Mister_Bubbles
Member
Double the money doesn't necessarily mean double the working (or writing) speed. Also, this is Obsidian, and for the first time they aren't beholden to an enforced deadline. This will take as long to make as they want, no doubt
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Pillars of Eternity by Obsidian Entertainment (Kickstarter) [Up: Teaser]
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Double the money doesn't necessarily mean double the working (or writing) speed. Also, this is Obsidian, and for the first time they aren't beholden to an enforced deadline. This will take as long to make as they want, no doubt
Too much time/money wasted for Mac and Linux ports and the middleware is too expensive.
oh, didn't know unity supports Linux too now, makes sense.
whalleywhat
Member
lol
I think there'd be iOS/Android ports before a WiiU port. Regardless I don't think they're going to be adding anymore platforms until post-release.
Shake Appeal
Member
Not unless the Wii U supports a mouse and keyboard...
whalleywhat
Member
Avellone was raging about console limitations in one of those interviews, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
Cute Dragon Here
Member
But it does have a big touch screen, but yeah, the chances are pretty small anyway. Besides, it's probably one of these games that are better off in computer-land.
WorstUsernameEver
Member
I think it depends largely on the kind of design they're going for. The IE titles have always been, with the exception of Torment, combat-oriented tactical titles, and I feel that it's just fair to make the system transparent there so you know that combat will be important and don't feel penalized when you don't put points into it. I feel that was something that Arcanum was pretty bad at.
Fixed.
ChosenPredator
Banned
wish i had 5k to pledge just to get into that character design for the evil squad - i wonder what those 5 guys are writing up.
whalleywhat
Member
That Bishop Vick fight in Bloodlines. :/
WorstUsernameEver
Member
True, Bloodlines was awful at that too, but in that case, I always felt it was less design (I mean, Arcanum's main story could have easily have been designed to include less dungeons, that was their call) and more lack of time to implement alternative routes through the post-Chinatown game. The stuff I've read from the Troika's team about it, kind of corroborates it. But regardless, yeah, a system like the one they've put on the table right now should limit those problems, hopefully.
WorstUsernameEver
Member
Robert Nesler. And what's the problem with it? Keep in mind that the *boobage wizard* is not concept art for the game but a much older piece from Brian Menze which, if I recall correctly, wasn't even meant to be part of any title but just for a prototype/test.
Double the money doesn't necessarily mean double the working (or writing) speed. Also, this is Obsidian, and for the first time they aren't beholden to an enforced deadline. This will take as long to make as they want, no doubt
They are beholden to "Up until the money runs out", though!
taku
Member
Ugh, well that explains it. I don't know, man.. I don't like his style at all.
"Welcome to the wonderful world of generic PC FANTASY RPG NR.XX"
I learned much earlier - the prosthetics guy. Had to reroll a new character.
You should have backed Shadowrun Returns then.
I agree. Beyond limiting the character build options, it also doesn't make much sense in terms of "realism". If my mage is studying how to cast a fireball, he's not studying herbology.
I'd rather have both the points for combat and non-combat abilities in one pool and the freedom to distribute them as I see fit. Arcanum was great about this.
I basically agree, but your example of Arcanum is why I warmed up to the approach they're taking - it could get quite frustrating as times.
Arcanum was what I was thinking too.
The difference between Eternity and Arcanum is that there are classes here. So what can be done is to categorise skills based on class (primary, secondary,...) and give weights to each category. Similar to Bloodlines.
Mystic Theurge
Member
Why can't he study both? People study multiple subjects in school all the time.
The problem is that in the current system (far as we can deduce from the info available) your character learns something from each category whether you like it or not.
But did they do that in medieval times as well (I honestly don't know, I was only interested in the warfare parts when medieval history was the subject in school
)?EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I absolutely, positively prefer skill based sandbox-esque character development to class specific skill sets, bugs, imbalances, problems and all. It's the most exciting aspect of CRPG design in my opinion, and makes for more interesting, emergent gameplay styles and character builds. Even if 99% of the time the game surrounding such these skill systems cannot accommodate the wide scope of builds, and is thus easy to break.
For this reason Arcanum has, without a doubt, my favourite character sheet ever, and even with it's imbalanced and arguably broken game world, it's the game I feel best captures the general philosophy of CRPG design. At least, in terms of granting players a near unlimited scope of skill/ability combinations, and so allowing them to truly 'role play' as anyone they wish, in a world that allows them to do such.
I also think that aside from the more broken stretches of gameplay (hello mines), Arcanum is littered with phenomenal quest/world design that accounts for an massive variety of play styles and builds.
I'm not down on class based skill trees, and can see the logic of such things in party based games. And, to be honest, this direction always leads to more polished, tactical and better 'playing' combat systems for RPGs. But I'll be damned if I'm not much more enthralled and fascinated by full skill trees.
EDIT: The above fireball Mage / herbology example is exactly why I like skills versus class. It doesn't matter how 'realistic' or what argument can be made for characters/classes behaving a particular way because the developers want them to. The skill system simply says that if you can make something work, if you want to make it possible, you can do so. Just like the real world, even if it leads to difficulties down the road. If you absolutely want to study fireball casting and herbology, you can, because there's no real reason you shouldn't be able to except for arbitrary design restrictions.
For this reason Arcanum has, without a doubt, my favourite character sheet ever, and even with it's imbalanced and arguably broken game world, it's the game I feel best captures the general philosophy of CRPG design. At least, in terms of granting players a near unlimited scope of skill/ability combinations, and so allowing them to truly 'role play' as anyone they wish, in a world that allows them to do such.
I also think that aside from the more broken stretches of gameplay (hello mines), Arcanum is littered with phenomenal quest/world design that accounts for an massive variety of play styles and builds.
I'm not down on class based skill trees, and can see the logic of such things in party based games. And, to be honest, this direction always leads to more polished, tactical and better 'playing' combat systems for RPGs. But I'll be damned if I'm not much more enthralled and fascinated by full skill trees.
EDIT: The above fireball Mage / herbology example is exactly why I like skills versus class. It doesn't matter how 'realistic' or what argument can be made for characters/classes behaving a particular way because the developers want them to. The skill system simply says that if you can make something work, if you want to make it possible, you can do so. Just like the real world, even if it leads to difficulties down the road. If you absolutely want to study fireball casting and herbology, you can, because there's no real reason you shouldn't be able to except for arbitrary design restrictions.
But did they do that in medieval times as well (I honestly don't know, I was only interested in the warfare parts when medieval history was the subject in school
Why does it matter? It's a fantasy game, it doesn't need to be based on our history at all.
I'd argue that every mage with half a brain would know that casting a fireball alone isn't going to help him much. In terms of realism I think that it's much more unlikely that someone would concentrate completely on just one aspect...
I agree with the caveat that it may be beneficial to add weights to different type of skills. Because not every skill is going to be equally useful however well you design the world.
Mystic Theurge
Member
Maybe you'll be able to accumulate points without spending them.
But did they do that in medieval times as well (I honestly don't know, I was only interested in the warfare parts when medieval history was the subject in school
Project Eternity's world isn't Earth circa Medieval Times.
No, but it sure seems close.
That doesn't change anything because you can't spend stat points from one category in another.
But did they do that in medieval times as well (I honestly don't know, I was only interested in the warfare parts when medieval history was the subject in school
Universities in Europe were founded in the Middle Ages and they studied all subjects.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Not necessarily. If youve played Bloodlines youve played a game like this. Skills are broken down into three different categories. Talents, Skills, and Knowledges. Only two of those categories have combat abilities. All have non-combat abilities. Starting Clan (class) determines which category is Primary, Secondary, or Tertiary. So for example physical clans have more points to spend in Talents, mental Clans have more points to spend in Knowledges, etc.
edit: i prefer skill based systems but it depends on how rigid the class system is. If class is something that is more about determining where your character starts and how people see them in the world (think Clans from Vampire Bloodlines) then i have no problem at all. Since this is Obsidian im not worried that skill building will be absent. i doubt things are going to be like 2E AD&D.
Mystic Theurge
Member
Not really. I'm bad at history but I'm pretty sure there were no elves, dwarfs, magic, etc during Medieval Times.
You're probably right. Ah well, that's what mods are for.
Yes, I've played Bloodlines, and that's pretty much the type of system I want Eternity to have. Skills categorised but draw from a single stat pool, and cost different amounts (attributes cost different from talents and disciplines, and so on). That's not the case with Eternity. You gain different sets of stat points to spend in respective stat categories. Which means your character learns something from each category whether you want or not.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Do we know more than just the herbalism vs fireball quote? Because how you are describing it is not how im imagining things here.
Are we sure that's the case here? It'd be pretty disappointing if what you're saying is true.
Yes, I totally meant those and not the society in general.
How do we deduce from this that the game has single stat pool?:
Unless you have multiple stat point pools how do you not have to choose between magic missile and herbalism? (Assuming magic missile and herbalism belong to separate categories)
Eh, I don't see a huge problem with forcing a baseline split between combat and non-combat skills as long as there's lots of ways to build your characters inside it. I trust Obsidian in coming up with something fun to use regardless.
In pure gameplay terms it's nice to know that even pure fighters will get some cool non-combat stuff to play with, and vice versa, without gimping it.
In pure gameplay terms it's nice to know that even pure fighters will get some cool non-combat stuff to play with, and vice versa, without gimping it.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
Again thats not how im imagining it. i felt that the comment was vague as to not limit themselves. With the meager info we have there could be several different ways to accomplish such a thing. Maybe magic is tied to something else.. souls in this case. Are spells like in DA:O or Arcanum where you spend skill points to access them or is magic something you can scribe or learn from situations like Planescape or AD&D? We know souls tie into magic but mechanics-wise we dont knowt much so maybe there are different ways to gain access via souls (stealing them vs befriending spirits vs making pacts) and this leaves xp upgrades for skills?
There is still a ton we dont know yet.
There'll be a Paypal option soon, just use that.
Well, I hope you're right. Though from what we've heard it seems souls-based abilities are available to every class.
Like you said, it could be like MotB where you get all those spirit eating feats but are not part of levelling system.
It's not the execution I'm worried about, but this is high-level design and I don't want Obsidian to choose an inferior one.
water_wendi
Water is not wet!
i understand and agree. Its just that we dont know much (which is funny because any other game this early on in dev we would know absolutely nothing) and things are still being ironed out. Perhaps well get clarification sooner rather than later or Obsidian will take these concerns into consideration when hammering things out.
It's interesting for me that following these updates is making me think about the design process of an rpg in much more detail. I've never though about how organizing classes and skill can change the lore and world, and how much story actually has taken a downturn in latest years.
It has certainly been a good ride for me, hopefully we'll be able to follow this game closely right up until it launches (and maybe beyond, I would sure like to know more about the design of an expansion pack).
It has certainly been a good ride for me, hopefully we'll be able to follow this game closely right up until it launches (and maybe beyond, I would sure like to know more about the design of an expansion pack).