Shin Johnpv
Member
What about the things you find humorous that others don't and would consider unfunny and lazy writing?
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Penny Arcade reopens the "dickwolves" controversy
- Thread starter darkpower
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What about the things you find humorous that others don't and would consider unfunny and lazy writing?
Mike was at it much longer than one day.
No doubt. Even in this thread so many "WELCOME TO THE INTERNET!" comments. PA actively went after and antagonized these people and Mike specifically spent a lot of energy taunting people about horrible things.
The comic was a comic strip.
The aftermath was a completely horrible shit show.
Kotaku has a story on this up and has comment on it from Robert Khoo: http://kotaku.com/penny-arcade-artist-pulling-dickwolves-merchandise-wa-1245440640
Kicked her out of PAX for showing too much skin, if I'm not mistaken... (?)
Kelegacy
XBOX - RECORD ME LOVING DOWN MY WOMAN GOOD
And you are a shining example of the evils of censorship.
partyphone
Banned
Yep. This. Why are all the PA defenders so quick to gloss over it?
Don't answer that question. The reason is super obvious.
Unhandled Exception
Member
I see the recent claims of regret as little more than not being able to deal with the fact that they handled something poorly and are unable to accept it. It really shouldn't have been brought up again by these guys, especially not in this way. But this isn't the first time PA has done off-putting shit in my eyes. Ben Kuchera regularly disgusts me and they fucking looooove that guy. More power to 'em I guess, just gives me more reason to ignore.
The actual point of the comic could have been made without the rape bit. There were plenty of ways to make it clear that it's dumb to rescue only x amount of people from a shitty situation but we do it because games say so. How the situation was handled from there just gets progressively more stupid.
Slappers Only
Junior Member
I could probably care if I wanted to. I don't.
It's videogames. It's the internet. If this really upsets you, go hang out with your kid sis.
It's videogames. It's the internet. If this really upsets you, go hang out with your kid sis.
The concern over pulling the shirt somehow "pouring gasoline on a sensitive discussion" seems to profoundly missed the point that the shirt's very existence poured far more gasoline on that fire. Either way, bringing this whole thing back up is one of the dumbest moves the PA guys could have made. Let it die.
AHA-Lambda
Member
Sorry, what's the Jessica Nigiri story?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
The shape of her body and willingness to pander resulted in a lucrative career?
Version 3.0
Member
I stopped reading PA years ago, only because I hadn't laughed at a strip for a long time.
Seems that the only time I notice them now is when they're being complete jerks. They also took the wrong side on game ownership / used games / intrusive DRM / required online, if I recall correctly.
A tasteless comic is not that big a deal. Their response is awful, just childish "la la, you can't tell me what to do" taunting. They really should just grow up a little.
Seems that the only time I notice them now is when they're being complete jerks. They also took the wrong side on game ownership / used games / intrusive DRM / required online, if I recall correctly.
A tasteless comic is not that big a deal. Their response is awful, just childish "la la, you can't tell me what to do" taunting. They really should just grow up a little.
lazorexplosion
Member
Of course it's the type of completely fictional rape of a fictional character by fictional and ridiculous beasts that actually don't exist that has happened to no one and is only referred to in fictional text in a non-serious and unreal context.
But other than that you're a crusader for good taking offense at rape itself. Kudos brave moral defender.
Gentleman Jack
Member
Er, that post is pretty clearly sarcastic.
The merch is still off the store. Dickwolves and Vaginawolves are a common topic every PAX. Is Mike never supposed to mention the controversy ever again?
Aaron Strife
Banned
To be fair I think that was someone else, not Mike or Jerry.
JeTmAn81
Member
LOL, I'm sure their first thought is to get rid of the guy who does all the art for their webcomics empire.
Neuromancer
Member
I don't think pulling the shirt poured any more gasoline on the fire, if anything it probably did the opposite.
Just so you know, you don't have to post in every thread about every piece of information/news you don't care about.
ThreePiMatt
Member
I was being sarcastic. I think this whole thing is ridiculously overblown.
Not quite the right thing, but close: "It's not the crime, it's the coverup."
That's kind of what's going on here. I think most folks would agree with the right to say offensive things in the right context, but if the speaker then turns around and vilifies his critics and openly mocks their sensibilities, then you've got a problem.
That's kind of what's going on here. I think most folks would agree with the right to say offensive things in the right context, but if the speaker then turns around and vilifies his critics and openly mocks their sensibilities, then you've got a problem.
lol yeah, that sounds like a stellar fucking plan.
I think it might actually work if they replaced him with the gal that does all the NSFW pics of Tycho and Gabe fucking.
I was at that panel yesterday, (a friend thought it was a Gaben panel by mistake) and those two are highly unlikable. Jerry is okay, he's the better of the two, but the way they were talking about money, and how they now have a lot of it was gross, but yet they need to kickstart a podcast for "reasons". PAX is fun, I do enjoy going but I wish it didn't revolve around their garbage so much, but that might go away with time. Robert Khoo is actually a pretty funny guy, for being Mr. hard-ass business and all.
Valtýr;79787169 said:
This whole thing stopped being about the joke ages ago. Whether you take issue with it or not, the strip by itself can only cause a minimal amount of controversy. The problem is the response. The way they've belittled those who did take issue and other boneheaded comments have done far, far more damage than anything the strip itself could have caused.
http://kotaku.com/5900134/skimpy-outfit-gets-lollipop-chainsaw-cosplayer-asked-to-leave-pax
I think I even posted something explaining the outline of that before three people posted asking what that was all about.
And this is from the "Dickwolves" people.
Schnozberry
Member
All I learned from this is that rape jokes are the worst thing on earth, yet simulations of grisly, realistic and indiscriminate murder are still perfectly acceptable. Hooray for video game culture.
They made the mistake of assuming enough people were capable of understanding authorial intent and the idea of criticizing something by including it in a discussion. Look even in this thread. The joke is not "rape is funny." If you think it is, you're simply wrong. The joke is "MMO game makers are using travesties in their writing in a really strange way considering the actual play mechanics." Highlighting the idea of rescuing five people from some recurring horror, but stopping at the sixth because you've "gotten enough for your quest" is precisely the point.
The reason Krahulik seems so flippant about how he responds to people critical of the "jokes about how funny rape is" is because he knows that's not what it is, and knows the attitudes the comic actually presents. Even this writeup goes to some lengths to obscure the actual intention of the comic, intention that should be clear given even a simple explanation of the MMO mechanics being highlighted. "Team Dickwolves" wasn't about how great rape is, it was about people who got the point of the comic in the first place.
This doesn't preclude people from being bothered by the tone of the comic. That's absolutely fine. But if you take the tone of the entire pool of content produced by Holkins and Krahulik, understand the purpose of the writing being criticized, and still come away saying they should shut down PAX and PA and everything associated with them (as some have in this very thread), then I can't help but categorize it like someone going to a comedian's show about how messed up racism is and complaining that the comedian is racist.
Some rape jokes are funny, and quite clever, but it does very much depend on the context. Lazy writers aren't usually funny... unless the entire point of their comedy is how lazy it is. People find all kinds of topics offensive or uncomfortable, and that's where the humor comes from, but there are lines. The strip wasn't particularly funny or offensive (to me) but I understand how people might see things differently in either extreme.
Bingo.
WarMacheen
Member
Yep, only race, deformities, religion, gender, social status, grooming habits, dick length, mental problems, and moobs, etc. are viable topics
Steve Youngblood
Member
Don't do this. I can understand the inclination to point out a perceived hypocrisy, but it needs to be understood that there isn't one all-encompassing voice for these criticisms. The fact that a rape joke can attract a certain amount of outrage is not really an indication that the populace at large hypocritically thinks that violence is a-okay.
Gentleman Jack
Member
It's impossible to measure the real impact pulling the merch had but it's worth noting that the Twitter harassment of Courtney Stanton reached that next level only after Mike acknowledged that the merch had indeed been pulled. There's no clear cause/effect since the objections from Stanton et al intensified after the merch went up to begin with and would have attracted the extra attention regardless, but I don't think anything died down after the merch pulled at all.
Version 3.0
Member
I don't pay enough attention to know for sure. Maybe it wasn't one of them with the recent Microsoft stuff, but long before that, I'm certain Tycho had done more than one of his absurd thesaurus-generated columns on the evils of used game sales.
Finaika
Member
Free speech, not rape victims imo.
Some people don't like something as serious as rape being utilized to set up a joke like that, when the comic would have worked without it.
The thing that some of you are all overlooking, whether intentionally or not, is that the controversy came from how PA responded to the criticism over the comic, not the comic itself.
It would have been one thing for them to have made the comic, heard criticism, said "yeah, whatever", and went back to playing ping-pong until they needed to shit out another comic two days later. Instead, they sold merchandise specifically to spite and antagonize the people that offered criticism. PA deserves all the backlash they get for how they've continually engaged this subject.
badcrumble
Member
Guys, the rape joke was less of a problem than the fact that the people who initially voiced complaints about the joke were threatened with rape and murder by Penny Arcade fans for doing that.
Krahulik has a pattern of going absolutely fucking nuts with nerd rage instead of backing down even a fraction of an inch when anybody calls him on something, and it's sort of fucked up.
Krahulik has a pattern of going absolutely fucking nuts with nerd rage instead of backing down even a fraction of an inch when anybody calls him on something, and it's sort of fucked up.
Are you deliberately ignoring the fact that most of this controversy stems from the comments and actions that took place afterwards, mostly by Mike? It's disingenuous to imply that this is all about a single strip, even if that was the catalyst for it all.
badcrumble
Member
My eyes are literally rolling down that hallway from Minority Report right now
I don't think we can really hold them responsible for some of the fans of their work on the Internet being idiot assholes.
When you consider that one indie dev pulled their support for the show because of this controversy...BEFORE they opened up the wound and poured a pound of salt on this, this might be a big deal!
Slappers Only
Junior Member
Thanks for the quote. Makes me feel important, the way my parents never did.
ThroneZwei
Banned
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