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[Meia]

Persona has pokemon elements to it's battles. This does NOT mean it translates well to player vs. player.


Want me to spell out how it would work then? Ok. Take the party members with few to no weaknesses, have party member take skills to amp up their damage to crazy levels(SEE: Vids on youtube of people beating the optional boss of p4 Vanilla in 5 minutes with Chie/Yosuke/Kanji), have the MC have a persona that has every wall spell on one persona to cover any weaknesses actually left, and then just stand in the middle of the ring and punch each other til one tips over(which will take a bit with whoever having the most party members with access to Mediarahn spells winning).


I have never heard once of someone coming up with a GOOD way of pvp working in Persona. It's just not that type of game. You cannot force that round peg into that square hole, no matter how much you push.

And hey, EP traditional interface has its charms. Among them wallpaper text bars!

If by "charm" you mean worse than P2:IS PSP's interface, then yes.

 

[Rikkun]

Yeah, you can be a jerk. It's not like p3, your side pieces don't get mad about each other.

Uuh, nice, thanks

You're at the final act of the game. Shit's about to get real.

And yes you can max out every social link, however it's difficult to do so in a first playthrough and not recommended.

Ok then I'll keep on being silly around the globe.
I'm kinda happy they made P4 way easier than P3, grinding was a chore (I got bored when I couldn't beat a damn Table boss, hate/love jRPGs)

Thanks!

 

[Sophia]

Ok then I'll keep on being silly around the globe.
I'm kinda happy they made P4 way easier than P3, grinding was a chore (I got bored when I couldn't beat a damn Table boss, hate/love jRPGs)

Thanks!

If you're grinding, you're doing it wrong. It's ALL about your Persona setup. If you have good Personae, you can win even five levels behind a boss.

 

[Taruranto]

Persona has pokemon elements to it's battles. This does NOT mean it translates well to player vs. player.

pokemon invented smt

 

[IHaveCandy]

Persona has pokemon elements to it's battles. This does NOT mean it translates well to player vs. player.


Want me to spell out how it would work then? Ok. Take the party members with few to no weaknesses, have party member take skills to amp up their damage to crazy levels(SEE: Vids on youtube of people beating the optional boss of p4 Vanilla in 5 minutes with Chie/Yosuke/Kanji), have the MC have a persona that has every wall spell on one persona to cover any weaknesses actually left, and then just stand in the middle of the ring and punch each other til one tips over(which will take a bit with whoever having the most party members with access to Mediarahn spells winning).


I have never heard once of someone coming up with a GOOD way of pvp working in Persona. It's just not that type of game. You cannot force that round peg into that square hole, no matter how much you push.

Then wouldn't somebody beat that strategy by focusing on physical attacks? Maybe in wrong here, but I never saw a spell that adds resistance specifically to physical attacks outside of just raising defense in general. If its still a problem then you just cut it down to 2v2 or 1v1. It's not like a 2v2 team can put half of its turns at buffing defense/health at all times while still outputting enough damage.

 

[buddha0991]

^In Persona 4 Golden, I made this:

I can't be touched, I win.

If you want SMT PvP, jump into Imagine. Have fun getting ganked by overleveled Shivas and Asuras.


And hey, EP traditional interface has its charms. Among them wallpaper text bars!

imagine has shit combat tho

 

[Sophia]

Then wouldn't somebody beat that strategy by focusing on physical attacks? Maybe in wrong here, but I never saw a spell that adds resistance specifically to physical attacks outside of just raising defense in general. If its still a problem then you just cut it down to 2v2 or 1v1. It's not like a 2v2 team can put half of its turns at buffing defense/health at all times while still outputting enough damage.

Physical attacks are inherently weaker in both P3 and P4. Not only do they cost HP, but you're unlikely to get a good string of critical hits.

There's a reason why most players drop Naoto's physical skills in P4G.

imagine has shit combat tho

Imagine is just shit. Except for it's original battle theme.

 

[Risette]

cave invented imagine

 

[IHaveCandy]

If you're grinding, you're doing it wrong. It's ALL about your Persona setup. If you have good Personae, you can win even five levels behind a boss.

I didnt have to grind anymore in Persona 3 once I realized I could just dump my skill cards all into one good Persona. I got Anubis at 99 in all skills before getting to the 5th area of Tartarus. At that point, I never needed my party anymore. Just let them died at all the boss fights.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Imagine is just shit. Except for it's original battle theme.

And Nakano. At least get to Nakano so you can take in the sights. It is a gorgeous area.

I think Shinjuku Babel is amazing too, though... and Arcadia, and Souhonzan, etc.

 

[Meia]

Then wouldn't somebody beat that strategy by focusing on physical attacks? Maybe in wrong here, but I never saw a spell that adds resistance specifically to physical attacks outside of just raising defense in general. If its still a problem then you just cut it down to 2v2 or 1v1. It's not like a 2v2 team can put half of its turns at buffing defense/health at all times while still outputting enough damage.

The type of damage I described with Chie/Yosuke/Kanji IS with using only physical attacks. Though then it becomes "Who has the highest crit rate with all physicals wins."


Hell, you'd probably have some people just spamming Die for Me! or Samsara and hope they get lucky against the MC dieing. Can just picture strats for how this would work:


Step 1 - Make sure you have personas immune to both Light/Dark at all times

Physical attacks are inherently weaker in both P3 and P4. Not only do they cost HP, but you're unlikely to get a good string of critical hits.

There's a reason why most players drop Naoto's physical skills in P4G.

Don't agree. 3 magic is king, 4 physical is king. Especially with Golden and 3 party members being able to have Power Charge + Severe physical hit(one of which being the MC with the strongest attack in the game with Yoshitsune).

 

[FluxWaveZ]

There's no doubt in my mind that a competitive multiplayer component to Persona would work if it was attempted and balanced appropriately. The question, however, is if it would be worth the development team's time as it's certainly not an insignificant effort to include something like it.

 

[Sophia]

Don't agree. 3 magic is king, 4 physical is king. Especially with Golden and 3 party members being able to have Power Charge + Severe physical hit(one of which being the MC with the strongest attack in the game with Yoshitsune).

Every physical attack in Persona 4 is inherently weaker than using a magical attack, unless the enemy resists all elements. The exceptions to this are Yoshitsune (who is completely broken, and probably intentionally), and Kanji.

Remember, most of the physical attacks are not Power Charged Primal Force/God's Hand.

Plus the optional boss has a specific weakness in it's AI that allowed the Chie/Kanji strategy to work. It wouldn't work against actual players, so it's not fair to mention the videos of it.

 

[IHaveCandy]

The type of damage I described with Chie/Yosuke/Kanji IS with using only physical attacks. Though then it becomes "Who has the highest crit rate with all physicals wins."


Hell, you'd probably have some people just spamming Die for Me! or Samsara and hope they get lucky against the MC dieing. Can just picture strats for how this would work:


Step 1 - Make sure you have personas immune to both Light/Dark at all times






Don't agree. 3 magic is king, 4 physical is king. Especially with Golden and 3 party members being able to have Power Charge + Severe physical hit(one of which being the MC with the strongest attack in the game with Yoshitsune).

I do agree that in most cases it will come down to whomever has the more powerful Personas will almost surely win if they are decent. I am fine with that. There is something fun about that to me. It's just a fun little way to compare yourself to your friends. It makes having those more powerful personas with a more effective skill list more enjoyable. It's certainly more fun than simply killing the Reaper and Margaret and then having nothing else to ever do.

 

[Meia]

Every physical attack in Persona 4 is inherently weaker than using a magical attack, unless the enemy resists all elements. The exceptions to this are Yoshitsune (who is completely broken, and probably intentionally), and Kanji.

Remember, most of the physical attacks are not Power Charged Primal Force/God's Hand.

Most aren't, but most of the magical attacks aren't Mind Charged either. Against an enemy not weak to an element, I haven't seen a Dyne level spell hit for the same amount of damage as a physical, even with an Amp/Boost'd persona backing it. Moreover, that the physicals CAN crit, and sometimes have equipment/abilities to do so make them more powerful as well. You can remove a strength or immunity to an element with a turn, you can't suddenly make it weak so it does a ton more damage.


Only comparable thing I've seen from Golden was when Rise gave Yukiko a mind charge with Burning Petals. I mean, I could be wrong here, but I remember making sure I had one persona of almost every element with a severe single target spell in 3, 4 never bothered and just stuck with physicals.

 

[Sophia]

I don't think using Persona 4 Golden as the basis for any balance theories is a good idea. The game is so broken it lowered the difficulty of the base game. >_>

 

[cj_iwakura]

I have roughly $89 left on a $100 gift card I got from an award at work.

I plan on getting:

Valkyria Chronicles - "Sega of America, Inc."; Video Game
$19.40

Under Defeat: Deluxe Edition - Rising Star Games; Video Game
$19.99

Growlanser Art Works - Satoshi Urushihara; Paperback
$31.24

Drakengard - Square Enix; Video Game
$16.89

Anything I should change? Warn me now! Drakengard and UD are givens, Growlanser and Valkyria I could be swayed on. I do really want Growlanser Works though.

 

[Risette]

under defeat is bad

 

[cj_iwakura]

under defeat is bad

I disagree.

 

[Sophia]

under defeat is bad

wat.

Under Defeat is awesome. Although it's too short.

 

[Meia]

I don't think using Persona 4 Golden as the basis for any balance theories is a good idea. The game is so broken it lowered the difficulty of the base game. >_>

....touche.


Still don't remember any other party member doing more damage with an elemental than a Chie Power Charge + God Hand though, nor do I think I've seen a vid of someone killing

Spoiler

Margaret

in 5 minutes using elementals.

It's certainly more fun than simply killing the Reaper and Margaret and then having nothing else to ever do.

But that's kind of the point, isn't it? That's the "finish line" so to speak. You get replay-ability in these games by experiencing the story again, maybe taking a different team with you through it.


Again, this works better in a game like pokemon that has some random element to catching, and then training. That doesn't really work here, unless they drastically change how to make new personas or give them abilities in the next games.


My major problem though, is I am TIRED of my single player games getting dumbed down by them adding multiplayer content. Keep that shit out of my JRPGs, thanks.

 

[Venfayth]

Yoshitsune with Heat Riser, Debilitate, Power Charge

Power Charge, then Heat Riser yourself, Debilitate the enemy, then Hassou Tobi. :B

 

[cj_iwakura]

I hope Persona 5 has a challenging uber boss. Elizabeth was worthy of SMT. Margaret was a joke.

 

[Risette]

wat.

Under Defeat is awesome. Although it's too short.

just play zero gunner 2

 

[cj_iwakura]

just play zero gunner 2

Consider that Castle Shikigami 2 is my favorite shmup ever, so I'm a bastion of weird tastes.

 

[IHaveCandy]

Well I certainly wouldn't want a multiplayer to adversely affect the single player. I think a lot of games make the mistake of having the multiplayer take priority of the single player. I just want a fun little mode to add a bit more to the game. Something small that you might play for a while with friends and give you more motive to create the better personas. I didnt have much motive to do it in 3 or 4 since the games were pretty easy. You can just choose to make them if you wanted to kill time fusing them high enough and grinding high enough.

 

[cjkeats]

cave invented imagine

I've been playing Deathsmiles all night. My first Cave game. I'm having fun.

 

[Data West]

I'm pretty sure we're at the point that calling Persona 'niche' is silly. It may not be Call of Duty, but it's far from niche these days.

 

[Risette]

I've been playing Deathsmiles all night. My first Cave game. I'm having fun.

Deathsmiles has my favorite merch item: Windia's Dark Urine (drink)

Check out DS2 on XBL GoD. It has a toddler and a crossdresser.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I've been playing Deathsmiles all night. My first Cave game. I'm having fun.

They are one of the most overrated developers ever, but they have a few gems. Deathsmiles and Muchi Muchi are fun.

 

[Risette]

They are one of the most overrated developers ever, but they have a few gems. Deathsmiles and Muchi Muchi are fun.

 

[Rikkun]

If you're grinding, you're doing it wrong. It's ALL about your Persona setup. If you have good Personae, you can win even five levels behind a boss.

Actually I do feel I'm doing something wrong, I just pick some personas from the shuffle and fuse them together. Usually I use a single persona, one who has at least two different elemental attacks. Right now I'm level 48 and actually use this one

But yeah, without a guide I feel like missing a lot.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Sorry, but most of the games people froth at the mouth over I did not enjoy, at all.

Their games felt chaotic, not methodical. I have more fun playing Perfect Cherry Blossom or Imperishable Night than I do EspGaLuda.

 

[jello44]

I have roughly $89 left on a $100 gift card I got from an award at work.

I plan on getting:



Anything I should change? Warn me now! Drakengard and UD are givens, Growlanser and Valkyria I could be swayed on. I do really want Growlanser Works though.

Wait, how do you not own Valkryia?

 

[cj_iwakura]

Wait, how do you not own Valkryia?

I never bought it.

 

[Sophia]

Actually I do feel I'm doing something wrong, I just pick some personas from the shuffle and fuse them together. Usually I use a single persona, one who has at least two different elemental attacks. Right now I'm level 48 and actually use this one.

Hoo boy.... What's with the random Power Charge on that guy? No physical skills, low strength, and Baphomet doesn't learn that naturally. ;

Also, while Baphomet has a high magic stat, there's no reason for him to have the Tier 2 Maragrion, and the Tier 3 Maragidyne. D:

 

[Risette]

Sorry, but most of the games people froth at the mouth over I did not enjoy, at all.

Their games felt chaotic, not methodical. I have more fun playing Perfect Cherry Blossom or Imperishable Night than I do EspGaLuda.

were you using the slowdown button

 

[cj_iwakura]

were you using the slowdown button

Nope.

 

[Risette]

Nope.

you're supposed to

 

[jello44]

I never bought it.

You need to rectify that, one of the best RPGs this gen.

 

[Rikkun]

Hoo boy.... What's with the random Power Charge on that guy? No physical skills, low strength, and Baphomet doesn't learn that naturally. ;

Also, while Baphomet has a high magic stat, there's no reason for him to have the Tier 2 Maragrion, and the Tier 3 Maragidyne. D:

Yeah I guess I fucked up with fusions.. I never used skill cards so everything came from prior personas.

It has both Maragidyne and Maragion because the first one was Agidyne and it levelled up during a shuffle.. but yeah for now I don't feel the need to have a special move pattern or so (for now)

PS: midnight channel hoorayyy

 

[cj_iwakura]

Catching up on Devil Survivor 2, Episode 4.

This is the best adaptation of SMT into a film medium ever. Grand-scale summoner warfare.

I love all the demon fan service.


Need to do some fusing, Hibiki. That's only a L37 demon, tops!

 

[Meia]

Yeah I guess I fucked up with fusions.. I never used skill cards so everything came from prior personas.

It has both Maragidyne and Maragion because the first one was Agidyne and it levelled up during a shuffle.. but yeah for now I don't feel the need to have a special move pattern or so (for now)

In general, realize that it takes a little less than double the amount of xp to level a persona as it does to a character. The MC has two levels to focus on because of this: His actual level, which only matters in terms of the level of the persona he can create and his HP/SP, and his persona level. Unlike the others, the MC's personas ARE his stats, so never go lower than 5 if you don't have to, only gimp yourself.



For the most part, even without using a guide, always catch new personas via shuffle time, then fuse personas that match whatever arcana you have the highest level of in terms of Social Links, as they'll be the most powerful you can get. By fusing an even conned persona with a rank 10 for example, you can get a persona that's at least 6 levels higher than you.


Then it just becomes about what skills. In general, have one or two personas that are good with buffs/debuffs(lowering enemy's attack, raising your own attack, and raising your defense are all great, only stick with the party wide versions of these), have one persona of each element type(base which version of the spell they have based on what your characters are using. Usually if Yukiko has access to Maragion, you may have personas capable of Agidyne). Then have a persona capable of using good healing magic, and you should be golden.


For power houses, figure out which personas get the boost/amp abilities(wind boost, wind amp, etc), and try to fuse those abilities up to newer personas, eventually trying to get ones with boost + amp and at least Dyne spells of that element(boost + amp stack). Then it's about figuring out which characters you want to use, and building your MC's personas around that. If you have Yukiko, having a powerful Fire persona isn't as important, etc.


It's a system that greatly rewards figuring out you want beforehand, but as long as you don't keep yourself underleveled, and you keep a good assortment on you, you shouldn't have a problem with the game.



And after episode 3 of DS2, even with how much I'm enjoying it, I may just be better off playing the game to see the story. Think next game after EP is probably 999, then DS1. Might make me RPG'd out though.

 

[Sophia]

Make sure to take the Persona's stats into account too. You don't want physical skills on a Personae with low strength and agility.

 

[Uncle AJ]

http://i.imgur.com/eDmlSt2.jpg

Damn, I missed this guy. He was an invaluable multi-elemental mid-game demon on both of my Nocturne playthroughs.

 

[Rikkun]

In general, realize that it takes a little less than double the amount of xp to level a persona as it does to a character. The MC has two levels to focus on because of this: His actual level, which only matters in terms of the level of the persona he can create and his HP/SP, and his persona level. Unlike the others, the MC's personas ARE his stats, so never go lower than 5 if you don't have to, only gimp yourself.



For the most part, even without using a guide, always catch new personas via shuffle time, then fuse personas that match whatever arcana you have the highest level of in terms of Social Links, as they'll be the most powerful you can get. By fusing an even conned persona with a rank 10 for example, you can get a persona that's at least 6 levels higher than you.


Then it just becomes about what skills. In general, have one or two personas that are good with buffs/debuffs(lowering enemy's attack, raising your own attack, and raising your defense are all great, only stick with the party wide versions of these), have one persona of each element type(base which version of the spell they have based on what your characters are using. Usually if Yukiko has access to Maragion, you may have personas capable of Agidyne). Then have a persona capable of using good healing magic, and you should be golden.


For power houses, figure out which personas get the boost/amp abilities(wind boost, wind amp, etc), and try to fuse those abilities up to newer personas, eventually trying to get ones with boost + amp and at least Dyne spells of that element(boost + amp stack). Then it's about figuring out which characters you want to use, and building your MC's personas around that. If you have Yukiko, having a powerful Fire persona isn't as important, etc.


It's a system that greatly rewards figuring out you want beforehand, but as long as you don't keep yourself underleveled, and you keep a good assortment on you, you shouldn't have a problem with the game.



And after episode 3 of DS2, even with how much I'm enjoying it, I may just be better off playing the game to see the story. Think next game after EP is probably 999, then DS1. Might make me RPG'd out though.

Make sure to take the Persona's stats into account too. You don't want physical skills on a Personae with low strength and agility.

I actually noticed that by having Kanji and the MC using Zio I never have Garu at disposal, so I'll think about that.. Maybe I should teach a persona at least Magarula and then fuse it..

Also now I basically gained 5 levels by fusing personas to use the right social link.. I kinda feel stupid for never really caring about the extra exp, now I see why it's not that important to grind in the dungeon.

So I made these

Hokuto Seikun came out.. weird. Has no Zio skills but has Elec Boost.. At least I finally can inflict Almighty damage (whatever that means lol)

Oh, and it's 5AM. I'll hit the bed now, thanks guys

 

[Sophia]

Those are much better. Although Hokuto Seikun having Mamudo is odd (low luck) and Elec Boost but no electricity skills.

 

[Meia]

In general, even if they have elec boost and no other elec skill, you can put it in the compendium and keep it and see if you can fuse it to an actual lightning persona later.


In general, you can grind social links outside the dungeon, then complete a dungeon in one day for max grindage. It's kind of the way the games are set up. Only really have to grind personas in Yukiko's dungeon at first, and then for some ultimate abilities on late ones.

 

[Venfayth]

My general pattern is



First dungeon -

Grind to around 17 or so, kill boss (same day)


Every dungeon after that:

Reclear previous dungeon (ignore all small shadows as they award less XP, but I'd still explore for chests) all the way up to the boss room.
Clear new dungeon, including boss.
Kill previous dungeon's secondary boss.

 

[Meia]

My general pattern is



First dungeon -

Grind to around 17 or so, kill boss (same day)


Every dungeon after that:

Reclear previous dungeon (ignore all small shadows as they award less XP, but I'd still explore for chests) all the way up to the boss room.
Clear new dungeon, including boss.
Kill previous dungeon's secondary boss.

Yep, only time this deviates is first dungeons's optional boss, as YIKES trying that before the second one. Only time I was successful with that was first time playing Golden, getting a magician card to turn resist physical into null physical on the Slime.