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[Coxy100]

I dont get why you guys dislike him so much, does he over promise? Yes and hes admitted as much. Whever ive listened to him in interviews hes always seemed just incredibly genuine. Its just videogames, some times you need to remember there are people behind them who get genuinley excited about what they are making. Can they use a better pr department? Absolutley. But i really dont feel that him or sean murray ever tried to rip us off. Merely got overly ambitious and were set back when they realized they could not do it all.

This is how I feel too. He might be a bit of a tool but the guy is a gaming legend. I have so much thanks to him and his teams for the games

 

[EVOL 100%]

Did Bryan Henderson, the player who was supposed to become the "god of gods" in Godus for finding the inside of the Curiosity cube, ever get his prize?

That was a real problem. The only thing to say is, Yes. You'll remember that Godus is a free-to-play game. And while 33,000 people are playing the game, 33,000 people aren't spending money on the game. So in terms of pure profit, actually Godus has not quite even broken even. We got Kickstarter money of about $1 million. After you're done with the pledging and all that stuff, that works out to about $400,000. But Godus cost about five times that to make. We really struggled, at times, to finish Godus. I'd love to pay Bryan money. It would be insane to do it just for a publicity stunt, because that's what it would be.

WHAT THE FUCK IS HE EVEN TALKING ABOUT

 

[Jetman]

When Sean Murray comes out of his self imposed black hole of exile and does another interview someone should ask him if he knows Molyneux

Spoiler

and if he knows his wife does

 

[Syntsui]

Who could tell one of the biggests hacks of the industry is so close to another one of the biggests hacks.

 

[Kucan]

I mean, he also says:


So, who knows?

There's a bit of a difference between most successful and most popular. The Trail may of been downloaded a lot, but since it's F2P it may not of got more profit than Theme Hospital.

 

[Ragnar Blackmane]

Molyneux, who swore he would never do an interview again, talks in an interview about No Man's Sky and how it failed in it's elevated promises while he himself tries to get more money for yet another of his projects. It couldn't be more ironic.

 

[Jigorath]

WHAT THE FUCK IS HE EVEN TALKING ABOUT

Godus was a flop.

So they never cut Henderson a piece of the profits.

 

[Darkstorne]

This is how I feel too. He might be a bit of a tool but the guy is a gaming legend. I have so much thanks to him and his teams for the games

I think it's a generational thing, and a console gamer thing. The man is a living legend who absolutely deserved all the awards he's received. He created an entire genre. Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, Populous, Magic Carpet, Syndicate, I mean... holy crap that is a huge list of industry defining games and anyone who doesn't respect that really shouldn't have an opinion on the guy.

Trouble is that ever since Fable his personal hype has never been fully realized in his games, and if he couldn't keep a lid on talking about features that were still in development (NOT lies, and anyone who says they are has no idea how game development works) then he should have simply designated someone else to manage the PR. I can understand why that never happened, and I think there's a good chance that even if he could go back in time and suggest the idea to Microsoft they'd refuse and make sure he stays as the figure head because of his fame. I've often assumed his team struggled to adapt to PS360 hardware onwards as much as many Japanese dev teams did. May well have been down to the way he ran his ship, focusing too much on open creativity and not enough on rigidly adhering to a design doc, which would also make a smaller team focusing on mobile a much better fit for him these days.

 

[Northeastmonk]

Looks like it's something in between, per Polygon's article:

Thanks. good article.. they could have said, " instead of a boy, let's make it a grown up". It's a great idea, but sounded like they were still in a very early stage of getting it to work like we'd all want it to. I personally would not have wanted a virtual boy as a game with that tech.

From the article,

"I'd describe Milo & Kate as a development experiment that somehow found itself in full production," says another team member. "In all honesty it really was trying to be something new and different, and there were certainly some cool and compelling aspects to it. However as a project it always lacked strong direction and clear vision ... it was basically confused, and never quite solidified into something everyone was comfortable with."

 

[LewieP]

NOT lies, and anyone who says they are has no idea how game development works

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGy2kQ8x5F8&feature=youtu.be&t=3m38s

 

[Perineum]

So much makes sense about Sean now. 2 miles away, friends with his wife, etc.

Mini Peter.

Literally the two most disliked game devs I can think of live 2 miles away from each other. Both did the same PR bs to make me hate their guts.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Yes. I said at the end of that interview, the best thing I could do is never talk to the press again. I think if I could do it again, I'd redefine that. Never is a very long time.

2 years must have felt like an eternity to this guy but he has thick skin and motivation unlike Phil Fish.

 

[Fried Food]

I need to read that RPS interview again. Not because Peter got "owned", just because it was so intense.

 

[Sulik2]

Godus costing 2 million to make sounds insane.

Its really not. Just do the math on salaries alone for two to three years of development. Then insurance, business taxes, office expenses. Two million is honestly a tiny amount of money for making a decent sized game.

 

[Darkstorne]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGy2kQ8x5F8&feature=youtu.be&t=3m38s

Yes, because that's exactly what everyone means when they say Molyneux always lies about what you can do in his games. /s

Everything pre-360, on PC, was industry defining. Everything from the 360 onwards seemed to struggle, and his design process didn't mesh with large teams and modern hardware. That's my theory at least. He's way too focused on the creative side of development, much the same way Square were too focused on art and assets during the 360 cycle. Lack of focus (and his inability to keep quiet about game mechanics that weren't finalised) really screwed his record over.

 

[Rollo Tomasi]

Interesting to hear he may have regrets about selling Bullfrog to EA.

 

[Sinatar]

We really struggled, at times, to finish Godus.

"Struggled" past tense? The game still isn't finished.

 

[spineduke]

Yes, because that's exactly what everyone means when they say Molyneux always lies about what you can do in his games. /s

Everything pre-360, on PC, was industry defining. Everything from the 360 onwards seemed to struggle, and his design process didn't mesh with large teams and modern hardware. That's my theory at least. He's way too focused on the creative side of development, much the same way Square were too focused on art and assets during the 360 cycle. Lack of focus (and his inability to keep quiet about game mechanics that weren't finalised) really screwed his record over.

I have an old article in PC Zone where he talked about impressing some mayor person or VIP with a demo of B&W will non-existant features (hand motion glove controls) for the sake of impressing him. He knows exactly what he's doing, he's just not used to people calling him out on it.

 

[Alienous]

That connects a little bit to Milo, a virtual character you created that was never released for Kinect.

Peter Molyneux: Yes, it does. Milo was an incredible piece of technology. You could draw something on a piece of paper, and then Milo would look at it, recognize it, and show it back to you. It was magical. He could recognize numbers, and letters, and shapes.

He really can't help himself.

 

[WarRock]

I think it's a generational thing, and a console gamer thing.

I'm sorry, but what?

Trouble is that ever since Fable his personal hype has never been fully realized in his games, and if he couldn't keep a lid on talking about features that were still in development (NOT lies, and anyone who says they are has no idea how game development works) then he should have simply designated someone else to manage the PR. I can understand why that never happened, and I think there's a good chance that even if he could go back in time and suggest the idea to Microsoft they'd refuse and make sure he stays as the figure head because of his fame.

From the RPS interview:

Peter Molyneux: No, I’m not blaming the press at all, I’m not blaming the press at all. I was held to account. I didn’t announce that I was withdrawing myself, I just withdrew myself. Everybody said, ‘oh, you keep overpromising, you keep overpromising,’ and I said right, OK, fine. My answer to this– I have the sort of personality that finds it very, very difficult when faced with members of the press, and talking about my game, to be, not to get excited. I’ve tried to do that. I tried to do that at Microsoft and I had an army of PR people trying to suppress me but it’s very difficult in my personality. So my answer was a year ago, well, I’m going to stop. I’ll just quietly withdraw and that’s what I’ve done. And I just feel like doing it more, because if it means that people don’t hound me, and I have been hounded.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Everything pre-360, on PC, was industry defining. Everything from the 360 onwards seemed to struggle, and his design process didn't mesh with large teams and modern hardware. That's my theory at least. He's way too focused on the creative side of development, much the same way Square were too focused on art and assets during the 360 cycle. Lack of focus (and his inability to keep quiet about game mechanics that weren't finalised) really screwed his record over.

Yeah I think part of it is that early on when he was the lone designer and, in some cases like Populous, the lead (or only?) programmer, he couldn't dream bigger than his own capabilities. He was inherently limited. With the advent of 3D, the money publishers offered him, and the size of his teams, he started thinking bigger than was possible because he didn't have to do it himself anymore. "This is a good idea, I'm sure the team can do it". And for whatever reason (money, time, capability), they often couldn't. That he is programming again and working within his own limitations is probably the best thing for him.

 

[bunbun777]

We need a shop of them hugging and both looking at memento Polaroids at the same time.

 

[Tranqueris]

Yes, it does. Milo was an incredible piece of technology. You could draw something on a piece of paper, and then Milo would look at it, recognize it, and show it back to you. It was magical. He could recognize numbers, and letters, and shapes.

How I read this in my mind.

Yes, it does. Milo was a big league piece of technology. You could draw something on a piece of paper, and then Milo would look at it, recognize it, and show it back to you. Many, many people were saying it was magical. He could recognize numbers, and letters, and shapes. It's gonna be tremendous, when Milo finally comes out it's gonna change your life, believe me.

 

[Mechanized]

Oh thank god a Milo update.

 

[Falk]

Polygon's Article on the story behind Milo is a fascinating read. It might have ultimately been a bunch of tech demos in search of a broader game, but they had over 80 people working on it for years; it wasn't just a smoke a mirrors cobbled together E3 video a lot of people seem to assume it was. And that's not to say it all worked as advertised, just that they were actively in development trying to get it all to work.

The big problem I had with Milo, and the big problem I have today, is that regardless of what was or wasn't achieved, the public showings pretty much were a lot of smoke and mirrors.

Heck, even the entirety of this video:

has Milo framed as looking 'off to the right' to present the viewer a fake impression that he's looking towards his object of interest in the actual world. Perspective doesn't work like that. It's as much of an insult to intelligence as advertisements like this wanting you to believe it features actual living human subjects that are apparently too stupid to tell the difference between a hole and a bunch screen based on hints like depth perception and perspective, notwitstanding the footage presented shows different images on the screens based on the angle.

Sure, people may have been working on it, but the presentation itself alone already is deceptive enough even if it worked. Which really is topical about Molyneux as a whole. He's there to sell a vision, and he often dreams bigger than is practical. While that approach did result in games like Theme Park, Populous and Dungeon Keeper, it's also become a little bit of a rote that people have latched on to in more recent years.

What is so outlandish about Milo recognizing numbers, and letters, and shapes?
Doesn't sound at all far fetched to me.

Let's just distill this to a very simple practical problem. Even assuming recognition is possible, Milo's going to need a voice line for everything he sees. That's either going to be an absurd/impractical amount of VA work, or simply a case of a manageable list of vocabulary, asserted by something along the lines of "I don't recognize this", which you'd then hear all too often.

 

[Yukinari]

Since nobody has posted it yet.

Still appropriate as ever. Wish Fable didnt have to turn worse and worse.

What ever happened to the winner of Godus?

Curious about this too cause its scummy what happened.

 

[Flintty]

I like Peter, he's an interesting personality. I want to be thankful to him for his work but really, it's all about Fable for me and that was thought up by the Carter brothers (Big Blue Box) and when I think about what he's done for me the answer is 'a dog in Fable 2' and 'holding hands' in Fable 3.

He doesn't deserve the hate he gets though.

 

[InaudibleWhispa]

Let's just distill this to a very simple practical problem. Even assuming recognition is possible, Milo's going to need a voice line for everything he sees. That's either going to be an absurd/impractical amount of VA work, or simply a case of a manageable list of vocabulary, asserted by something along the lines of "I don't recognize this", which you'd then hear all too often.

Based on the article, he wasn't capable of recognising any image. He asked the player to draw a specific image "Draw me a boat" and then he just had to tell if the player complied with his request or not. And you're right, that E3 demo was staged, they also talk about that (and why) in the article.

 

[ALLseeingEYE]

Godus costing 2 million to make sounds insane.

What the shit? I'm guessing you have no concept of how much money, time, and manpower it takes to create a game.


A bit of quick math:

2,000,000 divided by $80,000 = 25 employees per year


On the outside, $2,000,000 seems like a ton of money, but even when you pay your employees modest salaries, you still have a lot of overhead as a company. Consider then, how long godus took to create, you could basically employ 12.5 people for 2 years, and if development drags on, like it did for godus, your budget just gets thinner and thinner.

A very common dev budget for quality indie titles these days, is about $5,000,000.

 

[Spieler Eins]

I dont get why you guys dislike him so much, does he over promise? Yes and hes admitted as much. Whever ive listened to him in interviews hes always seemed just incredibly genuine. Its just videogames, some times you need to remember there are people behind them who get genuinley excited about what they are making. Can they use a better pr department? Absolutley. But i really dont feel that him or sean murray ever tried to rip us off. Merely got overly ambitious and were set back when they realized they could not do it all.

Because when he went to take kickstarter money and promise that fake cube-game prize, he turned from "once gaming pioneer who's lost touch" to straight up scam artist.

 

[Lucinice]

Trouble is that ever since Fable his personal hype has never been fully realized in his games, and if he couldn't keep a lid on talking about features that were still in development (NOT lies, and anyone who says they are has no idea how game development works)

No it's well documented at this point by ex lionhead devs that Peter Molyneux would make up features that no one else knew about.

Here read this article
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-12-lionhead-the-inside-story

 

[arigato]

I think it's a generational thing, and a console gamer thing. The man is a living legend who absolutely deserved all the awards he's received. He created an entire genre. Theme Park, Dungeon Keeper, Black and White, Populous, Magic Carpet, Syndicate, I mean... holy crap that is a huge list of industry defining games and anyone who doesn't respect that really shouldn't have an opinion on the guy.

Trouble is that ever since Fable his personal hype has never been fully realized in his games, and if he couldn't keep a lid on talking about features that were still in development (NOT lies, and anyone who says they are has no idea how game development works) then he should have simply designated someone else to manage the PR. I can understand why that never happened, and I think there's a good chance that even if he could go back in time and suggest the idea to Microsoft they'd refuse and make sure he stays as the figure head because of his fame. I've often assumed his team struggled to adapt to PS360 hardware onwards as much as many Japanese dev teams did. May well have been down to the way he ran his ship, focusing too much on open creativity and not enough on rigidly adhering to a design doc, which would also make a smaller team focusing on mobile a much better fit for him these days.

The Fable trilogy despite their flaws I truly enjoyed playing through them. Unfortunately, this world is rotten and so fully realizing all the potential would've been very difficult.

 

[Death Penalty]

A lot of folks seem really willing to be drawn in by the personality that Molyneux is putting forth. I can accept that he was once successful with great games under his belt but can also now be a washed-up liar who uses false advertising to gain traction. The best case scenario here is that by excusing him you're enabling him to continue a pattern of behavior that's not even to his own benefit anymore. Not only is all this backlash warranted, I hope it genuinely helps him mend his ways.

 

[jesu]

Let's just distill this to a very simple practical problem. Even assuming recognition is possible, Milo's going to need a voice line for everything he sees. That's either going to be an absurd/impractical amount of VA work, or simply a case of a manageable list of vocabulary, asserted by something along the lines of "I don't recognize this", which you'd then hear all too often.

But he only mentioned letter, numbers and shapes.
That's not a lot of voice work.
He never said Milo would recognize everything you showed him.

 

[GankzyMcfly]

I for one am shocked that Sean and Peter are best buddies.

 

[KaufLive]

You could draw something on a piece of paper, and then Milo would look at it, recognize it, and show it back to you. It was magical. He could recognize numbers, and letters, and shapes.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Don't care one whit what he says

 

[TheSpoiler]

Even today, people will still defend him.

I don't care if you created genres, crafted great stories and games, and submitted titles that will be revered for years to come. If you keep fucking up, lying, and putting people through the ringer, that goodwill gets used up. It's not endless, and nobody should expect to just be okay with some dude who uses excuses like "I'm passionate" to forgo things like not giving the prize money to the kid who won Godus.

 

[ZeoVGM]

OMG

Can't believe they just asked this like that.

Neither can I.

Because it isn't what happened. It had nothing to do with "living up to our fantasies" and everything to do with the developers literally lying to consumers.

 

[Coxy100]

Even today, people will still defend him.

I don't care if you created genres, crafted great stories and games, and submitted titles that will be revered for years to come. If you keep fucking up, lying, and putting people through the ringer, that goodwill gets used up. It's not endless, and nobody should expect to just be okay with some dude who uses excuses like "I'm passionate" to forgo things like not giving the prize money to the kid who won Godus.

People defend him (like me) because he made incredible games once. Games that I was obsessed with as a kid.

People don't defend him for the shit like Godus.

 

[Gator86]

Of course he's friends with Sean Murray. I wonder if he's proud or jealous that the student has become the teacher. Even Molyneux didn't ask potential buyers not to read reviews or pre-release press because it would ruin a non-existent surprise.

 

[joeblow]

Wait, he was responsible for the Theme series? Though it was a shame theme park was more successful than Theme Hospital.

Just like real life, why wouldn't more people enjoy a sim theme park over a sim hospital?

 

[TheSpoiler]

People defend him (like me) because he made incredible games once. Games that I was obsessed with as a kid.

People don't defend him for the shit like Godus.

Well, going by the dude you quoted earlier in this page, seems like that shit is like water under the bridge.

Which is fine. If you personally don't give a shit about that stuff, that's cool. Capcom fucks up a lot and I still respect them. I just don't believe other people have to do the same.

Plus, people in this topic, and in general, talk about his latest "achievements". That's where the conversation is at these days, and it's all brought upon by him. Can't really fault people for doing that, especially when the interview mentions those failings and his inability to admit to them beyond "I'm very passionate!"

 

[Easy_D]

"I think it would be a mistake to talk about it."

Says.. a lot actually.

Edit: In that he hasn't understood why it's a problem, just that it is.

 

[JetSetRadio]

What the shit? I'm guessing you have no concept of how much money, time, and manpower it takes to create a game.


A bit of quick math:

2,000,000 divided by $80,000 = 25 employees per year


On the outside, $2,000,000 seems like a ton of money, but even when you pay your employees modest salaries, you still have a lot of overhead as a company. Consider then, how long godus took to create, you could basically employ 12.5 people for 2 years, and if development drags on, like it did for godus, your budget just gets thinner and thinner.

A very common dev budget for quality indie titles these days, is about $5,000,000.

80k? Yikes.

 

[Hippolnareff]

Perhaps someone should investigate the water there.

Absolutely. He lives two miles away from me. I worked with his wife on all three of the Fable games, incredibly closely.

"Hey, Sean. There's a guy I work with that says his game is going to do these amazing things but here's the catch, they never do!"

"Hmmmm...."

 

[twisted89]

Oh God it's back, kill it with fire!

 

[The Cartographer]

It's about time we reboot Molyneux.

 

[jroc74]

Perhaps someone should investigate the water there.

Who could tell one of the biggests hacks of the industry is so close to another one of the biggests hacks.

I was thinking the connection between those 2 is ironic with the controversy with NMS.

 

[elyetis]

No Man's Sky, like some of your games, didn't live up to our fantasies about it.

They are very nice with their wording. People didn't have those expectation out of thin air, they were not fantasies, they were announced feature and people were not even sure if it was or not in the game but just not working after the release. Heck as of now I don't even think we know if some of it is even planned in futur content patch.