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[Neuromancer]

Michael Buckner, an attorney who specializes in NCAA cases, told ESPN.com's Joe Schad that the findings in the Freeh report don't necessarily violate NCAA rules.

"It documented a lack of institutional control (as it is generally defined and understood) at Penn State, but not the lack of control as defined in the NCAA Manual or articulated by the Committee on Infractions," Buckner said. "Naturally, (NCAA president Mark) Emmert could disregard this fact and pursue an unchartered and unsupported course of action. However, I would let the legal system (criminal and civil) do its job."

The U.S. Department of Education is examining whether the school violated the Clery Act, which requires reporting of certain crimes on campus, including ones of a sexual nature. The report said Penn State's "awareness and interest" in Clery Act compliance was "significantly lacking."

The Big Ten said Thursday it's continuing to monitor the Penn State investigation and is prepared to review the Freeh report.

"As we have said from the beginning, the conference will reserve judgment until all information surrounding the various proceedings is made available," the conference said in a statement. "Various federal, state and other investigations, including the grand jury investigation, are still ongoing, certain criminal trials have yet to begin, and key principals have yet to testify.

"The unprecedented nature of these circumstances requires a prudent, thoughtful and patient review. Until the record is complete and has been thoroughly reviewed by our Presidents and Chancellors, we do not anticipate commenting further."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8159195/report-says-penn-state-senior-officials-disregarded-children-welfare

 

[Enron]

Shutting off the TVs was done to avoid idiot students from rioting, not to HIDE THE TRUTH. I would have done the same thing if I were Penn State.

The NCAA is not going to give the Death Penalty to PSU. They might do something (though i doubt if they even do, it will that serious) but the Death Penalty won't be on the table for the following reasons.

1. The NCAA is crooked as fuck and $$$ drives all decisions.
2. Death Penalty'ing PSU will cost the university hundereds of millions of dollars.
3. Death Penalty'ing PSU will cost the Big10 and its member institutions millions of dollars.
4. Death Penalty'ing PSU will cost the NCAA millions of dollars.
5. Death Penalty'ing PSU will open PSU up to lawsuits from other Big10 member institutions seeking to recoup money lost to them because of PSUs Death Penalty.

 

[obijkenobi]

From Joe Schad's Twitter account.

If this doesn't show a lack of institutional control then they need to get rid of that term altogether. How absolutely ludicrous.

There was plenty of institutional control. It was used to cover this whole thing up for a decade

 

[Roland Garros]

But if the bad eggs have been thrown out of the program, in what I assume was the process undertaken, surely the new leaders shouldn't be punished for past (colossal) errors?

I understand the smell will remain for a long while but if the program can prove it's independent and has taken a revolutionary step forward, I feel they should be allowed to conduct the program.

The stigma will be bad enough punishment for the school/football program.

 

[Draxal]

As I see it, this is what's going to happen.

Trials for Curly/Schulz will occur (and perhaps Spanier). DOE hammers PSU for Clery violations (which is almost like the death penalty in scope), NCAA doesn't have to do nothing because the DOE did it's dirty work for them.

 

[Ponn]

He's a Lakers fan. They historically don't understand how riots work.

Lakers Fan + Rape + Wanting public outrage = does not compute

 

[devilhawk]

There is a morals clause in the NCAA rules that is broad enough to cover something like this. If the NCAA wants to come down on PSU, they will. If PSU is not punished it will not be due to a lack of a defined violation but instead the NCAA choosing not to.

 

[eznark]

NCAA is not going to give the Penn State football program the death penalty. At worst they will lose a some scholarships and not be able to compete in bowl games for 3 years. The days of the NCAA using a penalty like that, even for a case as serious as this, are long gone.

The NCAA only has two options. Not punish them at all and say it is not an athletic matter and should be dealt with in legal channels or give them the harshest punishment available. There really is no middle ground.

I can logically see either option being legitimate, but I cannot see a measure which says "yeah, institutionalized child rape falls under our jurisdiction but we're just gonna give them a mild punishment"

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Shutting off the TVs was done to avoid idiot students from rioting, not to HIDE THE TRUTH. I would have done the same thing if I were Penn State.

Wow.

 

[Enron]

Wow.

Uhm, did you see what happened when the story broke and when joepa was fired? Students rioted. How hard is this to understand? :/

http://news.yahoo.com/joe-paterno-fired-penn-state-students-riot-protest-082630177.html

 

[devilhawk]

Bylaw, Article 19, Enforcement

19.01.2 Exemplary Conduct. Individuals employed by or associated with member institutions for the administration, the conduct or the coaching of intercollegiate athletics are, in the final analysis, teachers of young people. Their responsibility is an affirmative one, and they must do more than avoid improper conduct or questionable acts. Their own moral values must be so certain and positive that those younger and more pliable will be influenced by a fine example. Much more is expected of them than of the less critically placed citizen.

This is pretty open and shut case for the NCAA in my opinion. The NCAA rules go beyond simply amateurism and academics in sports.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Uhm, did you see what happened when the story broke and when joepa was fired? Students rioted. How hard is this to understand? :/

http://news.yahoo.com/joe-paterno-fired-penn-state-students-riot-protest-082630177.html

Did you read the story? It was a small handful of people in the student center watching the TVs.

How would the release of this report cause an actual riot?

 

[Dan]

But if the bad eggs have been thrown out of the program, in what I assume was the process undertaken, surely the new leaders shouldn't be punished for past (colossal) errors?

I understand the smell will remain for a long while but if the program can prove it's independent and has taken a revolutionary step forward, I feel they should be allowed to conduct the program.

The stigma will be bad enough punishment for the school/football program.

That's a big if. They'll have to bring in a ton of people not affiliated with the previous administrations, which would surely be tricky both practically and politically. And of course, they'd have to even want to do that in the first place.

 

[Enron]

Did you read the story? It was a small handful of people in the student center watching the TVs.

How would the release of this report cause an actual riot?

Im willing to bet that other university tvs also switched over. Not just the student center TVs.

Also, what? do you think that university officials went around and counted people and said nope! not enough people to cause a riot! Hell no. They just had these precautions in place. What good would this do if your objective was to HIDE THE TRUTH anyways? You'd have to jam radio, cut off internet access, and not allow anyone to enter/leave campus. Pretty sure that wasn't the aim of these measures. Let's use our heads, people!

 

[gutshot]

There is a morals clause in the NCAA rules that is broad enough to cover something like this. If the NCAA wants to come down on PSU, they will. If PSU is not punished it will not be due to a lack of a defined violation but instead the NCAA choosing not to.

This is pretty open and shut case for the NCAA in my opinion. The NCAA rules go beyond simply amateurism and academics in sports.

Apparently not as one of the lead attorneys for the NCAA said this incident is outside the NCAA's jurisdiction and that them punishing PSU would be an "unchartered and unsupported course of action".

 

[Neuromancer]

They should erect a dome that blocks all incoming communication from the outside world over the campus, lest the students hear something they don't like and riot.

 

[JABEE]

But if the bad eggs have been thrown out of the program, in what I assume was the process undertaken, surely the new leaders shouldn't be punished for past (colossal) errors?

I understand the smell will remain for a long while but if the program can prove it's independent and has taken a revolutionary step forward, I feel they should be allowed to conduct the program.

The stigma will be bad enough punishment for the school/football program.

No it won't. This sin't just a case of a few bad eggs. That is how institutions like the military and church get away with their abuses of power. There needs to be major sanctions and reform to the power structure of Penn State. The supposed stigma will be ignored without severe punishments and changes to Penn State's overall University operations.

 

[Enron]

Apparently not as one of the lead attorneys for the NCAA said this incident is outside the NCAA's jurisdiction and that them punishing PSU would be an "unchartered and unsupported course of action".

I linked articles/quotes from former NCAA commissioners and head of the ethics committee saying the same thing, and the thread dismissed it as worthless because they were no longer serving in those capacities as if that were grounds enough to invalidate all their expertise.

I'd be very shocked if the NCAA did anything.

 

[Roland Garros]

Did you read the story? It was a small handful of people in the student center watching the TVs.

How would the release of this report cause an actual riot?

Did you read the original story about the TV's being turned off? There was a group of students watching the same TV where they originally heard the shocking news, and they rioted then. If today's report is even more damning, the school would reasonably suspect similar incidents could unfold, so they nipped it in the bud.

If spun as a 'THEYE HIDING THE TRUTH' thing I can see where the anger at the school's decision would be coming from, but standing back a little, it's a reasonable course of action considering the circumstances.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Im willing to bet that other university tvs also switched over. Not just the student center TVs.

Also, what? do you think that university officials went around and counted people and said nope! not enough people to cause a riot! Hell no. They just had these precautions in place. What good would this do if your objective was to HIDE THE TRUTH anyways? You'd have to jam radio, cut off internet access, and not allow anyone to enter/leave campus. Pretty sure that wasn't the aim of these measures. Let's use our heads, people!

You're contradicting yourself.

You're saying the televisions were switched over to prevent a riot while pointing out the futility of keeping the information hidden.

 

[Draxal]

I linked articles/quotes from former NCAA commissioners and head of the ethics committee saying the same thing, and the thread dismissed it as worthless because they were no longer serving in those capacities as if that were grounds enough to invalidate all their expertise.

I'd be very shocked if the NCAA did anything.

I wouldn't be, Emmert is practically drooling over this, he wants to stick it to Delaney bad.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Let the students riot. It's better for the world to see them as they are.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I linked articles/quotes from former NCAA commissioners and head of the ethics committee saying the same thing, and the thread dismissed it as worthless because they were no longer serving in those capacities as if that were grounds enough to invalidate all their expertise.

I'd be very shocked if the NCAA did anything.

People forget that the NCAA is not a government body with its rules determined by elected officials. It is an organization that exists entirely by the agreement and funding of schools, which I assume, sign legal contracts as to what the NCAA has jurisdiction over and what it does not.

 

[Roland Garros]

No it won't. This sin't just a case of a few bad eggs. That is how institutions like the military and church get away with their abuses of power. There needs to be major sanctions and reform to the power structure of Penn State. The supposed stigma will be ignored without severe punishments and changes to Penn State's overall University operations.

Hasn't the major reform already happened though? All those remotely connected to the cover-up seem to have been removed.

I was simply saying that if you were a mother/father and a Penn State letter slipped through the mailbox, you'd have reservations about the social stigma attached to the school.

 

[bro1]

Let the students riot. It's better for the world to see them as they are.

why all of this hatred for the students of Penn State? Do you know how many people are part of penn state from the faculty to students?

What happened was horrible and the people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However, the faculty, staff, and students have zero responsibility nor should they be punished for the actions of Spanier, Paterno, et al.

 

[Count Dookkake]

why all of this hatred for the students of Penn State? Do you know how many people are part of penn state from the faculty to students?

What happened was horrible and the people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However, the faculty, staff, and students have zero responsibility nor should they be punished for the actions of Spanier, Paterno, et al.

lol.

If they riot, it shows what scum they are.

I have no beef with those that vociferously differentiate themselves from the supporters and collaborators of the rape club.

 

[Neuromancer]

Let the students riot. It's better for the world to see them as they are.

Never forget

 

[Draxal]

why all of this hatred for the students of Penn State? Do you know how many people are part of penn state from the faculty to students?

What happened was horrible and the people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However, the faculty, staff, and students have zero responsibility nor should they be punished for the actions of Spanier, Paterno, et al.

There was outrage at the student body for caring more about Paterno/football and the victims. The vocal minority of the PSU fans that post on forums just have their heads in the sands.

I assume the quiet minority are extremely upset about how the victims were treated.

The school's going to get punished though, they clearly violated a federal law to an extent that no other school has ever done before (Clery Act).

 

[JABEE]

Hasn't the major reform already happened though? All those remotely connected to the cover-up seem to have been removed.

I was simply saying that if you were a mother/father and a Penn State letter slipped through the mailbox, you'd have reservations about the social stigma attached to the school.

That is in no way enough punishment for Penn State the university. Major reform is changing the way the University is structured and creating outside forces that insure that the new systems they put in place are being utilized in the correct manner.

Getting rid of the bad eggs does nothing but distance the University as an institution from their responsibility as a body that harbored and protected a child rapist. An executive or coach feeling that they had the power to do such a thing shows a huge ethics disaster at Penn State University as a whole.

 

[Enron]

You're contradicting yourself.

You're saying the televisions were switched over to prevent a riot while pointing out the futility of keeping the information hidden.

Oh good lord, do you really want to play this stupid game?

Turning off the tvs is just one of the precautions the university is taking. There's guaranteed to be more, maybe not as visual as that one.

If their goal was to hide the truth, that would be impossible without a lenghty campus blackout/lockdown and we all know that's not going to happen. Their goal is to keep everyone from finding out at once and assembling.

The JoePa firing riot cost the university a lot of money in manpower and also cost the county and city manpower hours as well. Whatever the university can do to minimize that risk is A-OK with me.

 

[Roland Garros]

You're contradicting yourself.

You're saying the televisions were switched over to prevent a riot while pointing out the futility of keeping the information hidden.

He's saying the school would reasonably assume a concentrated group of Penn State students may conform to the 'group think' when they all simultaneously heard the report, could be angry and emotional and pose a rioting threat.

it happened before, after all.

 

[Hari Seldon]

No it won't. This sin't just a case of a few bad eggs. That is how institutions like the military and church get away with their abuses of power. There needs to be major sanctions and reform to the power structure of Penn State. The supposed stigma will be ignored without severe punishments and changes to Penn State's overall University operations.

This IS the case of a few bad eggs. Who else was responsible? There were 4 people responsible for covering this up. No one else was responsible. There wasn't a culture of covering up all child abuse at Penn State, there was 1 cover up involving 4 people covering up 1 ex-employee.

 

[bro1]

lol.

If they riot, it shows what scum they are.

I have no beef with those that vociferously differentiate themselves from the supporters and collaborators of the rape club.

Yes, LOL, ha! because the students at main campus make up the whole university. Do you have any idea of how big the school is? How many branch campuses there are?

The Air Force right now is having major issues with a sexual abuse scandal. Are you going to shut down the Air Force or are you going to punish all of those involved?

Hate the people that did this horrible crime. Punish them to the fullest extent of the law, but give it a rest for the 100,000 students and staff that didn't do anything nor knew anthing about this tragedy.

 

[Count Dookkake]

You don't seem very good at reading.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

why all of this hatred for the students of Penn State? Do you know how many people are part of penn state from the faculty to students?

What happened was horrible and the people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However, the faculty, staff, and students have zero responsibility nor should they be punished for the actions of Spanier, Paterno, et al.

 

[Enron]

Oh hey, look at that, a RIOT.

 

[Neuromancer]

Oh hey, look at that, a RIOT.

This is why my dome idea is so good. Who knows what news may trigger another full scale riot?

 

[Joe Shlabotnik]

But if the bad eggs have been thrown out of the program, in what I assume was the process undertaken, surely the new leaders shouldn't be punished for past (colossal) errors?

I understand the smell will remain for a long while but if the program can prove it's independent and has taken a revolutionary step forward, I feel they should be allowed to conduct the program.

The stigma will be bad enough punishment for the school/football program.

It isn't really punitive enough to deter other institutions from covering up similar crimes for the sake of their programs, though. That's really the point of drastic punishment. If they're made aware of a reputation-shattering scandal, they might still gamble on covering it up because the program survives either way.

 

[JABEE]

This IS the case of a few bad eggs. Who else was responsible? There were 4 people responsible for covering this up. No one else was responsible. There wasn't a culture of covering up all child abuse at Penn State, there was 1 cover up involving 4 people covering up 1 ex-employee.

The university as whole that gave the coach of a football team the ability to override and make dictatorial decisions without review. It wasn't until the newspaper report and the point of no return that Joe Paterno was held responsible for his actions and fired.

 

[freenudemacusers]

They should erect a dome that blocks all incoming communication from the outside world over the campus, lest the students hear something they don't like and riot.

A dome would also make for a good second memorial to paterno.

 

[Roland Garros]

That is in no way enough punishment for Penn State the university. Major reform is changing the way the University is structured and creating outside forces that insure that the new systems they put in place are being utilized in the correct manner.

Getting rid of the bad eggs does nothing but distance the University as an institution from their responsibility as a body that harbored and protected a child rapist. An executive or coach feeling that they had the power to do such a thing shows a huge ethics disaster at Penn State University as a whole.

But you're viewing the current Penn State institutional structure as similar to the one which oversaw the cover-up, whereas I'm accepting that the new leadership structure should be given the benefit of the doubt for the immediate future. New people were brought in. The schools' ideology was shaken to the core. Of course they would have implemented fundamental processes to reasonably ensure something like the JoePa cover-up could never happen. again.

 

[Fenderputty]

why all of this hatred for the students of Penn State? Do you know how many people are part of penn state from the faculty to students?

What happened was horrible and the people need to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. However, the faculty, staff, and students have zero responsibility nor should they be punished for the actions of Spanier, Paterno, et al.

Rediculous. Other shchools get punished for the actions of a few. PLenty of people not related to the incident are affected by the punishment too.

 

[bro1]

You don't seem very good at reading.

Whatever. Fine, shut the school down. Burn it to the ground.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Oh hey, look at that, a RIOT.

Genuine question: Can you show me an article that said the students were rioting before or during the time this newest report was released?

I'm not referring to the riots when Paterno was fired, I'm talking about today.

 

[Fenderputty]

Whatever. Fine, shut the football program down. Burn it to the ground.

Fixed.

 

[Arrowgigantic]

Do you all realize the impact closing a school like PSU would have on the state and elsewhere?

How about you explain it relative to the impact of being 10 years old and having an old man's dick in your mouth?

 

[bro1]

Rediculous. Other shchools get punished for the actions of a few. PLenty of people not related to the incident are affected by the punishment too.

and how does that make it the right thing to do?

Shut down the football program for 10 years and fire all of the executives involved.

 

[Nelo Ice]

http://pittsburgh.sbnation.com/penn...dal-nike-to-remove-joe-paternos-name-from-its

The first of what could be many actions by corporations and partner institutions to distance themselves from the legacy of Joe Paterno has occurred, as CNBC's Darren Rovel reports that Nike will remove Paterno's name from its childcare center:

"I have been deeply saddened by the news coming out of this investigation at Penn State. It is a terrible tragedy that children were unprotected from such abhorrent crimes. With the findings released today, I have decided to change the name of our child care center at our World Headquarters. My thoughts are with the victims and the Penn State community."

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

and how does that make it the right thing to do?

That's the tragedy of selfish actions. It affects innocent people.

 

[Roland Garros]

It isn't really punitive enough to deter other institutions from covering up similar crimes for the sake of their programs, though. That's really the point of drastic punishment. If they're made aware of a reputation-shattering scandal, they might still gamble on covering it up because the program survives either way.

Fair point. Though you could say that about the 'death penalty' punishment as well. They could be even more willing to cover it up knowing the school is heading for oblivion.

It's a tough one.