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[Stop It]

I suppose this is all we're arguing on, where do you draw the line. For me if someone used a racial slur it'd make me feel awkward and I'd tell them off, but it probably wouldn't change my opinion on whether they're racist or not.

But if someone said something about any race, even if it was something relatively minor, but they weren't joking, or you could tell they were #jokingnotjoking then it would make me change my mind.



Okay so could you point me to the comment I made where I was talking about PDP at all? The first comment I made about PDP was "I can't comment on him". I'm not defending him, or bringing up every excuse to defend him. I've not defended him once.

The line is pretty fucking obvious.

If you use a racial epithet, you've committed an act of racism, knowingly or not.

If your response to bring called out on a racist act is to rail against the accusation instead of addressing the behaviour you're as bad as a racist and deserve the same contempt.

It's not rocket science.

 

[GHG]

I don't know if he was joking. I don't know about PDP and haven't watched the video. I was commenting generally on racial slurs with relation to racism. Of course it was taken as me defending PDP, but I genuinely didn't mean it like that.

Sorry to be blunt, but what the fuck are you even doing? What are you trying to achieve?

You haven't watched the video, claim to not know about PDP but yet here you are defending something he's done (which means that by default you are defending him by the way).

 

[HazySaiyan]

I don't know if he was joking. I don't know about PDP and haven't watched the video. I was commenting generally on racial slurs with relation to racism. Of course it was taken as me defending PDP, but I genuinely didn't mean it like that.

If you haven't even seen the goddamn video how can you even comment? How could you possibly understand the context of what he said? So are you just defending him using the n-word out of principle? Out of reflex?

I feel like I'm gonna have a fucking brain aneurysm

 

[watershed]

You haven't even watched the video..................what are you even doing here?

The fuck is wrong with people?

That poster is very clearly in this thread to defend people's right to use racial slurs without being accused of being racist. That seems to be their sole motivation in this thread: to defend people who use racist language.

 

[Bastables]

Maybe it doesn't work with him? But I'll re-type what I posted from a previous reply.

This where I am coming from:
I have worked with and around a lot of military personnel over the last ten years. I have met a lot of different types of people from all over the country. I have met a lot of people who came from insulated and homogenous towns (typically small towns or rural areas were everybody is a white Christian), and I have had a lot of conversations. Some of these people were unapologetic racists, but a lot of them were simply ignorant of history, racism, socioeconomics. I've seen people change over the course of a couple years, after they were really exposed to different types of people and ideas. It doesn't happen though media or on the internet, but it can happen through real dialogue and interaction.

I'll confess that I am not familiar with his nazi "joke", and maybe none of what I described is possible with Pew; maybe he is a lost cause. I want the same outcome as most everyone in this thread, but I guess I just disagree over some of the tactics.

So as a ex military per let me understand, you're hand wringing over wanting to use a tactic that you yourself have seen to be ineffective when applied to everyone.

Tell me do you think a Swede living in the UK with an excellent grasp of english multiculturally embedded enough to make jokes at a Romanian on camera, make jokes that blaze "Death to Jews" on his channel, cape for misogynistic european Members of parliament, call video game opponents fucking niggers, is reachable?

Do you think a little chat will be the thing will turn him? You know a tactic that can fail in a homogeneous setting you alluded too. It's all rhetorical, you have no idea of the history of pewds fuckwittery, you're just engaged in a pointless theoretical exercise that when applied sometimes works and sometimes does not work.

 

[FinalAres]

Oh, sick burn.

So if thread is specifically about X, and X has a very clear history of saying racist, sexist and even doing anti-Semitic things (hell, admitting to using racist slurs off camera even) then what does your opinion on Y have to do with said thread? Wouldn't it be more productive to spend a little time educating yourself on X? Instead of rushing in giving your opinion but using ad hominem to insult others who are more versed on X than your self described "ignorant on x" self?

Yeah I'm not going to defend myself for not reading the thread and going off topic in a confusing way. I can understand why people think I'm defending PDP. it was a dumb thing to do. I stand by my sentiment that racism isn't black and white though.

If you haven't even seen the goddamn video how can you even comment? How could you possibly understand the context of what he said? So are you just defending him using the n-word out of principle? Out of reflex?

Yeah so I didn't defend him, not even once!

 

[Kayant]

Hey peeps coming into thread about X person and coming up with excuses around subject about X person is totally not defending.

Internet truly never fails to surprise you.

 

[Yeoman]

I don't really know enough about PDP to know to be perfectly honest. I will definitely accept he could be a racist. But there's a possibility he's also just an asshole.

What you think PewDiePie's intentions are does not actually matter.
He is judged on his actions and those actions have been repeatedly racist. This is just another addition to a long list of racist shit he has said and done.

 

[GHG]

Hey peeps coming into thread about X person and coming up with excuses around subject about X person is totally not defending.

Internet truly never fails to surprise you.

And the kicker... They are defending something they haven't even seen.

It blows my mind.

 

[Primethius]

And the kicker... They are defending something they haven't even seen.

It blows my mind.

It seems like a fairly common ploy at this point as a means of deflecting criticism.

But I guess we always gotta have folks be defending racists.

 

[watershed]

Yeah I'm not going to defend myself for not reading the thread and going off topic in a confusing way. I can understand why people think I'm defending PDP. it was a dumb thing to do. I stand by my sentiment that racism isn't black and white though.

You have no insight to offer on racism. Nearly everone posting in this thread understands that racism is deeply complicated. You are posting to defend people who use racist language. Given your dedication to this task, I suspect you are caping for people you know and maybe even yourself.

 

[FinalAres]

That poster is very clearly in this thread to defend people's right to use racial slurs without being accused of being racist. That seems to be their sole motivation in this thread: to defend people who use racist language.

Not even that. If you'd read what I've said several times you'd see I've said that using racial slurs is bad enough on its own.

You have no insight to offer on racism. Nearly everone posting in this thread understands that racism is deeply complicated. You are posting to defend people who use racist language. Given your dedication to this task, I suspect you are caping for people you know and maybe even yourself.

Could you at least go back and read what I've actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Yeah so I didn't defend him, not even once!

Yes you did, you said him using the n-word doesn't necessarily make him racist but you don't even know the context in which it was said!

 

[Doc_Drop]

And the kicker... They are defending something they haven't even seen.

It blows my mind.

Seriously, it's insane what lengths people go to, and the sheer audacity of it is always astounding

 

[KORNdoggy]

Not even that. If you'd read what I've said several times you'd see I've said that using racial slurs is bad enough on its own.

...but apparently not racism...

you're making a fool of yourself.

 

[True Fire]

I stand by my sentiment that racism isn't black and white though.

This is just coming across as gaslighting now. How many times can you go in circles while claiming you're not defending PDP? Educate yourself. You can start by actually watching the video and reading why these words are hurtful to black people.

 

[Nabs]

Not even that. If you'd read what I've said several times you'd see I've said that using racial slurs is bad enough on its own.



Could you at least go back and read what I've actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.

Your first post in the thread:

I'm just going to say it. I don't think using a racial slur is the same thing as being a racist. I do think that both are really awful, but also that being a racist is more awful than using a racial slur.

You came into a thread you had no real interest in just to defend racists. Why?

 

[GHG]

The sheer irony when people rush in here to defend racism by saying "oh they must just be ignorant" or "oh they must just be stupid".

But yet, these people are openly ignorant about the very thing they are attempting to defend.

 

[NHarmonic.]

We can award a lot of mental gymnastics gold medals in this thread. Jackstin is the last addition with his "not defending but maybe it was a joke, but i don't know PDP, didn't watch the video, are racial slurs racist?"

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Why defend a guy who clearly said a racist thing and yet you say it's something else when you haven't even seen the vid?? Do you know how stupid that is??

 

[BGBW]

It's not even just the one slur, it's the continued actions of PDP. People are willing to forgive a stupid mistake... if one learns from said mistakes.

PDP has been given a chance time and time again and clearly doesn't care. Does he look like he's appalled by what he said in that video? Nope. He just laughs. He's likely laughing right now.

And then we have the "YouTube influencers" who are brushing this off as no biggie or condemning those who dare ask for their opinion on the matter. The sad thing is, these people are who the industry look to. They are our representatives. Sorry, but I don't want Mr PewPew or Mr Faze or Mr Boogie or whoever speaking on my behalf if they're going to be continued dimwits.

So the only way to remove that risk - speak out and represent myself.

And yet, apparently that's bad and we should all just stay silent and move on and not make a fuss and continue to let the "influencers" shit the bed of gaming.

 

[FinalAres]

Your first post in the thread:

Where do I mention PDP? I'm not being purposely obtuse here. I was 100% not talking about PDP, but 100% responding to other comments.

 

[SpartanForce]

The sad thing is that this is not the only one as the thread has show.

For instance, I really wish the thuleanperspective channel was closed on YT. And a lot of others.

 

[Brutuspedia]

And his "rape jokes" era?

Everyone talking about his nazi "jokes" and this racist rant but I haven't seen much mention to his "rape jokes" phase.

Are these media outlets or his buddies on YT suffering from short memory? Where does this stop? Who's his next target?

 

[ClosingADoor]

What you think PewDiePie's intentions are does not actually matter.
He is judged on his actions and those actions have been repeatedly racist. This is just another addition to a long list of racist shit he has said and done.

Don't even have to look at his actions. Just look at the company he keeps. I said this in a previous thread about this guy, but someone who is following these people already is looking pretty bad:

- Keemstar
- Lauren Southern
- Palmer Luckey
- Alex fucking Jones
- Stefan Molyneux
- Ian Miles Cheong

Probably missing a few. This is like the alt-right club on Twitter. And Pewdiepie keeps up with it all.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

1 and 0. You either are a racist or or you condone racism. There simply is no middleground.

 

[cartographer]

Why defend a guy who clearly said a racist thing and yet you say it's something else when you haven't even seen the vid?? Do you know how stupid that is??

Because calling out racist behavior as racist hits too close to home.

That's the most generous reading of his posts.

 

[TatteredHat]

Some people are REALLY upset that they're not allowed to say a word.

 

[GHG]

Where do I mention PDP? I'm not being purposely obtuse here. I was 100% not talking about PDP, but 100% responding to other comments.

Other comments that are about PDP. You know, the thread title, the stuff in the OP, the topic of discussion.

 

[LizardSnob]

I wonder if Markiplier will make another RESPECT video trying to defend his buddy. Don't get me wrong, I love Markiplier, but damn did I lose some respect when he did that.

 

[watershed]

I am also someone who doesn't think someone should be blanket labelled a racist for saying a racist slur. But also using a racist slur is enough of an awful thing to do, that I agree that should really be what we're talking about.

But just wanted to say, thinking someone shouldn't be labelled a racist, but also wanting to talk about how awful he is for saying that word, are not mutually exclusive things.

Not even that. If you'd read what I've said several times you'd see I've said that using racial slurs is bad enough on its own.


Could you at least go back and read what I've actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.

I read your comments and responded to them without putting words in your mouth. See the above where you clearly defend imagined people who use racist language from being called racists. As I said, you are in this thread specifically to defend people who use racist language.

 

[Nabs]

Where do I mention PDP? I'm not being purposely obtuse here. I was 100% not talking about PDP, but 100% responding to other comments.

Bro, what thread are we in? You didn't quote anyone there, so you were responding to people talking about PDP and his racist bullshit. Oh my goodness.

 

[SKINNER!]

So PDP's behaviour seems to have caught the attention of my other non-gaming friends and colleagues that now see the gaming culture/scene as a harbour for childish, sexist, closet racists. Now I know that not everyone in the industry behaves like this and a lot of fantastic work by hard working creators and developers have been put in make the video game industry a lucrative and successful environment. But when you got these "Famous Youtube Gamers" types waving the "I'm a gamer" flag spitting this vile stuff then it paints a really bad image. It was bad enough with Gamergate and the sexist remarks chucked around back then. All that hard work put into moulding video games into a media platform that's for everyone (all genders, ages, races, languages, nationalities) is slowly being chipped away by horrid, ignorant two faced (and to some extent childish) people like PDP, like Boogie, like Faze who are casting a dark storm on this industry. Gaming companies need to distance themselves from these guys. No more endorsements, no more invites to E3 or any other major video game expos, no more mentions. Make this a "Youtube" problem and not allow them to further defecate on the video game industry and culture.

 

[HazySaiyan]

Where do I mention PDP? I'm not being purposely obtuse here. I was 100% not talking about PDP, but 100% responding to other comments.

It's a thread about PDP?

Fucking hell

 

[NHarmonic.]

I read your comments and responded to them without putting words in your mouth. See the above where you clearly defend imagined people who use racist language from being called racists. As I said, you are in this thread specifically to defend people who use racist language.

He's acting conveniently obtuse. Absolutely incredible behaviour.

 

[FinalAres]

This is just coming across as gaslighting now. How many times can you go in circles while claiming you're not defending PDP? Educate yourself. You can start by actually watching the video and reading why these words are hurtful to black people.

Okay so I watch the video, I educate myself on his background and decide he's a racist. From what people are saying about him, that's probably what will happen right? Fine.

Doesn't make a difference. I didn't come in here to defend him, I didn't come in here to defend racism, I didn't come in here to defend racial slurs.

All I said is that I don't think that someone who says an offensive word like that is necessarily someone who harbors racist thoughts. Not that saying the word in itself isn't bad enough, but I think there's a disconnect.

 

[ScientificPizza]

And his "rape jokes" era?

Everyone talking about his nazi "jokes" and this racist rant but I haven't seen much mention to his "rape jokes" phase.

Are these media outlets or his buddies on YT suffering from short memory? Where does this stop? Who's his next target?

Rape jokes are literally why that dude is famous

 

[hodgy100]

So PDP's behaviour seems to have caught the attention of my other non-gaming friends and colleagues that now see the gaming culture/scene as a harbour for childish, sexist, closet racists. Now I know that not everyone in the industry behaves like this and a lot of fantastic work by hard working creators and developers have been put in make the video game industry a lucrative and successful environment. But when you got these "Famous Youtube Gamers" types waving the "I'm a gamer" flag spitting this vile stuff then it paints a really bad image. It was bad enough with Gamergate and the sexist remarks chucked around back then. All that hard work put into moulding video games into a media platform that's for everyone (all genders, ages, races, languages, nationalities) is slowly being chipped away by horrid, ignorant two faced (and to some extent childish) people like PDP, like Boogie, like Faze who are casting a dark storm on this industry. Gaming companies need to distance themselves from these guys. No more endorsements, no more invites to E3 or any other major video game expos, no more mentions. Make this a "Youtube" problem and not allow them to further defecate on the video game industry and culture.

As a game developer this is what i find the most frustrating about these kind of things. I try my hardest to remove myself and the things i work on from these toxic behaviours and PDP comes around and fucks it all up.

I want games to be inclusive

 

[Polk]

I am also someone who doesn't think someone should be blanket labelled a racist for saying a racist slur. But also using a racist slur is enough of an awful thing to do, that I agree that should really be what we're talking about.

But just wanted to say, thinking someone shouldn't be labelled a racist, but also wanting to talk about how awful he is for saying that word, are not mutually exclusive things.

At what point being racist begins then?

 

[hotcyder]

They're defending him because they've used the word before. They see him being publicly shamed and the thought of it happening to them makes them go into defensive mode.

Hence the 60+ "nobody cares, it's not a big deal" posts in this thread. Racism is real, and racism in gaming is a huge problem.

Well people have got to be self-reflective. They should own what they've said, understand why they said, and figure out how to go from there. Unless its rapping along with Biggie or reading Huckleberry Finn out loud, that word has to come from somewhere - and you can either purge it from your systems or fully embrace it - just understand the consequences of doing the latter.

Gamings got a maturity problem - and as long as publishers are pushing out games that are targeted at the 13-30 male market, it's going to stay that way.

I'd think that most moderate people in this thread who are on the defensive aren't going to do the latter - especially if they haven't got Notch money to basically be total recluses for their entire lives.

As a game developer this is what i find the most frustrating about these kind of things. I try my hardest to remove myself and the things i work on from these toxic behaviours and PDP comes around and fucks it all up.

I want games to be inclusive

Me too

 

[FinalAres]

See the above where you clearly defend imagined people who use racist language from being called racists

Okay well that's fair enough, I did defend them from being called racists, but that's different from defending their use. I've said from the start and repeated it multiple times that using racial slurs is awful and should be condemned.

 

[Lightning_Roller]

I wonder if Markiplier will make another RESPECT video trying to defend his buddy. Don't get me wrong, I love Markiplier, but damn did I lose some respect when he did that.

Yeah, he shouldn't have done that at all. And now with this, I certainly hope he doesn't even think about making a video defending PDP. I mean with the evidence we got, it's open and shut. He said some racist shit and doesn't deserve defense.

 

[cartographer]

At what point being racist begins then?

With the way some people twist themselves to defend absolutely everything at some point the line's going to be direct participation in violent ethnic cleansing.

 

[Ponn]

At what point being racist begins then?

When it's not something these people are partaking of.

 

[watershed]

At what point being racist begins then?

You gotta register as a racist before anyone can call you a racist. It's like being a lawyer. You gotta pass the bar examine before it's official.

 

[Doc_Drop]

All I said is that I don't think that someone who says an offensive word like that is necessarily someone who harbors racist thoughts. Not that saying the word in itself isn't bad enough, but I think there's a disconnect.

Simple question, why?

Saying the word, especially in that context, is racist, not just offensive

 

[Lightning_Roller]

Okay so I watch the video, I educate myself on his background and decide he's a racist. From what people are saying about him, that's probably what will happen right? Fine.

Doesn't make a difference. I didn't come in here to defend him, I didn't come in here to defend racism, I didn't come in here to defend racial slurs.

All I said is that I don't think that someone who says an offensive word like that is necessarily someone who harbors racist thoughts. Not that saying the word in itself isn't bad enough, but I think there's a disconnect.

You stanning pretty damn hard for something YOU HAVENT EVEN WATCHED YET!

 

[Messofanego]

I don't know if he was joking. I don't know about PDP and haven't watched the video. I was commenting generally on racial slurs with relation to racism. Of course it was taken as me defending PDP, but I genuinely didn't mean it like that.

Why do we let people like Jackstin come into this thread, be COMPLETELY UNINFORMED about the topic, don't know the context AT ALL, hasn't watched any of the videos in the friggin' OP where he's said "nigger" twice without any remorse because "I know that no one watching this stream gives a shit" and a third time almost, and yet just because the topic is about racism, we let them have their say. They'll go on this defensive for PAGES and yet still haven't checked the material.

THEN when that person FINALLY watches the videos or whatever sources, he/she pulls their hands up and goes "I didn't know, sorry".

This goes out to all the people in this thread who believe he's not a racist and bring up their garbage defense that everything is a joke to this guy so he can't actually mean it. That we can't see into his mind of whether or not he hates a certain race. That judging him just by his actions is too harsh. That "nigger" has to be directed at someone to be racist. Ironic racism is still racism. Racists have loved using jokiness as a cloak for a long while. Here's a quote from Jean Paul Sartre in 1944:

"Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play.

They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."

 

[Kayant]

The lengths people go to not admit they were wrong never surprises me.

Just FYI when you are able to recognise when you're in the wrong. Your self awareness increases 10 folds also has the nice perk of making you more decent as a human being.

 

[DrBo42]

I don't play PUBG so maybe I'm missing something but I don't see how that's a bad thing? If my enemies are about to eliminate my team, why wouldn't I want to drag them down with me?

Pretty much. Everyone does it but when it's done to your group, that guy is an asshole.