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Penn State football pedophilia thread (UPDATE: NCAA sanctions handed down)
- Thread starter BertramCooper
- Start date
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Don't shut the school down. Give Penn State Football the death penalty and create a more transparent and open leadership structure that is reviewed annually by outside organizations at the expense of Penn State to ensure that the structure in place is being adhered to. Reintroduce Penn State's football program when Penn State is able to handle having a football program that does not override and manipulate overall school systems like disciplining of students and faculty related to the football and athletics program.
Roland Garros
Banned
This is already affecting everyone though. That's much different from directly punishing them from crippling the school.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Dude, I don't know what your problem is, but I'm seriously asking you to show me an article or video of riots TODAY.
I was never referring to the day Paterno was fired. You either misunderstood me or you're going out of your way to be difficult.
Roland Garros
Banned
Huh? What are you even trying to say here?
The point of it is that a riot happened LAST time. Measures were taken to prevent it from happening again. Other posters have understood this. How come YOU can't?
Someone here is going out of their way to be difficult. However, it isn't me.
I bet Phil Knight feels pretty foolish right about now.
VelvetMouth
Member
I think what he's trying to say is that let the ignorant fools expose themselves and take actions against them. People who are innocent are not going to be at these riots. It's like sifting out the bad apples. Get rid off all the people who support the cover up and that includes rioting students.
Count Dookkake
Member
Why are you so hateful?!?!?
I know Im oversimplifying but I honestly do not see how the NCAA can justify NOT shutting the football program down. To me that sends a message that shady football dealings are much worse crimes than facilitating child rape.
yankeehater
Member
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
The students rioted the first time because Paterno was fired and they had already gathered in a gigantic mob on his front lawn.
This is a small group of people watching a television.
Now, if you can explain to me without going all "LOL U IDIOT DURRRRRR" how it would cause a riot, I'll drop it.
Roland Garros
Banned
Why do you insist on consistently disrupting discussions with your banal and unfunny interjections?
I think we're having a good discussion here, please let it be.
Count Dookkake
Member
I did not know that we had a new mod. Huh.
Given his antics at Paterno's funeral, he really had no choice but to move quickly. I award him no goodwill points for his action.
Dude Abides
Banned
Because shady football dealings are what the NCAA deals with. Child rape is what the judicial authorities deal with. The NCAA does have a morals clause but they have never dealt with something like this.
Considering the fact that it is summer session right now I think the chance for a riot today is pretty minimal.
Sadly they chose to release this report during the Central Pennsylvania Arts Festival (known at PSU as Arts Fest) when thousands upon thousands of students, alums, and visitors come to State College, typically getting into town Friday for the weekend. There have been documented riots at Arts Fest before, I believe there was a race-based riot in '98 or '99, so the precedent is there. Hopefully there aren't too many idiots deciding to do stupid things this time, but I'm not optimistic.
Sadly they chose to release this report during the Central Pennsylvania Arts Festival (known at PSU as Arts Fest) when thousands upon thousands of students, alums, and visitors come to State College, typically getting into town Friday for the weekend. There have been documented riots at Arts Fest before, I believe there was a race-based riot in '98 or '99, so the precedent is there. Hopefully there aren't too many idiots deciding to do stupid things this time, but I'm not optimistic.
Roland Garros
Banned
They're minimizing the possibility of an incident happening. We don't truly know the amount of people watching the television because the article was intentionally written to paint the school in an unflattering light. The school has had issues before, they are ensuring similar incidents do not take place again. This is basic corporate health and safety mentality.
The schools' actions were justified.
I already explained it. Do you think Penn State officials have a crystal ball? Do you think they know how many people are going to be standing around watching university TVs ahead of time? Of course not. This is merely a planned-ahead-of-time package of precautions they put in place after the debacle of joe pa's firing. Not some insidious plot.
Again, several other posters have said the same thing. How come you are the only one seemingly not able to grasp this?
And as I've said before, if the NCAA were to apply the morals clause to these off-field antics, then they'd be coming down when a coach fucks the secretary, when a kid is pulled over with weed/booze/guns, when an AD is pulled over drunk with some trashy girl's panties in his lap, etc. etc. But they never do. I wouldn't expect them to start now.
No shit. Can you tell me what the point of having a "morals clause" is if you dont punish the act of children being raped in an NCAA locker room?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Other people have agreed with me.
Even if no one agreed with me, I still don't think suppressing information is the right thing to do.
Dude Abides
Banned
No shit? Why did you ask the question if you already knew the answer?
A lot of agreements have catch-all provisions that are never enforced. Why don't you ask the NCAA why they have a morals clause that they don't enforce?
Hari Seldon
Member
Probably because they would get fucking destroyed in court if they tried to enforce it.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
I don't think there's any question now. Death penalty incoming.
VelvetMouth
Member
You got told son!
And to be clear, it's not punishing the school because Sandusky was a pedophile. It's punishing the school for not acting on the information it had, for covering it up, and for putting the football program above all else. That should fall under the NCAA's jurisdiction. If it doesn't, then their rules are fucked up and inadequate.
Why not?
This is patently false. PSU received massive quantities of donations after the Sandusky stuff came out. Free market stigma-based punishment obviously doesn't work.
Why do you hate children?
VelvetMouth
Member
I just can't see them going that far. The end of the football program is the end of all sports programs. Football pays for the sports programs like the golf team who bring no money to the university. Cut those programs and now you have to cut coaches as well. I also don't think the allumni would stand for it and without those big donations the university will buckle.
Well I never asked you anything, I assume everyone knows the NCAA isnt a criminal enforcement agency thats why I said "no shit". Fact is these events took place on school property which as far as I can tell is in the NCAA's reach. I think the football program should be shut down, but I dont think they are going to shit other than maybe make them bowl ineligible for like 3 years.
Exactly.
So you are telling me a court would overturn a football program being shut down by the NCAA for not meeting the criteria of their moral clause when that school facilitated child rape for 14 years. Got it.
What're they gonna do? Riot?
I don't think trading golf for ruining a kid's life is worth it. If the golf program can't self fund then the university doesn't need it.
Roland Garros
Banned
VelvetMouth
Member
Stop donating millions of dollars to the uni.
By association? What the hell are you talking about?
You're advocating no punishment at all for the institution simply because the people who were in charge at the time are no longer there. What does guilt by association have to do with anything?
Current evidence says the opposite, if anything. And why would the NCAA care?
Roland Garros
Banned
Huh? The golf program didn't ruin the kids' life. Sandusky did, and all those who covered for him exacerbated it.
Too much hyperbole in your statement.
Dude Abides
Banned
True, you did not ask. You expressed incredulity about the likely outcome. I was trying to explain why you should not be so incredulous.
Many things happen on college campuses that the NCAA does not get involved in. They are there to enforce (or pretend to enforce) amateurism and the notion of "scholar athletes," not act as a general police force for anything that involves football and athletic staff.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
I hate to say it, but it boils down to three words.
Too fucking bad.
When one person screws up in a group or battalion, he's punished alongside everyone else. No, it's not fair. No, it's not their fault. But in order to create lasting change and a change in culture, sometimes you need to bring the hammer down with disregard of who gets hurt. And it's not like the students don't have options. They can transfer, go to other schools etc which will only hurt Penn State more. And I keep hearing about how the NCAA won't do it because the precedent isn't there. Well...MAKE THE FUCKING PRECEDENT. When you have everyone up to the staff of Penn State covering up this monster's actions, that is the very definition of lack of institutional control. This is what the people want, the country wants its pound of flesh, so give it to them.
"Don't touch football, or other shit will be shut down because football paid for it" sounds a lot like blackmail.
Thusly, I'll take losing golf over letting a corrupt football program go free.
Fair enough, wishful thinking on my part I guess.
VelvetMouth
Member
There are a ton of programs at universities that rely on funding from other money making programs. It's not fair for people who have nothing to do with this scandal to suffer because of the actions of a few.
Hari Seldon
Member
Lol you have some media filled bloodlust rage. Do we or do we not only punish people responsible for a crime in this country? Or do we throw everyone ever associated with the actual criminals into a gulag Stalin style?
Have fun with that.
Empyrean Heaven
Member
Harboring a known criminal is, last I checked, against the law.
VelvetMouth
Member
So let's shut down football, baseball, cycling or any sport in the US that's been touched by scandal while we're at it.
Roland Garros
Banned
You're saying that the new leaders, and the school as a whole, should be punished because of horrible crimes committed by people no longer there. You're basically implying the new structure should suffer as a result of association with past leaders. We've so far seen no evidence to suggest the new people are worthy of scrutiny.
If the new institutional heads can lift Penn State from the mire and put it on the right course, they should be allowed to.
Fenderputty
Banned
There really isn't anything in the NCAA rules that would punish an institution for allowing such a large cover up on an administrative level? I mean ... it's not just the rape. It's that they covered it up and allowed it to continue to prevent bad publicity and in turn hurt their atheltic department.
Hari Seldon
Member
Oh I must have missed it when anyone was accused of harboring a known criminal.
Sirpopopop
Member
Lane Kiffin didn't ruin USCw's football program. Reggie Bush did.
The present student athletes at SMU didn't ruin their football program did. Craig James did.
Urban Meyer didn't participate in tattoo gate. Terelle Pryor did.
AL Golden didn't participate in the U's scandals. Everyone else did.
Yet, these are the people who are laboring under the majority of the punishment. Just because there will be vast attendant damage to uninvolved parties doesn't mean that the NCAA/DOE should let the involved party escape with zero damage.
That involved party is the University of Penn State.
Dude Abides
Banned
I understand the desire to see something done to the program since the cover-up was clearly an attempt to protect it. And if there were ever a case for the NCAA to give its morals clause some teeth, this would be it.
But not Sports Law!
I'm saying that the school as a whole should be punished, yes.
What new structure? It's the same institution, with new people at the top.
Well yeah, obviously.
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