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Pillars of Eternity by Obsidian Entertainment (Kickstarter) [Up: Teaser]

SerRodrik

Member
On the topic of interfaces, Josh Sawyer said on the Obsidian forums that this fan mockup isn't far from what they're exploring now.

iMaaVYAinXEqY.png
 

Purkake4

Banned
That's certainly better than the IWD2 looking one before. They should figure out something better to do with status effects than just putting them on the portraits, that got pretty ridiculous at higher levels.
 
On the topic of interfaces, Josh Sawyer said on the Obsidian forums that this fan mockup isn't far from what they're exploring now.

hm I'd prefer having the character icons on the top left or right side of the screen, I don't know... just seems easier to look at, also I think most people might be used to it but other than that something like this could do the job. nice and simple
 

SerRodrik

Member
One thing I like about that version is that while it takes up less space, it doesn't feel as minimalist as some recent interfaces because it retains the materials and details like the pillars and statues. It seems like a reasonable compromise.
 

injurai

Banned
will read in morning, but I really like the diversity even within a species that they are giving. One of my questions that they answered in an interview pertained to crafting distant lands and unique cultures.

Looks like they are getting the cultures down just fine.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
really the class design in this game seems to be in a whole level of its own, I'm really excited about how everything about these classes sounds, a lot of variety and personality for each and they all seem to have some original twist.

hairy orlans sound cool, I may do one on a late playthrough
 

Labadal

Member
It will be interesting to see how much your choice of race will play in the game.

The paladin class sounds interesting enough. It'll be interesting to see how it fits the game once they show combat gameplay.
 
I just love reading these updates. Some of the names of places and races seem a bit too over the top fantastical but they are really doing one hell of a job world building for this game.
 

Phandy

Member
I wonder if they'll release their vertical slice to the players to get feedback and stuff. Could be a very interesting approach if they do.

Vertical slices are typically shown to publishers to greenlight the rest of the project, so its interesting that they have done one.
 

injurai

Banned
I wonder if they'll release their vertical slice to the players to get feedback and stuff. Could be a very interesting approach if they do.

Vertical slices are typically shown to publishers to greenlight the rest of the project, so its interesting that they have done one.

i doubt it, there is going to be an closed beta though
 

zkylon

zkylewd
New update

* some stuff about the animats, animated armor spirit people. apparently they really like bronze

* pics:

pe-animat-01-lrg.jpg


pe-animat-02-lrg.jpg


* mca will continue with arcanum after rezzed

* vine stuff
 

FACE

Banned
<3 Tim.

Didn't <3 this update, though. Not a fan of the MMO-ish crafting nor a fan of the durability system.
 

robin2

Member
I think we need to know how the other skills work to get the full picture. My guess is that they want them to be few and simple, yet meaningful. Thus the introduction of durability for the craft skill: this being used for repairing too, isn't "outweighed" anymore by the other skills, like it would be without the repair function.

In general I don't want a carbon copy of Baldur's Gate. And these are actually *additions* to what BG offered, I'm very fine with "more" for once, since nowadays get always get "less" from sequel/spiritual successors.
 

FACE

Banned
I think we need to know how the other skills work to get the full picture. My guess is that they want them to be few and simple, yet meaningful. Thus the introduction of durability for the craft skill: this being used for repairing too, isn't "outweighed" anymore by the other skills, like it would be without the repair function.

In general I don't want a carbon copy of Baldur's Gate. And these are actually *additions* to what BG offered, I'm very fine with "more" for once, since nowadays get always get "less" from sequel/spiritual successors.

Adding things isn't necessarily good, specially when the mechanic added seems to be an annoyance at best.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Weapon/armor degradation should be reserved for games like System Shock 2 where it's related to scarcity and sense of dread in progression. This sounds like an MMORPG money sink, which has no useful function in a single player RPG.
 

injurai

Banned
Weapon/armor degradation should be reserved for games like System Shock 2 where it's related to scarcity and sense of dread in progression. This sounds like an MMORPG money sink, which has no useful function in a single player RPG.

Degradation worked fine in Diablo 2, but that's because you cycled out equipment. So it became a factor of upkeep vs replacement.

The question is how loot driven will the combat be. Will combat be taking a sideline to story or will they be given equal footing.
 

robin2

Member
Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3/NV have that too though (and it would be a loss if removed).

I'm fine with everything that involves me more as a player, and I like simulative mechanics so equipment degradation makes more sense that indestructible stuff. In my opinion there's too much that we don't know to say "mmorpg annoyance"; maybe the way adventuring happens, the degradation is actually a meaningful factor.
 

FACE

Banned
Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3/NV have that too though (and it would be a loss if removed).

I'm fine with everything that involves me more as a player, and I like simulative mechanics so equipment degradation makes more sense that indestructible stuff. In my opinion there's too much that we don't know to say "mmorpg annoyance"; maybe the way adventuring happens, the degradation is actually a meaningful factor.

These are games where scarcity of resources is an integral part of the lore and ES isn't very good, so it shouldn't be used as an example for good game design.

If they wanted to make it more "simulation-y" then stuff like whetstones and different types of blows causing different amounts/types of damage to your equipment would have to be implemented, which doesn't seem to be the case. For now it looks more like a moneysink than anything else.
 

Minsc

Gold Member
Betrayal at Krondor had weapon/armor durability in a similar manner and it was enjoyable and added to the depth and enjoyment of the gameplay a little I thought.
 

duckroll

Member
From the update, I get the sense that durability's entire purpose here is to give an additional perk to characters who have a crafting skill. It could be an interesting dynamic in the sense that if you consider what skills to pick, crafting will serve as both an active skill as well as serving a secondary economic advantage since you will be spending less on equipment upkeep in general. It doesn't really bother me, but it doesn't excite me either. I'm definitely more interested in what other skills they have to showcase.
 

Labadal

Member
Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3/NV have that too though (and it would be a loss if removed).

I'm fine with everything that involves me more as a player, and I like simulative mechanics so equipment degradation makes more sense that indestructible stuff. In my opinion there's too much that we don't know to say "mmorpg annoyance"; maybe the way adventuring happens, the degradation is actually a meaningful factor.

It didn't bother me in those games because I didn't have six characters (+the other characters currently not in your party that might have broken gear) to think about. It was all me. Everything I collected went to my one character. Therefore, item durability wasn't a big issue.

I won't judge yet, but I'm usually not very fond of the mechanic in games that lets me control more than one character.
 

Zeliard

Member
From the update, I get the sense that durability's entire purpose here is to give an additional perk to characters who have a crafting skill. It could be an interesting dynamic in the sense that if you consider what skills to pick, crafting will serve as both an active skill as well as serving a secondary economic advantage since you will be spending less on equipment upkeep in general. It doesn't really bother me, but it doesn't excite me either. I'm definitely more interested in what other skills they have to showcase.

Yeah I think it's hard to tell how the crafting skill will fit in - and durability by extension - until we put it in its proper context with the rest of the skills.

The end of Cain's blog post basically notes that with crafting's clearly great advantages regarding repairing and minimizing hits to individual durability, it's a no-brainer to take it, but that'll have to be balanced out against other skills you'll miss out on.

It's possible that without a durability system, you'd be tempted to put crafting on a single character and leave it at that. Durability adds a lot more value to the skill, but we'll have to wait and see what you'd be omitting by choosing it.
 

Labadal

Member
I'll most probably have my melee characters be my crafters if that is an option. Crafting means better durability for items. Who is going to be hit and hit back the most? Melee fighters.
 

dude

dude
I think there is also some charm in micro-managing durability - as long as it's not too bothersome. So far, it seems they're on the right path - Weapon won't break and there are plenty of ways to make sure your weapons are in fine condition. I'm not too worried about that.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
from the update durability doesn't sound too exciting but I don't really mind it. I kinda like the idea of a risk-reward thing coming from the upkeep cost of higher level weapons and whatnot
 

Sentenza

Member
from the update durability doesn't sound too exciting but I don't really mind it. I kinda like the idea of a risk-reward thing coming from the upkeep cost of higher level weapons and whatnot
I didn't like the idea in general, and I don't think it's a mechanic that fits a PARTY-BASED RPG (even just the idea of going on repairing equipment for all the guys in my team more than once already bores me to tears) but when Sawyer basically confirmed that it's specifically intended to be just a money sink for the player... Well, that's when I was absolutely sure this feature should have no place in this game.
 

FACE

Banned
I didn't like the idea in general, and I don't it's a mechanic that fits a PARTY-BASED RPG (even just the idea of going on repairing equipment for all the guys in my team more than once already bores me to tears) but when Sawyer basically confirmed that it's specifically intended to be just a money sink for the player... Well, that's when I was absolutely sure this feature should have no place in this game.

Yeah, I saw that. The durability system is intended to serve as a moneysink for those that do not have a stronghold which is all sorts of dumb.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
I didn't like the idea in general, and I don't it's a mechanic that fits a PARTY-BASED RPG (even just the idea of going on repairing equipment for all the guys in my team more than once already bores me to tears) but when Sawyer basically confirmed that it's specifically intended to be just a money sink for the player... Well, that's when I was absolutely sure this feature should have no place in this game.

vendors/forges will most likely have buttons for "repair all the stuff equipped on this dude", "repair all the stuff equipped on all my dudes", "repair all my stuff", so I'm sure it'll be painless.

besides, "Items have lots of units of durability, and they do not suffer any negative effects until those units are completely gone.", it's not like they're setting it as a thing you do every five minutes

it's a trade-off for not investing into crafting, a not very interesting trade-off ofc but imo nothing worth such a reaction

edit: you're free to hate it, I just like waiting until I know more stuff before going up in arms since I have a lot of trust in jesawyer's design skills. it's a feature that sound harmless at best, no denying that, tho
 

Sensuki

Neo Member
As per this post in Something Awful it also appears that all skills are being designed with a degradable over-time combat benefit to match the usefulness of the Stealth skill (meaning that you can get closer to a fight before noticed with X stealth skill points).

I think that's over-designing / over-unification of mechanics. YMMV.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
As per this post in Something Awful it also appears that all skills are being designed with a degradable over-time combat benefit to match the usefulness of the Stealth skill (meaning that you can get closer to a fight before noticed with X stealth skill points).

I think that's over-designing / over-unification of mechanics. YMMV.
I didn't get that at all from the post you're linking to

read it again please
 

Sensuki

Neo Member
I don't see how you're missing the link

Survival skill in FN:V - leveling up the skill increases duration/effect of consumables (per-character sliding benefit)

Stealth skill in P:E - leveling up the stealth skill allows a character to get closer to combat without being noticed (per-character sliding benefit)

Item Durability from Crafting in P:E - leveling up the skill reduces the rate of item degradation (per-character sliding benefit)

"Cynical approach: Hey guys we removed item durability, now it's a damage bonus!" - leveling up the skill reduces the rate the damage is removed (damage in P:E is tracked by floats not integers so it counts fractions) (per-character sliding benefit).
 
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