Anyone else think that Barbossa isn't really dead? "I've got a rendezvous beyond the horizon" and the monkey being so close to him give me the feeling that Jack knows/believes Barbossa is alive, and he's going after him. I could see Disney trying to split this ending into two different movies: one would have Jack and co. going and running afoul of Davey, then Will and his son having to go and do some next crazy shit to rescue him (hence the after credit scene). (Stupid wild guess, I don't think Disney would be crazy enough to try to make a Pirates film without Johnny being the center of attention.)
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Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales|SPOILER THREAD| Salazars Revenge
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
See that first film and now this are the only two Jack appearances I enjoyed (and one scene in the second film where he is trying to romance keira)
Jack Sparrow works best when he is the pink panther in these films wherein he does very little himself to (intentionally) advance the plot but randomly shows up in the middle of a burning building, loks confused, fucks things up more, then makes his exit. He is, and should be in my opinion, a one dimensional looney tunes character,
They already brought back Barbossa from the dead, so certaintly not.
I'd hope not, but I dunno, he seemed pretty dead at the end of the first one. :/ Oh! Maybe he's going to rescue Uncle Jack!
LuciusAxelrod
Member
I would guess that Barbossa is the new Davy Jones.
I'd hope not, but I dunno, he seemed pretty dead at the end of the first one. :/ Oh! Maybe he's going to rescue Uncle Jack!
I don't mind him having an appearance if they enter some magical island and deads are around, but certainly not bringing him back again.
Otherwise it's all so cheap.
brandonh83
Banned
Nah. He went out happy saving his daughter and has no bone to pick with Will.
What happened to the trident freed Will and simultaneously altered a whole lotta other things including bringing back Jones who DOES have a bone to pick.
LuciusAxelrod
Member
Spooky post-credit jump scare dreams aren't necessarily indicative of a character's potential future motivations.
Maybe Barbossa Davy Jones will be a nice Davy Jones since he died selflessly and not part of a curse.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Jones has no bone to pick though, and that scene really clashes with the idea of the trident breaking the curse.
And I thought the trident being broken means no more mystic stuff in the sea.
Jack's compass still works though, proving not all magic is gone.
brandonh83
Banned
Davy Jones fucking hates Will lol
The post credits scene to me implied that what freed Will also brought Jones back. I don't think there's any real specifics about how any of this shit works.
Pagusas
Elden Member
It was better than 4 but no where near 1-3. Still enjoyed it and glad it concluded the series on an ok note.
I really disliked all the reused music thought. Don't get me wrong the pirates sound tracks are amazing, but this felt like it had no original music and the editor just took the old sound tracks and edited them to (badly)fit each scene. Very ameture sounding.
I really disliked all the reused music thought. Don't get me wrong the pirates sound tracks are amazing, but this felt like it had no original music and the editor just took the old sound tracks and edited them to (badly)fit each scene. Very ameture sounding.
Not a bad movie, though not exactly reaching the highs of the first three movies.
Carina and Henry weren't as similar to Elizabeth and Will as I first thought, so that was good. Though, Henry was pretty bland. Carina was cool and her story took an unexpected twist in the end that I bought into.
Salazar was cool as hell, and the trailer gave me different expectations of him. I was thinking he'd be pretty jokey, based on the opening scene where he tells Henry to speak to Jack "please". That's about as far as he went with being lighthearted, relatively speaking.
I haven't seen Pirates of the Carribean in many years, probably not since At World's End came out on DVD back in the day, so my exposure to POTC has been limited. That being said, Jack Sparrow seems to be about the same as the end of that trilogy, not that I expected any leaps in character development lol.
The story itself plays it pretty safe, with shades of Curse of the Black Pearl. It establishes the goal of everyone at first, but felt like it was just meandering along midway through, until it speeds up to the end. Though the meandering wasn't bad exactly. Young Jack scene was a highlight.
The witch gag fell flat, but the horology joke was a good one. Thankfully contained to two instances - one on the Dying Gull and another with Jack telling Barbossa that she's a horologist on the Black Pearl.
So yeah, not bad, not great. It was alright. I wasn't exactly left wanting more. Though a Young Jack prequel movie or series would be cool.
Carina and Henry weren't as similar to Elizabeth and Will as I first thought, so that was good. Though, Henry was pretty bland. Carina was cool and her story took an unexpected twist in the end that I bought into.
Salazar was cool as hell, and the trailer gave me different expectations of him. I was thinking he'd be pretty jokey, based on the opening scene where he tells Henry to speak to Jack "please". That's about as far as he went with being lighthearted, relatively speaking.
I haven't seen Pirates of the Carribean in many years, probably not since At World's End came out on DVD back in the day, so my exposure to POTC has been limited. That being said, Jack Sparrow seems to be about the same as the end of that trilogy, not that I expected any leaps in character development lol.
The story itself plays it pretty safe, with shades of Curse of the Black Pearl. It establishes the goal of everyone at first, but felt like it was just meandering along midway through, until it speeds up to the end. Though the meandering wasn't bad exactly. Young Jack scene was a highlight.
The witch gag fell flat, but the horology joke was a good one. Thankfully contained to two instances - one on the Dying Gull and another with Jack telling Barbossa that she's a horologist on the Black Pearl.
So yeah, not bad, not great. It was alright. I wasn't exactly left wanting more. Though a Young Jack prequel movie or series would be cool.
SolidChamp
Banned
I absolutely hated 2 and 3. I thought they were incoherent and lacked the simple charm of the first.
4 sort of brought some of that straightforward plotting back, but I don't even remember it so it must not have been that great.
I really enjoyed the first, back in the day.
Will I enjoy this?
4 sort of brought some of that straightforward plotting back, but I don't even remember it so it must not have been that great.
I really enjoyed the first, back in the day.
Will I enjoy this?
Yo, this thing was hot trash.
Most of my issues with the film have been covered but has anyone brought up how the compass was keeping Salazar trapped in there?
Why can he escape once Jack has given away the compass? Was that covered during the film at some point?
Also, the editing at the end of the movie was horrendous.
Most of my issues with the film have been covered but has anyone brought up how the compass was keeping Salazar trapped in there?
Why can he escape once Jack has given away the compass? Was that covered during the film at some point?
Also, the editing at the end of the movie was horrendous.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I thought he has gotten over it in Part 3? And it freed him, but then shouldn't it also mean he has no curse?
Maybe the compass isn't "sea magic"?
Scarecrow
Member
Had a lot of cool ideas that I wish were in a better done film:
Freeing Will from the Dutchman could have been a movie on its own, along with reuniting with Liz. Having that be bookends felt cheap. Like they were just trying to tie up loose ends in case this turns out to be the last one of these they make.
Barbossa finally achieving his life's work of becoming the most successful pirate in the sea was nice to see. I figured he'd be the one to die in this movie. Either him or Jack.
The new couple was alright, even if they both felt a little too flawless. I'm interested to see what they do with them for the next one
Some good locations at the end. The star island was neat as was the area at the bottom of the sea.
While I didn't like OST much, I'm happy some stuff carried over, like the Pearl in the bottle, Blackbeard's sword, and Scrum returning.
However the series has just become a little too silly for my taste, and I say that as a massive fan of DMC. It's growing more cartoon-y, like it's trying for a much younger audience:
I miss how shrewd and cunning Jack was in the first couple of movies.
Lots of dumb contrivances. Henry meets Salazar and is tasked with finding Jack. But then Jack accidentally frees Salazar the next day...
Dumb island wedding scene for no reason.
Bald witch "I have my ways" ass pull -_-
Why are they bringing back Davy Jonez -_-
I keep bringing it up in Pirates threads, but does every antagonist have to be a damned ghost crew? I can believe it's difficult to make ordinary foes feel as special, but it's getting repetitive.
Trailer has some line like "The beginning of the end." Thought this was going to be the first half of a two parter. Would have given more space to freeing Will and breaking all the curses of the sea.
I miss Verbinski's art style. He had a great visual touch with this series. This one felt bland, but not as bland as Stranger Tides.
CotBP 9/10
DMC 10/10
AWE 9/10
OST 4/10
DMTNT 6/10
Freeing Will from the Dutchman could have been a movie on its own, along with reuniting with Liz. Having that be bookends felt cheap. Like they were just trying to tie up loose ends in case this turns out to be the last one of these they make.
Barbossa finally achieving his life's work of becoming the most successful pirate in the sea was nice to see. I figured he'd be the one to die in this movie. Either him or Jack.
The new couple was alright, even if they both felt a little too flawless. I'm interested to see what they do with them for the next one
Some good locations at the end. The star island was neat as was the area at the bottom of the sea.
While I didn't like OST much, I'm happy some stuff carried over, like the Pearl in the bottle, Blackbeard's sword, and Scrum returning.
However the series has just become a little too silly for my taste, and I say that as a massive fan of DMC. It's growing more cartoon-y, like it's trying for a much younger audience:
I miss how shrewd and cunning Jack was in the first couple of movies.
Lots of dumb contrivances. Henry meets Salazar and is tasked with finding Jack. But then Jack accidentally frees Salazar the next day...
Dumb island wedding scene for no reason.
Bald witch "I have my ways" ass pull -_-
Why are they bringing back Davy Jonez -_-
I keep bringing it up in Pirates threads, but does every antagonist have to be a damned ghost crew? I can believe it's difficult to make ordinary foes feel as special, but it's getting repetitive.
Trailer has some line like "The beginning of the end." Thought this was going to be the first half of a two parter. Would have given more space to freeing Will and breaking all the curses of the sea.
I miss Verbinski's art style. He had a great visual touch with this series. This one felt bland, but not as bland as Stranger Tides.
CotBP 9/10
DMC 10/10
AWE 9/10
OST 4/10
DMTNT 6/10
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Salazar is released because while the compass shows your heart's desire if you "betray" it it releases your greatest fear.
Blackbeard was human and he absolutely sucked, he wasn't given much but no matter how good he could have been he would still be less imposing next to Davy Jones and Barbossa .
Salazar worked but was a huge downgrade from Davy Jones.
I'd be fine with more supernatural enemies but they need to be elevated if so, SeaGod like Davy Jones initially felt.(maybe not straight up fighting Poseidon level though)
I saw it tonight and found it really enjoyable! I'd say 8/10 for me, but I'm biased and like pirates.
I thought maybe 3/4 in the movie was dragging on with the water scene, but once they finally got to the top it was fun again.
It felt great to the old characters again. I kind of felt Barbossa's sacrifice wasn't 100% necessary since they could have just knocked Salazar and company off the anchor, but I still teared up a bit. And THEN with the Will and Elizabeth reuninion, I stayed teared up. :X I felt like it worked well since the characters never expected to see each other again, and both Knightley and Bloom aged perfectly for the moment.
The soundtrack felt largely reused, but was still enjoyable.
I thought Salazar was a good villain. Intimidating character, cool accent. I especially liked how his hair and clothes would move eerily in slow motion when he was basically standing still.
I really enjoyed Carina's character. After the thing about Depp influencing the movie to not have a female villain, I was pleasantly surprised that the witch character was decent (apparently powerful and respected, not intimidated by men), and Carina was largely shown as intelligent and capable. Granted, the actress being beautiful almost certainly affects my opinion, but I still thought the character was solid.
I thought maybe 3/4 in the movie was dragging on with the water scene, but once they finally got to the top it was fun again.
It felt great to the old characters again. I kind of felt Barbossa's sacrifice wasn't 100% necessary since they could have just knocked Salazar and company off the anchor, but I still teared up a bit. And THEN with the Will and Elizabeth reuninion, I stayed teared up. :X I felt like it worked well since the characters never expected to see each other again, and both Knightley and Bloom aged perfectly for the moment.
The soundtrack felt largely reused, but was still enjoyable.
I thought Salazar was a good villain. Intimidating character, cool accent. I especially liked how his hair and clothes would move eerily in slow motion when he was basically standing still.
I really enjoyed Carina's character. After the thing about Depp influencing the movie to not have a female villain, I was pleasantly surprised that the witch character was decent (apparently powerful and respected, not intimidated by men), and Carina was largely shown as intelligent and capable. Granted, the actress being beautiful almost certainly affects my opinion, but I still thought the character was solid.
But Jack ignored Salazar was still alive. He also had no intention of sailing in the near future since he had no crew and the boat was docked, which means Jack was 100% safe on his island.
So Salazar conveniently being his "worst fear" makes zero sense.
And it happened randomly right after Salazar met Henry, that magically arrives on the same island too.
Come the fuck on.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
Im not excusing it, just stating the given reason.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Absolutely. They stripped away the garbage convoluted storytelling that murdered 2 and 3, gave it more emotional punch and a great crew of characters. This and the first are the only two I really enjoy with the first being one of my all time faves.
Scarecrow
Member
BB was human, but his crew were zombies. Just a weak antagonistic force all around. Stupid movie.
There's no dimension in which this movie is better than 2.
None.
And the emotional bits were all ruined partly by contrivances and convenient/lazy writing.
The thing I didn't get about the "betrayal" concept was that it seemed clear to me that Jack never intended to lose the compass permanently. Taking the compass back, as he does, was the same hustle as when he robbed the owner of the dock immediately after his introduction in the first movie. Though I suppose maybe we're meant to assume that Jack, feeling despondent, did in fact give up on the compass temporarily and only stole it back when presented with an easy opportunity?
I had actually forgotten until reading this thread that Tia Dalma had previously said Jack bartered the compass from her. Been a long time since I watched DMC or AWE, though a revisit now might be in order.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I enjoy all these despite knowing 3&4 really suck, i'd almost say this was better than 2 which is my favorite but 2's music, action and Davy Jones were just too much fun.
I definitely liked the story and setup more.
Man the zombie crew were such an afterthought, even the toy company tried to make something interesting out of that mess
RobbieNick
Junior Member
WAY better than 4. Easier to follow than 2 and 3.
Zombie sharks.
It's my 3rd favorite of the series. Maybe 2nd. I was surprised how much I enjoyed it. There's some minor plot holes and the editing's poor, but overall, it was a lot of fun.
That post credits scene though. I hate it. Makes no sense and this one REALLY wrapped up the series and made it feel like a final chapter.
I never once got the hate 3 did.
It's a bloated mess and they did some amazing bullshit with hyping up the finale to a single ship on ship duel, rescuing Sparrow took nothing, and doing the Kraken all wrong.
But it was a fucking spectacle of a film. Even with the bullshit, that finale was amazing. One of the few films that still amaze me to this day. I see stuff like Avengers, Furious 8, Avatar and others. And I really can not think of another film to match it. It's the whole picture. Good CG, Particular effects, choreography, costumes, etc. With that perfect blend of being serious enough where someone could die, but still that whimsical humor.
It's a bloated mess and they did some amazing bullshit with hyping up the finale to a single ship on ship duel, rescuing Sparrow took nothing, and doing the Kraken all wrong.
But it was a fucking spectacle of a film. Even with the bullshit, that finale was amazing. One of the few films that still amaze me to this day. I see stuff like Avengers, Furious 8, Avatar and others. And I really can not think of another film to match it. It's the whole picture. Good CG, Particular effects, choreography, costumes, etc. With that perfect blend of being serious enough where someone could die, but still that whimsical humor.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
I swear if Pirates 3's script had even a few more months of work on it before filming began, the filmmakers would have realized how much of a waste of time the Pirate's Brethren and Shipwreck's Cove were. Dropping them alone would cut about 40 minutes from the movie.
Razgriz-Specter
Member
I freaking love these movies but definitely get the hate for 3 just such a mess, multiple Jacks is one of my least favorite scenes in the series.
But that final battle is absolutely what I see these movies for.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Verbinski biggest contribution to this series is introducing the world to Jack Sparrow. Depp took it from there while Verbinski shat on everything else from that point on as he has throughout his entire 11 movie tenure.
The bolded above perfectly describes movies 2 and 3, movies that forgot it's star character was a cartoon character running away from zombies and instead tried to use two movies to justify a world around them by giving us 3 or 4 convoluted and long drawn out plots only to have it all conveniently tie in the end with a pretty bow on top. Those movies were pretentious and mind numbing; movies where 'less is more' is thrown out the window and fails for it.
I didn't look for contrivances or signs of lazy writing as I didn't walk into this popcorn movie looking for Verbinski's definition of dimensions, as it were. Maybe the performances themselves elevated the moments for me. I'm not going to dissect a movie like this for text book writing problems unless the movie had tried to convince me this was a Charles Dickens epic like movies 2 and 3 desperately wanted to be.
RobbieNick
Junior Member
"This woman knows science! She must be a witch! Hang her! Even though we're supposed to BURN witches! Let's also forget that we're allied with an ACTUAL witch!!"
In Soviet Russia, shark jumps you!
In Soviet Russia, shark jumps you!
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I think the point was that they were so hypocritical, that the only thing that matters to them is control and power.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Jack had no reason to fear Salazar, he didn't know he was cursed. For all he knew Salazar was dead and buried. When Henry told Jack the message he didn't even remember him.
It's like the writers put no thought into this movie at all.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
\
He did. Jack would remember the one dude who was mass murdering pirates. Per your point, because he thought Salazar dead, he didn't buy into Henry's "message".
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Right he probably remembers Beckett.
It doesn't work chronologically since he "betrayed" the compass before receiving the message. Salazar couldn't be his greatest fear at that point.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Exactly, it necessitates the compass is somehow aware of Salazar and would "know" that Jack would be afraid of him.
Even though this alcoholic Jack basically never sweats outside of when Will first mentions him.
Dragon Puncher
Member
Having just seen it, I have come to the conclusion that Pirates is one of the few franchises where every movie is continually worse than the last.
This was just terrible. These movies have never been big on internal logic, but so much here just made little sense. Like the retconned compas story, how Salazar became undead, trying to one-up Fast Five's vault sequence with horses, pretty much everything about the island, the book and the ruby, the trident of freaking Poseidon being breakable by a single strike with a shitty sword, etc., etc.
This was just terrible. These movies have never been big on internal logic, but so much here just made little sense. Like the retconned compas story, how Salazar became undead, trying to one-up Fast Five's vault sequence with horses, pretty much everything about the island, the book and the ruby, the trident of freaking Poseidon being breakable by a single strike with a shitty sword, etc., etc.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Black Pearl≥Dead Mans Chest>Dead Men Tell No Tales≥Stranger Tides>At Worlds End
Yet, At World End has a certain magic that only the first two have - thought the latest entry is closer to achieving it than Stranger Tides. I will say, Stranger Tides felt far less bloated than Dead Men though.
I'm about to sleep, but I'll post more specific thoughts on the newest film tomorrow. Overall, it's worth seeing if you like the first two... but it comes with some of the baggage that plagued the most recent entries.
Yet, At World End has a certain magic that only the first two have - thought the latest entry is closer to achieving it than Stranger Tides. I will say, Stranger Tides felt far less bloated than Dead Men though.
I'm about to sleep, but I'll post more specific thoughts on the newest film tomorrow. Overall, it's worth seeing if you like the first two... but it comes with some of the baggage that plagued the most recent entries.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well we know already that the compass can read intent since trading it set it off when giving it away in the third movie a couple times didn't
"Oh no my biggest fear is a dead captain I have no idea survived (nor has superpowers), that literally can't attack me on this Island that I have no intention to leave anytime soon considering I lost my crew and ship".
I have a lot of issues with that.
Captain Zyrain
Member
To be fair.. What we have seen of Jack Sparrows mind.. Nothing really makes sense anyway. Maybe at that exact moment he was thinking about Salazar, for whatever reason. He could have been thinking about the Staypuff Marshmallow Man! Jack was pretty out of it..
It's either that or the writers are shit.
Considering that Henry met Salazar randomly the day before, magically ends up on the same Island, and manages to escape and stumble upon Jack randomly on this Island...
I'm gonna go with the writers are lazy fucks and couldn't bother to find proper reasons.
Boy Wander
Member
Going to see this with my son tomorrow so was going to watch 4 tonight to get me in the mood. I liked the first 3 but everyone in here seems to be saying 4 is the shits. Can someone summarise why it is disliked?
Razgriz-Specter
Member
To be honest, I was half-expecting a drunk Jack covered in seaweed to be the person barging in all ominously and then knock out on the bedroom floor as soon as Will woke up.