oh. Too bad.
Do you have any better suggestion for like 250usd?

What about a Wheelstand Pro ? No seat, but it's cheaper and can take some serious torque (Thrustmaster T500 on 100% is no problem for that thing).
Other downsides are the shifter-mounting solution (it's complete joke) and that folding it is not as easy as you want it to be. It's better for "I got a new racing game and will play it for 2 weeks, so this will stay set up for that time", not so good for "I think I'm gonna put in 10 laps in that new DLC car today".

 

[chrislowe]

What about a Wheelstand Pro ? No seat, but it's cheaper and can take some serious torque (Thrustmaster T500 on 100% is no problem for that thing).
Other downsides are the shifter-mounting solution (it's complete joke) and that folding it is not as easy as you want it to be. It's better for "I got a new racing game and will play it for 2 weeks, so this will stay set up for that time", not so good for "I think I'm gonna put in 10 laps in that new DLC car today".

Will have a look tomorrow.
Also found one called dxracer racing sinulator table that is sturdy and pretty easy to get into the closet when not in use.