isaacnukem
Member
Let's hammer Blarg into oblivion: Hawaii. Where all the best pizzas are from.
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Pineapple Pizza Mafia |OT| The War On Fruit Pizza
- Thread starter Sophia
- Start date
With the mass of people coasting in this game it would be harsh to lose Monkey's activity. Scum loves dwindling down talkative town so we shouldn't make their job easy or anything.
I'm just iffy on Sky
What's the point of closing up early? It's not like we won't have things to discuss beyond Blarg.
Although if everyone is going to ghost, maybe it makes sense.
timetokill
Banned
When did hey_monkey become confirmed town?
Obviously it doesn't look good, but I'm not really worried about the optics right now. And like I said, I'm far more confident in Blarg being scum than you, but the worst case scenario in your case is far worse than blarg's.
True, and again, if Blarg is lynched I wouldn't really lose sleep over it. If I had to bet, doing it my way we'd lynch you, find out you were truthful, then turbo Blarg the next day. Hell I'd be first in line for that.
isaacnukem
Member
It's been so long since I played, so long since someone got hammered. Sorry for my short, violent, outbursts. I agree with you.
Natiko flipped miller. Miller seems awfully pointless if there wasn't a town cop. Monkey hasn't been counter claimed (and I'd argue it would make sense to counter claim her, since it would mean 2 scum down in 3 day phases). So I'd give her benefit of the doubt for now.
isaacnukem
Member
Verelios, that is.
No problem, I just feel there's a lot of avenues to pursue, like vanilla island
isaacnukem
Member
That is still open. Hence why Palmer is still my #1 suspect. I know it looks like I'm tunneling now since Palmer has always been on my sights since the first day but I got Swamped right so my theory is 50% into realizing itself as reality.
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
DAY 3 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:
Blargonaut (7)
hey_monkey 2175
Burbeting 2178
Palmer_v1 2180
LaunchpadMcQ 2183 2291
SkyOdin 2276
acohrs 2407
Nomadic Sparks 2408
isaacnukem 2434
hey_monkey (1)
timetokill 2438
timetokill (0):LaunchpadMcQ 2173 2183
SkyOdin (0):Nomadic Sparks 2368 2385
Palmer_v1 (0):isaacnukem 2177 2434
Nomadic Sparks (0):timetokill 2361 2438
No active vote for Day 3: BlackBuzzard, Blargonaut, Darryl, Dr. Worm, Lifeline, LaunchpadMcQ (has previously voted), Verelios, StanleyPalmtree
Day 3 Postcount: acohrs 5, BlackBuzzard 6, Blargonaut 12, Burbeting 39, Darryl 14, Dr. Worm 24, timetokill 11, hey_monkey 42, isaacnukem 16, Lifeline 1, LaunchpadMcQ 35, Nomadic Sparks 14, Palmer_v1 14, Verelios 23, SkyOdin 25, StanleyPalmtree 2
Day 3 ends:
Automated vote tally here
9 votes for majority
Blargonaut (7)
hey_monkey 2175
Burbeting 2178
Palmer_v1 2180
SkyOdin 2276
acohrs 2407
Nomadic Sparks 2408
isaacnukem 2434
hey_monkey (1)
timetokill 2438
timetokill (0):
SkyOdin (0):
Palmer_v1 (0):
Nomadic Sparks (0):
No active vote for Day 3: BlackBuzzard, Blargonaut, Darryl, Dr. Worm, Lifeline, LaunchpadMcQ (has previously voted), Verelios, StanleyPalmtree
Day 3 Postcount: acohrs 5, BlackBuzzard 6, Blargonaut 12, Burbeting 39, Darryl 14, Dr. Worm 24, timetokill 11, hey_monkey 42, isaacnukem 16, Lifeline 1, LaunchpadMcQ 35, Nomadic Sparks 14, Palmer_v1 14, Verelios 23, SkyOdin 25, StanleyPalmtree 2
Day 3 ends:
Automated vote tally here
9 votes for majority
timetokill
Banned
I agree with Launchpads earlier comments why the cop wouldn't and shouldn't counterclaim, besides framer possibilities.
I mean we're in a role madness game and we have like 5 claimed vanilla, so if that's even remotely true we'd likely have some pretty powerful roles.
Just a question TTK. What would monkey's motivation would be to get town Blarg lynched by claiming a cop? No matter how powerful PR Blarg would have, I doubt it would make sense for scum to sacrifice one of their own the next day phase, after Monkey's lie was blown out to the wild.
If you said Blarg was neutral, you would maybe have a case. But even then it doesn't make that much sense.
If you said Blarg was neutral, you would maybe have a case. But even then it doesn't make that much sense.
Palmer has been ducking his vanilla claim since day 2. Hopefully he shows up later to answer some questions I have
This is a dumb idea in 99% of scenarios that will play out. Go look to Final Fantasy mafia for a scenario where a cop didn't counter-claim immediately. Guess what we did? We lynched the real cop who waited too long and let the fake scum cop go. It's extremely unlikely, imo, that we have two town cops. Maybe a neutral and a town one.
We aren't relying on you to be a role hero to win the game, so do so at your own risk. If a cop doesn't counter-claim, every day afterwards is another day we're less likely to believe you in case you're cornered during the day phase. It's a day where your reads risk being lost to night-lynches. It's a day we risk being led astray by Godfathers, of which we can guarantee there to be one if there are two cops. This day phase is being decided based on Blarg being cop-read, the guaranteed nature of there being a cop due to the presence of a miller, and no one counter-claiming thus proving hey_monkey by process of elimination to be the town cop. If you don't claim, and shenanigans happen, it is going to look extremely bad for you. I highly doubt your reads (especially in a two cop, high likelihood of Godfather-fuckery scenario) will be that sick or vital to have been kept secret.
timetokill
Banned
Blarg could be neutral, my point is I don't know.
Besides, monkey gave herself an out by saying she wasn't "sure" Blarg was scum, simply that he wasn't town... hell, maybe monkey has a role where she wins by getting Blarg lynched.
SkyOdin's absolutely bizarre, anti-town behavior and monkey being attached to him doesn't help, either.
Again, I'm not trying to defend Blarg here. I'm simply saying I think it's SAFER and gives town more verified information to lynch hey_monkey first. More facts is always helpful to town, and honestly I'm sort of confused why there's such a pushback against it when if you believe hey_monkey then you recognize that as far as sacrifices go this is the least penalizing one town could hope for.
timetokill
Banned
I'll take a look at that Darryl. I obviously have less mafia experience than most/all of you, I'm just trying to look at this in a prisoner's dilemma kind of method.
Burb, what do you think about Natiko's flip and SkyOdin's claim? You don't find hey_monkey even slightly suspicious in light of such a bizarre claim?
Burb, what do you think about Natiko's flip and SkyOdin's claim? You don't find hey_monkey even slightly suspicious in light of such a bizarre claim?
Natiko's flip means there is a town cop.
Here is the thing about Sky, though. Do I think two scum would do this sort of collaborating claim together, especially after Swamped got just lynched? It feels dumb-foundingly ballsy, and stupid for scum to do.
With sky and monkey, you could argue these two theories:
1. Monkey is town cop, and Sky is scum godfather who got green checked.
2. Monkey is scum who is clearing Sky to gain credibility points.
But both being scum in this situation? Seems very suspect to me, because they would in theory sacrifice two scum to this weird play if they got found out.
1. Monkey is town cop, and Sky is scum godfather who got green checked.
2. Monkey is scum who is clearing Sky to gain credibility points.
But both being scum in this situation? Seems very suspect to me, because they would in theory sacrifice two scum to this weird play if they got found out.
BlackBuzzard
Banned
Yeah i think this would be an insanely stupid plan from scum.
I agree, kind of like you and Palmer jumping, some might say bussing Swamp yesterday.
But my thought process is kind of like this
Palmer+Burb
Monkey=/=Sky
Sky×Launch
Monkey=/=Blarg
So...these are the connections I've found today. Feel free to chip in.
timetokill
Banned
That's a good point, but
The idea that hey_monkey's claim is so readily believed means that she makes herself "unkillable" in the same way that palmer and all the other "vanilla townies" have attempted to.
Of course, her "claiming vanilla" is doing it in a roundabout way... by saying she had a role but exhausted all of its abilities, essentially making her turn into vanilla. regardless it makes town not want to kill her, and also (to her credit) scum not want to kill her.
But with this many supposed vanilla popping up, we know one or more of them is lying.
Do you think there's a chance that hey_monkey is neutral?
The idea that hey_monkey's claim is so readily believed means that she makes herself "unkillable" in the same way that palmer and all the other "vanilla townies" have attempted to.
Of course, her "claiming vanilla" is doing it in a roundabout way... by saying she had a role but exhausted all of its abilities, essentially making her turn into vanilla. regardless it makes town not want to kill her, and also (to her credit) scum not want to kill her.
But with this many supposed vanilla popping up, we know one or more of them is lying.
Do you think there's a chance that hey_monkey is neutral?
It's possible the entire scum team had pushed to save Swamped (in this scenario, we know sky_odin, swamped, blarg, and hey_monkey all tried to prevent Swamped being lynched) and effectively lined themselves up. That would be really cute to find out at the end of the game. Look at what we've been given. Hey_monkey has sold us Blargonaut, the most individually suspect person at the end of the day. Blarg isn't even protesting. Just throwing shade at hey_monkey.
If you think Blarg was already doomed, which was realistic, then it isn't a huge jump whatsoever to sell him downhill and go out guns blazing with a huge gambit.
This thought process is legitimate if we have two town cops. If we don't, it's nuts. Which is why we really need to know if someone isn't telling us something
Yeah, this theory could be plausible, if there wasn't the miller there basically telling us a town cop exists.
Realistically, I don't want our investigative roles to claim if they have fuck all.
Look, I know that I am in no position to say much, since everyone seems to be in argreement that I have been playing terribly. However, do you really want your actions to be ruled by paranoia? I can understand being skeptical of me, since my claim is so audacious and apparently highly mis-timed, but has hey_monkey in particular given you any reason to doubt her? Is there any suspicious actions or behavior she has made that would make you think she was scum.
I can't know 100% for sure that hey_monkey is town. Even though I am town, and she has given me a green check, that doesn't 100% mean that I know she is town. She could be mafia. But then, so could anyone. Under our current situation, it is possible to create scenarios to jusrify any player as scum. But it isn't logical to give equal weight to every possibility. Some are more credible than others.
Right now, Blarg is the one who strikes me as more suspicious than monkey, because of his apparent insider knowledge that Lifeline was targeted by a roleblocker. His lack of an attempt to mount an aggressive defense is also worth consideribg. We won't know for sure until we lynch someone, so we ultimately need to extend our trust to someone, if only temporarily. Spinning in circles and second-guessing every choice only leads to paralysis.
I can't know 100% for sure that hey_monkey is town. Even though I am town, and she has given me a green check, that doesn't 100% mean that I know she is town. She could be mafia. But then, so could anyone. Under our current situation, it is possible to create scenarios to jusrify any player as scum. But it isn't logical to give equal weight to every possibility. Some are more credible than others.
Right now, Blarg is the one who strikes me as more suspicious than monkey, because of his apparent insider knowledge that Lifeline was targeted by a roleblocker. His lack of an attempt to mount an aggressive defense is also worth consideribg. We won't know for sure until we lynch someone, so we ultimately need to extend our trust to someone, if only temporarily. Spinning in circles and second-guessing every choice only leads to paralysis.
I'm inclined to agree with this.
I think that given the numbers we had at the end of yesterday, it's plausible that scum ended up piled on to acohrs; they probably weren't expecting Swamped to go down, and we could continue on today in a similar position to Day 2. If that's the case, then we probably have a decent idea who the scum are, and should we be able to take them down in relatively quick succession.
It's more important that if we have another "cop" that they claim, lest we be played by hey_monkey and SkyOdin, regardless of their reads.
hey_monkey
Banned
If I'd gotten two green checks, I probably wouldn't have claimed unless one of them was on the block. There was no need. But I got a scum, if there's not some weird effect or bastard move in play. And if Natiko is the miller, then that seems less likely, yeah? (question, not argument; y'all know roles better than I)
If Sky and I were scum together, he would know that claiming BP right after I cleared him and fingered Blarg would make me even less believable.
timetokill, I haven't made myself unkillable. I've given myself evidenced proof of value to town, pending a check to see if my info clears. With the things I found on Blarg+Swamped, that's now more likely. All you're giving is a reason for town to kill someone who appears very likely town at this point. And why do that, really? If you're throwing out that my win con could be to kill Blarg, couldn't Blarg's as easily have been to kill Palmer? I mean, we have a lot of people who've voted and mainly pushed one person so far.
On the side of kill Blarg today: purported red check, links to Swamped, slip on LL, no defense, if scum, then we let him run free another day to use whatever power he has
On the side of kill me today: well, you flip me and see if I'm telling the truth, if I'm not, maybe you get Sky and risk his BP trigger if that's true and you lose an active player or two.
Dude, I mean, it's me on the block so I'm biased but also it just doesn't really seem to weigh out.
But I still think we shouldn't turbo because we do need to give time for some other things to happen today (if anyone is gonna claim, for anyone who hasn't had much chance to weigh in, etc). Hash it out. I'm sure other people do have info at this point that it isn't prudent to claim but it can shape arguments.
If Sky and I were scum together, he would know that claiming BP right after I cleared him and fingered Blarg would make me even less believable.
timetokill, I haven't made myself unkillable. I've given myself evidenced proof of value to town, pending a check to see if my info clears. With the things I found on Blarg+Swamped, that's now more likely. All you're giving is a reason for town to kill someone who appears very likely town at this point. And why do that, really? If you're throwing out that my win con could be to kill Blarg, couldn't Blarg's as easily have been to kill Palmer? I mean, we have a lot of people who've voted and mainly pushed one person so far.
On the side of kill Blarg today: purported red check, links to Swamped, slip on LL, no defense, if scum, then we let him run free another day to use whatever power he has
On the side of kill me today: well, you flip me and see if I'm telling the truth, if I'm not, maybe you get Sky and risk his BP trigger if that's true and you lose an active player or two.
Dude, I mean, it's me on the block so I'm biased but also it just doesn't really seem to weigh out.
But I still think we shouldn't turbo because we do need to give time for some other things to happen today (if anyone is gonna claim, for anyone who hasn't had much chance to weigh in, etc). Hash it out. I'm sure other people do have info at this point that it isn't prudent to claim but it can shape arguments.
I had no intention to save Swamped. I had my vote on acohrs, but I was aggressively cutting down attempts to create a third option, if you recall. As I told everyone, I had a good feeling that we had found scum, and I wasn't about to let town second guess themselves and talk themselves out of it. If I had wanted to save Swamped, the easy choice would have been to jump on the Palmer lynch and push it over the edge. There was a strong push to move over to Palmer at the end there, and I think it would have succeeded if one or two more people jumped ship to it. But I wanted no part of that.
I stuck to acohrs for no other reason than I thought his behavior was scummy as hell. I considered moving my vote over to Swamped at the last minute there, but I was in the middle of making lunch during the last ten minutes of the game (I ended up burning it). I know that doesn't mean anything if you don't trust me, but that is the truth.
timetokill
Banned
I think if you took the names out of it and just looked at it as an exercise where you'd want to avoid the worst possible outcome, it's the most rational choice.
hey_monkey
Banned
RIP Sky's lunch.
Husband is on his way back from pineapple cider run, so i'm off again, but two things: I'm glad to see isaac here finally. Huge shift from d1 but it feels more like settling. Is there anyone else we're missing really who hasn't checked in yet?
Husband is on his way back from pineapple cider run, so i'm off again, but two things: I'm glad to see isaac here finally. Huge shift from d1 but it feels more like settling. Is there anyone else we're missing really who hasn't checked in yet?
hey_monkey
Banned
oh ha I didn't even realize. but pineapple cider IS the best cider. pineapple is just GROSS on pizza. shitposter out!
timetokill
Banned
Ya I'm here
I think your logic ignores the reality that time is a factor. Every day phase that goes by, another townie dies. That means losing more useful voices and possibly useful power roles.
Similarly, if Blarg is scum and has a power role, then letting him live another day gives him an opportunity to use it.
Just Stanley, Acorns and our friendly neighborhood town certified Lifeline
So I tried to think about any possibility of a game with only scum cop, but still having a miller in the game.
Only thing I could think of was if the scum team has a hidden partner in the game. Scum could use their scum cop to find out who their hidden partner is, and the miller would exist to throw a bone to their search that way.
Do you think there is any possibility of this?
Even if this was how the game was designed (scum cop + hidden partner), Im not sure why hey_monkey the scum cop would claim. She would be throwing obvious scum-mate Blarg under the bus, but a possible counter claim from town cop would have made her not make a move, for sure?
So, is there a reason you're trying to segue discussion?
I wanted to ask Darryl directly, because I see no reason to trust you or TTK at the moment. And asking monkey about it would be pretty moot point.
What's the worst possible outcome from lynching Blarg? If Blarg isn't scum, then it's trivial to lynch hey_monkey on D4 for a terrible, stupid gambit, because she has no excuse for screwing up that up.
Even if he's being bussed, we take down scum by lynching him. We're one scum down, so even with a five-scum team, we've got 12 townies to 4 scum; Blarg flips scum and tomorrow we're at 11 to 3.
There's being cautious, and then there's making dumb decisions due to paranoia.
timetokill
Banned
No, my logic explicitly acknowledges time as a factor.
If Blarg ends up being town then we give both monkey AND you another day each. 1 vs 2.
Honestly I probably wouldn't have even been this worried if it weren't for your insane behavior though.
But since it looks like we're doing Blarg first anyway I pray he turns out to be scum, otherwise a pineapple pox on all your houses
Gonna go get on the stick for a bit, get my boy Guile some practice, I'll check in when I can
To elaborate more, TTK was possibly the person being protected by scum on D1, and now he is wanting to lynch a claimed cop over a red check. With you ver, you were the one to push acohrs to vote leader from a 4-way tie together with Blarg.
It doesn't make sense. Not really. This would have to be a two step conversion for a hidden partner for a Miller to matter. Mafia doesn't have too many useable night actions assuming they all look like Swamped (a simple role with a single night action). So unless their night actions were devoted to finding and converting this guy, who would have to have some incredible utility, it doesn't make sense. It's as far out there as a role-rewriter at least. Maybe if the game gets really weird
timetokill
Banned
Worst possible outcome is blarg has a power role that helps town, or he's bulletproof or something, and we end up losing it by lynching him. I'm which case we not only have hey_monkey to deal with but probably SkyOdin as well, who could be protected in some way for all we know. Or that Blarg is protected from lynch and monkey is in on that, so the Blarg bus costs us even more. That's not even considering the possible power roles that could actually have if lying.
I just think there are a lot more possible bad outcomes and furthermore confusing outcomes in that sense.
Alright. Wanted to get some input from you on that.
Feels more like cozying up but eh