Petition for Electors to elect Hillary Clinton

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Veelk said:
Except for the option we have.

I know that it's dangerous, but I say we have to atleast consider it.

With this, democracy is put to question. With Trump, Democracy is put on death row.
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This isn't an option. It's pure fantasy. I was in Miami in 2000 when the Supreme Court handed the presidency to George W. Bush and we took to the streets for months and begged electors not to vote for him. I watched in dismay as the congressional black caucus protested the results on the house floor and were ignored by their fellow congressmen.

You will never, ever get enough electors if any at all to switch votes. This is a waste of time and energy. I'm sorry, I don't like it any more than you do.
 
Jarmel said:
This is a fundamental part of the American government that the founders, that the Republicans love to give oral blowjobs to, established for scenarios exactly like this.

The founders didn't trust the general public to not be dumbasses and they were right.
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Have fun explaining that to the 59 million people whose votes were essentially voided out in this scenario. Not exactly sure a historical discussion about the purpose of the electoral college is going to prevent the chaos that would ensue.
 
geomon said:
This isn't an option. It's pure fantasy. I was in Miami in 2000 when the Supreme Court handed the presidency to George W. Bush and we took to the streets for months and begged electors not to vote for him. I watched in dismay as the congressional black caucus protested the results on the house floor and were ignored by their fellow congressmen.

You will never, ever get enough electors if any at all to switch votes. This is a waste of time and energy. I'm sorry, I don't like it any more than you do.
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I don't mind wasting energy on the only longshot we have to prevent disaster.
 
Cobalt Izuna said:
Okay, imagine if it was breaking news that 13 states were up for another vote, including some swing states etc. and it was due to provable fraud. Would America be okay with that?
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Youd have to redo the whole vote for all 50 states. It violates peoples Constitutional rights to have some peoples votes count more than others.
 
Azure Dream said:
And yet, that's what our current President-Elect advocated just four years ago.
tYZhpaB.jpg


These tweets are real. Some of them were deleted, but not all, and you can find them word-for-word by using Twitter's Advanced Search. (Unless they've been deleted since I checked last night.) Here's a link to one example: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082 Here's another from the above image: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034957875544064

Just four years ago he was telling people to march on Washington and how the Electoral College system was a disgrace to democracy, but now the hypocrite is happy to barely make his way into the Oval Office because of it. Four years ago it was trash and an abomination, and how shameful it was anyone could get elected without the popular vote, but now that he's the winner, suddenly it's a-ok. Our president-elect, just four years ago, venomously decried the very system that gave him his win this week.

(And for the record, it turned out Obama won the popular vote as well.)
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Go with the excuse that you're following the president-elect's own advice, I guess.
 
Hollywood Duo said:
Youd have to redo the whole vote for all 50 states. It violates peoples Constitutional rights to have some peoples votes count more than others.
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How so? Considering that the Electoral College is currently set up to do exactly that--give votes from rural areas disproportionate say and effect over the outcome. The entire concept of the EC is making some votes count more than others and that's baked into the Constitution, so this clearly is not the case with the way things stand. The Constitution itself cannot be unconstitutional by pure definition.
 
geomon said:
This isn't an option. It's pure fantasy. I was in Miami in 2000 when the Supreme Court handed the presidency to George W. Bush and we took to the streets for months and begged electors not to vote for him. I watched in dismay as the congressional black caucus protested the results on the house floor and were ignored by their fellow congressmen.

You will never, ever get enough electors if any at all to switch votes. This is a waste of time and energy. I'm sorry, I don't like it any more than you do.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying it's gonna happen.

I'm just saying it should happen. More than when GWB was elected. Say what you want about GWB, but he was atleast a person who knew the workings of government and wasn't a sociopath.

There is NO ONE in history of presidents that remotely compares to Donald Trump and I want us to stop pretending there is. Which is why more than any other time, now is when the elector's should exercise their ability to be unfaithful.

But it's not going to happen, I agree. Because fuck everything.
 
This has been pointed out multiple times. If everybody knew going in that we were going to use the national popular vote to elect the president rather than the electoral college, this election would have looked much different. The campaigns and voter turnout would have been different. Hillary didn't "win" anything.
 
ShironRedshift said:
How so? Considering that the Electoral College is currently set up to do exactly that--give votes from rural areas disproportionate say and effect over the outcome. The entire concept of the EC is making some votes count more than others and that's baked into the Constitution, so this clearly is not the case with the way things stand.
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14th amendment. Peoples votes have to count the same or else we could go back to the old days and say black peoples vote only counts 3/5 of a white person.

Edit: im special specifically referencing the idea of certain states getting a revote.
 
The Popular Vote doesn't matter in this equation. The electors are supposed to decide whether a particular individual would actively harm America. That has nothing to do with the Popular Vote.
 
Jarmel said:
And yet Republicans argue the Constitution isn't a living document.
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Do you agree with the Republicans?

For almost all Americans, the EC is there to give states "voting points". Every once in a while there is a faithless elector, but that's just some quirk and it never changes anything.

To say 70+ electors should vote in a way other than the "rules" as understood by the players, is to invite trouble and cast immense shadows of democratic illegitimacy over your candidate.
 
Veelk said:
I'm not saying it's gonna happen.

I'm just saying it should happen. More than when GWB was elected. Say what you want about GWB, but he was atleast a person who knew the workings of government and wasn't a sociopath.

There is NO ONE in history of presidents that remotely compares to Donald Trump and I want us to stop pretending there is. Which is why more than any other time, now is when the elector's should exercise their ability to be unfaithful.

But it's not going to happen, I agree. Because fuck everything.
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It shouldn't, and it would set a very horrible precedent for EVERY election going forward. What if next time a Democrat barely scrapes by and a Republican manages to get a fraction of a % popular vote lead? They would be totally within their rights under this logic to demand the Electors vote a different way.

Bush in 04 was pretty fuckin bad too. We survived it, we'll survive this. In the meantime get involved with your government on the local level. That's how shit really changes, not on an internet forum.
 
RedHill said:
The result America wants*

I'd rather set a bad precedent than have a bad president. If you aren't a minority though I understand not caring how dangerous this is
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This is the same kind of thought that gives way to coups and dictators. You live in a democracy. People who voted Trump wanted a change. He can't do anything illegal. Trust your institutions. Trust the GOP. Yes, they are conservatives. But that doesn't make them bad, unamerican or dangerous to democracy.

Don't cry wolf. Trump hasn't actually done anything yet.

In my country the left did actually cried wolf. They said between 1998 and 2002 that the right wing government undermines the rule of law. They didn't. But when they came back to power in 2010, they began doing that. And they could, because their electorate didn't believe the left.

So don't cry, whine while anticipating at every turn that something bad happens. Don't look at it from the position of inherent distrust. Talk to Republicans, tell them that you hope Trump will succeed. Build up cred with them. Then when something is concerns you, something in particular tell them.

America doesn't work not because of the politicans, but because its people believe their candidate, their president more than their fellow countrymen. Because they don't listen to each other concerns, just if it aligns with their partisan belief.

But you're a great country. And maybe you chose the wrong person, but I was heartened by how gracefully Hillary Clinton accepted defeat and President Obama got behind Trump. This is the attitute that makes America great.

During our last election the opposition didn't even concede. Don't go in our way. Respect democracy.
 
Hollywood Duo said:
14th amendment. Peoples votes have to count the same or else we could go back to the old days and say black peoples vote only counts 3/5 of a white person.
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Nope. Can't do that. You can't challenge the Constitution itself in court, only state or federal laws. Using one part of the Constitution to trump another makes no sense because how do you decide it's not the other way around and it's the EC that trumps and invalidates the 14th? The two may contradict, but they're nonetheless simultaneously both true because they're both part of the Constitution and no part of the Constitution takes precedent over any others (save amendments like the 21st which directly repealed other amendments). If two amendments contradict, then the only way to resolve that would be another amendment to further clarify. Failing that, they both stand even if that makes no sense.
 
Hawk Fan said:
This has been pointed out multiple times. If everybody knew going in that we were going to use the national popular vote to elect the president rather than the electoral college, this election would have looked much different. The campaigns and voter turnout would have been different. Hillary didn't "win" anything.
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Yup. There are millions of Democrats in states like Texas who stay home and millions of Republicans in states like California or New York who stay home due the fact that they know which way their state is already going.

The popular vote would look much different without the EC.
 
Jarmel said:
The Popular Vote doesn't matter in this equation. The electors are supposed to decide whether a particular individual would actively harm America. That has nothing to do with the Popular Vote.
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That may be the case, but the popular vote keeps getting brought up as justification for not accepting the outcome. It is a bad argument.
 
Jarmel said:
The Popular Vote doesn't matter in this equation. The electors are supposed to decide whether a particular individual would actively harm America. That has nothing to do with the Popular Vote.
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That much I can agree on.

The exact numbers of the vote is irrelevant, since the election was never about playing for a popular vote. If it was, we can't say for certain that we know what the results might have been anyways. It's ultimately a poor argument that doesn't hold much water. The demagogue argument holds more water, but again ultimately I'm not sure that it holds enough water.
 
ShironRedshift said:
Nope. Can't do that. You can't challenge the Constitution itself in court, only state or federal laws. Using one part of the Constitution to trump another makes no sense because how do you decide it's not the other way around and it's the EC that trumps and invalidates the 14th? The two may contradict, but they're nonetheless simultaneously both true because they're both part of the Constitution and no part of the Constitution takes precedent over any others (save amendments like the 21st which directly repealed other amendments). If two amendments contradict, then the only way to resolve that would be another amendment to further clarify. Failing that, they both stand even if that makes no sense.
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I think you are missing the point. Im not even talking about the electoral college. I was responding to the other guy who was asking about revotes due to proven voter fraud.
 
It seems like this would be a bad idea for a couple reasons.

1) The hypocrisy of us trying to encourage the democratic process worldwide and ensure fair elections when we rig our own. This would surely call into question the legitimacy of our own president worldwide.

2) Even if there was no violence or bloodshed, I'm not sure setting the precedent that whichever party has the most seats in the legislature could potentially just pick their guy to be president regardless of the election by flipping a couple electoral votes.

As for getting rid of the electoral college; there is a lot of call for it now, but what if it turns out that the Republicans can turn out more voters on a regular basis? We've never had a no holds barred head count. It may be that the Republicans can motivate more people to vote than the Democrats. Be careful what you ask for. As it stands now we have a pretty even balance as far as the EC system goes. If that's upended it might not turn out how you think.
 
Azure Dream said:
And yet, that's what our current President-Elect advocated just four years ago.
tYZhpaB.jpg


These tweets are real. Some of them were deleted, but not all, and you can find them word-for-word by using Twitter's Advanced Search. (Unless they've been deleted since I checked last night.) Here's a link to one example: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266038556504494082 Here's another from the above image: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/266034957875544064

Just four years ago he was telling people to march on Washington and how the Electoral College system was a disgrace to democracy, but now the hypocrite is happy to barely make his way into the Oval Office because of it. Four years ago it was trash and an abomination, and how shameful it was anyone could get elected without the popular vote, but now that he's the winner, suddenly it's a-ok. Our president-elect, just four years ago, venomously decried the very system that gave him his win this week.

(And for the record, it turned out Obama won the popular vote as well.)
Click to expand...

Maybe this is evidence that those who are protesting his victory are more in line with his thinking than they realize.
 
mid83 said:
Yup. There are millions of Democrats in states like Texas who stay home and millions of Republicans in states like California or New York who stay home due the fact that they know which way their state is already going.

The popular vote would look much different without the EC.
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And a handful of states would decide the election themselves due to how lopsided population is in some of them. What incentive does anybody have to give a shit about Maine's 1.3 million population when they won't even move the needle compared to California, Texas, New York or Florida? I'd spend all my time in the top 10 states by population and say fuck the rest, because why not?

There is no perfect system with a country as large as ours. We have states that practically nobody lives in, and we also have some of the largest trade and information hubs in the world.
 
I'm not going to lie I signed it. I don't care if it goes nowhere I do think the EC is in need of some type of change because for a lot of people their votes don't matter. This is because of the two party system. States that are usually red or blue make it to where the opposite vote doesn't matter.

I live in Tennessee and I do feel like my vote did not matter. I have just as much problem with the two party system as the Ec and both should go away to actually make votes matter and make people think about their votes.

I also blame the always red or blue states for voter suppression because of the fact people will feel like their votes don't matter so they won't vote.
 
This would create a war. The electors will not do this. The Electoral College exists to help prevent major population centers from having too much control on lower populated states.

Not to correct the voter's mistakes.
 
Phased said:
It shouldn't, and it would set a very horrible precedent for EVERY election going forward. What if next time a Democrat barely scrapes by and a Republican manages to get a fraction of a % popular vote lead? They would be totally within their rights under this logic to demand the Electors vote a different way.

Bush in 04 was pretty fuckin bad too. We survived it, we'll survive this. In the meantime get involved with your government on the local level. That's how shit really changes, not on an internet forum.
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Veelk said:
There is NO ONE in history of presidents that remotely compares to Donald Trump and I want us to stop pretending there is. Which is why more than any other time, now is when the elector's should exercise their ability to be unfaithful.
Click to expand...

Fuck comparing this to Bush, fuck comparing this to anyone.

I would rather see a new, potentially damaging precedent established (more likely, I think, is that it would just get bipartisan support to have the rules of election changed, so it wouldn't be an issue outside this election, but even if it remained...) and risk future elections than to pass on this one, which I have absolute certainty will be disastrous for our country beyond all measures. I agree, it's a solution that comes with a heavy cost. But it's one I'm willing to pay.

Climate change being what it is alone puts the world...not just america, but literally the entire planet...in crisis....I don't care how it gets done, we cannot have a climate change denier in charge. And that's just climate change. You think this will put our democracy at stake, try 4 years with a fully republican government asked about what they should do about Voter Suppression and Gerrrymandering.
 
I don't think it's disturbing at all. A party that can only win win by minority rule should not be allowed to govern. The Electoral College is garbage.
 
Unfriendly TimeTraveler said:
I'm not going to lie I signed it. I don't care if it goes nowhere I do think the EC is in need of some type of change because for a lot of people their votes don't matter. This is because of the two party system. States that are usually red or blue make it to where the opposite vote doesn't matter.

I live in Tennessee and I do feel like my vote did not matter. I have just as much problem with the two party system as the Ec and both should go away to actually make votes matter and make people think about their votes.

I also blame the always red or blue states for voter suppression because of the fact people will feel like their votes don't matter so they won't vote.
Click to expand...

You do realize even less people's votes would matter under a popular vote election? Campaign in the biggest 5-10 states, the major metro areas and the rest of the county doesn't matter.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
This would create a war. The electors will not do this. The Electoral College exists to help prevent major population centers from having too much control on lower populated states.

Not to correct the voter's mistakes.
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True, but electors can and have changed their votes or refused to vote in prior elections. There are precedents for it.

... Just never enough to make any difference in the outcome.
 
GoldenEye 007 said:
This would create a war. The electors will not do this. The Electoral College exists to help prevent major population centers from having too much control on lower populated states.

Not to correct the voter's mistakes.
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No it doesn't, the most powerful states have some highest population in the country.
 
Hawk Fan said:
This has been pointed out multiple times. If everybody knew going in that we were going to use the national popular vote to elect the president rather than the electoral college, this election would have looked much different. The campaigns and voter turnout would have been different. Hillary didn't "win" anything.
Click to expand...

Link?
 
This is so dumb and if the other side was doing this you'd all be laughing.

Move forward. If you have a problem with the electoral college talk about it and act on it, but it's too late for this election.
 
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