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[Punished Miku]

He isn't selling it for money. It's a free game. Hardly any assets are stolen, either. No IP theft here.

I disagree about as much as humanly possible.

 

[Sticks]

 

[Lokaum D+]

Because the only reason anyone cares about this is the IP he stole.

some Nintendo shills are already on attack mode

 

[BlackTron]

Because the only reason anyone cares about this is the IP he stole.

C'mon, people will still know what IP he stole even if you don't make it so blatantly easy to strike down.

He isn't selling it for money. It's a free game. Hardly any assets are stolen, either. No IP theft here.

Dude the title screen says SUPER MARIO, are you insane?

It needs to be called Uber IP Fallacy 3 not that

 

[BlackTron]

some Nintendo shills are already on attack mode

Dude isn't even an N shill, it's insane how fast the insecure Nintendo haters go into attack mode.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Dude isn't even an N shill, it's insane how fast the insecure Nintendo haters go into attack mode.

said the guy calling ppl insane and insecure XD

 

[Miles708]

Fan games are an unknown and dangerous threat now uh.

 

[Punished Miku]

C'mon, people will still know what IP he stole even if you don't make it so blatantly easy to strike down.

And yet they still copied every element of the visual design language, the moveset, the music, the name, the character. It's almost like the IP itself has some sort of .... value or something.

 

[Lokaum D+]

And yet they still copied every element of the visual design language, the moveset, the music, the name, the character. It's almost like the IP itself has some sort of .... value or something.

Skyblivion fan project + their fans = this looks amazing
RE4 Fan Remaster + their fans = this looks amazing
Sonic fan projects + their fans = this looks amazing

Nintendo fans projects + Nintedo fan base =

 

[Ogbert]

Don't think Nintendo can order a game created in Dreams to be removed.

Of course they can.

It's an open and shut IP infringement.

 

[Punished Miku]

Skyblivion fan project + their fans = this looks amazing
RE4 Fan Remaster + their fans = this looks amazing
Sonic fan projects + their fans = this looks amazing

Nintendo fans projects + Nintedo fan base =

Nintendo IP is the most valued IP in the entire history of gaming. Every single other IP holder in existence can take notes from them on how to run IP.

If other companies don't care about protecting their IP and want fans to fuck around with it, fine. Nintendo does care, and I don't blame them.

 

[BlackTron]

And yet they still copied every element of the visual design language, the moveset, the music, the name, the character. It's almost like the IP itself has some sort of .... value or something.

Imitation is the biggest form of flattery; this isn't a paid game. It's cool when people do this stuff (SEE: Mario Maker).

The reason it's lame to call it Super Mario is because it defeats the whole point of making the game, like you are so over-desperate to steal attention from another IP that you give away how to one-hit KO the game and no one gets to play it. Same deal with announcing unofficial projects in advance. "I want a dose of attention before it's complete, so I will draw attention to what I am doing so that they can stop me". It staggers me that people smart enough to make video games do this.

said the guy calling ppl insane and insecure XD

Calling it as I see it. You could have traded his statement about the game with any company and it would stand. Maybe he just believes in IP rights. If there is any possible way something could have been taken as a Nintendo defense, it's like you have a personal Bat symbol. I felt the same way about that dudes Crysis/Krysis game, it was unbelievably lame until he at least renamed it. (Not a Nintendo property).

 

[SpokkX]

I really think this could have been Sonys Roblox if they bother with a PC version and added monetization and multiplayer

 

[Punished Miku]

Imitation is the biggest form of flattery; this isn't a paid game. It's cool when people do this stuff (SEE: Mario Maker).

The reason it's lame to call it Super Mario is because it defeats the whole point of making the game, like you are so over-desperate to steal attention from another IP that you give away how to one-hit KO the game and no one gets to play it. Same deal with announcing unofficial projects in advance. "I want a dose of attention before it's complete, so I will draw attention to what I am doing so that they can stop me". It staggers me that people smart enough to make video games do this.



Calling it as I see it. You could have traded his statement about the game with any company and it would stand. Maybe he just believes in IP rights. If there is any possible way something could have been taken as a Nintendo defense, it's like you have a personal Bat symbol. I felt the same way about that dudes Crysis/Krysis game, it was unbelievably lame until he at least renamed it. (Not a Nintendo property).

Imitation is fine. IP theft is only fine if the IP holder doesn't care. Reminds me of the Metroid AM2 crap. Tons of people insisting it's just amazing and this free game is superior to other Metroid games. Nintendo is just supposed to say it's "cool" when people put out free copies of their products, making it less likely that they can sell theirs?

It's delusional. This kind of mindset only exists on gaming forums where people have some code where they've convinced themselves that mods are sacred and above everything. They're not. They're especially not in Japan. They're not at Nintendo. They find it insulting to take someone else's work and use it to steal attention and bolster a subpar product. People can cry about it all they want and try their luck in court, where reality will hit them hard, and I will enjoy watching their "code" meet reality swiftly.

If you want to make a game, make your own game. You can copy tons of stuff from Mario, just not the entire fucking thing.

 

[BlackTron]

Imitation is fine. IP theft is only fine if the IP holder doesn't care. Reminds me of the Metroid AM2 crap. Tons of people insisting it's just amazing and this free game is superior to other Metroid games. Nintendo is just supposed to say it's "cool" when people put out free copies of their products, making it less likely that they can sell theirs?

It's delusional. This kind of mindset only exists on gaming forums where people have some code where they've convinced themselves that mods are sacred and above everything. They're not. They're especially not in Japan. They're not at Nintendo. They find it insulting to take someone else's work and use it to steal attention and bolster a subpar product. People can cry about it all they want and try their luck in court, where reality will hit them hard, and I will enjoy watching their "code" meet reality swiftly.

If you want to make a game, make your own game. You can copy tons of stuff from Mario, just not the entire fucking thing.

Personally, I think you made a full game, put it on the net for free, and then just go away. Gigachad move. If Metroid was really in such a bad state that a fan game made it hard to sell, then they can do better. That won't hold back sales from gamers who want to play Metroid games, unless you are counting on them to be so starving that they eat your shit.

I'm not dissing Nintendo for protecting their IP. I'm dissing people who fail to account for the fact that Nintendo protects their IP, which is retarded.

 

[The_Mike]

I would love to trade every single playstation published game on PC with this title alone.

 

[BlackTron]

I would love to trade every single playstation published game on PC with this title alone.

Good thing they never ported Astro-bot

 

[Punished Miku]

Personally, I think you made a full game, put it on the net for free, and then just go away. Gigachad move. If Metroid was really in such a bad state that a fan game made it hard to sell, then they can do better. That won't hold back sales from gamers who want to play Metroid games, unless you are counting on them to be so starving that they eat your shit.

I'm not dissing Nintendo for protecting their IP. I'm dissing people who fail to account for the fact that Nintendo protects their IP, which is retarded.

I just think gamers are complicit in promoting a culture of mediocrity and copying. No one holds up cover bands to this level, or people who trace artwork. My brothers were in bands. They wrote their own music. Make your own game. Why do people always encourage this copying crap? Gamers are some of the least creative people ever. No wonder we get so many remakes. I can't imagine the creative bankruptcy of someone putting in all the effort to make a game, but with zero artistic content to express themselves. Zero. This is the same as actively listening to karaoke like it's the pinnacle of music. No music fans are that stupid, but gamers are.

 

[Miles708]

I just think gamers are complicit in promoting a culture of mediocrity and copying. No one holds up cover bands to this level, or people who trace artwork. My brothers were in bands. They wrote their own music. Make your own game. Why do people always encourage this copying crap? Gamers are some of the least creative people ever. No wonder we get so many remakes. I can't imagine the creative bankruptcy of someone putting in all the effort to make a game, but with zero artistic content to express themselves. Zero. This is the same as actively listening to karaoke like it's the pinnacle of music. No music fans are that stupid, but gamers are.

Take a deep breath, relax your shoulders.

 

[Lokaum D+]

Personally, I think you made a full game, put it on the net for free, and then just go away. Gigachad move. If Metroid was really in such a bad state that a fan game made it hard to sell, then they can do better. That won't hold back sales from gamers who want to play Metroid games, unless you are counting on them to be so starving that they eat your shit.

I'm not dissing Nintendo for protecting their IP. I'm dissing people who fail to account for the fact that Nintendo protects their IP, which is retarded.

since i m a insane insecure retarded person, explain to me why they need to be so protective of a fan project that it is not being commercialized aside from them looking bad cause a fan project is looking better than their official products ? its just this or there is something else i m missing ?

i agree that they need to protect their IP from some ppl that are selling products without their authorization, but a fan project that some guy made to have fun ?

 

[BlackTron]

since i m a insane insecure retarded person, explain to me why they need to be so protective of a fan project that it is not being commercialized aside from them looking bad cause a fan project is looking better than their official products ? its just this or there is something else i m missing ?

It's copyright protection 101, and I don't believe you are that retarded that you don't recognize this (you said you are retarded, not me). Asking me to explain is just gaslighting.

 

[Ebrietas]

Looks like actual next gen Mario, unlike the stuff Nintendo has been putting out. Shows how creativity bankrupt and lazy that company is when someone can make this inside of a ps4 game.

 

[BlackTron]

I just think gamers are complicit in promoting a culture of mediocrity and copying. No one holds up cover bands to this level, or people who trace artwork. My brothers were in bands. They wrote their own music. Make your own game. Why do people always encourage this copying crap? Gamers are some of the least creative people ever. No wonder we get so many remakes. I can't imagine the creative bankruptcy of someone putting in all the effort to make a game, but with zero artistic content to express themselves. Zero. This is the same as actively listening to karaoke like it's the pinnacle of music. No music fans are that stupid, but gamers are.

Not that many people who work on a game are responsible for the character design or world building.

Maybe some people are level designers who want to try their take at something, and that's where their creativity comes out.

Not sure why it's so obvious you've never contributed creatively to any type of game project, but it is.

 

[Punished Miku]

Not that many people who work on a game are responsible for the character design or world building.

Maybe some people are level designers who want to try their take at something, and that's where their creativity comes out.

Not sure why it's so obvious you've never contributed creatively to any type of game project, but it is.

This guy has the ability to copy every aspect of Mario art design. I'm sure he can figure it out. What a ridiculous excuse. Guy could get a new character from an AI if he wanted.

 

[The_Mike]

Good thing they never ported Astro-bot

My statement still stands.

 

[BlackTron]

This guy has the ability to copy every aspect of Mario art design. I'm sure he can figure it out. What a ridiculous excuse. Guy could get a new character from an AI if he wanted.

Konami has the ability to copy every aspect of MGS3.

It's obvious they can handle a full on sequel now without Kojima.

 

[Lokaum D+]

It's copyright protection 101, and I don't believe you are that retarded that you don't recognize this (you said you are retarded, not me). Asking me to explain is just gaslighting.

again, i dont see a problem since he is not selling or making any profit, its just for fun and it wont hurt Nintendo in any kind or form, i just think Nintendo and some of their fans are too damn harsh when it comes to this projects, but you are right from the legal perspective even if i dont think everything needs to be so black and white.

 

[BlackTron]

again, i dont see a problem since he is not selling or making any profit, its just for fun and it wont hurt Nintendo in any kind or form, i just think Nintendo is to damn harsh when it comes to this projects, you are right from the legal perspective but i dont think everything needs to be so black and white.

It's literally Mario on Playstation, the mere image of a person holding a Sony controller and seeing a Super Mario title screen is pure anathema.

 

[Punished Miku]

Konami has the ability to copy every aspect of MGS3.

It's obvious they can handle a full on sequel now without Kojima.

I'll just quote this smart guy below. Ask him any further questions since you seem deeply confused.

It's copyright protection 101, and I don't believe you are that retarded that you don't recognize this (you said you are retarded, not me). Asking me to explain is just gaslighting.

It's not Nintendo's job to help this person train on making games with Mario. What a joke. Konami can do whatever they want with their own IP. Period.

Make your own shit. Copying is looked down on when China does it, but make it some western modder and people here will defend it to the death. It's frankly almost racist how much people love IP theft when it's western IP theft.

 

[poodaddy]

It's absolutely insane to me that Sony never put Dreams on PC.

It's like they don't like money.

 

[Lokaum D+]

It's literally Mario on Playstation, the mere image of a person holding a Sony controller and seeing a Super Mario title screen is pure anathema.

yeah, but even if it was a PC project this conversation would not be different in any kind, been on PlayStation is just the cherry on top;

Edit: This is a FAQ on the SMRS website, there is hope i guess

 

[BlackTron]

I'll just quote this smart guy below. Ask him any further questions since you seem deeply confused.

It's not Nintendo's job to help this person train on making games with Mario. What a joke. Konami can do whatever they want with their own IP. Period.

Konami can do whatever they want within their ability, which hasn't been proven with a port (I have doubts). This guy has not proved the extent of his capabilities with this game either, nor should he have to to anybody, because it's a free game he made because he felt like it, using an in-game creator.

Make your own shit. Copying is looked down on when China does it, but make it some western modder and people here will defend it to the death. It's frankly almost racist how much people love IP theft when it's western IP theft.

Jesus Christ dude.

 

[BlackTron]

yeah, but even if it was a PC project this conversation would not be different in any kind, been on PlayStation is just the cherry on top;

If it was released on PC it would be out in the wild forever. It would not even have been an extremely dumb move to call it Super Mario, just respectful not to.

 

[Punished Miku]

Konami can do whatever they want within their ability, which hasn't been proven with a port (I have doubts). This guy has not proved the extent of his capabilities with this game either, nor should he have to to anybody, because it's a free game he made because he felt like it, using an in-game creator.

They can do whatever they want, period. They can hire an outside studio to make it and have zero ability. Has literally nothing to do with ability.

The fact that it's free doesn't absolve it from being IP theft. Again, watch it get taken down and ponder on what is preventing you from acknowledging reality.

 

[Alexios]

This looks amazing, after studying the Mario games enough to do this (I wonder if Jasper's videos helped in that) he should definitely do something original next (and hopefully on a platform more people can play, not a dead game maker Sony mishandled so badly), Spark the Electric Jester style.

Or basically like Poi but much, much better (I still liked it, it's one of my favourite indie 3D platformers alongside Skylar & Plux, more than big names like A Hat in Time which imo miss the mark where it succeeds, though it could also be way more refined and meaty, like this project appears to be).​

​

Funny how much Nintendo and its games get dissed (people constantly suggesting they score high cos of some kind of fear & bias from the media, which have hated Nintendo for like 15 years for basically completely bypassing them with the Direct format of marketing among other such reasons) except when a replica copies visuals, mechanics, gimmicks, pretty much everything as close to 1:1 as possible, then it's suddenly the best thing ever (and somehow Nintendo and its games still suck, the replica -before even playing it - is so much better, like it could have even existed without them)!

The same folks would hate Nintendo for making Mario Galaxy 3 whether in the Wii days or now no matter how brilliant and how far ahead every other 3D platformer it would have been, they're still hated for "milking" their IP even as sequels are far more diverse making Galaxy 2 an (ace) exception.​

 

[BlackTron]

They can do whatever they want, period. They can hire an outside studio to make it and have zero ability. Has literally nothing to do with ability.

The fact that it's free doesn't absolve it from being IP theft. Again, watch it get taken down and ponder on what is preventing you from acknowledging reality.

So if Nintendo closed down tomorrow, and I was sitting on a billion dollars, I could make any Nintendo project I want a reality just by throwing money around? Guess we'll stay in our respective realities. I'm self-aware that I will have immense pain trying to manage a team to recreate Nintendo's greatness (on-record, I'm not capable of it, which means knowing exactly when and who to work with and what ideas to promote or discard. N is already better at it than most people I could hire, including myself, so I have no illusions that "money solves everything")

 

[Punished Miku]

So if Nintendo closed down tomorrow, and I was sitting on a billion dollars, I could make any Nintendo project I want a reality just by throwing money around? Guess we'll stay in our respective realities. I'm self-aware that I will have immense pain trying to manage a team to recreate Nintendo's greatness (on-record, I'm not capable of it, which means knowing exactly when and who to work with and what ideas to promote or discard. N is already better at it than most people I could hire, including myself, so I have no illusions that "money solves everything")

This is a discussion about IP ownership. You can work on game design, level design, programming, project management, artwork all without IP theft.

You know who did do that? Nintendo, and every other actual game developer and artist with a shred of creativity in their body.

 

[BlackTron]

Its already dead

I took this literally, I guess you were just calling it because it's still up.

Thought they already nuked it.

 

[BlackTron]

This is a discussion about IP ownership. You can work on game design, level design, programming, project management, artwork all without IP theft.

Well I think fan games/adaptations are cool, assuming they don't overdo it or specifically go out of their way to affect sales of a real game.

 

[Sevyne]

I'll just quote this smart guy below. Ask him any further questions since you seem deeply confused.


It's not Nintendo's job to help this person train on making games with Mario. What a joke. Konami can do whatever they want with their own IP. Period.

Make your own shit. Copying is looked down on when China does it, but make it some western modder and people here will defend it to the death. It's frankly almost racist how much people love IP theft when it's western IP theft.

It's almost like you can't tell the difference between "for profit" and "for fun", but go on soldier!

Now let me make myself clear on these matters. A company is completely within their rights to shut down a fan-made project. I just don't think some randos on the Internet should be busting out pitchforks and hoping the megacorp actually does it. That's just some pathetic shill behavior.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

Nintendo has a responsibility to its shareholders. Flagrant IP infringements obviously have to be shut down.

That said, skilful job at implementing the game mechanics and Mario athletics. Developer should be making their own games.

 

[GymWolf]

The n64 version look way more gorgeous but that's just me...

 

[Bojanglez]

When I see some of the utter crap that my kids play on Roblox, I can't help but think that Sony missed a massive trick not turning Dreams into a good version of that. Granted to make that work it would have to be available on every platform, but the opportunity would have been massive.

 

[jm89]

Damn amazing job.

Now swap out the assets and hire a lawyer.

 

[Alexios]

When I see some of the utter crap that my kids play on Roblox, I can't help but think that Sony missed a massive trick not turning Dreams into a good version of that. Granted to make that work it would have to be available on every platform, but the opportunity would have been massive.

I mean, your kids would still find the crap and play and love them, it's not like every Dreams creator makes ace shit like this and there are tons of cool shit on Roblox you'd never guess was made with it too, like this guy's stuff, from Doom-like engines/games to a full VR (and flat) tacticool project.

 

[Punished Miku]

Well I think fan games/adaptations are cool, assuming they don't overdo it or specifically go out of their way to affect sales of a real game.

I get that, but imagine a world where Nintendo actually couldn't shut these down and you saw dozens of these a year. It will immediately be overdoing it.

 

[Sevyne]

Nintendo has a responsibility to its shareholders. Flagrant IP infringements obviously have to be shut down.

That said, skilful job at implementing the game mechanics and Mario athletics. Developer should be making their own games.

And maybe they will make their own games. In many forms of art (being painting, music, etc) a lot of people's first step in learning is imitation. Copying methods and other works to test yourself and compare. It's a spot you don't want to linger at too long though otherwise you don't make any significant progress beyond that, but it is how most people start.

 

[BlackTron]

I get that, but imagine a world where Nintendo actually couldn't shut these down and you saw dozens of these a year. It will immediately be overdoing it.

I think it's good we have IP law. I also think it's good we have fangames. They can coexist where neither fully cancels the other. When I said "overdo it" I meant in the context of a single project. Like even stealing the title.

I don't find taking the Mario model as offensive as taking dynamic characters from other smaller IP because he's just the iconic platforming "guy" that is silent, ubiquitous, everyone knows, sold zillions, whatever. Timeless icon. It's like making an animated short with Mickey, oh my god who gives a shit. Maybe, the guy liked Mickey and felt like it and did what he wanted for no other reason. I get that it's Disney's job to care but do I? Hell no, why would I judge that? He did what he wanted with his time and hurt no one (oh no! not Disney! leavethemultibilliionalone.jpg)

I get that technically IP is owned by the company and its their right to hold it just in case they want to sell or fix something later, but sometimes you are worried you will simply die first, see: Sonic PC projects like Unleashed or 06.

You may be holding yourself to an unrealistic ideal for its own sake. The world isn't as comfortably black and white as we wish it were to judge from a station of moral superiority.

 

[apple_of_enlightenment]

And maybe they will make their own games. In many forms of art (being painting, music, etc) a lot of people's first step in learning is imitation. Copying methods and other works to test yourself and compare. It's a spot you don't want to linger at too long though otherwise you don't make any significant progress beyond that, but it is how most people start.

As long as they or someone else isn't using it commercially, yes.

 

[Gambit2483]

That's cool and all, but I never said it was better than SMO. I just wasn't a big fan of it and find it very overrated. You had New Donk City with the people and cars and that just isn't Mario for me, I didn't dig that.

This Dreams creation shows how I want Mario levels to look like, with the stuff out of the older Mario games. I do get the need of trying out new things though, can't blame Nintendo for that.

That's all well and valid points and I understand that many people want a more traditional 3D Mario game...but knowing Nintendo they are almost always going to try to push for different/innovation gameplay ideas for their 2 biggest mainline franchises, i.e. Mario and Zelda.

I was just making sure to keep hyperbole and reality in check when comparing a full fledged AAA game to a fan mock.