Penny Dreadful |OT| League of Extraordinary Gentleman, Take 2 - Sundays 10/9c

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Caliban can go at any time IMO. His storyline is dumb and any attempts they make to get the audience to feel bad for him just make me dislike him more.

His introduction doomed the character in my eyes. It was too sensationalistic. Don't portray him as some vindictive savant psychopath and then pull a complete 180 with him via "woe is me, I'm actually so kind" tripe.
 
Caliban can go at any time IMO. His storyline is dumb and any attempts they make to get the audience to feel bad for him just make me dislike him more.

His introduction doomed the character in my eyes. It was too sensationalistic. Don't portray him as some vindictive savant psychopath and then pull a complete 180 with him via "woe is me, I'm actually so kind" tripe.

He isn't a vindictive psychopath.
His situation makes it not so black and white, which is the case for many of the characters.
 
He isn't a vindictive psychopath.
His situation makes it not so black and white, which is the case for many of the characters.
He killed Proteus for literally no reason other than crazed jealousy and to make Frank suffer. It was ridiculous.

And if that's the way they wanted to go with the character, that's fine, but don't try and turn it on its head and make him something else entirely. The way he keeps confronting the doctor "do what I want or I'll kill you/your friends! But I'm actually so tortured and lonely and nice, so it's not my fault!" is beyond tiresome.

I get that this show isn't about clear cut character motivations or "good vs. bad", but his case is too extreme for me to buy into. It's very sloppily portrayed IMO.
 
He's "My victim status gives me the right to be a complete asshole" incarnate. Pity is definitely what I feel they're trying to accomplish w/ him, not empathy.
 
He's "My victim status gives me the right to be a complete asshole" incarnate. Pity is definitely what I feel they're trying to accomplish w/ him, not empathy.
I don't think either emotion is being successfully evoked.

Why should we feel pity for him? By making him so "intelligent" they've lost any right to attribute his behavior to naivety or aimless rage. He knows what he's doing and he does it anyway. Yeah, the circumstances of his current form are atrocious, but he's still a murderer and a psychopath, and he's chosen this behavior himself.
 
He killed Proteus for literally no reason other than crazed jealousy and to make Frank suffer. It was ridiculous.

He's just poorly developed in my eyes.
They want him to go both ways as the scary menace and the tragic martyr.
Problem is, both are rushed and therefore annoying and boring to look at.

He kills his brother and says it was mercy to kill him, as that was no life... then he wants a hot companion to bang and is willing to kill a living person to have one.
He contemplates suicide for being a creep and assaulting the actress, but it's like he totally forgot how he snapped the neck of a poor man who had done nothing to him, just to send a message and prove a point.
His terrible actions aren't the climax to a build up of tension, and that's why they don't register as the actions of a troubled individual, but those of a random bad guy, yet in the middle you get all of his moping and monologues about how cruel humans are, even though 70% of them have been overly kind to the guy

And to justify all of this, you'd have to actually show him suffer some major shit.
This was a time where very few people were having a comfortable life, you were born with mental illness, look at what Vanessa got through, you weren't white? You were a poor woman? you were deformed? You were gay? And so and so on.
People lived in absolute shit conditions by default, unless you were a well off white magnate or some shit (and even then you weren't really shielded from the poor understanding of medicine).
So to show him get pushed around once by a couple of drunks, and be called a "monster" once by an obviously asshole actor, doesn't really sell the struggle, especially when the same show juxtaposes it with the back story of Vanessa, or even just Chandler and Malcolm, who have clearly seen and done some major scarring shit in their "expeditions".
Even Dr. Frankenstein is shown to have a more tragic back story, with his mom vomiting blood on him (comically just after mourning the death of their dog) or Brona, having to suck dicks for a living just to not get married to an abusive and violent husband, and dying puking blood in the process.

To me, they just didn't sell the monster AT ALL, and that's why every time he's on screen i wish i could fast forward, and it's doubly annoying when a character like Van Helsing gets killed to further his shitty plot.
 
He's just poorly developed in my eyes.
They want him to go both ways as the scary menace and the tragic martyr.
Problem is, both are rushed and therefore annoying and boring to look at.

He kills his brother and says it was mercy to kill him, as that was no life... then he wants a hot companion to bang and is willing to kill a living person to have one.
He contemplates suicide for being a creep and assaulting the actress, but it's like he totally forgot how he snapped the neck of a poor man who had done nothing to him, just to send a message and prove a point.
His terrible actions aren't the climax to a build up of tension, and that's why they don't register as the actions of a troubled individual, but those of a random bad guy, yet in the middle you get all of his moping and monologues about how cruel humans are, even though 70% of them have been overly kind to the guy

And to justify all of this, you'd have to actually show him suffer some major shit.
This was a time where very few people were having a comfortable life, you were born with mental illness, look at what Vanessa got through, you weren't white? You were a poor woman? you were deformed? You were gay? And so and so on.
People lived in absolute shit conditions by default, unless you were a well off white magnate or some shit (and even then you weren't really shielded from the poor understanding of medicine).
So to show him get pushed around once by a couple of drunks, and be called a "monster" once by an obviously asshole actor, doesn't really sell the struggle, especially when the same show juxtaposes it with the back story of Vanessa, or even just Chandler and Malcolm, who have clearly seen and done some major scarring shit in their "expeditions".
Even Dr. Frankenstein is shown to have a more tragic back story, with his mom vomiting blood on him (comically just after mourning the death of their dog) or Brona, having to suck dicks for a living just to not get married to an abusive and violent husband, and dying puking blood in the process.

To me, they just didn't sell the monster AT ALL, and that's why every time he's on screen i wish i could fast forward, and it's doubly annoying when a character like Van Helsing gets killed to further his shitty plot.
Very good points. Can't find anything to disagree there. That's probably why I hope they kill him off quickly and don't drag his story along too long. He's meant to be pitied as tragic and despised as a hypocrite but as you say the events happen too suddenly and the pacing is off, so he's mostly just annoying.
 
Also wanted to ask, was there a reason why all the vampires kind of looked the same? I don't mean the two bald monsters, i mean all the blonde ladies.
Not sure if it was mentioned at some point, but since Mina is also a blonde, maybe Dracula just has that sort of taste or whatever, it looked kind of funny though when they got jumped by a hundred women all looking alike.
 
I just love Caliban. Not as character but what the actor brings to the role. Brings so much gravitas and charisma to the role that anytime he's on screen he's just captivating to watch it also helps that Victor is a piece of shit.
 
Also wanted to ask, was there a reason why all the vampires kind of looked the same? I don't mean the two bald monsters, i mean all the blonde ladies.
Not sure if it was mentioned at some point, but since Mina is also a blonde, maybe Dracula just has that sort of taste or whatever, it looked kind of funny though when they got jumped by a hundred women all looking alike.
Yeah I noticed that too. Attack of the vampire clones
 
He's just poorly developed in my eyes.
They want him to go both ways as the scary menace and the tragic martyr.
Problem is, both are rushed and therefore annoying and boring to look at.

He kills his brother and says it was mercy to kill him, as that was no life... then he wants a hot companion to bang and is willing to kill a living person to have one.
He contemplates suicide for being a creep and assaulting the actress, but it's like he totally forgot how he snapped the neck of a poor man who had done nothing to him, just to send a message and prove a point.
His terrible actions aren't the climax to a build up of tension, and that's why they don't register as the actions of a troubled individual, but those of a random bad guy, yet in the middle you get all of his moping and monologues about how cruel humans are, even though 70% of them have been overly kind to the guy

And to justify all of this, you'd have to actually show him suffer some major shit.
This was a time where very few people were having a comfortable life, you were born with mental illness, look at what Vanessa got through, you weren't white? You were a poor woman? you were deformed? You were gay? And so and so on.
People lived in absolute shit conditions by default, unless you were a well off white magnate or some shit (and even then you weren't really shielded from the poor understanding of medicine).
So to show him get pushed around once by a couple of drunks, and be called a "monster" once by an obviously asshole actor, doesn't really sell the struggle, especially when the same show juxtaposes it with the back story of Vanessa, or even just Chandler and Malcolm, who have clearly seen and done some major scarring shit in their "expeditions".
Even Dr. Frankenstein is shown to have a more tragic back story, with his mom vomiting blood on him (comically just after mourning the death of their dog) or Brona, having to suck dicks for a living just to not get married to an abusive and violent husband, and dying puking blood in the process.

To me, they just didn't sell the monster AT ALL, and that's why every time he's on screen i wish i could fast forward, and it's doubly annoying when a character like Van Helsing gets killed to further his shitty plot.
Pretty much sums it up.
 
Slight shift in the S2 premiere:

Showtime PR said:
NEW YORK, NY – February 6, 2015 – SHOWTIME will now premiere the sophomore season of the critically-acclaimed psychological thriller PENNY DREADFUL on Sunday, May 3rd at 10 p.m. ET/PT. PENNY DREADFUL returns with ten episodes and will find Vanessa Ives (Eva Green) and Ethan Chandler (Josh Hartnett) forming a deeper bond as the group, including Sir Malcolm (Timothy Dalton), Dr. Frankenstein (Harry Treadaway), and Sembene (Danny Sapani), unite to banish the evil forces that threaten to destroy them. Meanwhile, Dorian Gray (Reeve Carney), the Creature (Rory Kinnear) and Brona (Billie Piper) are all waging battles of their own. Patti LuPone will guest star as a mysterious character of great importance in Vanessa’s past. Helen McCrory returns as Evelyn Poole (a.k.a. Madame Kali), the seductive spiritualist who will pose a unique threat to our protagonists this season, along with Simon Russell Beale, who is back as eccentric Egyptologist Ferdinand Lyle. Additional guest stars include Douglas Hodge as a Scotland Yard investigator; Sarah Greene as Poole’s powerful daughter, Hecate; and Jonny Beauchamp as a man with a singular past.
One week later than previously announced.
 
Finished the first season earlier this week, very excited for Season 2 now. Vanessa was a very well done character. This show just has such an unapologetic darkness to it.

I have very little sympathy for Caliban. I did, when he was telling his backstory, I thought we would find out that something tragic happened to the theater company...and then he skips back to helping them with productions. I mean, yeah you got abandoned, but as a viewer I feel like we see him get treated kindly as often as we do see him mistreated.

Then again I suppose we should look at him more as a well developed child and not a human that has had time to come to terms with who they are.
 
- A few new posters over on HitFix:

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started watching season one but gave up after about episode 6. Does it get any better?

The monologues were boring and I didn't find the Frankenstein story that entertaining.

Eva Green is nice, but I didn't like her character much.
 
yeah, thought as much.

I had some high hopes given the cast and writers.

Although, it doesn't necessarily mean season 2 is not for you. You have to remember the first season was very much the introduction of the characters. There was a lot backstory covered that probably won't be explored again.

That said, Ethan's story wasn't really touched upon at all, so...
 
who's the guy under Hartnett in the poster? Dorian? I do not recognize him


also, yass. Hopefully season two improves on the team aspect of the show, which I found rather lacking. i just want my LXG dammit
 
I've finally watched the whole first season and damn...I should have watched it sooner. Loved it. Amazing atmosphere, direction and acting. I wish the plot would be heavier, but I guess that's what S2 is for.

I always wondered how a supernatural show would look like it, if it got big budget and great actors. Now I know.

Also, the fact that Eva Green didn't get even a damn nomination for Emmys is yet another sad proof how worthless those awards have become
 
I really hope they do a better job with the action scenes, they were an embarassement in season 1. I also didn't care for how disposable the monsters.
 
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