Hmm... I'd better buy one then!
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Pikmin 3 Review Thread [UP2: All reviews are live]
- Thread starter TheRedSnifit
- Start date
Hmm... I'd better buy one then!
GiantBreadbug
Member
I guess I didn't add the famous "IMO" disclaimer, which does make my statements sound "matter of fact" - ish. But that's just the way I feel right now. And I suppose the changes are so jarring because of the way Pikmin 2 progressed from Pikmin 1. There were changes, but I felt the changes were overall beneficial. This time I feel (which may change upon playing the game), that the changes are not. But I didn't expect such radical changes for this series, seeing as how it's in what I would consider its infancy (assuming Nintendo plans to grow it further).
Um, yes? 15 is twice the number of controllable Pikmin than what I was suggesting. The reason I'm upset is because there are so many more things that could've been done with Purples and Whites in the campaign, alongside Rock and Wing Pikmin. I just feel that it's squandered potential.
And I didn't say it was a major step back. I just think it's a step back. Especially in a series that values strategy and diversifying your Pikmin hoard to approach challenges in different ways.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
Probably using Wii Motion+ & Nunchuk with the GamePad (as a map and controlling the second and third captains without having to switch to them)
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Make sure it's a Wii Remote+! Motionplus is what makes the aiming in this game so buttery great.
GiantBreadbug
Member
NPC Pikmin 2 didn't have Motion+ aiming, did it? I'm thinking no, but I can't quite remember.
Now GiantBreadbug, let me be the one to hopefully change your mind.
I'm sad the classic style of swarming isn't making a return, as it felt really good. However, as stated it's in their with D-Pad maneuvers and a lock-on move, and who are we to say that doesn't benefit the level/enemy design? Also, the new controls options such as touchscreen organization, map control, and IR aiming really overshadows one, slightly altered mechanic. I believe on the gamepad the 2nd stick is now real-time camera control, which sounds great.
With regards to losing Purple and White Pikmin.
Aren't the new rock type more or less replacement of purple? As in the heavier, stronger Pikmin type?
Also, White Pikmin served little to no purpose other than being poison and destroying poisonous barriers. I think using yellow/red Pikmin on the electric/fire barriers is more or less the EXACT SAME GAME MECHANIC.
The Pikmin types really just serve the gameplay and level design mechanics. In a Pikmin game without water, I wouldn't complain about lack of blue Pikmin as their benefit is pretty much unnecessary. It's like complaining that a new Mario game doesn't have ALL the power-ups from the Mario before it, even if the new levels/game-design didn't serve those power ups. Let's face it, it's a silly argument.
For arguments sake, there could be 7 types in the game and they could make it work. There could be 15 as well. It depends entirely on the game they made. I think it might be cool if there were small side-missions where you had radically new Pikmin for short bursts, and for regular missions stuck the original 5-7 or whatever. But then again, I'm not designing the game.
Also I expect Pikmin 3 to get mostly 8.5+ reviews. Pikmin 2 has a 90 on metacritic and this one looks/sounds like a marked improvement. The presentation looks ace, the gameplay has been refined, and there is nothing quite like it. I think it will get a fair share of 9+ review scores.
There should have been online multi player. None of my buddies as of yet have a Wii U, and I'm certain at least 100k Wii U owners in NA will get the game on its first month... so it'd have been nice to have the local multi player be online as well. Nintendo should have nothing afraid of in that regard. Have internal studios whose goal is to provide network play to Nintendo's titles... NSMBU would have been great with online multi. So would have Nintendo Land... especially Nintendo Land. The game is a riot on local play. But unfortunately I can't have my buddies over all the time to play NL with me. Online play would have fixed that with the quickness. Hell, it would probably have provided more hype for the game after it became available.
The Librarian
Banned
I'm a bit confused. Have you played the game? Because to me, you're coming across as having formed an opinion on a mechanic that's been altered in a sequel without having played it. And that's a bit silly to me.
Carpe Libertatem
Member
These two sentences seem to be arguing different things.
Someone brought up the point that if Pikmin needed online multiplayer, then so did Bioshock Infinite. It's a silly argument considering Pikmin is largely a single player adventure.
GiantBreadbug
Member
Finding out about the altered swarming did assuage my fears a bit. I'm going to have to wait until I play to say for sure whether the control scheme is to my liking.
I disagree. Purples were incredibly useful in combat (it could be easily argued that they were broken, but that could've been fixed). And Whites could detect buried objects. Plus they were the fastest Pikmin. Their abilities could've had many more applications had the team chosen to include them.
Your second point is kinda what I'm saying. If they had wanted to, they could've designed the game in such a way that all seven types see use in new and interesting ways. They chose not to, and that's fine. But I'm a little bummed that they didn't.
I don't think it's like Mario's power-ups though. The difference is strictly in the volume. I feel seven types is just the right amount to have a really diverse and constantly changing experience. And clearly the game wasn't designed for all seven. It'll be okay, I'm sure the experience will be fantastic.
It's just an idea that will be in the back of my mind. Like, "Oh it would've been cool to use Purples and Whites in this place like so and so." But I'll get over it.
I don't think it's silly to have an opinion on something I haven't experienced firsthand as long as I acknowledge that fact and say that that's just the way I feel knowing what I do. Which is what I'm doing. I'm taking what I've been told and forming an opinion on it. But I'm going to great lengths to make sure you guys know that it's just the way I feel about it right now. I'm not saying that what I think is the ultimate truth.
Personally, I felt overwhelmed by 5 types in Pikmin 2. I never fully beat the game when I realized I'd need to harvest a ton of Pikmin to even carry some of the items. Not to mention I really didn't like the randomly-generated caves. Yes, I was one of the oddballs that preferred Pikmin 1 to 2.
GiantBreadBug, I look forward to your impressions in early August.
GiantBreadBug, I look forward to your impressions in early August.
metalslimer
Member
That's kind of silly though because the game had 0 mp. Pikmin is largely a sp based game but the type of game it is screams for online play or coop. Im just disappointed that's all. I'll pick it up day 1i get a wiiu.
I certainly though it was better but it was because i felt the level design in 1was definitely superior. 3's level design looks awesome though.
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
It didn't, Pikmin 3 is its first time appearing. I was a little worried about it at first, since the motion plus aiming in Skyward Sword felt solid but really slow, but I actually couldn't even tell if Pikmin 3 was using motion plus or not when I was aiming (I played at one of the Wii U Experience events, last year). Only when I put my hand over the front of the remote and the pointer continued to move with no interruption did I realize it was just a motion plus scheme that had been tweaked to be much faster and more responsive than the Skyward Sword implementation.
Never had a MotionPlus Wii remote. Only the basic ones. I'll go order one! Cheers
It may go without saying, but be sure you've got a nunchuck as well. If you don't have a normal remote, I'm guessing you might not have a nunchuck lying around either.
Well I'll admit Pikmin is the type of game that could have online play, I don't think it should be docked for that. It's just not where development resources went.
Same way Bioshock could have had online multiplayer (Bioshock 2 had it).
The games should be reviewed on the merit of what the game is rather than what they should-have or could-have had. I understand a reviewer complaining they finished the game too fast and more multiplayer options would help the longevity, but not complaining and docking points simply for a mode they wish was there.
Nah, I've got a standard Wii Remote + Nunchuck. Does the same old Nunchuck work with the new Wii Remote Plus?
Tathanen
Get Inside Her!
Ah okay. Yeah there's only one Nunchuck, it works with everything.
Sweet. Cheers dude!
The Librarian
Banned
That's not the impression you gave out, especially with a statement like this:
How do you know it's awful when you've yet to try it out?
Yeah, you don't need a new nunchuck.
Ah, late. Well, I'm really looking forward to Pikmin 3! I've been trying to keep myself away from stuff like Cheesemeister's videos to avoid spoiling myself on the locations, etc. Famitsu being the only review so far is kinda sad, though.
metalslimer
Member
Fair enough.No 60 fps isa bigger disappointment anyway when literally every other wiiu game outside of X we knowrunsat 60
GiantBreadbug
Member
Perhaps my wording was a bit strong, forgive me. Again, I didn't begin that post with "In my humble opinion and having not yet played the game." But that's what the idea was. I still think it's bad to remove elements that work and work well. How it ends up effecting the experience is something I'll be able to comment on after I play.
Any idea when the embargo's due to lift?
My god what happened here? Suddenly people are eating each other up for really no reason. I'll put my thoughts on the topic:
1) No Online- Actually, I too hope this game gets docked for No online mode, now before you rip my head off hear me out. I'm not one for the all-games-have-to-be-online trend that's been going on this generation. In fact, I always criticize developers who include it "just because". I think it's a lot of time wasted for mechanics that aren't even usable in multiplayer modes. Enter Pikmin 3, this series is one my favorites, and has grown a lot on me over the course of the last few years. It's so unique and fresh that I really do think P3 has a very high chance to win my overall GOTY this year. Having said that, one of the core reasons why this title resonates with me is multitasking, they even went to great lengths to ensure all characters, along with their pikmin, continue to do various activities throughout the day without ever stopping. This, to me, sounds like the perfect recipe for a mutliplayer game, they even toyed with the concept back in Pikmin 2, and it was brilliant!
Having online multiplayer means I could enjoy this title with my family across the world, a feature much less deserving titles offer. This is not an either/or situation, we could have both local and online multiplayer at the same time, but alas it was not meant to be. So I do hope some points get docked so that Nintendo pays attention next time. Remember, we always complain about reviewers giving games free passes, let's support them this time around to show them that being hard sometimes is a good thing.
2) No swarming - I have to say, I completely understand where Giant BreadBug is coming from, charge attacks and evasions are just not the same thing. When you are swarming you are having direct control over their movement. It felt somewhat unnatural to control 100 characters at once, but it works, it is such a unique feature and these new mechanics don't make up for it. I'm sorry, but they don't. On the other hand, The game has made some strides to keep the advantages of swarming intact. Advanced AI (relatively speaking) really has demonstrated that the pikmin will still behave as you want them to, so that's good news.
3) No purple/White Pikmin in main campaign - Ok, this one I have a small beef with. I too would have loved using all 7 types at once, but looking at the characteristics of the purple and white pikmin, it will just not work. Sure, they could nerf them a bit, but then they will be there just for the sake of being there. The two types worked great in P2 because of the sublevels, those challanges were condensed with enemies that you virtually need Purple Pikmin to advance. White Pikmin are also overpowered compared to the rest since they are much faster and can kill bosses if only three of them were eaten. Pikmin 3 does not operate like that, this game is all about the fast open surface and you are free to explore and solve puzzles. Other than the dig mechanics, those two types really don't offer any puzzle-solving benefits. So they just don't make sense. They do appear in challenge mode though, which is also appropriate since I assume the challenges will operate similarly to the sub levels of P2.
4) No "Treasures" - *shrug*, I think fruit is better really. Yeah yeah we don't get those cool remarks, but the way you collect these items is much more interesting.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I wanted to chime in the discussion.
1) No Online- Actually, I too hope this game gets docked for No online mode, now before you rip my head off hear me out. I'm not one for the all-games-have-to-be-online trend that's been going on this generation. In fact, I always criticize developers who include it "just because". I think it's a lot of time wasted for mechanics that aren't even usable in multiplayer modes. Enter Pikmin 3, this series is one my favorites, and has grown a lot on me over the course of the last few years. It's so unique and fresh that I really do think P3 has a very high chance to win my overall GOTY this year. Having said that, one of the core reasons why this title resonates with me is multitasking, they even went to great lengths to ensure all characters, along with their pikmin, continue to do various activities throughout the day without ever stopping. This, to me, sounds like the perfect recipe for a mutliplayer game, they even toyed with the concept back in Pikmin 2, and it was brilliant!
Having online multiplayer means I could enjoy this title with my family across the world, a feature much less deserving titles offer. This is not an either/or situation, we could have both local and online multiplayer at the same time, but alas it was not meant to be. So I do hope some points get docked so that Nintendo pays attention next time. Remember, we always complain about reviewers giving games free passes, let's support them this time around to show them that being hard sometimes is a good thing.
2) No swarming - I have to say, I completely understand where Giant BreadBug is coming from, charge attacks and evasions are just not the same thing. When you are swarming you are having direct control over their movement. It felt somewhat unnatural to control 100 characters at once, but it works, it is such a unique feature and these new mechanics don't make up for it. I'm sorry, but they don't. On the other hand, The game has made some strides to keep the advantages of swarming intact. Advanced AI (relatively speaking) really has demonstrated that the pikmin will still behave as you want them to, so that's good news.
3) No purple/White Pikmin in main campaign - Ok, this one I have a small beef with. I too would have loved using all 7 types at once, but looking at the characteristics of the purple and white pikmin, it will just not work. Sure, they could nerf them a bit, but then they will be there just for the sake of being there. The two types worked great in P2 because of the sublevels, those challanges were condensed with enemies that you virtually need Purple Pikmin to advance. White Pikmin are also overpowered compared to the rest since they are much faster and can kill bosses if only three of them were eaten. Pikmin 3 does not operate like that, this game is all about the fast open surface and you are free to explore and solve puzzles. Other than the dig mechanics, those two types really don't offer any puzzle-solving benefits. So they just don't make sense. They do appear in challenge mode though, which is also appropriate since I assume the challenges will operate similarly to the sub levels of P2.
4) No "Treasures" - *shrug*, I think fruit is better really. Yeah yeah we don't get those cool remarks, but the way you collect these items is much more interesting.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I wanted to chime in the discussion.
The Librarian
Banned
It was, but you're fine.
Had you originally said it like that I don't think anybody would have had a problem with what you were saying. Tone can be just as important to what you're saying as the content.Also, nice wall of text, ASIS.
TheRedSnifit
Member
I dunno. I personally found it obnoxious to have a bunch of white Pikmin tag along because there might be an underground object. Maybe that's just me, though.
It was, but you're fine.
Also, nice wall of text, ASIS.
Thanks >_>
Now I know how Kojima feels when he's writing
.Hero of Canton
Member
Purples and whites aren't missed at all. Lack of swarming ostensibly is a shame but particularly with the remote controls it's never really required.
Of All Trades
Member
What the game "is" is a $60 piece of software up against other $60 pieces of software. If game A is as good as Game B as offline games, but Game B has online multi while Game A doesn't, then consumer reports-esque reviews (which are common to games, TV and movies, less so music, books, etc) will tend to "dock" Game A for not delivering the same value.
BruiserBear
Banned
I've grown so tired of this shit it's almost enough to make me skip the game.
Bullshit, I started Pikmin 2 today and it interrupts you waaaay more often than 3 does to tell you shit you already know. I watched the first few days of 3 on youtube, its nowhere near as intrusive as 2.
That post is absolutely correct, thats all there is to this supposed "hand-holding".
Subtervotion
Member
As far as online mutli is concerened, sometimes (most of the time) I don't have my friends come over to play local multi. It's just more convenient to play online and not leave our houses. Mainly because I live over 30 minutes away from all my friends. Plus theres also no screen sharing. Having your own screen is great.
And personally I think Pikmin would be a great game for co-op story mode, which isnt in for some reason. Nintendo really doesn't understand multiplayer. Bingo battle, yeah.... no. Just my opinions.
And personally I think Pikmin would be a great game for co-op story mode, which isnt in for some reason. Nintendo really doesn't understand multiplayer. Bingo battle, yeah.... no. Just my opinions.
Alright cool beans.
Even if the game was hardcore with the handholding, I probably won't even give a shit. I tolerated and even liked the handholding in Skyward Sword.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
Wasn't there a time when Famitsu was a big deal? Seriously. Am I misremembering?
PhoenixDawn
Member
I think there is some form of co-op, similar to what Pikmin 2 had. Which was a collection of missions of varying length where you had to accomplish certain tasks like collect as much fruit as you can, defeat as many enemies as you can, or beat a stage while racing against the clock.
Well, it took just over 10 years for their first 40/40. Then that stopped being as special when we saw them about every other year, then became a joke once multiples per year were the norm rather than the exception, checking quickly 2009 had 4.
to remember ryan of giant bomb
Lord_Byron28
Member
Chances are you probably wouldve brought them along to take out poison barriers or maybe sacrificed a few for really tricky enemies (I don't think I personally ever did as I felt guilty sacrificing my other pikmin to convert them to purple/white). I liked purple/white pikmin and miss them in the main game but I do feel thethere may have been too many types to juggle between. Also rock/winged pikmin seem a lot more useful and integral to the design like the original trio. Purple/White pikmin felt more like powerups.
Snowden's Secret
Banned
I personally think white Pikmin got cut because they didn't fit with the overarching play goals of most players: Don't let your Pikmin die. A Pikmin that is only useful in death is useless for players trying to not lose guys.
ADANIEL1960
Neo Member
It was always a tradeoff with your average loss on type of monster as to whether to use the whites.
DashReindeer
Lead Community Manager, Outpost Games
Very little hand-holding in the game. Tutorial texts, are brief, unintrusive, and optional. Seriously, someone is making this shit up.
There's way too much negative comments in this thread when most of you haven't even played the game.
It's Pikmin, and its charming and gorgeous. It's a beautiful world to explore. As soon as you start playing, you will very quickly forget about all those so-called shortcomings of the game.
It's Pikmin and Miyamoto at the finest.
It's Pikmin, and its charming and gorgeous. It's a beautiful world to explore. As soon as you start playing, you will very quickly forget about all those so-called shortcomings of the game.
It's Pikmin and Miyamoto at the finest.
fuzzyreactor
Banned
Was looking forward to this, but no online? Seriously Nintendo?
How is that not selective reading, just to have something negative to say? This has been debunked few posts below Anth0ny's post.
Just beat the game last night.
Enjoyed every moment of it, but was a little disappointed at the lack of worlds, despite their size and scope. One thing I loved about Pikmin 2 was the depth and variety.
Clocked about 12 hours in total. Going to go back and get the rest of the stuff now.
Enjoyed every moment of it, but was a little disappointed at the lack of worlds, despite their size and scope. One thing I loved about Pikmin 2 was the depth and variety.
Clocked about 12 hours in total. Going to go back and get the rest of the stuff now.