Support NeoGAF

[SkyOdin]

Does this mean post flip or what? Arguably you'd want to live no?

"you guys should take a closer look at Launchpad if I day, but my role is designed so you'll never kill me"

I wouldn't be bothered if I was NKed by scum or a vigilante. My motivation for claiming weighed avoiding my role triggering and threatening town over just ensuring my own survival. If I wanted just to stay alive, I wouldn't have made my claim and drawn an unnecessary amount of attention to myself. But I was afraid of a last-minute claim not being believed and giving scum an opening to push a lynch against me. That wouldn't just be bad for me, it would be bad for town.

To be honest, I do wonder if me just being assassinated like Dragonz was would be the best option for town at this point. I certainly didn't intend to cause this much confusion and doubt among town. Clearing that up would probably help. I guess I am still bad at predicting how people will react to these things. Well, live and learn I guess.

 

[SkyOdin]

Piggybacking on this, what's everyone's thoughts on a Burb/Palmer team? Individually too, if you don't have an opinion on their collusion.

I got the distinct vibe that they were partners in crime somehow. It feels like they are colluding somehow, but I wiuld need to go back and search the thread to justiify that. My gut leans neutral over scum, though.

 

[SkyOdin]

Care to elaborate?

I don't like how Launch has gone to great effort to throw doubt on my claim by insinuating that I have made a great mistake, while he is being very cagey about the details. He also seems eager to avoid lynching Blarg. He is trying to put the breaks on the lynch. It is nothing definitive, but from my perspective it is sketchy. It feels like he is defending Blarg and trying to get me lynched.

 

[SkyOdin]

I also still have questions about how Launch pushed Swamped heavily during Day 2, but then backed off once the Swamped lynch began to build momentum. It felt like a bus attempt that went out of hand. I think someone else made that observation at the time. Since Swamped flipped scum, I think it is at least worth taking a second look at.

 

[Dr. Worm]

I don't like how Launch has gone to great effort to throw doubt on my claim by insinuating that I have made a great mistake, while he is being very cagey about the details.

You kinda did make a mistake, though.

I don't wanna be mean or anything, but he's right.

He also seems eager to avoid lynching Blarg. He is trying to put the breaks on the lynch.

Blarg's going down anyway. We're delaying the inevitable.

 

[Blargonaut]

alright I'm back, eating breakfast wait up

 

[SkyOdin]

You kinda did make a mistake, though.

I don't wanna be mean or anything, but he's right.

Can someone please elaborate on that and explain that then? Everyone keeps saying that, but for the sake of my growth as a better Mafia player, can one person just make a coherent argument as to why this was a bad play? From my perspective, I am guaranteeing that scum can't, even accidentally, benefit from lynching me and activating my power. It seems that the main negative is that it is making everyone nervous, but no one has said why. Everyone just keeps repeating that it is bad and taking it as a given, which doesn't exactly make anything clear.

 

[Darryl]

Can someone please elaborate on that and explain that then? Everyone keeps saying that, but for the sake of my growth as a better Mafia player, can one person just make a coherent argument as to why this was a bad play? From my perspective, I am guaranteeing that scum can't, even accidentally, benefit from lynching me and activating my power. It seems that the main negative is that it is making everyone nervous, but no one has said why. Everyone just keeps repeating that it is bad and taking it as a given, which doesn't exactly make anything clear.

But we weren't going to lynch you. You're not on the chopping block. Also, you don't know half your role. How do you know someone wasn't tasked to find you, like a neutral? Why reveal a role preemptively when you don't even know what it does?

 

[SkyOdin]

But we weren't going to lynch you. You're not on the chopping block. Also, you don't know half your role. How do you know someone wasn't tasked to find you, like a neutral? Why reveal a role preemptively when you don't even know what it does?

Because I thought that waiting to be on the chopping block would have been too high risk.
Because I thought that giving town more information with which to evalute the various unconfirmed claims and role speculation would narrow down possibilities.
Because I believe the risk of a neutral trying to target me is minimal, since in previous GAFia games the target is warned of that possibility.
Because the unknown part of my role only triggers if I am lynched, which I was hoping to avoid in the first place.

 

[Dr. Worm]

You already had a town check from hey_monkey, and your role claim does nothing for town. Since the best move for you is to be NK'd, there's no reason to not keep mum so scum thinks you may actually be worth killing.

 

[Blargonaut]

 

[Dr. Worm]

You know how people were getting pissed at Palmer_v1, because he acknowledged that he was effectively encouraging the mafia to not shoot him and instead aim at a potentially useful town PR? That's essentially what your claim did.

 

[Blargonaut]

How 'bout some CYOA

Would you like to hear my Role first, or my explanation for my Swamped support and Palmer attack, first?

 

[Darryl]

How 'bout some CYOA

Would you like to hear my Role first, or my explanation for my Swamped support and Palmer attack, first?

The role is the juicy part. So you can do your explanation first

 

[Blargonaut]

The role is the juicy part. So you can do your explanation first

crust first it is then

one sec

 

[Dr. Worm]

crust first it is then

one sec

alrighty, then

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

is it bad that i think LL being against a blarg lynch just makes me more sure of it than ever?

as do I now that Chelsea have lost the cup

:'( :'( :'( :'(

Stan, what do you think of burb?

honestly iv been feeling quite townie on him the last day phase or so, seemed like genuine scum hunting, generally rational and reasonable about whatever hes been pushing, its given good vibes.
like yeah he is scum reading me, but i think he has done that in every single game i have ever played with him, always for the same reason to. would honestly be more worried if he wasn't scum reading me.

Just Stanley, Acorns and our friendly neighborhood town certified Lifeline

literally all 3 of us had posed by this point.

 

[timetokill]

You know how people were getting pissed at Palmer_v1, because he acknowledged that he was effectively encouraging the mafia to not shoot him and instead aim at a potentially useful town PR? That's essentially what your claim did.

Pretty much what monkey's claim did too, btw

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Maybe you guys are right and I'm just over thinking the role madness thing, it still doesn't sit right with me though. But I hope you're right.

i think the issue here just stems from your idea that our decisions should be based entirely on the worst case scenarios, its just not how things get done in mafia.
like if we played only by the worst case scenario for every decision we would never lynch anyone.

we have to make decisions considering whats to gain, whats to lose, and most importantly the likelihood of that decision turning out correct. and in this case the probably of your speculations being true are just so unlikely that following that course is just kinda ridiculous.

Mafia is almost always a game defined by risk taking, not risk mitigation.

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

Pretty much what monkey's claim did too, btw

yeah except monkeys claim most like found us a scum to lynch.

totally different situations dude.

 

[timetokill]

Burb and Darryl... do you think there are any scum hiding in the claimed vanilla town group? Or any power roles?

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

whys everyone gotta be stealing my pineapple?

 

[SkyOdin]

You know how people were getting pissed at Palmer_v1, because he acknowledged that he was effectively encouraging the mafia to not shoot him and instead aim at a potentially useful town PR? That's essentially what your claim did.

This is a role madness game, everyone is a PR. Scum was going to hit one regardless. As I somewhat said on day 1, I think the focus on power roles is detrimental to town. Red checks from cops, like what hey_monkey supplied, are very nice, but should never be relied upon. Lately, scum hasn't been winning because they have been good at targeting PRs, scum has been winnibg because they have been good at taking out strong town players and trusted voices. Being a meatshield for PRs isn't a vanilla townie's job. Scum hunting is a townie's job.

 

[hey_monkey]

Pretty much what monkey's claim did too, btw

I mean, did you really want me to sit on that? And maybe try to lead a lynch on Blarg, dropping hints and all, except after d2, what would have happened? Come on. I got lynched in anime for simply changing my mind. Imagine changing my mind and trying to head up a lynch. Even people who were suspicious of Blarg might have defended him and if I'd claimed then, it would have looked really suspect.

Sure, you wanna go through options (which, btw, is also just a cavalcade of possibilities for scum to claim or enact) on worst case scenario, but honestly, grant for a moment that way I say is true - then what exactly do I do differently here? What exactly are my options?

And to state the obvious, remember: scum already knows who we are. The only question marks are maybe neutral vs town, but they know we are not them. Our power comes from numbers and from evening that score and finding out who they are. I had information toward that. It doesn't benefit anyone if I share it at the wrong time when it won't be believed unless I'm flipped or if I take it to the grave because I get targeted because someone "feels" I might be scummy or has vibes or whatever.

 

[Blargonaut]

oops Darryl fuck I make my own decisions

I am a Neutral Survivor/Juggernaut. No, I'm not a Serial Killer, evidently. Nor am I a filthy, filthy Arsonist. I'm a dual-class treasure. Fighter/Thief? Thief/Fighter. Figuratively.

You want breadcrumbs? I have dungeons of them (and these are just from the beginning of the game):

Feels good to be Town-aligned, doesn't it?

I bet it does

^should be obvious

!

¬_¬

^GIF showing off 2 cards reveal, hinting at my dual-class

I have a plan

It requires volunteers

Who wants to play Mafia with me

^2d6 for that D&D shout-out cred

I am my own pineapple

*snip*

alright, funny you should say that. Putting the fruit sandwiches aside for a moment

As you may have witnessed, the Town faction of GAFia has not been doing well as of late. Losses, streaks of game losses, all very recently, as compared to Towns prior. It's almost as if we've forgotten how to hunt

*snip*

So, I propose that we divide ourselves into arbitrary "read teams" of 2 players per; not for the purposes of trust, but for the purpose of efficiency. Delegation is the key to managing this workload, isn't it?

*snip*[/INDENT]

This does NOT prohibit players from providing reads on others not assigned to them, BUT it will help us suss out hidden social links and agendas via forced interaction(s), YEAH?

go

^My entire "read teams" shtick was for dropping hints of my dual Role nature. "2 players per" line; this one's soft but it's survivors may be strangers but they gotta band together to have any "chance", yeah? "Forced" interaction (hinting at my Juggernaut/Strength Role-modifier). And the "forgotten how to hunt" one is a post-apocalyptic reference referring to those who are left, are forced to regress back to an outdated means of living in "hunting" (my Juggernaut-half) they have forgotten, just in order to "survive" (my Survivor-half).

Roast chicken, caramelized red onions, pickled chilli peppers, BBQ sauce and pineapple bits, pineapple bits, pineapple bits, pineapple bits, pineapple bits and pineapple bits

with garlic-mayo or spinach dip

Also, the best pizzas are homemade and modern Pizza Hut is trash

*snip*

^A reference to those who make [annoying] custom pizza orders (as I am the Deliverer). Plus a snooty expression of disdain for those who don't know how to cook and just order out.

if

*snip*

^me cracking my knuckles because I'm Strong

But what about what I want

^bonus

My Role-name is The Deliverer. Apparently I'm just trying to do my job and deliver these goddamn pizza(s) and if it's got pineapple on it that's your order(s), fucker(s).

And I killed Natiko last Night. Surprise!

...not a single one of you questioned why Natiko, the fucking MILLER claimant, died. I tried to coax you into noticing, into discussing it, but nope. 2 Role-claims at the beginning of the Day and you all salivate your minds off.

I'll bring it up then: why the fuck would scum kill the Miller claimant?

Don't you find it a little bit suspect that the "Alignment Cop" hey_monkey reveals herself right after the Miller dies?

It's because they didn't. I did.

I killed Natiko. That's what Town-aligned Vigilantes are supposed to do, aren't they? Cut off loose ends? I mean, I'm Neutral, but c'mon. sry scum to play off the meta but GAFia Town needed the help as of late, no

So that begs the question; why the lonesome kill? Where's the N2 two-fer? Well, I have one weird theory:

Scum failed their kill last Night.

Swamped died. She was their Roleblocker.

Her loss simply increased the odds of their NK failing, due to no Roleblock preventing a Doctor protect. And I believe such a thing happened last Night. Role Madness, yes?

Huh?

Am I x-shot(s)? Probably.

 

[hey_monkey]

Can someone please elaborate on that and explain that then? Everyone keeps saying that, but for the sake of my growth as a better Mafia player, can one person just make a coherent argument as to why this was a bad play? From my perspective, I am guaranteeing that scum can't, even accidentally, benefit from lynching me and activating my power. It seems that the main negative is that it is making everyone nervous, but no one has said why. Everyone just keeps repeating that it is bad and taking it as a given, which doesn't exactly make anything clear.

For my part, it makes my claim seem a little suspect, apparently. I can see your reasoning for what you did. It tells us something about the game and that there may be multiple levels to things or hidden information. I think that's good intel. But because of the position we're in, on d3 with a lot of weird shit going on, I can also see how that looks partly like we're colluding (but in a really elaborate way, I guess) and partly like you're trying to make sure you don't get lynched if my Blarg claim is wrong. Hedging your bets.

I mean, I don't think that. I think that'd be an awfully convoluted way to go about that but I'm not a veteran here. Just offering up my thoughts.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'll bring it up then: why the fuck would scum kill the Miller claimant?

Don't you find it a little bit suspect that the "Alignment Cop" hey_monkey reveals herself right after the Miller dies?

I don't know shit about millers. So if this means something - me revealing after the miller dies - you're gonna have to explain it to me. I had my post pre-prepped, though that's not something anyone could verify, I guess, and I didn't know who'd die.

I don't really get your role, either, but I'm guessing that you're hoping we'll spare you as you explain why you killed a townie.

Someone who's played role madness before is gonna have to explain this one for the slow kids in the class, namely me. Seems not scum. I get that.

 

[hey_monkey]

So this: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Strongman

plus survivor a la Sorian in Arkham?

 

[Blargonaut]

Yeah, and Blarg knew that and let it slip on Day 2. He refered to Lifeline as an Ascetic.

cute isolationary obfuscation

My full quote was Bulletproof/Ascetic. I like to cover all my bases when I speculate, yeah?

No one knew for sure what triggered Lifeline then. We still don't really, it's purely circumStantial that Swamped's Roleblock flavour text and Lifeline's mod-confirmation text match up. High likelihood though, I BELIEVE it

 

[SkyOdin]

What is your win-condition, Blargonaut? There are a few different variations on survivor.

Also, I am not sure how killing Natiko is supposed to make me trust your good intentions.

 

[hey_monkey]

unvote

Not because I'm necessarily against killing a neutral who's killing town by his own admission but because y'all got damn close to a turbo earlier when I was in and out and this needs to be discussed before decisions are made.

Echo the question about the win con. Because if we've got to be whittled down and it's in your best interest to see townies fall, we can't trust your reads on, say, Palmer or anyone else. You could merrily try to lead us to mislynch until the numbers dwindled.

 

[hey_monkey]

oh, do we have to do the whole thing now?

unvote: Blargonaut

 

[Sophia]

The command will recognize it as long as the phrase "unvote" is under a highlight tag.

However the proper way to do it to ensure there are no screwups is to simply have "unvote" on it's own line, with nothing else.

 

[Verelios]

What is your win-condition, Blargonaut? There are a few different variations on survivor.

Also, I am not sure how killing Natiko is supposed to make me trust your good intentions.

If your wc isn't disadvantageous to town I'd be interested in hearing you out Blarg. I'm just kind of puzzled on why Natiko was hit. Seems like an arbitrary kill.

 

[Blargonaut]

I don't know shit about millers. So if this means something - me revealing after the miller dies - you're gonna have to explain it to me. I had my post pre-prepped, though that's not something anyone could verify, I guess, and I didn't know who'd die.

I don't really get your role, either, but I'm guessing that you're hoping we'll spare you as you explain why you killed a townie.

Someone who's played role madness before is gonna have to explain this one for the slow kids in the class, namely me. Seems not scum. I get that.

alright

A Miller is a Role that, when Investigated (by an Alignment-Investigative Role such as you've claimed), the Investigator gets the result back that the Miller is scum (but they're actually not).

The confirmed presence of a Miller is usually a sign there's an Alignment Detective around; namely, "you". Burb agrees. Right, Burbeting? But since no one's come forward to challenge your claim, I'm assuming you're telling the truth. Although, you may be scum hinging on that very fact as it's not quite mid-game yet, and the real Cop doesn't want to call you out because they want to keep their job until it's time to retire, yeah?

A Miller may be Town, but a Miller claimant is just Bad news until they are dead, because there's no way to determine they're truthfully real otherwise. Scum won't kill Millers because they like having conversation pieces that aren't themselves, so it behooves them to keep Millers alive so Town will spend a Day killing "Town". You wouldn't be able to determine Natiko's true Alignment if you tried.

That's why I killed him. With a hatchet, apparently. hashtag Strong

You might ask me why I didn't kill Palmer or Darryl if I apparently hate them so much

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

I killed Natiko. That's what Town-aligned Vigilantes are supposed to do, aren't they? Cut off loose ends? I mean, I'm Neutral, but c'mon. sry scum to play off the meta but GAFia Town needed the help as of late, no

or you could just try and kill scum,
least thats what a VigiStante would do.

If your wc isn't disadvantageous to town I'd be interested in hearing you out Blarg. I'm just kind of puzzled on why Natiko was hit. Seems like an arbitrary kill.

refering to the thing i quotes above, apparently he saw Natiko claiming Miller as a 'loose end' that was worth killing, possibly even worth using one of limited shots.

 

[Blargonaut]

What is your win-condition, Blargonaut? There are a few different variations on survivor.

Also, I am not sure how killing Natiko is supposed to make me trust your good intentions.

unvote

Not because I'm necessarily against killing a neutral who's killing town by his own admission but because y'all got damn close to a turbo earlier when I was in and out and this needs to be discussed before decisions are made.

Echo the question about the win con. Because if we've got to be whittled down and it's in your best interest to see townies fall, we can't trust your reads on, say, Palmer or anyone else. You could merrily try to lead us to mislynch until the numbers dwindled.

If your wc isn't disadvantageous to town I'd be interested in hearing you out Blarg. I'm just kind of puzzled on why Natiko was hit. Seems like an arbitrary kill.

I Win if I live to the end of the game with either faction's win. You could say I'm a pretty Ordinary Survivor.

I killed Natiko because I love real Town and would never betray real Town. I did it for you #realTown

 

[Blargonaut]

or you could just try and kill scum,
least thats what a VigiStante would do.



refering to the thing i quotes above, apparently he saw Natiko claiming Miller as a 'loose end' that was worth killing, possibly even worth using one of limited shots.

50/50 odds Miller Natiko was either gambiting scum or real Town

I found those odds poetic

Only fair that a Neutral aim down the half-line

 

[hey_monkey]

Yeah, I know the basics of millers. Not what I meant but I'm sleepy and I wasn't clear. You linked my claim with Natiko's death. That's what I was all ??? over. That I claimed right after. I was just grateful not to be dead.

However, for meta reasons we had little reason to doubt Natiko. But if it came to end game and shady shit was afoot I expect then he would have been lynched at need. We don't need checks or claims to get rid of shady people who are unconfirmed.

 

[hey_monkey]

I HATE not being able to edit. I was gonna add I don't know all the implications so that was helpful but again see above re: meta and Natiko.

 

[hey_monkey]

or you could just try and kill scum,
least thats what a VigiStante would do.

refering to the thing i quotes above, apparently he saw Natiko claiming Miller as a 'loose end' that was worth killing, possibly even worth using one of limited shots.

VigiStante made me giggle aloud so it's time for bed, obviously.

Role mild irritation way above did too. GOOD tense times.

 

[Blargonaut]

This is around the time when you should be making me contracts

scum send a diplomat and we'll negotiate terms here

They won't mind, Town plays fair and respects neutral ground

 

[Blargonaut]

ask me what my Command name is

 

[StanleyPalmtree]

50/50 odds Miller Natiko was either gambiting scum or real Town

I found those odds poetic

Only fair that a Neutral aim down the half-line

yeah that does make more sense, before i read it before you killing him purely because he claimed miller.

ask me what my Command name is

Blarg whats the name of your Commander?

 

[SkyOdin]

Next question: did you try to kill anyone on Night 1?

 

[isaacnukem]

UNVOTE

 

[Palmer_v1]

Palmer has been ducking his vanilla claim since day 2. Hopefully he shows up later to answer some questions I have

Explain how I've been ducking it, please. I could use a laugh.

 

[Blargonaut]

Blarg whats the name of your Commander?

I don't take orders from you

 

[Blargonaut]

Next question: did you try to kill anyone on Night 1?

They'd be dead, so no

 

[Palmer_v1]

Where's the second kill blarg?