IHaveCandy
Banned
Persona 3 also didn't have Yosuke or anybody else that was homophobic. So that kinda helps Persona 3's group.
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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
- Thread starter Dantis
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I could pick apart your other selections on being wrong, but this one in particular pretty much says it all. Shinjiro might as well have not even EXISTED until the event.
Nevermind the fact that Mitsuru has no character and you chose the personality-less Aigis over Ted.
Yeah, it's almost as if Yosuke was an actual character with flaws that were realistic to what he was based on or something.
TurnipFritters
Member
persona 3 portable had a pedophile and a robosexual
I could really go for a main party that actively hates one another
I'm telling you. Police Squad.
Sophia is gonna have your head
I liked Teddie a lot less once he got his human form.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Shinjiro won me over in one scene. Like I said, it was a close one. I think I went with Shinjiro because Kanji just let me take the girl he had his eyes on. I guess that was just my playthrough of it, but it knocked Kanji down a peg for me.
And Mitsuru had plenty of character. The fact that she is more proper doesn't mean she doesn't have any character. And Aigis' story is all about her actually gaining a personality.
Way to turn a criticism into a low blow.
The whole Kanji
Unfortunately, crazy fanboys/girls wrote and demanded so much god damn fanservice for the two that they ruined that in Golden.
Naoto thing wasn't because he had the hots specifically for Naoto. But because it was something that played off his insecurities. If Chie wore pants it would have been the exact same thing.
Unfortunately, crazy fanboys/girls wrote and demanded so much god damn fanservice for the two that they ruined that in Golden.
I disagree re Kanji, I think you're conflating cause and effect
I was really annoyed at her at the beginning, but by end game I was really feeling her story. And the Answer is just so much more interesting because of who Aigis is. It's a pity almost all her developments happens in the last two months of the game. It really is not well paced.
I was really annoyed at her at the beginning, but by end game I was really feeling her story. And the Answer is just so much more interesting because of who Aigis is. It's a pity almost all her developments happens in the last two months of the game. It really is not well paced.
I keep seeing that on tumblr and it creeps me the hell out.
That's a pretty petty reason to like Kanji less.
Oh god shipping wars.
Saber, huh?
IHaveCandy
Banned
It seemed fine to me. It makes the final parts of the game very interesting. They at least have the courtesy of not letting you spend time with her until she is ready. I think they tried to do that stuff with more characters since you have to max out characteristics to hang out with different girls.
TurnipFritters
Member
nothing good comes from tumblr
both p3 and p4 have really crummy pacing but maybe p5 will finally nail it
Always bet on Naoto and Yosuke because Yosuke seems like the type who would end up with the one girl he wasn't after.
False.
It's become weirdly predominant on sites like Pixiv (where I imagine it originated) as well. There's a certain point when you're browsing, like me, for good pieces of Rise art (there's surprisingly not a whole lot) and it stops being about Rise and starts being Naoto, too.
It can be cute, though.
P4 has pretty good pacing but that's largely because its storyline is relatively simple...
IHaveCandy
Banned
I really hope Persona 5 has more of a Persona 3 art style. I like the gothic vibe more than the bright and sunny anime. Playing Persona 3, I felt like bad things could really happen to my group. Playing Persona 4, I felt like "no matter how bad things get, it will get better. The art style is too sunny and cheery to stay depressing."
TurnipFritters
Member
no, p4's pacing is really awful and the investigation meetings where the characters sit around talking about all the clues they found (which, for 80% of the game boils down to "Not one damn thing") really highlight this.
they make basically no progress on solving the case until naoto joins the team (spoiler alert: a character on the box art joins the party), and even then it
awkwardly shoehorns the Izanami stuff at the end, which features all sorts of ridiculous, out of place things like the MAGICAL CRYSTAL OF REVEALING
uh persona 3's art is pastel-filled anime so???
That's exactly what I liked about P4, man. I could go anywhere for gothic depressingtimes in videogames
Only if you view pacing as 'race through plot points', sure.
Only if you view pacing as 'race through plot points', sure.
The Izanami stuff is shoehorned though, yeah
I don't think you know what pacing is
IHaveCandy
Banned
Persona 3 is a much darker art choice. It mostly sticks out in the animated cartoon parts.
TurnipFritters
Member
There is literally no progress in the story until two thirds of the way through the game. This is bad pacing.
buddha0991
Member
Itt: people have different likes and tastes
my post still applies
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well both 3 and 4 kind of having you go through a wild goose chase until you start making real progress. It isn't really even Naoto that leads you to making the real progress. Naoto just helps you confirm something.
That could be interesting. Or maybe place the party in a situation where they are forced to cooperate with each other if they want to survive while also having them doubt each other's motivations and actions ala Zero Escape. In the end, they would become true friends and finally learn to trust each other. Learning to trust others could be the game's message such as seeking the truth was P4's.
Seriously, Atlus in general has you covered on dark/depressing settings
It's called Digital Devil Saga.
TurnipFritters
Member
How would you define pacing then.
Yeah, but in P4's case you aren't getting any closer to the killer, you're just watching the exact same thing play out over and over and over (and not in a particularly interesting way "NO YOU'RE NOT ME!!!") and then you have to suffer through ten minute cutscenes where the characters sit around and rehash that they're not getting any closer to the killer and the whole thing is really poorly paced.
Shipping wars, whoever wins. We Lose.
Aye, it matches my strong leadership skills and legendary swordsmanship.
Aye, it matches my strong leadership skills and legendary swordsmanship.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well each victim is helping you narrow down who could be the killer. It's also how you form the team, which is fine to me. It allows the case to start small and grow to the size of saving the world.
Quality of the placement of events. Has no relevance to how quickly it can go through the main plot -- something can haven no progress in the main plot for the 3/4 of the work and still have great pacing.
In story heavy works, the most important component of pacing is tonal appropriateness in relation to time passed. You don't want to have a happy dinner a few hours (story-wise) after somebody close to the characters just got their brains blown out, for example. Game specific pacing also relates to the ludic elements like the strength of enemies and time between midbosses and bosses. Stuff like that.
it's a lot more complex than this and I'm trying to keep it short and I don't really like this explanation I did but yeah
IHaveCandy
Banned
A story has good pacing if the story keeps you engaged the entire time. And when the story is asking for your attention in a rather uninteresting way, the payoff for that attention given should be great.
P3 is just as "anime" as 4 and that art is going back since it's the same style. Soejima has simply become a better artist.
Your issue with Persona 4's tone, which the art lends itself too (because why wouldn't it?)
TurnipFritters
Member
So you would consider every single "No you're not me!!!" sequence high quality, correct? And all of the investigation meetings, where the sit around and talk about how they've learned exactly nothing, these are also great too. So are the "Run around and find out stuff about the victim so you can enter the dungeon" sequences, which at times can take multiple days.
P4 fails here too because you can fuck off and hang out with your bros instead of going to save a victim.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Well that is why I said Persona 4 is a "bright and sunny anime" and not simply "anime".
To his point then: It's complicated.
You're acting like P4 has categorically bad pacing and it's an easy call to make.
Yes, those are among the finest sequences in videogaming.
Uh, no. In this case the pacing would relate to the time left until the victim dies and how the tension would ramp up if you were say, underleveled and had to fuck off and grind with your bros.
And if you just like, waste the days because whatever -- then that's the ludic narrative you create yourself. Not the game's fault.
IHaveCandy
Banned
It is fun to tell Chei that we'll save Yukiko later because you've got a big bowl of beef waiting to be conquered.
TurnipFritters
Member
Oh, so you're just trolling.
The game was intentionally designed to make it possible so it really is the game's fault. The game makes it so you can, say, cut class to go shopping with Ai, but not cut class to save someone's life.
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