Support NeoGAF

[Natiko]

VOTE: Hyperactivity

Reading back through his posts I believe that Hyper is scum. Hyper has been a player who constantly shifts his vote around, and believed Fran was scum up until his death. Hyper has defended BlackBuzzad many times and has referred to him as a "Top Town Read". [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226133333&postcount=1796]I find this post to be weird[/URL], I don't know why Hyper was speculating about a possible third party when there hasn't been anything to support it in the game. No double kills, nothing. This post feels like it was made two (in-game) days too late. It's information that I would have thought that everyone else would have already realised.

I'm also not sure how I feel about StarSketch. The fact that she has survived this far is suspicious but at the same time, with 9 players to investigate, she really only has an 11.1% chance of seeing someone make a kill (I'm presuming that only one mafia member makes the kill). As Plop has stated, I feel scum have left her alive just so that the town can do their job for them.

I've already made my thoughts clear on Hyper but I do think that post is interesting for another reason besides what you mentioned. His conclusion trying to push us to go after those Ty4on read as town is probably setup for a later push by him to make plop, myself, or PK Gaming the lynch target if I were to speculate in advance. I don't think he would try and push Verelios or FEP as the lynch for the day because I don't think he believes he would get much traction. Plop is the most likely target and one I can't even argue against a ton because he does look iffy. He's just not one of my top suspects currently though.

As for Star, I think it's important to examine not just the results she got but who she picked. Ask yourself, after how yesterday ended given everyone left - am I the person you would have targeted first and foremost to track? Personally I think it would have made far more sense to track say, BlackBuzzard or plop. The fact that she supposedly chose me reeks of picking someone she thinks she can get away with a fake claim about as opposed to picking the person someone that is actually town would suspect most from that day end (excluding Star herself obviously).

 

[StarSketch]

My brain said "Natiko noticed the exmachina slip, let's go after him" instead of "plop actually started the lynch train, let's check him."

 

[11037]

I've already made my thoughts clear on Hyper but I do think that post is interesting for another reason besides what you mentioned. His conclusion trying to push us to go after those Ty4on read as town is probably setup for a later push by him to make plop, myself, or PK Gaming the lynch target if I were to speculate in advance. I don't think he would try and push Verelios or FEP as the lynch for the day because I don't think he believes he would get much traction. Plop is the most likely target and one I can't even argue against a ton because he does look iffy. He's just not one of my top suspects currently though.

As for Star, I think it's important to examine not just the results she got but who she picked. Ask yourself, after how yesterday ended given everyone left - am I the person you would have targeted first and foremost to track? Personally I think it would have made far more sense to track say, BlackBuzzard or plop. The fact that she supposedly chose me reeks of picking someone she thinks she can get away with a fake claim about as opposed to picking the person someone that is actually town would suspect most from that day end (excluding Star herself obviously).

I didn't realise that. That does make Hyper look even more suspicious to me.

As for Star, if I were in her position I wouldn't have investigated you. Could she be scum lying? Sure. Could she be a frustrated townie who thought you were suspicious? Sure. I'm conflicted on how to feel about her. Star doesn't really post her thoughts on what she thinks about other players and her whole "I'm so town guys! If you lynch me you'll just see how town I am!" shtick isn't really helpful. I would rather see Hyper or BB get lynched today before Star personally.

 

[Natiko]

That's fair. I'm fine with allowing Star to live one more night if that's what people are trending towards. If she is Town she could use her last power charge. My main fear with letting her live is what if we are primarily on the right track. Say we as a group are relatively settled on the last handful of suspects and all the scum are actually named in said group. The chances they just go with "I tracked so and so and they did nothing" as their lie is slim and instead I would bet they try and set someone innocent up to get lynched by having her say she tracked them and they were the one that did the night kill. They'll know once she has used all her supposed powers the chances she gets lynched are even higher so they'll come up with some gambit and that inherently makes anything she claims for tomorrow's day phase that much more dangerous and that much harder to take at face value. I dunno. For now my vote will remain on BlackBuzzard seeing as he has done nothing to change my mind. For me to vote on anyone but these three would take a monumental fuck up by someone though because I feel pretty solid in my reasoning.

 

[PK Gaming]

Just spitballing here, but do you think franconp was killed because of his powers?

Like he accidentally interacted with a scum and got killed for it. I doubt he's another investigator, but his death strikes me as pretty weird. Scum leaving Sketch alive is pretty risky due to her power... do you think they actually tried to kill her and failed?

 

[11037]

I get what you're saying but if Star does live and she is scum I feel it would be very easy for the scum team to fuck it up. If Star says "I watched CrimsonFist last night and he performed an action!" than the following would probably happen:

1) People don't believe her
2) The person who has been set-up will come in to protect themselves and maybe role-claim
3) Star and remaining scum members would have to vote for the set-up person in a way that seems real and doesn't draw attention to themselves

I don't feel like the scum team could do a very good job of pulling that off. (Watch this happen now that I have typed this). Realistically, who could the scum pick as a person to set-up successfully? They would have only six people to choose from.

 

[11037]

Just spitballing here, but do you think franconp was killed because of his powers?

Like he accidentally interacted with a scum and got killed for it. I doubt he's another investigator, but his death strikes me as pretty weird. Scum leaving Sketch alive is pretty risky due to her power... do you think they actually tried to kill her and failed?

Wasn't Fran just basically and Ordinary Townie? I don't think he had any powers...

Also my last post should say five people, not six. (Natiko, Vanguard and the other three mafia members in case you were wondering)

 

[PK Gaming]

Wasn't Fran just basically and Ordinary Townie? I don't think he had any powers...

Also my last post should say five people, not six. (Natiko, Vanguard and the other three mafia members in case you were wondering)

How do you know that?

There was that rancid gravy moment... perhaps there was a side effect, or maybe a scum was dead set on killing him

Which... kind of paints you in a bad light, eh Hyperactivity?

 

[11037]

How do you know that?

There was that rancid gravy moment... perhaps there was a side effect, or maybe a scum was dead set on killing him

Which... kind of paints you in a bad light, eh Hyperactivity?

His Role PM shows that he didn't have any powers.

 

[Verelios]

Just spitballing here, but do you think franconp was killed because of his powers?

Like he accidentally interacted with a scum and got killed for it. I doubt he's another investigator, but his death strikes me as pretty weird. Scum leaving Sketch alive is pretty risky due to her power... do you think they actually tried to kill her and failed?

No, I don't believe so. Fran said what happened, he was visited at night (I believe him) and was either hit by the doctor(+2 HP remember) or scum.

Wasn't Fran just basically and Ordinary Townie? I don't think he had any powers...

Also my last post should say five people, not six. (Natiko, Vanguard and the other three mafia members in case you were wondering)

Yes, he was ordinary town, as his role explained.

How do you know that?

There was that rancid gravy moment... perhaps there was a side effect, or maybe a scum was dead set on killing him

Which... kind of paints you in a bad light, eh Hyperactivity?

I'm not moving around in circles here, what are you playing at with this PK? Unless you believe the rancid gravy was a poison that took 2 nights for effect (maybe a scum move), but then why wasn't there a 2NK anytime?

 

[PK Gaming]

His Role PM shows that he didn't have any powers.

Bah, I forgot.

Gotta be less careless zzz.

No, I don't believe so. Fran said what happened, he was visited at night (I believe him) and was either hit by the doctor(+2 HP remember) or scum.

Yes, he was ordinary town, as his role explained.

I'm not moving around in circles here, what are you playing at with this PK? Unless you believe the rancid gravy was a poison that took 2 nights for effect (maybe a scum move), but then why wasn't there a 2NK anytime?

I tried to add some flair to the game, but I just ended up looking like an idiot.

My teacher's always used to say this during my elementary school report cards

"An good student, but is far too hasty and makes way too many unnecessary mistakes as a result"

 

[Verelios]

Bah, I forgot.

Gotta be less careless zzz.



I tried to add some flair to the game, but I just ended up looking like an idiot.

My teacher's always used to say this during my elementary school report cards

"An good student, but is far too hasty and makes way too many unnecessary mistakes as a result"

Point blank, gun to my head, I don't trust you.

 

[PK Gaming]

Point blank, gun to my head, I don't trust you.

And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

 

[Verelios]

And what exactly is that supposed to mean?

Did the euphemism escape you? I don't trust your antics.

 

[PK Gaming]

Did the euphemism escape you? I don't trust your antics.

Watch it

Whether you trust my antics or not, it doesn't change the fact that I was trying to add some levity to a thread that's been completely bereft of levity from the moment this game started.

 

[Verelios]

Watch it

Whether you trust my antics or not, it doesn't change the fact that I was trying to add some levity to a thread that's been completely bereft of levity from the moment this game started.

I'm confused, was this day in need of humor?

 

[PK Gaming]

I'm confused, was this day in need of humor?

No, but that's not the point.

Day in and day out, this thread has been nothing but speculation heaped on speculation and discussion. "I mean that's the point of the game right?" But the thing is, this thread has been nothing but that. There's been no room for jokes, no playful banter, discussions that aren't strictly related to the game or anything really. I might be out of line here, but it's 100% mafia 100% of the time and it legitimately feels exhausting. That's why I need to joke, I need to bring up sappy anecdotes about my life and throw in silly gifs; otherwise i'd go insane.

Nobody seems interested in actually talking to each other, beyond the scope of the game. There are so many (presumably Persona fans) here gathered in a single thread, and it honestly feels like a waste. I know that the game takes 100% priority, but is it really detrimental to both sides if we occasionally talked about things related to the series? Or even expectations for Persona 5.

That's my hot take anyway. It's 5:30 AM and I haven't even slept yet. RIP

 

[Verelios]

Nah, nah, nah

Something...there's something about you and that whole argument that I just don't trust. I smell something scummy in this work around. In the way you're deflecting conversation and trying to paint your posts away as levity. No, there's something more. I almost have the tail of it if nothing slips away.

You're too defensive...too garrulous when one line will do. What is it here? Covering your bases saying it's late? So it's late and you have a slip? Then wouldn't you not add in the time if it's truly a slip? No...explaining away your behavior? Possible. I can almost put my finger on why you're sending off so many alarm bells but if I had to pick one, you're too divorced from everything. If you wanted to discuss Persona then there's a gaming community one click away (which I lurk) for you to do so, which I'm very sure you're aware of. You're more than welcome to make fluff posts, god knows how many people love to, just don't say it's unfair when those posts are used against you.

So where does this leave us? I don't trust you and perhaps I'm mistaken. It's possible, I've been wrong before. But this time, there's just something about you PK that rankles me.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I need to catch up on posts, so maybe this was covered, but does anyone have any interesting thoughts on 11037?

I ask because he's been more active lately after being mostly a no-show early on, and seems to have flown under most radars as time has gone on (which is just never a good thing).

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Sorry for the late post
why the hell did you guys went for ex last night while BB is obviously scum
also star the fact that you're alive after role claiming for 2 nights is incredibly suspicious although i can see if the scum aren't NKing you so that we get suspicious and lynch you ourselves still my top scum is BB.
and welcome to the game Septimus and good luck.

I find it very curious that you chose to leave BlackBuzzard out of this despite remembering every single other poster, even those with little activity that hadn't checked in for the day like Matt Attack. Especially after you made a point to defend BlackBuzzard in the past and even mentioned him when listing who was gunning for exmachina. I also find it convenient you made sure to give him an excuse for his vote yet you keep trying to pin blame on me when I never cast a vote for exmachina.

BlackBuzzard seems to be high on everyone's list, yet we leave him alive.

Vote: BlackBuzzard

And no I'm not jumping on a bandwagon. Check my posts. I've been on him since at least day two (possibly earlier).

VOTE: Hyperactivity

Reading back through his posts I believe that Hyper is scum. Hyper has been a player who constantly shifts his vote around, and believed Fran was scum up until his death. Hyper has defended BlackBuzzad many times and has referred to him as a "Top Town Read". [URL="http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=226133333&postcount=1796]I find this post to be weird[/URL], I don't know why Hyper was speculating about a possible third party when there hasn't been anything to support it in the game. No double kills, nothing. This post feels like it was made two (in-game) days too late. It's information that I would have thought that everyone else would have already realised.

I'm also not sure how I feel about StarSketch. The fact that she has survived this far is suspicious but at the same time, with 9 players to investigate, she really only has an 11.1% chance of seeing someone make a kill (I'm presuming that only one mafia member makes the kill). As Plop has stated, I feel scum have left her alive just so that the town can do their job for them.

This strikes me as curious. You vote Hyper for siding with scummy BlackBuzzard rather than voting for scummy BlackBuzzard himself? Why?

I mean, Hyper is also on my scum list too, but lower than BlackBuzzard.

 

[Natiko]

I need to catch up on posts, so maybe this was covered, but does anyone have any interesting thoughts on 11037?

I ask because he's been more active lately after being mostly a no-show early on, and seems to have flown under most radars as time has gone on (which is just never a good thing).

I'm currently null on him, but more participation from him is a good sign in my opinion. Now if he starts making questionable votes that could change opinion real quick.

BlackBuzzard seems to be high on everyone's list, yet we leave him alive.

Vote: BlackBuzzard

And no I'm not jumping on a bandwagon. Check my posts. I've been on him since at least day two (possibly earlier).



This strikes me as curious. You vote Hyper for siding with scummy BlackBuzzard rather than voting for scummy BlackBuzzard himself? Why?

I mean, Hyper is also on my scum list too, but lower than BlackBuzzard.

I believe the idea is probably take cut the head off of the snake, a sentiment I can understand and would vote for even but it is risky. Hyper would be the best scum player left, taking him out could be really beneficial. If he flipped Town though it would basically mean full out chaos tomorrow because it would make us second guess if BlackBuzzard is scum and Star would be much more capable of setting an innocent person up to be lynched. Plus as time goes by Hyper is guaranteed to be lynched. Frankly if he lives two nights past this it's time to go 100%. I likely won't be alive to cast a helping vote though.

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

So I'm still stumped as to why Star or Vanguard aren't dead. I can see them choosing to spare one or the other, but not both. With Vanguard being confirmed town, that leaves Star looking scummy to me.

She's doing this "I'm so innocent I'll sacrifice myself to prove it" thing, which makes me wonder if all this suspicion is for nothing, but the fact that she's still here is troubling. Unless, of course, scum just wants us to lynch her for them. But would they risk leaving a PR townie alive on the chance that we might go after her?

What are the odds they tried to kill one but a healer saved them? Would we be informed of that by mods or is that not shared?

Because if she's alive and nobody tried to kill her...

After that, my suspicion is still on BlackBuzzard somewhat and Hyper (as well as Septimus because of who he replaced). I went into why yesterday and nothing has happened to change any of that yet.

I hope to Christ at least one of them is scum so I can turn the corner on how bad my reads have been as of late.

Can you answer my question please? I saw Natiko's explanation but I would like to hear it straight from the source.

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

Can you answer my question please? I saw Natiko's explanation but I would like to hear it straight from the source.

I've already explained it, and it doesn't go much deeper than he said "bus" and I thought it was a big "A-HA!" moment. He explained his error as not knowing "bus" was a scum term, which was the same excuse TheExodu5 used (plus I found a post where he responded to Sorian discussing Exodu5's misuse of the term).

It was the closing minutes of the day. It happened insanely fast. If I had more time, I'd like to think I wouldn't have done it. But I was so fucking sure he'd been caught in a slip up and I didn't want him to get away.

I wish I had a better excuse. But I don't. I just plain fucked up.

Vote: plop

Reasons coming soon I'm eating dinner

Now would you maybe elaborate on this?

I mean, I understand the vote if it's based on what happened with exmachina64, but you said you'd give reasons and I don't think you have yet.

 

[Natiko]

Obviously she's still eating dinner plop, damn give her some time to clear her plate.

Spoiler

Something something levity something hope you're happy PK

 

[CrimsonFist]

starsketch (2)
flatearthpandas 1776
starsketch 1787
natiko 1801 (1814)

plop (1)
wherearemahdragonz 1811

blackbuzzard (2)
natiko 1814
plop 1870

hyperactivity (1)
11037 1848

Day Ends:

Majority is 7

 

[Michael F. Assbender]

I'm currently null on him, but more participation from him is a good sign in my opinion. Now if he starts making questionable votes that could change opinion real quick.

I believe the idea is probably take cut the head off of the snake, a sentiment I can understand and would vote for even but it is risky. Hyper would be the best scum player left, taking him out could be really beneficial. If he flipped Town though it would basically mean full out chaos tomorrow because it would make us second guess if BlackBuzzard is scum and Star would be much more capable of setting an innocent person up to be lynched. Plus as time goes by Hyper is guaranteed to be lynched. Frankly if he lives two nights past this it's time to go 100%. I likely won't be alive to cast a helping vote though.

I'm wondering: why do you think you're near the top of the chopping block list? If it's based on activity, I'd put Verelios there with you, with myself not far behind. I'd say Hyper too, but he's been sporadic lately.

Just to be clear, I'm not asking for any kind of role claim. I just want to see where your head is at.

 

[Natiko]

I'm wondering: why do you think you're near the top of the chopping block list? If it's based on activity, I'd put Verelios there with you, with myself not far behind. I'd say Hyper too, but he's been sporadic lately.

Just to be clear, I'm not asking for any kind of role claim. I just want to see where your head is at.

I can't verify since I am on mobile but I believe I have the highest post count of all remaining living players, so that alone puts me on the short list of those likely to die. To couple with that Hyper was second of those alive last I saw and I doubt he will die as he's been at the top for awhile and for some reason he has never been killed. Verelios is the next most likely. His post count is a bit lower but I believe he has played in the past so he could be picked due to his extra experience. I doubt you will be picked as you're more likely than either myself or Verelios to be lynched during a day phase so they probably hope you'll be taken care of that way.

Basically I break it down like this:

- If Verelios or I die then my three likely scum remain my three likely scum (though hopefully one will be lynched by day end)

- If Hyper dies then maybe BlackBuzzard looks a bit less scummy. PK and/or plop could bump down to scum. I really, really doubt this happens though.

- If Vanguard dies while Star is alive she 100% needs to be lynched immediately as they'll have picked a vanilla Town over a claimed power role that could put them if she picks correctly. Also follow the below point right after that.

- If anyone else not mentioned dies then lynch Hyper. He's already planted the idea that they may pivot from their activity based kills. That will look very suspect if they do exactly that because it'll likely have been done as an excuse for Hyper to argue why they haven't night killed him.

 

[PK Gaming]

Nah, nah, nah

Something...there's something about you and that whole argument that I just don't trust. I smell something scummy in this work around. In the way you're deflecting conversation and trying to paint your posts away as levity. No, there's something more. I almost have the tail of it if nothing slips away.

You're too defensive...too garrulous when one line will do. What is it here? Covering your bases saying it's late? So it's late and you have a slip? Then wouldn't you not add in the time if it's truly a slip? No...explaining away your behavior? Possible. I can almost put my finger on why you're sending off so many alarm bells but if I had to pick one, you're too divorced from everything.

If you wanted to discuss Persona then there's a gaming community one click away (which I lurk) for you to do so, which I'm very sure you're aware of. You're more than welcome to make fluff posts, god knows how many people love to, just don't say it's unfair when those posts are used against you.

So where does this leave us? I don't trust you and perhaps I'm mistaken. It's possible, I've been wrong before. But this time, there's just something about you PK that rankles me.[/QUOTE]

It feels like we're completely talking past each other. But the bigger issue is that some of your conclusions are straight up off base.

Covering your bases saying it's late?

What could possibly give you that idea? I literally mentioned the time as an afterthought, because it was in 5:39 AM in the morning meaning I went straight to bed afterwards in order to at least get some sleep. Point to the exact part of the post where I used time as a justification for explaining away my behavior.

If you wanted to discuss Persona then there's a gaming community one click away (which I lurk) for you to do so, which I'm very sure you're aware of. You're more than welcome to make fluff posts, god knows how many people love to, just don't say it's unfair when those posts are used against you.

Enough with the condescension, please. I know damn well there's a Persona community thread, I've posted in literally all of them. And yet my point remains. With the exception of a few users, literally nobody in this thread frequents the community threads. So my interactions with the majority of the users in this thread are limited to playing Mafia. Which is disappointing, considering how fun (yet brief) the 2nd page was. I simply wanted more of that, in addition to the game we were playing.

 

[Verelios]

It feels like we're completely talking past each other. But the bigger issue is that some of your conclusions are straight up off base.

No, I don't believe we are PK. Truthfully it was late and I did say a bit more than I wanted to, but everything can be trimmed down to four words: I don't trust you. And that's okay, mafia is a game of trust and distrust.

What could possibly give you that idea? I literally mentioned the time as an afterthought, because it was in 5:39 AM in the morning meaning I went straight to bed afterwards in order to at least get some sleep. Point to the exact part of the post where I used time as a justification for explaining away my behavior.

Call it a stream of thought, with me wondering how to explain away your wording. There are 3 scum left out of 10. If we mishit once and there's a NK on town, then that's 3 left out of 8. If we mislynch for a second time and there's still a NK, we're 3/3 with scum. See these odds? I'm sure we've all thought of them, I have, so your suggestion comes off as quite...odd.

Enough with the condescension, please. I know damn well there's a Persona community thread, I've posted in literally all of them. And yet my point remains. With the exception of a few users, literally nobody in this thread frequents the community threads. So my interactions with the majority of the users in this thread are limited to playing Mafia. Which is disappointing, considering how fun (yet brief) the 2nd page was. I simply wanted more of that, in addition to the game we were playing.

Hey, hey, PK, come on, give me some more credit. Ask around for anyone's who's seen me play, I'm on my best behavior. I'm not sure why you thought my statement was condescending, it was an observation first and a reminder second. And yes, I've seen you in Persona community, which is why the reminder. It doesn't negate undermining scum hunting with fluff. What's your agenda?

 

[Hyperactivity]

I can't verify since I am on mobile but I believe I have the highest post count of all remaining living players, so that alone puts me on the short list of those likely to die. To couple with that Hyper was second of those alive last I saw and I doubt he will die as he's been at the top for awhile and for some reason he has never been killed. Verelios is the next most likely. His post count is a bit lower but I believe he has played in the past so he could be picked due to his extra experience. I doubt you will be picked as you're more likely than either myself or Verelios to be lynched during a day phase so they probably hope you'll be taken care of that way.

Basically I break it down like this:

- If Verelios or I die then my three likely scum remain my three likely scum (though hopefully one will be lynched by day end)

- If Hyper dies then maybe BlackBuzzard looks a bit less scummy. PK and/or plop could bump down to scum. I really, really doubt this happens though.

- If Vanguard dies while Star is alive she 100% needs to be lynched immediately as they'll have picked a vanilla Town over a claimed power role that could put them if she picks correctly. Also follow the below point right after that.

- If anyone else not mentioned dies then lynch Hyper. He's already planted the idea that they may pivot from their activity based kills. That will look very suspect if they do exactly that because it'll likely have been done as an excuse for Hyper to argue why they haven't night killed him.

2 issues with this:

1) Earlier in the day you proposed yourself or me being the likely candidates to die tonight, and now you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of in excusing your possible survival tomorrow

2) The bolded is so stupid, if I die and you guys are able to see that I'm definitely town, that doesn't somehow make my earlier reads of BlackBuzzard somehow true. BB is mostly a gut read for me, nowhere near, say, Verelios or FEP, for me, and me being town doesn't somehow preclude the possibility of BlackBuzzard being scum.

 

[Hyperactivity]

VOTE: Hyperactivity

Reading back through his posts I believe that Hyper is scum. Hyper has been a player who constantly shifts his vote around, and believed Fran was scum up until his death. Hyper has defended BlackBuzzad many times and has referred to him as a "Top Town Read". When did I admit I was voting for exmachina?

I seriously want you to think through this from the eyes of believeing I am scum and buddies with TheExodu5:

DAY END IS AT 3:00 PM

1:38 PM: The vote is tied:

exmachina64 (4)
hyperactivity
theexodu5
starsketch
ii-vanguard-ii

pk gaming (2)
plop
natiko

theexodu5 (4)
FEP
ty4on
exmachina65
pk gaming

2:16 PM: Flux votes pk gaming, PK Gaming (3)
2:25 PM: franconp votes exmachina64, exmachina64 (5)
2:27 PM: Hyperactivity votes TheExodu5 from exmachina64, TheExodu5 (5), exmachina64 (4)

If I'm TheExodu5's partner, I've just gone from putting his competition in the lead to putting him in the lead, simultaneously possibly helping the chances of a pile on for TheExodu5

2:34 PM: Hyperactivity votes exmachina64, TheExodu5 (4), exmachina64 (5)

This was done in response to a question asking if I meant to snipe the vote. I meant to clarify that I would be satisfied with either lynch and said as much

2:35 PM: Style votes exmachina64, exmachina64 (6)

STOP! If I'm TheExody5's partner, this is the PERFECT opportunity for me to stop vote flipping. Flux just voted PK, he evidently doesn't like either lynch. Sorian won't vote for a tie, so if the possibility comes up he'll act to avoid it. If I keep my vote right here, the exmachina64 lynch has a decent lead and safety. Instead....

2:36 PMHyperactivity votes TheExodu5, quoting Style's vote; exmachina64 (5), TheExodu5 (5)

I tie the vote again. Sorian, flux, and verelios were in the thread at this time and hadn't voted for either side, and I'm fairly certain no side wants a tie. I'm actively increasing the pressure, forcing players to break a tie so that we can possibly analyze which side they broke the tie for

2:37 PM: Sorian votes TheExodu5, TheExodu5 (6)



Confirmed townie has the same idea as me. Of course, if I really have the same idea as him, there's no tie currently, right? So....


2:52 PM: Hyperactivity unvotes, TheExodu5 (5), exmachina64 (5)

After some back and forth and discussion, it's clear the lack of a tie isn't helping my goal or Sorian's. So I create the tie situation again, trying to force everyone to pick a side so that their vote can be analyzed. And I show that yes indeed, I did have the same idea as Sorian (confirmed town), in forcing people to tiebreak the vote

2:57 PM: Hyperactivity votes PK Gaming, TheExodu5 (5), exmachina65 (5), PK Gaming (4)

Verelios isn't budging, so I mess around, try to see if adding a 3rd candidate might get a reaction.

2:58 PM: Hyperactivity makes this post


I want you to take a moment to consider the timestamp from this post (2:58 PM), the day end timestamp (3:00 PM), and GAF's 1 minute time limit in between posts. Now consider that 2:58 could well mean 2:58:50, etc.

I specifically take the time to try and avoid a situation where Sorian unvotes to avoid the tie (for example), and I vote TheExodu5 to create it again while trying to also avoid the tie. If I fuck this up, feel free to lynch me

2:59 PM: Flux budges and votes for TheExodu5, accomplishing the goal by giving us a HUGE town read for him. He could have saved his buddy at this point and he didn't, and by my pressuring I created a situation where I got a major town read for everyone and didn't save a scum (by keeping my vote on exmachina64)

3:00 PMHyperactivity votes for TheExodu5

I suppose you have no reason to believe it, so I'll try to give a really stark detail from the situation to try and make this sound more believable. After posting at 2:58 PM, I realized that I couldn't post my TheExodu5 prepared vote (I had posts ready for both of them btw), and I immediately went to refresh the timer. 23 seconds before I could post again, 35 seconds before the game timer hit 0.

What's more, as proof that I posted right at the beginning of the 3:00 minute, well, I made it before the day end post, didn't I? The next two timestamps are also at 3:00 PM, but my 3:00 timestamp post comes first.

So I'll need you to think to yourself: if you would've doubted two votes for TheExodu5 at 2:59 PM would likely have not been in made in reaction to the other, why would you think one made at the beginning of the 3:00 minute would be made in reaction to the other?

3:00 PM Sophia ends Day 1
3:00 PM Verelios budges and votes for TheExodu5

Go back a second

Read through pages 19 and 20 again.

Had I been partners with TheExodu5, I sealed his fate when I voted for him after the exmachina64 vote hit 6 people with Style. Had I kept my vote where it was, sure, maybe Sorian still votes for TheExodu5, but until we forced the hands of Flux and Verelios by keeping a tie in place to the very very last minute, both players had shown EXTREME reluctance to vote for either side. TheExodu5 would only have been lynched had someone from the exmachina64 side had switched and voted for TheExodu5

From the exmachina64 vote, starsketch and franconp both weren't present, theexodu5 wasn't about to switch. Style, il-vanguard-il, and Hyperactivity were the only 3 that could have switched the lynch from exmachina64 to TheExodu5 in that situation, and I feel safe in saying I'm the most likely town from that group in most people's eyes

Hell, il-vanguard-il last posted at 1:32 PM, I don't know if he was available, which would have brought it down to just Style and I.

EXCEPT, BECAUSE I AM TOWN, I make the move to try and force as many people as possible to vote. If TheExodu5 was my partner, I actively worked against his interests just then. He went from most likely surviving to it being closer to a 50/50 split. All for what? A better read on if someone might be town? How does that benefit scum?

So yeah, make your case for why I'm scum. Make your case for why my actions at the end of the day were suspicious and scummy

Good, maybe everyone should pick a side to help avoid the fuckery. I'm still on mobile, vote count please.

 

[Natiko]

2 issues with this:

1) Earlier in the day you proposed yourself or me being the likely candidates to die tonight, and now you're doing exactly what you're accusing me of in excusing your possible survival tomorrow

2) The bolded is so stupid, if I die and you guys are able to see that I'm definitely town, that doesn't somehow make my earlier reads of BlackBuzzard somehow true. BB is mostly a gut read for me, nowhere near, say, Verelios or FEP, for me, and me being town doesn't somehow preclude the possibility of BlackBuzzard being scum.

1) I was asked to outline my thoughts so I gave my opinions for each possible outcome. That does not mean I think they are all particularly likely though. I think Verelios or I have a far greater chance of being night killed right now than anyone else. If I thought you were Town I would rank you above Verelios and myself but I don't think you are. I'm not familiar enough with how much experience Verelios has in mafia so if it's just one game prior to this maybe that doesn't factor in and I get killed. If it's a bunch maybe they go for him first.

2) I know that, hence why I said "maybe a bit less scummy" and not "confirmed town". It does weaken some of the evidence against him, but it certainly doesn't remove all suspicion. Either plop or PK would have to shift scum at that point due to you flipping town, but if there was enough evidence for both of them being scum over BlackBuzzard then so be it.

I feel like you just took posts regarding theoretical situations and acted like I stated them as facts about the current situation instead. My vote remains on BlackBuzzard. I have explained why in multiple posts. Clearly I'm not sitting here trying to exhonerate him.

 

[Hyperactivity]

I find it very curious that you chose to leave BlackBuzzard out of this despite remembering every single other poster, even those with little activity that hadn't checked in for the day like Matt Attack. Especially after you made a point to defend BlackBuzzard in the past and even mentioned him when listing who was gunning for exmachina. I also find it convenient you made sure to give him an excuse for his vote yet you keep trying to pin blame on me when I never cast a vote for exmachina.

Vanguard and sketch are the last of the exmachina train from day 1.

FEP, PK, verelios (sorta?), and I remain from the theexodu5 vote.

Natiko, plop, verelios (sorta?), Matt attaxk, WAMD, blaxkbuzzard, and Septimius prime all voted for an alternative target.

Convenient posts to get on me about...

 

[PK Gaming]

No, I don't believe we are PK. Truthfully it was late and I did say a bit more than I wanted to, but everything can be trimmed down to four words: I don't trust you. And that's okay, mafia is a game of trust and distrust.

Fair.

Call it a stream of thought, with me wondering how to explain away your wording. There are 3 scum left out of 10. If we mishit once and there's a NK on town, then that's 3 left out of 8. If we mislynch for a second time and there's still a NK, we're 3/3 with scum. See these odds? I'm sure we've all thought of them, I have, so your suggestion comes off as quite...odd.

Why?

Hey, hey, PK, come on, give me some more credit. Ask around for anyone's who's seen me play, I'm on my best behavior. I'm not sure why you thought my statement was condescending, it was an observation first and a reminder second. And yes, I've seen you in Persona community, which is why the reminder. It doesn't negate undermining scum hunting with fluff. What's your agenda?

It's your tone, man. I don't have a problem with being distrusted but your posts towards me have just been layered with so much smug indignation. It's like you're the crime solving protagonist of some procedural show.

 

[Verelios]

Why?

I explained why. Given our situation saying you want more fluff is very odd.

It's your tone, man. I don't have a problem with being distrusted but your posts towards me have just been layered with so much smug indignation. It's like you're the crime solving protagonist of some procedural show.

Really? Well, maybe so, I can't assess my own tone. Then again, so what? You still didn't answer my question and you're deflecting. What's your agenda?

 

[Natiko]

Convenient posts to get on me about...

The fact that you just willingly pointed out that you mentioned him in previous posts (which I asserted in the very post you quoted) but said nothing in defense of the fact that you conveniently left him and only him off of your reads list is not a great look. That was kind of the entire point. You were fine with mentioning him in the context of other lists (who all voted for exmachina during the last day phase, who all voted for who during the first day phase) but then assigned no blame to him in either case and left him out of your reads is suspicious.

 

[PK Gaming]

I explained why. Given our situation saying you want more fluff is very odd.

Please stop misattributing what I say in order to apply more pressure. When on earth did I say I want more fluff? Again, It seems that you've completely misunderstand what I was going for in my post. It wasn't a call to change things, but mainly a post lamenting the direction the thread's gone in from day 1. And your assertion that this thread can't have both levity and serious discussion seems faulty, but I digress. As you've said, we're long passed the point where we can shift this thread's tone.

Really? Well, maybe so, I can't assess my own tone. Then again, so what? You still didn't answer my question and you're deflecting. What's your agenda?

Considering you'd very probably fire back with "classic PK!". I didn't see a point. Nonetheless, see above.

 

[StarSketch]

There is literally no agenda, calm the fuck down.

Honestly I like PK's goofing off.

 

[Verelios]

Please stop misattributing what I say in order to apply more pressure. When on earth did I say I want more fluff? Again, It seems that you've completely misunderstand what I was going for in my post. It wasn't a call to change things, but mainly a post lamenting the direction the thread's gone in from day 1. And your assertion that this thread can't have both levity and serious discussion seems faulty, but I digress. As you've said, we're long passed the point where we can shift this thread's tone.



Considering you'd very probably fire back with "classic PK!". I didn't see a point. Nonetheless, see above.

There is literally no agenda, calm the fuck down.

Honestly I like PK's goofing off.

Okay, okay, no problem. We seem to be going around in circles here...very interesting.

 

[Verelios]

Just one more thing...is that the extent of your observations this page Star? Okay, bad question. What do you think today?

 

[StarSketch]

Can we not panic vote again this day? I don't care if it's me, I don't care if it's Buzzard, but please for the love of god let's not suddenly flip out of fucking nowhere like we did yesterday.

 

[Natiko]

Can we not panic vote again this day? I don't care if it's me, I don't care if it's Buzzard, but please for the love of god let's not suddenly flip out of fucking nowhere like we did yesterday.

This is a sentiment we can agree on. Hopefully the half of us that don't even have a vote down make their opinion known soon. I'm sure there will be some shifting from there but I'd rather this not be decked by a single vote with only half of us participating at the last second again.

 

[Verelios]

Can we not panic vote again this day? I don't care if it's me, I don't care if it's Buzzard, but please for the love of god let's not suddenly flip out of fucking nowhere like we did yesterday.

Hmmmm

Hmmmmmmm

What an intriguing stance given yesterday's events

 

[Verelios]

That was a bit uncalled for, apologies. Everyone makes mistakes.

 

[StarSketch]

???????????

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

I've already explained it, and it doesn't go much deeper than he said "bus" and I thought it was a big "A-HA!" moment. He explained his error as not knowing "bus" was a scum term, which was the same excuse TheExodu5 used (plus I found a post where he responded to Sorian discussing Exodu5's misuse of the term).

It was the closing minutes of the day. It happened insanely fast. If I had more time, I'd like to think I wouldn't have done it. But I was so fucking sure he'd been caught in a slip up and I didn't want him to get away.

I wish I had a better excuse. But I don't. I just plain fucked up.



Now would you maybe elaborate on this?

I mean, I understand the vote if it's based on what happened with exmachina64, but you said you'd give reasons and I don't think you have yet.

Hi. When I made the vote I was mostly hoping for a response from you, but I didn't get one until recently. The vote is indeed based on the exmachina lynch and your behavior as of late. There's something off about it. It feels complacent and like you're telling us what we want to hear to cover your tracks.

Also I don't really understand the reasons you gave me,as I don't think they make much sense, so I am comfortable for voting for you right now.

 

[Natiko]

I would like to hear who everyone would pick as their three candidates for scum if they absolutely had to pick three. Somehow I doubt I'll get many answers but it's worth asking.

 

[flatearthpandas]

I dropped my tablet in its case like a foot and now it's all janky.

Anyway, reread last night. Honestly, quite enjoyed the reveal. I got punked by a town vig n1 the one time i got to be innocent child so cool to see it used.

And pk, you want to speculate about p5, you say??? I can accommodate.


On to relevant shit though.

Fran's visit by a vendor is very interesting to me. He had no reason to lie about it but no one else has any information on this at all apparently. Makes me doubt it's a neutral role Becca wise there seems to be no urgency in using it. Does it mean there is indeed a scum framer? We have no guarantees there even is another cop apart from Ty and a framer is kind of a dick move against a weak cop. Anyone got any ideas here?

I'm okay giving Star one more night. I guess. Her voting is total garbage and she ought to be dead but I guess results would be useful. Since scum ninja is gone, we can at least trust her results completely if she flips town. If she is alive tomorrow, she is basically default lynch though. See if scum really want to risk star hitting the NK just so we save them a kill by mislynch. We have twelve players left in the game, not ten. We have a bit of wiggle room but not much. I'm okay giving Star just this one night.

Leaving.... plop as a very acceptable target. The only person with a vote history as bad as star's. Black buzzard is a decent candidate as well. But bb is interesting. Obviously we had some tomfoolery yesterday. BB was leading the vote until the stupid bus thing with machine, which by the way was only a small red flag for exodu5 and even then because he's an old player in the community and really ought to have known. Star and plop size the opportunity to jump onto a clearly town vote and machina himself is the final idiotic cherry on the shit cake. Kind of. Natico is actually the last action of the day, unvoting to break the tie. Meanwhile bb is desperately trying to jump on that wagon. Breaking a tie is not inherently scummy but in this situation... isn't great. Natico was also leading the train against vanguard. Still, i wasn't even there so whatever. Not really feeling the natico lynch yet.

Votes against vanguard can interesting though. Kind of gives me a good feeling on bb looking at d1. He was part of the small movement against vanguard but eventually pops off to vote on style who was carrying about 5 votes at the time. Looks okay. Of course exodu5 was only a few posts ahead but bb stuck on the scum. Not great, but okay.

The bb train actually feels pretty safe when i look over it. Helps we know some people in it were town as well. That pivot from plop doesn't look good for him but there's a moment in the night where plop is calling out for more people and reads as shit is going crazy that actually struck me as pretty town. He was also previously sitting on zipped which is a fair enough vote imo (waiting to hear more from sept). I can kind of buy the excited townie bit and it does match up with his behavior d2.

Speaking of d2, there's only a bit of interest to really take away. Star ended the day early. Hyper tried to generate some discussion putting a vote on fran, who ends up being town. I do the same with Star who we don't know. Neither of us ends up actually voting. Actually, hyper and myself have both been pretty sluggish the last few days. I'm never really a big poster but i usually manage to make end of day and haven't been getting there this time. I know hyper has had stuff going on but this is a big difference in his posting style. We can just look back at d1 to see how much. And the thing is, I've had misgivings since d1. Now I actually love end of day voting shenanigans. I think they're great and appreciated that it happened. But causing them is not inherently town even though it can appear so when the vote swings scum. I haven't forgot for a moment that hyper was leaning exmachina. It doesn't escape me that while hyper ended up voting exodu5, he cast his vote after the fate was sealed. If hyper is scum, that is your typical by the numbers bus hidden behind voting shenanigans. Then as the active experienced players all bite it, hyper goes quiet and lets discussion stagnate. All inactive town, myself included, are culpable for allowing these last few days, but again hyper stands out because it is so far from how he usually plays the game and so much in his benefit should he be scum.

Also, neither Hyper nor Verelios voted yesterday and that is not cool. Both ought to know that that is the definition of being a totally useless member of the town. It is acceptable essentially only when there is a hammer.

Hyper, whether you be town or scum, I summon you. We need to liven this game the hell up.

Vote: Hyperactivity

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Im too tired for any of this, im coming off 12+ hour shifts so my brain is fried.

Ill just say this.

Why i think SS has not been killed even with her role claim? Simple she is not a threat to scum she is not influential and doesn't talk much, something all the other kills had in common, so even if she did use her power nobody would believe her. Scum is more then likely hoping we do the dirty work and lynch her.

Also why i voted Exmachina? He pissed me off i don't like people not reading rules and then outing my activity on Neogaf in this thread. Petty i know but i don't care.

 

[Natiko]

I can't disagree with too much that you said FEP. For the record, I told everyone before the vote flipping occurred that I wasn't going to let a no lynch happen because it would basically result in a skipped day. I also didn't want to vote for exmachina so I unvoted. I was clearly watching the vote so I didn't think purposefully allowing a tie was a good move for Town. If that was a bad call then sorry, but from reading those two past games I got the impression that no lynches are very frowned upon.

I do have another thing to follow up on - what is the significance of a scum framer and how would such a role have caused that pm to franconp? And why would it have only occurred once?