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Persona Community Thread: The Butterfly Effect
- Thread starter Dantis
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IHaveCandy
Banned
How are the rainy day calendar dates any different than the full moon cycle in Persona 3?
So do you think all open world games and rpgs have bad pacing?
Character development is character development yo. It's still part of the game's story.
The main difference imho is how each dungeon is tied to a character, whereas the full moon cycle in P3 feels almost arbitrary
The main difference imho is how each dungeon is tied to a character, whereas the full moon cycle in P3 feels almost arbitrary
TurnipFritters
Member
They're the ones that brought up "tonal appropriateness" in defense of fucking Persona 4's pacing. (I'd also probably argue that P4 isn't an open world game and it does convey a different atmosphere because a) it is about saving people from a serial killer and b) it literally has a calender so it isn't just some vague "Oh yeah I went off and did a bunch of sidequests nbd" it's "yeah sorry you were stuck in that hellish other dimension for two weeks I was busy playing soccer and baby sitting")
*is a giant walking, talking stuffed bear irl who constantly makes bear puns and is a central character in the game*
How are they different? They literally work in opposite. You need to finish the Shadow off before the month is over in Persona 4, whereas in Persona 3, you need to bide your time until the date forces you to confront the threat. You can't get it out of the way. I guess you could say it's a microcosm of the themes of both games, but please don't make it sound like they're one and the same.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I mean as far as pacing goes. Both are saying "ain't nothing happening to the main story until this date."
TurnipFritters
Member
They're both pretty bad.
e:
Although I'd probably argue that P3 is worse when it comes to ~tonal appropriateness~ what with
the whole ~zany hotsprings scene~ taking place two weeks after SOMEONE'S FATHER DIES
No, I'm giving you a suitable response to your worthlessly reductive statements. Maybe if you want people to take you seriously you should put a bit more effort into your posts instead of whinging about how bad P3/4 are and typing out some "partially accurate observations in quotations slanted to validate your viewpoints" (aforementioned reductive statements) and generally not attempting to create any worthwhile discussion on the flaws of P3/4.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Wait, is that supposed to be about me?
TurnipFritters
Member
Your major defense seems to be that you earnestly think watching the same damn scene over and over and over is not only quality, but some of the finest scenes in gaming. Either you have horrifically bad taste or you're a poor troll, and I can't decide which would be sadder.
....but this pretty much seals that you're a troll. Good show.
lol, you asked for a general definition and now it's in defense of Persona 4? k..............
Neither. You've given me nothing to actually reply to (even in this very post you continue with worthless reductionism), so I reply in kind.
Mocking your inability to make coherent criticism doesn't make me a troll.....but this pretty much seals that you're a troll. Good show.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Persona 3 and 4 both have this cycle. Just replace kill shadow with save victim.
Speaking to the fact there's a lot of arguing about silly crap in the OT lately.
TurnipFritters
Member
The cycle isn't the focus here, it's just how the game goes about sorting its content into chapter-length materials.
TurnipFritters
Member
They're both bad.
Because you don't know what it means (and still don't) -- it has little to do with defending Persona 4 and more to do with the fact that your usage of the term pacing made your posts nonsensical (not that they're much better even with appropriate word usage.)You're the one who brought it up.
TurnipFritters
Member
So you're not defending Persona 4's atrocious pacing.
Marmaladefire
Member
P3 has a lot more tension in my opinion. It's the waiting game, the threat comes to you, and you can't choose when, but your ass better be ready at the full moon. It's the fact that MC feels so much more isolated at first instead of being BFF with the team for so long. They live together, they level grind together, they go their separate ways. The S.links in P3 also felt more important to me because of this. Those people seemed to be as important to MC as the team in some cases. I wanted to hang out with Yuko and Yumi because we were cool, Ai was just some chick who was distracting me from my REAL PEEPS AND OUR PERFECT AUTOFRIENDSHIP FOR THE SAKE OF A PERSONA UPGRADE. The camaraderie builds, and so does the trust. You gain respect for your team and vice versa. I realize it's just a preference in tone for me, but it's a very real one. I'd be disappointed if P5 went the way of P4, even though I like P4 plenty,and the theme of tension building up under seemingly a-okay relationships is a good one (Chie/Yukiko, Yosuke/
) and Naoto is one of my favorite game characters, period I do appreciate the darker tone of P3 and the fact that you often t like you were too weak, the next one would always be the one that you couldn't pass, and that there couldn't be any such thing as a good end game.
The pacing in both is far from perfect, but P3 > P4 in this case.
dead senapi
The pacing in both is far from perfect, but P3 > P4 in this case.
I would chalk this up to levity, and the fact that they're all teenagers. People tend to deal with grief and stress in light hearted ways because that's just the kind of people they are.
It's why you see otherwise smart people make terrible pop culture jokes when something horrible happens. Like the Boston bombings, I saw people one twitter making Bioshock Infinite jokes say "The Vox Populi did it!" and other stupid shit. They're not necessarily terrible people, they just deal with tragedy/stress in a different way.
You haven't even substantiated why you think it's "atrocious", so there's nothing for me to defend -- you're just repeating the things you've already said that don't mean anything.
I fucking love you, Levito.
I wonder if I lose a lot in Persona games by immediately heading to optimise damage outputs and completely wreck the levelling system and thus avoid unnecessary having to give a crap about dying in battle (insofar as that's possible in a game with instant death spells)
TurnipFritters
Member
Forcing the player to watch the same scene over and over. Both the NO YOU'RE NOT ME (which always plays out in the exact same way - there are ways to have character development that do not involve the characters literally announcing their feelings!*) and the investigation meetings. These sequences are the major story events for the first 2/3s or so of the game. The investigation meetings are kind of an interesting case - it should add something to the game, to the story, but it doesn't, because the characters never learn anything. They have nothing to show for their sleuthing, but they still sit around and talk about it for ten minutes. And it happens throughout the game! That's multiple ten minute scenes about nothing.
This is especially bad when it comes to mystery stories because there's an expectation of actual clues for the reader/viewer/player to try and piece together the story themselves. Now, you could argue that P4 isn't really a mystery, but the game seems to feel it is, right down to making the player identify the perp. But if you decided to go ahead with that, that P4 isn't really a mystery game, then I'd argue that it shouldn't make the player run around and talk to every NPC in town until they've gathered enough clues about the Victim du jour's insecurities to find their dungeon (sometimes these sequences take multiple days). Which, I mean, they shouldn't do that anyway, but the game frames it as detective work so.
*Somewhat unrelated but a note to the Persona writers nonetheless: "Is bad at cooking" is not an interesting character trait! Like, maybe if it's a character who wants to be a chef or something? And you actually spend time with them in the kitchen, helping them learn how to cook? But not "Oh my god the girls are bad at cooking can you believe it here have three to five scenes about how bad they are at cooking and laaaaauggghhh all through the night!!!"
TurnipFritters
Member
YES!
DOES THIS MEAN THAT I PASS?
Not only do you pass, you get to teach the class.
IHaveCandy
Banned
A friend just told me that "Burn My Dread" sounds like "Burn My Bread". I can't unhear it now.
Thank you for writing out a good post this time, I fully agree. (except I don't think it makes it atrocious, just flawed)
IHaveCandy
Banned
I just got around to adding the OSTs for 3 and 4 to my library today. I'm fairly new to Persona . I completed Persona 3 less than week ago.
I agree with most of this, except for the "You're not me!". It becomes trite by the end of the game, but I think it's to keep a consistency between the events, to kind of emphasize the fact that everyone has these kinds of problems and a shadow self and whatever.
TurnipFritters
Member
it is literally what i have been saying the whole time but thanks for taking umbrage dawg~
Maybe if I had access to your mind and could fill in the blanks you left up for assumption...
Please do note that I am not agreeing with you dishonestly -- I actually do agree with you. Often times the most ridiculous part of the bizarre "animephobic" contingent of the Persona fanbase is that the story content in the games wouldn't be acceptable in an anime considered good. It's a mediocre (but fun!) anime at best. And the anime that was made of P4 was pretty fucking terrible (but that's not really the game's fault -- poor handling of decent but flawed content is a recipe for disaster.)
Despite that, it is still pretty high-grade in the realm of videogame stories. Such is the state of things in a lower-rung artistic medium.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I really liked the Persona 4 anime....
I would dispute that the investigation stuff adds nothing to the story; when you're working from as little information as the Team was, it's basically them dealing with things one step at a time until more information comes onto the scene. Since they can't be pro-active in gathering information for the most part, it's like they're trying to work out a jigsaw with two corner pieces and a random piece in the middle. In the meantime it's just more character stuff etc.
I do hope they break the formula next cycle. But not all the way back down to RPG no-time levels. Would they do something as radical as rip out the calender system?
I do hope they break the formula next cycle. But not all the way back down to RPG no-time levels. Would they do something as radical as rip out the calender system?
No. They're not gonna change-up the formula in ways that will turn people off. The calendar system will be there. S. Links will be there.
I think it's more about what they add and improving what's there already rather then removing a system that works and has been well-received and really contributes to how the series sticks out from the rest of the genre at large.
I think it's more about what they add and improving what's there already rather then removing a system that works and has been well-received and really contributes to how the series sticks out from the rest of the genre at large.
So do I. Games (particularly) RPGs can lean into that. I think it's a quality you mostly find in novels. There are a few good TV shows that also have it.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I'd like them to add back the different physical attacks and the personality aspect of Persona 2, but not for collecting cards. It's something that could factor in both the combat and social aspects of the game.
PedroPanache
Member
Currently absolutely loving Persona 4: Golden. I was tempted to use a walkthrough but decided against it, going to leave that to the new game plus mode. No idea if I'm doing things correctly, but I'm having a blast with the social links. Chie's new voice was irritating at first, but over time I've grown quite fond it as it captures her slightly hyperbolic, madcap personality really well. It helps that I only played a little bit of the PS2 version, so I don't have that nostalgia for her original VA.
Turning the dial took some time...
It's time to go home.
To that specific point, I think the days should be longer and they're getting hip to that. Probably why they added leaving home at night to P4G.
A lot of the mechanical things from P4G I consider a lock for P5. The arc in how they've improved overall as a studio from P3 to FES, to P4, to P3P, and finally P4G is really clear.
I feel like P3P was much more of a step forward in most ways than P4G.
I can't think of much at all that P4G added?
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