• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Persona Mafia |OT| Memento Mori

Natiko

Banned
This was in reference to StarSketch. Could be nothing, could be him trying to set her up for a lynch if she were to track him and get results.

I don't know. I'm starting to suspect either Star is scum or exmachina is scum. BlackBuzzard made the claim that TheExodu5 and Style were already doomed to be lynched due to their mistakes and used their time to try and push against exmachina to clear him going forward. I didn't buy into the theory too much but with Vanguard being confirmed town it actually strengthens the argument some as it means they didn't triple team exmachina, but instead only double teamed him with two soon to be lynched scum. That could have really backfired though had exmachina been lynched as they weren't the deciding votes. It wouldn't have cleared Style for sure and probably wouldn't have cleared TheExodu5 either.

Too many "buts" in this argument right now.
I would like to point everyone back to this post. I was concerned about exmachina's use of the term "bus" as that exact slip up is what got TheExodu5 lynched and he flipped scum. I just didn't think it was a solid enough argument, there were too many holes in it so I chose not to consider switching my vote.

I dunno if the voting tool is lagging but this hasn't shown up
I would like to call special attention to this post. Everyone was lined up on BlackBuzzard then the instant there was a different possible target both Style and BlackBuzzard converged on him. BlackBuzzard was so frantic to do so he kept miscasting votes. Star was such a team player in trying to get exmachina lynched she drew special attention to BlackBuzzard's voting issues trying to make sure exmachina got pushed ahead in voting.

I checked Natiko

He did nothing :/
This claim does nothing to make me believe you. If you were going to have to lie about tracking anyone I'm one of the easiest choices because I'm not hiding in the background or disappearing frequently like some of the other players who may be trying to deflect suspicion from themselves for various reasons (whether that be a PR or because they're scum).

My stomach hurts. What if he's innocent?
Special shout out to plop. A post like this after the votes have been cast seems a little convenient. You're not on my list currently but you're just below it.

Damn, Franny you'll be avenged. Let's start with saying hi Septimus, glad to have you. Take awhile and give your thoughts.

After that, yesterday was a right cluster fuck. I'm going back to understand just how this happened as it was in full swing by the time I came in. Who was the first person to comment on EX using Bus as a reason for lynch, where did Hyper go, why is it that we opted for shooting in the dark with flips that would tell us, well, nothing.
That sure is a good question.

Well now that that's out of the way lets get down to the nitty gritty.

Player List:

???
Septimus Prime - Who are you?! Just kidding, welcome to the game. You replaced a player that didn't contribute much so I'm not even going to try and get a read here.

Town
II-Vanguard-II - Confirmed town.

Matt Attack - It feels like this is an example of someone who is town, but simply cannot devote a ton of time to the game. When he does post he generally shares more thoughts than a lot of others do for the entire day phase.

flatearthpandas - Has been questioning a lot of people in ways that I feel are productive. I don't see any reason to suspect fep and I haven't suspected in the past day phases either that I recall. He seems genuine in his thoughts (and his concern about either plop or myself being scum looks more valid now with plop seeming questionable)

Leaning Town
Verelios - I don't always agree with your opinions but it seems like you are town from your votes. You didn't vote yesterday which was odd, but your votes the first two days seem to be well placed and you stuck by your opinion in each one.

Null
WhereAreMahDragonz - Really not sure what to think here. I would put you lower but you've used the reasoning of having some personal issues to take care of so I'm going to let it by. Definitely closer to scum than town for me currently though.

11037 - Seems like a player that just doesn't have time to participate much. Hard to get much of a read beyond that. If he's scum then he's decided to just not influence the game in any way and hope it works out.

Leaning Scum
plop - I may have pointed out the odd term usage by exmachina but you really ran with it, pushed hard for it at the end, and then as soon as you knew votes couldn't be moved tried to backpedal and express remorse. Seems a bit too calculated to me. Star's claim of tracking me over for instance you (leaning scum) or BlackBuzzard (scum) also creates an odd link that concerns me. The only thing holding you back is I can't imagine all three scum would pile on exmachina. That would be so incredibly dumb on scum's part that I think they instead used you as a patsy. They saw town pushing to lynch town and jumped on board hoping you would be the one that gets lynched for it.

PK Gaming - If you want to keep defending Star I'm going to put you lower and lower on the list. You have barely contributed any thoughts to the game as of late besides "nuh uh can't be Star I refuse". The only thing I can think is you cannot separate Star, the person you are friends with, and Star, the player of mafia who based on a random distribution of roles could very well be scum.

Scum
BlackBuzzard - Has been defended by TheExodu5, confirmed scum. Was extremely quick to try and pile on exmachina to save his own skin. Has felt scummy for awhile and generally has not been helpful to town. Has also been defended repeatedly by Hyper. Feels like scum is just trying to delay the death of some of them while working through town members.

Hyperactivity - Where did you go for almost all of the last day phase? I know you said you were busy with applications but it does seem oddly convenient. If we take a look at the people that have been night killed they have all been part of the top posters. We only have a few people left at the top of the list that are even alive. I'm one and I know I'm town. You're another and I'm only just barely ahead of you in posts now. Verelios is the third and he's a bit behind you still despite you not posting at all really last day phase. I think while there is surely some truth in why you were busy, there was calculation behind it. You wanted to be quiet and give the rest of us time to catch up to you in posts. You realize that if the high activity players keep getting offed but you coast through town will turn your direction for a lynch, and that's the last thing you want as scum. You pushed all the conversation day two towards franconp who has now been cleared and when I pushed you to give in-depth reasoning you said you would then never did so. I doubt anyone is going to go with me on this but when Hyper keeps surviving through the night do not forget this.

StarSketch - I don't believe you're a tracker. You chose me to make your fake tracking claim about because I'm the safest target. If you were going to target someone based on the voting yesterday you could have picked plop, BlackBuzzard, etc. but you chose me even though I didn't even vote for exmachina. Seems far too suspect. This not to mention you lived another night without being targeted by scum which is still suspicious despite your claim of just conveniently slipping by as a revealed power role in one game prior. Just because it happened then doesn't mean I will just assume it'll happen now.

VOTE: StarSketch
 

Natiko

Banned
So they also leave the confirmed town alive? Or perhaps, after being down 2 by night 3, they decide keeping a tracker who at the very least would have confirmed that someone didn't confirm last night's kill was worth it?

I am forgetting the whole franconp bit being able to vote thing really helped his case, but star still seriously bothers me now. Now that the day hasn't just started, I'm willing to give her a shot, bit she's still my likely vote

They've been very consistent in night killing the more active town members. If (and in my mind this is a pretty big if currently) you are town then it should be me and you up on the chopping block over the next two nights.
 
They've been very consistent in night killing the more active town members. If (and in my mind this is a pretty big if currently) you are town then it should be me and you up on the chopping block over the next two nights.

Oh for sure, although I would add pk gaming to that list at the very least. I imagine I'm next, as I (at least imo) should be more confirmed as town.

That being said, scum won't let vanguard or verelios reach the end game, that's far too dangerous for them
 

11037

Banned
Oh for sure, although I would add pk gaming to that list at the very least. I imagine I'm next, as I (at least imo) should be more confirmed as town.

That being said, scum won't let vanguard or verelios reach the end game, that's far too dangerous for them
How come you mentioned PK Gaming? I believe you, Natiko, plop and Verelios are all much more active than he is. If scum are targeting high posters by the time they have gotten rid of you lot I imagine the game would be pretty much over.
 

PK Gaming

Member
How come you mentioned PK Gaming? I believe you, Natiko, plop and Verelios are all much more active than he is. If scum are targeting high posters by the time they have gotten rid of you lot I imagine the game would be pretty much over.

I agree

I can't say i'm the most active or even a proactive user, so what's led you to that conclusion Hyperactivity??
 

Verelios

Member
They've been very consistent in night killing the more active town members. If (and in my mind this is a pretty big if currently) you are town then it should be me and you up on the chopping block over the next two nights.
Scum is trying to stifle discussion(Firstly by chopping discussion leaders) which makes it easier for them to lead it, gradually culling town. It's very effective! Not that good for us though.
Oh for sure, although I would add pk gaming to that list at the very least. I imagine I'm next, as I (at least imo) should be more confirmed as town.

That being said, scum won't let vanguard or verelios reach the end game, that's far too dangerous for them
I'd assume PK won't be lynched before Star and since I package them as a set they're either an elaborate ruse to end game or just plain head scratching when they don't get NK'ed. As for Vanguard...yeah, sorry buddy but there's almost no chance scum is letting a confirmed townie live much longer.
And then when I flip town, what then?
Amusing undoubtedly, but that's on the condition of you flipping town.
 

Natiko

Banned
BlackBuzzard hasn't even bothered to come in and say anything in regards to how he looks after last day phase's events. So until he comes and talks I'm going to temporarily shift my vote to him.

VOTE: BlackBuzzard
 

Natiko

Banned
=/

Who hasn't shown up yet? Everybody accounted for?

BlackBuzzard, II-Vanguard-II, and Matt Attack I believe. The new player showed up for a single post that didn't have any actual info but they have a ton to catch up on so I'm not really going to fault them for that.
 

Verelios

Member
BlackBuzzard, II-Vanguard-II, and Matt Attack I believe. The new player showed up for a single post that didn't have any actual info but they have a ton to catch up on so I'm not really going to fault them for that.
Hm, I suppose I can understand Vanguard since yesterday was probably messy for him, guess we'll see tomorrow as there's still two days.
 
Hm, I suppose I can understand Vanguard since yesterday was probably messy for him, guess we'll see tomorrow as there's still two days.
Again, there's no need to understand anything about vanguard. He's confirmed town. Fuck, i fall asleep end of day again and vanguard is going to be the lynch.
 

Natiko

Banned
Again, there's no need to understand anything about vanguard. He's confirmed town. Fuck, i fall asleep end of day again and vanguard is going to be the lynch.
I don't think anyone was even considering such a thing? Perhaps, now this might sound crazy, but perhaps some of us want to know what his thoughts are since we know we can trust them to be genuine?
 
starsketch (2)
flatearthpandas 1776
starsketch 1787
natiko 1801 (1814)

plop (1)
wherearemahdragonz 1811

blackbuzzard (1)
natiko 1814

Day Ends:

bla_1481317200.png


Majority is 7 Votes
 
Sorry for the late post
why the hell did you guys went for ex last night while BB is obviously scum
also star the fact that you're alive after role claiming for 2 nights is incredibly suspicious although i can see if the scum aren't NKing you so that we get suspicious and lynch you ourselves still my top scum is BB.
and welcome to the game Septimus and good luck.
 

Natiko

Banned
What do you mean by this? Elucidate, if possible
Because as far as I can tell no one is in any way contemplating a Vanguard lynch. The sentiment that it was a possibility seemed bizarre.
You guys lynched another confirmed town, that's why
I did not lynch exmachina. I stated that I didn't think it was a strong enough case, there were too many thing that didn't make sense for exmachina to be scum. You also say "another" as if it had happened previously. It's pretty clear that had you been around you would have pushed for a franconp lynch. Care to remind me how that would've turned out?
 

Natiko

Banned
The major issue with looking at day 1 votes is that 2/3 of the exmachina64 voters who are dead were lynched, and the other was an active town leader, almost all of the theexou5 voters were active, and most of the alternative voters have had a lower level of activity, barring probably plop and natiko.

Oh wait add 11036 to that list of alternative votes.

Looking at yesterday's votes alone (notice word choice here natiko&plop), the main one that stands out to me from that group is plop.

As for pure gun to my head statements on the other players (NOTE: that means operating on a mix of memory and gu):

FEP- safely town
Natiko- leaving town on after a period where I was unsure about earlier town read

Matt Attack - has stepped it up, generally posts in very dense posts, but that actually makes me less comfortable with giving him a town read without parsing through them well. For now slight town???

Il-vanguard-il - makes me feel uneasy. I'm wary of this just being because others have repeatedly brought him to as a suspect, but I'm pretty sure I'm also operating on my memory of his posts right now. Lean scum

WAMD- generally a very direct, only posting when they want style. Gut reading as town.

Verelios - town read for earlier reason of not acting to save scum

11037 - makes me feel uneasy off tone of posts, slight scum read

Zippy- complete null right now

Plop- his day 3 incarnation and even 2 to a certain extent feel scummy, but his early day 1 had led me to a solid town read. If I think about it right now, I'm not sure if those early posts couldn't also be from a scum player, but I'm worried about it being recency bias. Scum read, light one though

Star sketch is 95% scum

Oh yeah PK - early strong town read, but I suppose I can see him as the most likely scum from the group that voted theexodu5. Still a town read
I find it very curious that you chose to leave BlackBuzzard out of this despite remembering every single other poster, even those with little activity that hadn't checked in for the day like Matt Attack. Especially after you made a point to defend BlackBuzzard in the past and even mentioned him when listing who was gunning for exmachina. I also find it convenient you made sure to give him an excuse for his vote yet you keep trying to pin blame on me when I never cast a vote for exmachina.
 
Special shout out to plop. A post like this after the votes have been cast seems a little convenient. You're not on my list currently but you're just below it.

Yeah I know it's not a good look. That whole end of day isn't a good look for me. In my defense, even though I'm new, I'd know better than to look that obvious if I were scum.

That was me just being legit fucking stupid. And my stomach really did hurt as the adrenaline died down and I realized that my righteous scum accusation was likely against an innocent person.

I'm still absolutely embarrassed. You won't see me leading a charge again, I can promise you that. Between exmachina and almost lynching Vanguard (and the fact that I had franconp leaning scum), my reads are horseshit.
 

Verelios

Member
Again, there's no need to understand anything about vanguard. He's confirmed town. Fuck, i fall asleep end of day again and vanguard is going to be the lynch.
My post was in reference to this chain below. Obviously Vanguard is town, I'm just saying why he might not have been here now, and I can understand.
=/

Who hasn't shown up yet? Everybody accounted for?

BlackBuzzard, II-Vanguard-II, and Matt Attack I believe. The new player showed up for a single post that didn't have any actual info but they have a ton to catch up on so I'm not really going to fault them for that.
 
I'm really not sure what to think of franconp getting killed- its kind of out of left field. If Star is town, she or Vanguard really would have been higher priority choices. I considered that they might leave Star alive and let us lynch her, but considering that if she's telling the truth, her power would become confirmed upon lynch would give make her a huuuge risk (because it would verify any if he might action reports she might mention). I'm trying to think of why they'd go for franconp over Star, especially considering that franconp has no power (and as a result, probably didn't leave any signs of having one for them to want to lynch him over).

I think Plop is laying on the defeatist attitude a little too thick. If you're town, then don't let being wrong stop you from pushing for people you think are scum. Everybody is wrong at some point, and the game is set up so that we can mislynch a few times. The suspicious side of me wants to say that pledging not to "lead a charge" could be a scum way of trying to justify sliding into the background despite previously taking on the role of one of the discussion leaders.
 
I'm really not sure what to think of franconp getting killed- its kind of out of left field. If Star is town, she or Vanguard really would have been higher priority choices. I considered that they might leave Star alive and let us lynch her, but considering that if she's telling the truth, her power would become confirmed upon lynch would give make her a huuuge risk (because it would verify any if he might action reports she might mention). I'm trying to think of why they'd go for franconp over Star, especially considering that franconp has no power (and as a result, probably didn't leave any signs of having one for them to want to lynch him over).

I think Plop is laying on the defeatist attitude a little too thick. If you're town, then don't let being wrong stop you from pushing for people you think are scum. Everybody is wrong at some point, and the game is set up so that we can mislynch a few times. The suspicious side of me wants to say that pledging not to "lead a charge" could be a scum way of trying to justify sliding into the background despite previously taking on the role of one of the discussion leaders.

No I'm not going to slide away. And yes, I know I seem to be laying it on thick. I'm competitive and I feel like I let my team down.

I'll get over it. I just need to be WAY more careful.
 

Verelios

Member
Sorry really long day at work so went to bed before the day started. Tired now but ill say i still believe Starsketch is town.
Wow, this day is painfully slow, not entertaining that so I'll pop in with some questions every once in a while. Why do you feel SS is town BB?

Also, 10 people remaining, probably 3 scum left and 7 town given a 20 player game and 5 scum team. How's everyone feel about it?
 

Natiko

Banned
Sorry really long day at work so went to bed before the day started. Tired now but ill say i still believe Starsketch is town.
Well isn't that convenient.
Wow, this day is painfully slow, not entertaining that so I'll pop in with some questions every once in a while. Why do you feel SS is town BB?

Also, 10 people remaining, probably 3 scum left and 7 town given a 20 player game and 5 scum team. How's everyone feel about it?
I agree we have three scum remaining. My money is on StarSketch, BlackBuzzard, and Hyperactivity. Star was far too quick to try and help BlackBuzzard in lynching exmachina yesterday instead of BlackBuzzard himself. I also don't believe her role claim. BlackBuzzard is now just trying to sit back and hide among the group, hoping plop or Star will take the fall for the exmachina lynch. His only post so far today was to try and give a small push to defend Star. He said nothing regarding his or Star's actions yesterday, in fact he didn't even give any reasoning as to why we should trust Star. Hyper is the only one that could be iffy, but frankly the fact that he seems more than glad to give BlackBuzzard a pass for that vote after already defending him in the past for no apparent reason makes him seem more and more likely to be scum. He's cutting back on his activity to try and give credence to himself in the future when he's conveniently never lynched. I mean just look at this shit:
They've been very consistent in night killing the more active town members. If (and in my mind this is a pretty big if currently) you are town then it should be me and you up on the chopping block over the next two nights.
Oh for sure, although I would add pk gaming to that list at the very least. I imagine I'm next, as I (at least imo) should be more confirmed as town.

That being said, scum won't let vanguard or verelios reach the end game, that's far too dangerous for them

He ignored everything in my post pointing to him, BlackBuzzard, and Star being scum but finds the time to respond to the very next one about me and him being likely to be night killed next just to try and point towards others we should expect to be night killed first. This despite the fact that we've already seen them skip killing Vanguard a 100% confirmed townie in favor of franconp. Why is he so certain they'll suddenly start breaking the mold soon? Because he's one of them and he doesn't want us to lynch him for magically avoiding the too much activity bullet of the scum each night to come.
Plop.

Why did you keep your vote on exmachina, who was so clearly town? If you explained it before I apologize but I didn't see it and I would like to know.

He didn't have his vote on exmachina originally, it was on zippedpinhead. After I pointed out that exmachina mistakenly used the term bus just as TheExodu5 did plop jumped on it hard and cast the first vote for exmachina. Star and BlackBuzzard immediately joined the lynch exmachina bandwagon, prompting exmachina to suicide out of irritation and vote for himself as well.
 

PK Gaming

Member
Also, 10 people remaining, probably 3 scum left and 7 town given a 20 player game and 5 scum team. How's everyone feel about it?

It friggen bites.

But I think my biggest misgiving so far is the rampant scrutinization of literally every action. Posts like "I've had a long day at work" or "gonna post after I do a thing" are consistently met with "hmmmmm, quite suspicious." I get that the point is to put pressure on scum, but considering the results of the game so far, it hasn't been helpful (and it's been downright rude at times). I can't go around pointing fingers since i'm not the greatest player, but I'd like to own up my activity in the last round.

I fucked up. We fucked up by letting exmachina killed.

I think Natiko's recent post is a good springboard for discussion (even if I partly disagree)

As I said earlier, Hyperactivity took over for a player with barely any activity. Hence, he's a literal wild card.
 

Verelios

Member
I don't believe anyone is scrutinizing people having prior engagements outside the game. That wouldn't fly as an argument, well, at all. What I am seeing are people commenting on posts like that and they're usually one sentence or word responses.
 

Natiko

Banned
Yeah, I don't have a problem with people having stuff to handle outside of the game. It happens, I missed a solid chunk in the first day phase due to that. It's more when they show up and don't bother to respond to much of anything and just leave a drive-by post like "Sorry everyone I'm busy, but also tots trust Star thanks everyone bye" lol
 

Natiko

Banned
Theory: BB is scum, and is just latching to me because when I inevitably die, it'll make him look town-y.
Well, I agree with you on one of these points. All I know is you or BB are getting my vote today. I would vote for Hyper as well but I know that's more controversial still and I know if he keeps living everyone else will remember what I said and lynch him even if I'm taken out tonight and don't get to participate further.
 
So I'm still stumped as to why Star or Vanguard aren't dead. I can see them choosing to spare one or the other, but not both. With Vanguard being confirmed town, that leaves Star looking scummy to me.

She's doing this "I'm so innocent I'll sacrifice myself to prove it" thing, which makes me wonder if all this suspicion is for nothing, but the fact that she's still here is troubling. Unless, of course, scum just wants us to lynch her for them. But would they risk leaving a PR townie alive on the chance that we might go after her?

What are the odds they tried to kill one but a healer saved them? Would we be informed of that by mods or is that not shared?

Because if she's alive and nobody tried to kill her...

After that, my suspicion is still on BlackBuzzard somewhat and Hyper (as well as Septimus because of who he replaced). I went into why yesterday and nothing has happened to change any of that yet.

I hope to Christ at least one of them is scum so I can turn the corner on how bad my reads have been as of late.
 

11037

Banned
So I'm still stumped as to why Star or Vanguard aren't dead. I can see them choosing to spare one or the other, but not both. With Vanguard being confirmed town, that leaves Star looking scummy to me.

She's doing this "I'm so innocent I'll sacrifice myself to prove it" thing, which makes me wonder if all this suspicion is for nothing, but the fact that she's still here is troubling. Unless, of course, scum just wants us to lynch her for them. But would they risk leaving a PR townie alive on the chance that we might go after her?

What are the odds they tried to kill one but a healer saved them? Would we be informed of that by mods or is that not shared?

Because if she's alive and nobody tried to kill her...

After that, my suspicion is still on BlackBuzzard somewhat and Hyper (as well as Septimus because of who he replaced). I went into why yesterday and nothing has happened to change any of that yet.

I hope to Christ at least one of them is scum so I can turn the corner on how bad my reads have been as of late.
Vanguard is still alive because although he is confirmed town, he doesn't contribute to the discussion as much as franconp did. Scum will prolly save killing Vanguard for later.

As for the Doctor thing, I don't think we would get informed if somebody got saved. And I doubt StarSketch has been saved before, considering we haven't had a night where nobody has died.
 

Natiko

Banned
Yeah, based on there not being a night with no death so far makes me think they've hit their target each time. Ty died from investigating scum.
 

11037

Banned
VOTE: Hyperactivity

Reading back through his posts I believe that Hyper is scum. Hyper has been a player who constantly shifts his vote around, and believed Fran was scum up until his death. Hyper has defended BlackBuzzad many times and has referred to him as a "Top Town Read". [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226133333&postcount=1796]I find this post to be weird[/URL], I don't know why Hyper was speculating about a possible third party when there hasn't been anything to support it in the game. No double kills, nothing. This post feels like it was made two (in-game) days too late. It's information that I would have thought that everyone else would have already realised.

I'm also not sure how I feel about StarSketch. The fact that she has survived this far is suspicious but at the same time, with 9 players to investigate, she really only has an 11.1% chance of seeing someone make a kill (I'm presuming that only one mafia member makes the kill). As Plop has stated, I feel scum have left her alive just so that the town can do their job for them.
 

11037

Banned
So are we thinking Fran was killed because he was talkative, or is it possible he was leaning heavy on some scum?
He was killed for being talkative.

I'm just wondering if it would be wise to see who Sorian, Flux, and Fran were after and see if anyone matches up, or if that would just be a wild goose chase.
Thinking back, I don't believe any of them voted for the same person. I guess it wouldn't hurt to look back through their posts tho, as my shitty memory isn't very reliable.
 

Natiko

Banned
So are we thinking Fran was killed because he was talkative, or is it possible he was leaning heavy on some scum?
It's really hard to say. It's clear they're picking their targets from the most active players, but they're not purely going for the player with the most activity in each case. They did for the first and third nights, but the second night picking Flux throws that out of whack a bit. I wish someone had posted everyone's post count at that point, but I suspect of the living players at the time Flux was at best third. If you look at who they killed though you will notice they went after players with some experience as well - Sorian, then Flux, and finally franconp. Flux got picked second because of his experience combined with his activity I believe. It makes me even more curious as to why Hyper has managed to escape unscathed. Even with only a few posts in the entire last day phase he's up towards the top of our post counts and he definitely has a lot of experience in these games.
I'm just wondering if it would be wise to see who Sorian, Flux, and Fran were after and see if anyone matches up, or if that would just be a wild goose chase.
I wouldn't be surprised to see they may have been correct on potential scum at points, but I don't believe we can chalk it up as being the primary reason they were targeted. Off the top of my head Sorian only really suspected Vanguard of those left and we know that was off the mark. Franconp suspected Hyper and BlackBuzzard at times if I recall correctly but I could be wrong (on mobile so I'd rather not try and dig currently, I'll look more tomorrow if no one else has)
 
Top Bottom