P5s slinks in general have the same problem as P4s in that none of the character growth that happens in them ever gets reflected in the main story.
P3s slinks avoid this problem mostly by making the slinks not happen with half your party and even the ones that do are very one note with the characters overcoming one thing.
Except for Aigis' whose story arc carries in well into the finale/ FES but i feel like that's a consequence of FES basically being all about Aigis lol.
P5s slinks in general have the same problem as P4s in that none of the character growth that happens in them ever gets reflected in the main story.
P3s slinks avoid this problem mostly by making the slinks not happen with half your party and even the ones that do are very one note with the characters overcoming one thing.
Except for Aigis' whose story arc carries in well into the finale/ FES but i feel like that's a consequence of FES basically being all about Aigis lol.
P4 Golden finished. Now to go back and Platinum P5 right quick then Plat P4G since that requires another full play.
I also started P3P Girl Side and beat first full moon boss. I'm just on a persona kick. I want to go back and play the first three games. Their outdated elements and different gameplay kind of worries me though. On the other hand, I've been listening to School Days from Persona non stop lately so at least I know the music will be great.
Also random but flying through P4G reminded me that it took me years to beat P4 on PS2. Kept making progress then dropping it for months. Not sure why since I loved it. I think it was a lull in my gaming interest and time, plus I recall just sucking at the game and it feeling really hard to me. Which wasn't the case with Golden, it was really easy actually (they definitely made various improvements which made it easy.
I really hope P6 won't take another decade and any Persona 5 re-release I'm there immediately.
It's probably been mentioned before, but I think that P5 struggles with having characters seem consistent between main story scenes and confidant ones. Some are fine (like Yusuke, Haru, and Futaba) while others (Ryuji and Ann) seem just different enough to cause a bit of a disconnect. Ignoring the quality of the character stories themselves, I don't remember this being an issue with P3 or P4.
That's the problem with social links in general. They're supposed to offer closure and special character development. But the writing can't go too far or in depth because a character can get more character growth in a social link than in the actual main game.
That's Ryuji's situation. His social link is great so far. He's considerate of people's feelings, finds friendship with Joker, and is maturing.
Yet the main game has him flipping out very rash at times (like in my example with Morgana).
It's even weird when Ryuji literally blurts that they are the Phantom Thieves in public sometimes. I'm like... "Social link Ryuji is smarter than this..."
And then there's Mishima. Don't get me started on him. I've defended him for so long but the way he behaves is beginning to annoy even me.
That's the problem with social links in general. They're supposed to offer closure and special character development. But the writing can't go too far or in depth because a character can get more character growth in a social link than in the actual main game.
That's Ryuji's situation. His social link is great so far. He's considerate of people's feelings, finds friendship with Joker, and is maturing.
Yet the main game has him flipping out very rash at times (like in my example with Morgana).
It's even weird when Ryuji literally blurts that they are the Phantom Thieves in public sometimes. I'm like... "Social link Ryuji is smarter than this..."
And then there's Mishima. Don't get me started on him. I've defended him for so long but the way he behaves is beginning to annoy even me.
I don't think Confidant Ryuji and main story Ryuji are all that different, actually. The Confidant storylines aren't supposed to act as closure for the characters like in P4. They're more like companion pieces for a specific character. Ryuji's Confidant has him working out his past and avoiding the same mistakes that cost him his future. None of that means he's fully matured as a person. He can still get angry (which is an aspect for him), and he can still let things go to his head (which literally happens). He even admits that he's barely changed in the main story, and it's very much a work in progress. It's a good thing because people don't change overnight.
I don't think Confidant Ryuji and main story Ryuji are all that different, actually. The Confidant storylines aren't supposed to act as closure for the characters like in P4. They're more like companion pieces for a specific character. Ryuji's Confidant has him working out his past and avoiding the same mistakes that cost him his future. None of that means he's fully matured as a person. He can still get angry (which is an aspect for him), and he can still let things go to his head (which literally happens). He even admits that he's barely changed in the main story, and it's very much a work in progress. It's a good thing because people don't change overnight.
Yeah, I really liked that the confidants where more companion pieces than a way to finish off someone's character development. So it wasn't the growth of characters I thought was kinda strange, but rather how different they seemed at the start of their links. For some specific examples, I thought Ryuji
was going to fly off the handle at the start of his confidant and then learn to calm down, but even in the early ranks he seemed uncharacteristically calm.
As for Ann,
she seems pretty clever in the main story, but stupider than a sack of particularly stupid bricks in her confidant.
I might change my opinion on all of this when I go back through the game though.
(Also, loved that Ryuji moment from your screenshots. He was consistently one of the most interesting of the Phantom Thieves.)
I don't think Confidant Ryuji and main story Ryuji are all that different, actually. The Confidant storylines aren't supposed to act as closure for the characters like in P4. They're more like companion pieces for a specific character. Ryuji's Confidant has him working out his past and avoiding the same mistakes that cost him his future. None of that means he's fully matured as a person. He can still get angry (which is an aspect for him), and he can still let things go to his head (which literally happens). He even admits that he's barely changed in the main story, and it's very much a work in progress. It's a good thing because people don't change overnight.
that confidant has him barely doing anything outside of getting grilled for what happened between him and Kamoshida and exposing the plan of another Shitty Adult™.
Not exactly territory for him to grow as a person.
I really feel like the best solution to this issue is to do what P3 did (and gets grilled heavily for having done) where they don't introduce the party member slinks until late enough into the game that they've been developed properly as characters, and then have the slink focus on just one aspect of their lives that can be a bit more narrow so it doesn't mess with the internal story characterization.
The largest downside here is that not having access to a party member social link feels awkward, especially since you know, you rely on those slinks to make your persona stock stronger lol. But it would certainly make it the best way to keep a consistency in characterization.
P4 had a lot of issues with this lol, P5 has them for certain characters but less so, but that's because they made the confidants less heavy than the slinks in P4. The P4 party slinks really hit you hard with a deep struggle and that the characters needed to overcome it to reach their own truth, which made for some of the most amazingly memorable moments in the series...as well as some of the largest inconsistencies in characterization lol. P5 keeps things a bit more chill in the party confidants, which I personally think makes them a bit weaker but overall less intrusive (for the most part) so that whenever the characterization in the main story overrides that one rank up scene we just saw 5 minutes ago.it doesn't seem as jarring.
Another route (that I haven't thought through at all) would be to make all party member s. links like Makoto's, where it's less about her and more about some problem related to her. You could start the link earlier then, in a way that wouldn't necessarily handicap their ability to grow through the main story a la P3. So serious soul searching in the main story, and mostly fun interactions in the s link.
(Palace 5 and onward spoilers)
Persona 5 Development Staff Member #1: Ok so
Haru joins really late in the game, how can we get people to use her
?
Persona 5 Development Staff Member #2:
Give her a bunch of good skills.
Persona 5 Development Staff Member #1:
So like... Makarakarn and Tetrakarn?
Persona 5 Development Staff Member #2:
And Amrita Shower. And both Gun Boost and Gun Amp. And give her exclusive use of Gun skills.
Also I finally beat this game. I agree with the complaints that a lot of bosses/enemies just feel like giant damage sponges after a while, the only section in the back half of the game where the enemies didn't feel like they were just there to waste my Real Life Time was in
The Depths of Mementos
, but in retrospect that may have been because
I got the Tower skill that boosts the gun ambush skill and so it was knocking off like half the enemy's health
.
On a story perspective, I feel like
having so many of your Slinks be party members or special characters made a lot of the "Your max rank slink people cheer you on" sequences feel kinda lame.
Alright, I finally got my copy and finished the first palace. My first impressions ("spoilers" for the first arc of the game):
-Game is stylish as fuck(bet you never heard that one before!) and has a really strong visual identity but also looks surprisingly rough in a few spots when you're exploring the city. The laundry place looks like something straight outta P3/P4, for example.
-I found the opening act much stronger than P3 and P4 from a narrative and gameplay perspective. Kamoshida's arc was great and I'm really excited to see where the story goes from here (I just "stole his heart" and am waiting for the remaining days to go by). I think the final heist on Kamoshida's palace with Life Will Change playing was the moment when the game totally sold me on the whole Phantom Thief shtick. The dungeon was great and scratched that SMT itch like none of the recent SMT entries have done, funnily enough. I had no issues with the pacing other than wanting the game to let me fight/fuse/dungeon crawl a bit sooner, though I understand why they felt the need to slowly ease in newcomers. Hard difficulty has been ideal so far, really hoping the rest of the game keeps up this level of challenge. I also didn't mind the Palace's lenght at all, but I'm a sucker for dungeon crawling so I really can't see that bothering me on the long run unless one of the dungeons is just terribly designed (looking forward to seeing what's all the fuss about
Dungeon 5
) or it becomes too easy/routine like the latter P4 dungeons and Tartarus Floors did.
- I love the new "social link up" theme. It sounds like I just unlocked Darth Vader, the ultimate persona of the Emperor arcana. I'm still disappointed Aria of the Soul didn't get a remix, though. It's about time, isn't it? Also, I miss vocal tracks for daily exploration more than I thought I would. The ost is really good, but it's missing that "endearing"/cozy/comfy element in day-to-day stuff that made P4's and P3's feel so nostalgic. I'm still early though so that could change.
Not posting on the OT cause the discussion is kinda mid-end game focused right now and I've already read more than I should. I'm just excited to be playing a new Persona game so most of my complaints sound more like nitpicks right now. Been a long time since I felt so invested in a game, probably not since the first Dark Souls. I really hope the franchise doesn't lose its luster with Hashino gone...
I don't think Confidant Ryuji and main story Ryuji are all that different, actually. The Confidant storylines aren't supposed to act as closure for the characters like in P4. They're more like companion pieces for a specific character. Ryuji's Confidant has him working out his past and avoiding the same mistakes that cost him his future. None of that means he's fully matured as a person. He can still get angry (which is an aspect for him), and he can still let things go to his head (which literally happens). He even admits that he's barely changed in the main story, and it's very much a work in progress. It's a good thing because people don't change overnight.
I just think Confidant Ryuji is far more considerate of people's feelings (example the track team moments) and respects Joker (another good moment). Its hard for me to imagine him treating Morgana so bad in that arc I mentioned earlier.
I like how some of you guys would rather have a Makoto/Yukari/Mitsuru social link style than Ryuji or Ann's. I think Yusuke is another example of a good social link that doesn't clash with character growth.
But even still... I'm far more disappointed that Joker doesn't speak at very crucial moments. Really bizarre how you can pay a voice actor to only say a few lines in battle and very few scenes BUT NOT optional dialogue choices.
I just think Confidant Ryuji is far more considerate of people's feelings (example the track team moments) and respects Joker (another good moment). Its hard for me to imagine him treating Morgana so bad in that arc I mentioned earlier.
The fact that Morgana goes out of his way to belittle Ryuji (a guy already harboring intense anger issues, need I remind you) and constantly acts like a petulant and/or pretentious child continues to elude you, I see...
See, that's the thing. I always thought Morgana and Ryuji did that insult exchange because it was their thing as friends. Ryuji called Morgana a thing and Morgana would flip out. Thats what triggered it from the beginning.
Its almost bad comedy from a television sitcom. "You insult me when I mess up and I'll insult you when you mess up" etc.
The fact that Morgana goes out of his way to belittle Ryuji (a guy already harboring intense anger issues, need I remind you) and constantly acts like a petulant and/or pretentious child continues to elude you, I see...
See, that's the thing. I always thought Morgana and Ryuji did that insult exchange because it was their thing as friends. Ryuji called Morgana a thing and Morgana would flip out. Thats what triggered it from the beginning.
Its almost bad comedy from a television sitcom. "You insult me when I mess up and I'll insult you when you mess up" etc.
Yeah, you can check out their official website here (JP only)
But it's only in Japan now. I was wondering if anyone here are planning to go there to see it because none of my friends really like Persona and I kinda don't want to go there alone lol.
Yeah, you can check out their official website here (JP only)
But it's only in Japan now. I was wondering if anyone here are planning to go there to see it because none of my friends really like Persona and I kinda don't want to go there alone lol.
I'm tempted to go... not only to hear the music but to see the reaction of Japanese Persona fans to see that Persona DOES have a Western fanbase. Lmao I just imagine a spotlight appearing over the few Western fans in the crowd and screaming that the impossible has happened.
The ending wasn't really anywhere close to as affecting as P3 and P4 were, but it's still a good ending for the story they were telling. It's hard to beat "holy shit did I just die?" and saying goodbye to a group of good friends on a train, but driving free on the open road with nothing holding you down is a good cap to the tale.
The transition to the requisite evil god felt even more disjointed than Izanami did in P4, but the actual final fight with Yaldabaoth was a top tier encounter for Persona fight design. And Satanael blowing a hole through his face was immensely satisfying. The moment earlier in the Velvet Room were real Igor returns was also great, though from what I understand they were just reusing his voice clips from P3 and 4 in the Japanese version, weren't they? So what the heck do they plan on doing in the future? Ah, whatever.
I really enjoyed the main cast though I have some niggling issues with a few of them:
--Ann has a great, great start, but after Madarame's dungeon she basically falls off of a cliff and just disappears into obscurity, only being the focal point of attention in anime scenes designed to ogle her. I don't think any other Persona main character I've seen thus far has such a wide disparity.
--Haru is greatly underutilized. She joins about as late as Naoto does, but for better or worse Naoto basically controlled every major discussion after she joined, and she was a prominent character before joining as well. Haru does neither, so she just kind of feels "there" for most of the scenes she's in. It doesn't help that by the time she's a true, proper member of the group the story shifts into extremely serious mode.
--Akechi was incredibly disappointing. Tons and tons of build up and he basically amounts to a dumb boss fight at the end of Shido's dungeon and then is promptly forgotten about. His motivation was incredibly weak, his descent into madness has no payoff, and his revelation about his actual powers involving psychotic breakdowns was essentially meaningless. He's the one character I'd classify as just plain bad.
--Is it just me or did the party let off Sae too easily? She does end up having a change of heart on her own but they just seem to forget that her Palace implicated she was involved in some pretty heinous stuff. Oh well.
Random thought--I was totally hoping that Sae would end up being an eleventh hour party member after her palace was complete. How badass would that have been? Would have been nice to have a replacement for Akechi and the two elements he took with him. It'd be tricky from a story perspective but if I were in charge of an updated rerelease that's an avenue I'd explore.
Other random thought--I think it's hilarious and sad how the party never, ever invites Mishima to any of their gatherings despite him being a super integral part of their actions in the world. That poor bastard. Still one of my favorite characters in the game. Such a lovable loser.
I remember a lot of discussions prior to the game's full reveal on whether or not they would have portraits in conversations and I'm so, so glad I was right. The art in this game is gorgeous, and the portraits add a huge amount to the presentation.
Concerning confidants, I don't think any of the stories affected me as much as the best of P3 and P4's S.Links but on the other hand I don't think any of them were anywhere near as bad as the worst of P3 and P4's S.Links. The addition of helpful abilities on all of them was a huge change for the better. I remember a discussion I had here previously that they could do more to make the non-party member S.Links a higher priority, and the solution they came up with was perfect and way better than anything I could come up with.
Though the romance angles still need more work. Outside of there being more romanceable characters the actual dating aspect actually feels diminished from Golden.
Soundtrack wise I think I agree with the general assessment that it's good but the placement of the tracks leaves something to be desired. But I think the boss fight tracks in the game are at the absolute top of the ranking in between P3, P4, and P5. The normal Palace boss fight theme (I think it's called "Blooming Villain?") is a really underrated track I think.
Yeah I agree with almost every single one of your points. I think the best way I can sum up P5 is that it's consistent. It never quite manage to reach the same highs as P3 and P4 but it definitely never hits their lows either. The "lowest" point of P5 would probably have to be
everything leading up to and including palace 5. Summer in these games always ends up feeling like a mess of pacing but even P5 managed to have enough going on during it, however the build up to palace 5 felt very forced and then we got hit with palace 5 on top of that which was probably the worst palace lol.
Yeah I agree with almost every single one of your points. I think the best way I can sum up P5 is that it's consistent. It never quite manage to reach the same highs as P3 and P4 but it definitely never hits their lows either. The "lowest" point of P5 would probably have to be
everything leading up to and including palace 5. Summer in these games always ends up feeling like a mess of pacing and the build up to palace 5 felt very forced and then we got hit with palace 5 on top of that which was probably the worst palace lol.
I think it's crazier looking back on P3,4, and 5 and realizing how each one has its strengths and weaknesses, but they're all completely unforgettable rides.
That said, I feel pretty content with the series as is for now. Going into P5 I wasn't that interested in Re:Fantasy, but coming out it's become one of my most anticipated titles, just to see what Hashino's team can cook up.
I'm still very early in the game, but I'm not sure I agree with that unspoiled assessment.
It could be true from an emotional and narrative perspective, SLinks, characters and all that stuff (I can't tell since I'm obviously lacking the full picture here which makes it hard to properly engage in these discussions), but I can't remember having as much fun in P3 and 4 as I had infiltrating the first palace, or anything as exciting as
confronting Kamoshida in the real world, going to the palace and opening all the locked chest while Life Will Change plays in the background and then finally tackling the boss
. I know gameplay highs aren't important to a lot of people when talking about Persona, but now that the series actually has those moments it definitely counts for me.
Also, how much this actually turns out to be a positive, neutral or negative aspect remains to be seen since I've only tackled the very first villain and many consider him the strongest of the bunch, but it felt much more satisfying to take him down than it ever did confronting any of the party members shadows in P4 or the random shadows in P3. The latter lacked proper context and emotional impact, and the former, while interesting from a character analysis perspective, never really made me feel anything towards them as enemies.
Without spoiling anything - for me it's mostly about the emotional moments and the fact that I didn't find myself attached to the main cast of P5 or the side characters as much as I did in P3 and P4.
The gameplay aspects of P5 are for the most part ridiculously good however if we are going to talk about encounter design I don't think anything will top The Answer in P3 for me. There is a lot of unique strategic depth in those fights that made them legitimately challenging. P5s core difficulty curve ends up flattening out towards the second half, especially if you're familiar with SMT. So while there are a lot of QoL changes and a lot of really amazing combat changes, the main area of gameplay P5 excels is the actual dungeons being some of the best in all of megaten.
Though I will agree, every time life will change plays as you're going in for the treasure I can safely say it's probably impossible to wipe that grin off my face lmao.
The gameplay aspects of P5 are for the most part ridiculously good however if we are going to talk about encounter design I don't think anything will top The Answer in P3 for me. There is a lot of unique strategic depth in those fights that made them legitimately challenging. P5s core difficulty curve ends up flattening out towards the second half, especially if you're familiar with SMT. So while there are a lot of QoL changes and a lot of really amazing combat changes, the main area of gameplay P5 excels is the actual dungeons being some of the best in all of megaten.
I can't speak about The Answer as I never actually played it, but there were a few high level "random" encounters in the first dungeon that I thought were pretty good since they actually forced me to take advantage of Dormina and baton passes for turn suppression as otherwise they could wipe out party members really quickly. Going for the end of the dungeon with low resources and needing to take full advantage of the negotiation system to avoid tough enemy encounters actually became a thing and it's an interesting dynamic that isn't present in the previous two games. Any single enemy encounter may not be particularly impressive by itself, but it's the synergy between dungeon crawling, resource management and difficulty that keeps them engaging, so if The Answer can top all that color me excited to try it out.
As for the difficulty flattening, that's kind of an issue with SMT in general, with a few outliers like Apocalypse's final boss. I'll try to lessen the effect somewhat by passing on things like SP adhesives and such but yeah, I know what you mean.
I'm still very early in the game, but I'm not sure I agree with that unspoiled assessment.
It could be true from an emotional and narrative perspective, SLinks, characters and all that stuff (I can't tell since I'm obviously lacking the full picture here which makes it hard to properly engage in these discussions), but I can't remember having as much fun in P3 and 4 as I had infiltrating the first palace, or anything as exciting as
confronting Kamoshida in the real world, going to the palace and opening all the locked chest while Life Will Change plays in the background and then finally tackling the boss
. I know gameplay highs aren't important to a lot of people when talking about Persona, but now that the series actually has those moments it definitely counts for me.
Also, how much this actually turns out to be a positive, neutral or negative aspect remains to be seen since I've only tackled the very first villain and many consider him the strongest of the bunch, but it felt much more satisfying to take him down than it ever did confronting any of the party members shadows in P4 or the random shadows in P3. The latter lacked proper context and emotional impact, and the former, while interesting from a character analysis perspective, never really made me feel anything towards them as enemies.
Add me to the just beat Persona 5 crowd. I clocked in at 159 hours, 42 minutes at the end.
Overall, of the Persona games I've played, P5 is by far the best gameplay wise. It was an excellent evolution of the formula began in P3 while bringing back some elements from the original installments (I definitely prefer hold-ups to shuffle time when it comes to acquiring Personae). The Confidants - especially those outside of the main party members - rank among the series' best; it was a great decision to tie in many of the gameplay perks to them, as it made the incentive to complete as many as you can in a single playthrough high. I actually maxed out all of them but two! And those two (Iwai and Shinya) were at rank 9 lol. I was so close! And, I don't think I need to say any more about dungeons than has been said elsewhere.
Narrative wise, I think I can safely say this was my favourite entry in the series, too. What I like the most is how P5 was very consistent in its theme, tone, and messaging. All of the Confidants, for example, are people who are in some form or another, outcasts ostracized by society.
And I love that they all figure out your identity when you complete them; it really built a sense of camaraderie as outsiders.
. This really was a contemporary urban fantasy; many of the story's arcs are incredibly relevant to the times we live in. The Phantom Thieves' thoughts on events towards the end of the story were ones I've had myself about the real world.
Speaking of the Phantom Thieves, what a great cast of motley misfits they were. I was immediately enamored with the original members (Ryuji, Morgana, and Ann), but others whom I thought wouldn't grab my attention at first managed to win me over.
I'm looking at you, Haru. She's irrefutably the sweetest character of the Phantom Thieves. And, boy, did going down the just friends route with her Confidant pain me
. And several of them had great character development so that by the time I was on the final day, I had that familiar nostalgic melancholy when it came time to say goodbye. While I probably still consider the Investigation Team from P4 to be more endearing, P5's Phantom Thieves made an excellent addition to the roster of Persona characters.
Or course, P5 isn't a perfect game: I wish the Phantom Thieves had more chances to be just kids and not worry about yet another shitty adult threatening their way of life, and some characters' Confidants aren't as up to par as others
*coughMakotocough*
, and I'm not even gonna acknowledge a certain pair of NPCs in Shinjuku. But these were mostly minor faults in an excellent game.
To wrap it up: It was great to finally play a new mainline Persona game after over eight years. With Hashino now devoting himself to a new IP, I'm hesitantly curious about what P6 will turn out to be, but if Atlus are determined to create something that can meet or exceed the new standard P5 has set, then I shouldn't have much to worry about.
I'm definitely going to be doing New Game+. Gotta max out those last two Confidants, get the remaining 23% of the Compendium filled out, and complete the remaining trophies (I'm sitting at 61%)!
Early P5 is something else. It's a bit on rails and takes a while to ramp up, but it's really easily the most compelling intro of all three games, at least in my opinion. Kamoshida's plotline is just really frustrating in the right ways.
Later dungeons just can't re-capture that feel, but they're still good.
Sorry if this has been posted in this thread already, but a youtube channel called Fither did an interview with Xanthe Huynh (voice of Haru) and two things caught my attention:
Xanthe wasn't called back to re-record anything--or to record anything new--after she wrapped. So I'm guessing any voice recording that might have happened after the November delay didn't involve the main cast.
She mentions that she did her lines from about April to August. So while I think it was obvious before, I think we can safely say that P5 did not start getting localized in June of last year.
the entire kamoshida story is probably the strongest writing in a persona game period. it's a bummer they couldn't keep that up for the rest of the game (and, in some cases, actively work against it).
Sorry if this has been posted in this thread already, but a youtube channel called Fither did an interview with Xanthe Huynh (voice of Haru) and two things caught my attention:
Xanthe wasn't called back to re-record anything--or to record anything new--after she wrapped. So I'm guessing any voice recording that might have happened after the November delay didn't involve the main cast.
She mentions that she did her lines from about April to August. So while I think it was obvious before, I think we can safely say that P5 did not start getting localized in June of last year.
I'm a man of two minds on the Kamoshida arc. (General game spoilers I guess?)
On the one hand, it was by far the most personal of the arcs--for some of your squad mates anyway--and it was the only arc that let you see firsthand how distorted desires affected actual people. On the other hand, an entire game of that sounds... kinda boring I guess? In a game that already has problems with repetitive story beats, I'm not sure I want to see a ton of scenes showing how bad bad people can be. I appreciated the attempt to vary things up with later Palaces focusing on different narrative aspects like fighting an anonymous threat, or working the justice system to restore your good name.
Honestly, having finished the game I can't even say Kamoshida's was my favourite arc. It was probably the one I was most done with by the end, though I'd chalk at least part of that up to how many trips you have to take to the Palace for tutorials and the like.
I think the explanation for the delay kinda backfired on Atlus a bit. Even with the small amount they'd shown of P5's dub by November, people had already picked out some things they took issue with. So when a delay was announced, I think the perception was that Atlus would have the time (and motivation) to address those concerns. Realistically, a six week delay doesn't give you enough room to make a lot of changes, especially when you consider doing very time consuming things like re-recording a good portion of dialogue. I think the delay was purely to prevent any oddities like the untranslated text in SMTIV:A, which while important, isn't what people thought they were doing.
So uh, this is a weird question but, we know that the Megami Tensei part of SMT means Resurrection of the Goddess basically. But what exactly was the resurrection of the goddess in P5? I guess P5 doesn't have SMT anywhere on its box cover.
In P1 it was I guess Pandora or Night Queen depending on route?
(still need to actually play P2)
In P3 it was Nyx
in P4 is was Izanami
In P5 it was uhhh?
I half way feel like the reason for this might be that they might be saving this for the P5 bonus edition. Alternatively it could be that I am overlooking something lol. It could be why they didn't ship the game with SMT in the title (though from what I understand persona in japan has never shipped with SMT, kinda how P1 didn't get SMT in its title until the PSP remake) So who knows? Finally I guess they could have been like "nah we don't need to do this"
Sorry if this has been posted in this thread already, but a youtube channel called Fither did an interview with Xanthe Huynh (voice of Haru) and two things caught my attention:
Xanthe wasn't called back to re-record anything--or to record anything new--after she wrapped. So I'm guessing any voice recording that might have happened after the November delay didn't involve the main cast.
She mentions that she did her lines from about April to August. So while I think it was obvious before, I think we can safely say that P5 did not start getting localized in June of last year.
1) That interview was great, Xanthe's the best
2) It's hard to take their word at face value anymore. There's only one instance of a newly recorded line that I know of MAJOR P5 SPOILERS
Real Igor's ENG voice
and it was terrible anyway, since they couldn't get the original VA.
So uh, this is a weird question but, we know that the Megami Tensei part of SMT means Resurrection of the Goddess basically. But what exactly was the resurrection of the goddess in P5? I guess P5 doesn't have SMT anywhere on its box cover.
In P1 it was I guess Pandora or Night Queen depending on route?
(still need to actually play P2)
In P3 it was Nyx
in P4 is was Izanami
In P5 it was uhhh?
I half way feel like the reason for this might be that they might be saving this for the P5 bonus edition. Alternatively it could be that I am overlooking something lol. It could be why they didn't ship the game with SMT in the title (though from what I understand persona in japan has never shipped with SMT, kinda how P1 didn't get SMT in its title until the PSP remake) So who knows? Finally I guess they could have been like "nah we don't need to do this"
Persona is not SMT, full-stop. None of the games in Japan were labeled SMT, including the PSP remake of 1. Atlus USA independently decided to use that branding on P3 and P4 in the west to try and tie them together with the other PS2 SMT games for Brand Synergy reasons. P5 finally dropped it (as did P4G, in fact, which is arguably (P4G spoilers)
even more about a reborn goddess than the original P4 was
) because the Persona brand is bigger than SMT in the west now and doesn't need it.
Also, not all of the SMT games are about reborn goddesses either.
Persona is Megami Ibunroku or something (and even that has been dropped, I think) so any connection to SMT is tenuous at best. I doubt they actively thought of those plot points as something significant to the parent franchise's title lol
Even SMT is kinda inconsistent about it.
I finally did a Strengthen Persona in the Velvet Room tonight. Uhh...having to save scum over and over in order to get the additional skill you want is even worse than Nocturne and P3's fusion UI. What sick mind decided that was a good idea after the great fusion QoL improvements in P5?
Wow, P5's OT2 has already surpassed FF XV's. Just thought that was interesting to point out, but then again FF did have a ginormous spoiler thread while P5's is considerably smaller so I think it evens out in the end. Still not a bad result for the niche series, though. Specially considering how we have a dedicated "waifu" thread splitting things up. lol
Persona is Megami Ibunroku or something (and even that has been dropped, I think) so any connection to SMT is tenuous at best. I doubt they actively thought of those plot points as something significant to the parent franchise's title lol
Even SMT is kinda inconsistent about it.
I guess Megami Ibunroku it's a kind of moniker to new spin-offs. Just the first entry of both Persona and Devil Survivor have that moniker and the following titles dropped it, and the series are not related
unless we count the Featherman reference in DS2... and the shadow selves.
Xanthe wasn't called back to re-record anything--or to record anything new--after she wrapped. So I'm guessing any voice recording that might have happened after the November delay didn't involve the main cast.
Not necessarily. During the last S.Link that had John on it, he said that they were doing pick-ups. There's basically two reasons why you'd do that for a game that was already finished on the Japan side and that had its recording wrap-up once:
You missed some lines during the main recording period
Some of them weren't what the client was looking for (bad acting, they weren't satisfied with how some lines were performed)
That could apply to any character or extra, so it's hard to know which ones they were for. Haru comes into the story late, so with fewer lines, there's fewer chances for issues to pop up.
Even then, we don't know when those lines were recorded. (More end-game spoilers)
Yeah, they didn't get Worren back, but they might've always had that accounted for in the original schedule. We just don't know. We don't know if they would've held out to try and get him had they known production was going to get delayed again, or if they never tried, when they already had Kirk Thornton booked for the SIU Director.
I'd adjust your spoiler tags, though, since they imply that a game with largely minimal ties to the older games suddenly gets a character from them near the end.
Not necessarily. During the last S.Link that had John on it, he said that they were doing pick-ups. There's basically two reasons why you'd do that for a game that was already finished on the Japan side and that had its recording wrap-up once:
You missed some lines during the main recording period
Some of them weren't what the client was looking for (bad acting, they weren't satisfied with how some lines were performed)
That could apply to any character or extra, so it's hard to know which ones they were for. Haru comes into the story late, so with fewer lines, there's fewer chances for issues to pop up.
That's a good point, it was a bit of a jump on my part to come to that conclusion. I completely understand why they don't share most of the nuts and bolts of localizing a game--I think it's the right call even--but I'm so curious in the process that I wish most major localized games would do postmortems about what worked, what didn't, and what challenges there were.
Speaking of development stuff, there's an interview in Edge with Hashino this month on the development of the game. Not really much that hasn't been said in Japanese interviews, but for some points from it:
The main reason for the delays was PS4 development, all the 2D assets needed to be redrawn to be suitable for the system.
Initially it was planned for the game to be set in a fictional city, and to distinguish it from the mountainous Inaba, coastal cities were looked at for inspiration. He went with Tokyo in the end because Phantom Thieves are often associated with capitals, such as Lupin and Paris, they need a setting overflowing with people where an outlaw can make an impact.
Unlike in previous games, the main characters weren't designed to stand out amongst their peers, whilst they might have distinctive characteristics within the school outside of that setting, they're just another insignificant part of the big city.
During early development, a freeform real time combat system was considered. Combat is supposed to be the culmination of all your pre battle considerations however, and direct control changed the focus to be exclusively on the battles instead of relying on the preparation and planning. They would have had to rethink the entire game to make the combat action oriented.
At one point they overdid the UI, making it incoherent and impossible to follow. They had to form a UI test team to fix it up.
There wasn't the intention to overlap with SMT, which often uses the real Tokyo. As Persona is based on coming of age high school life, a fictional city can convey the universality of the high school experience. (I don't really get this answer, since they did go with Tokyo, although I guess several of the actual locations are fictional, and he's probably just talking about some of the thought process behind picking a setting).
Hashino's planning took longer than expected when it came to locking down the setting.
That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. It's kind of a shame, but whenever I hear about the development of P5 now my first thought is, "Oh! I wonder if that means anything for Re:Fantasy!" I think I like the Atlus hype cycle too much, haha.
That's really interesting, thanks for sharing. It's kind of a shame, but whenever I hear about the development of P5 now my first thought is, "Oh! I wonder if that means anything for Re:Fantasy!" I think I like the Atlus hype cycle too much, haha.
