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[Captain Zyrain]

Going to see this with my son tomorrow so was going to watch 4 tonight to get me in the mood. I liked the first 3 but everyone in here seems to be saying 4 is the shits. Can someone summarise why it is disliked?

I don't know.. It just seemed wrong to me on many levels. The jokes were not good and everyone just seemed to be going through the motions.

There were a few cool parts, but Blackbeard felt wasted, and I didn't really like what they did to Barbossa.

 

[zeemumu]

Going to see this with my son tomorrow so was going to watch 4 tonight to get me in the mood. I liked the first 3 but everyone in here seems to be saying 4 is the shits. Can someone summarise why it is disliked?

The scale felt smaller, the new characters didn't really hold up against the old, and the returning characters felt off. I don't know how this is possible but Jack seemed a little too drunk.

 

[Stormwatch]

I'm kinda tired of drunk, unlucky, hated, Jack Sparrow. I liked him much better in 1, 2, and most of 3. But the character he has become in 4 and 5 just isn't funny anymore. Him being a background character that constantly accidentally does the right thing was more fun to watch. One of my favorite lines in the early movies was "Which side is Jack on now?". The story isn't supposed to be about Jack, it is supposed to be about the lives of people that Jack accidentally stumbles in to.

 

[kunonabi]

Going to see this with my son tomorrow so was going to watch 4 tonight to get me in the mood. I liked the first 3 but everyone in here seems to be saying 4 is the shits. Can someone summarise why it is disliked?

for me it just had way too many awful subplots and side characters. I actually liked the core story and Cruz well enough. I thougt it was better than 2 and 3 personally but I honestly hated those movies.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm kinda tired of drunk, unlucky, hated, Jack Sparrow. I liked him much better in 1, 2, and most of 3. But the character he has become in 4 and 5 just isn't funny anymore. Him being a background character that constantly accidentally does the right thing was more fun to watch. One of my favorite lines in the early movies was "Which side is Jack on now?". The story isn't supposed to be about Jack, it is supposed to be about the lives of people that Jack accidentally stumbles in to.

I felt this way about 5, actually. Not so much with 4. I was more invested in the Carina/Barbossa/Henry/Will stuff this time whereas 4 completely highlighted Jack.

I will say his dialogue isn't written as well as it used to be, but I think it's still worked in 2, 3 and now 5 for the most part. It just came out so it's hard to say what lines will stick with me after repeat viewings.

I did think this had some very funny stuff though, the guillotine part is the hardest I've ever laughed at anything involving him.

 

[sturmdogg]

I thought this was 4. What was the title of the previous movie?

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

The Guillotine scene and the bank robbery were the highlights of this movie - that felt like the classic Pirates shenanigans I know and love. I wanted something as clever, or at least as well choreographed to happen near the climax, but sadly it never came.

Yep - Jack Sparrow as a character here was off - and not as charming as a result. We need Jack to be a little more competent, with a little more scheming, and to be in a little more control. He really does feel like a parody of himself now, which is too bad.. he still has some fun scenes, but the writers and directors should really pay attention to what made him stand out in Black Pearl.

I think this movie would be better if you chopped about 20 minutes out. Remove the real witch - seriously, what was the point? - remove the 'wedding' scene - and remove some of the royal navy scenes (particularly with the witch, which again felt pointless). These things, along with the latter half being point a to b to c to c.5 to b to d to e gave it that bloated feeling present in At Worlds End. It's not nearly as convoluted, though.

This movie brings back the mythology of the franchise, which is a lot of fun, but it only nails the personality of the set pieces in the first half. The second half gets lost in its own epic visuals, but it least has some personal stakes in the character growth department.

Overall, I liked it, but this movie needed a little more love to be something really fresh.

 

[brandonh83]

Yeah. For me, the way I looked at it again was that maybe he's just tired of all that scheming and that stuff is kinda past him now. After the massive events of the first trilogy, him being swallowed by a kraken, escaping death so many times, the Davy Jones encounter, watching Will get gutted, well, I can see how maybe that could change someone, including Sparrow. If I went through all that shit, I'd probably be a less caring drunk all the time too.

I didn't think it was out of character, just that he's been through so much by this point and we can assume chronologically it's been what... 10, 15 or more years since those events and I think eventually someone can just run out of gas. I thought this was highlighted in the bank robbery scene actually. He was completely careless and managed to get drunk and fucked a girl in the safe, which I found hilarious but it gave me that sensation that he just kind of doesn't care anymore.

I can see how that would be disappointing if you need him to be exactly like he was in the first movie, but there's so many other things I like about these movies in general that a more washed up and careless Sparrow doesn't really bother me. It's why I was really happy with the new characters, how they tie into everything, the new lore it established, and what their stakes were-- it didn't have to rely on Jack to carry it.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Yeah. For me, the way I looked at it again was that maybe he's just tired of all that scheming and that stuff is kinda past him now. After the massive events of the first trilogy, him being swallowed by a kraken, escaping death so many times, the Davy Jones encounter, watching Will get gutted, well, I can see how maybe that could change someone, including Sparrow. If I went through all that shit, I'd probably be a less caring drunk all the time too.

I didn't think it was out of character, just that he's been through so much by this point and we can assume chronologically it's been what... 10, 15 or more years since those events and I think eventually someone can just run out of gas. I thought this was highlighted in the bank robbery scene actually. He was completely careless and managed to get drunk and fucked a girl in the safe, which I found hilarious but it gave me that sensation that he just kind of doesn't care anymore.

I can see how that would be disappointing if you need him to be exactly like he was in the first movie, but there's so many other things I like about these movies in general that a more washed up and careless Sparrow doesn't really bother me.

Don't get me wrong, I can totally buy an out of luck, extra drunken Jack Sparrow as something that would happen. But - and this is really the key - it isn't nearly as satisfying to watch on screen, and a result a lot of the jokes feel really tired.

 

[brandonh83]

Don't get me wrong, I can totally buy an out of luck, extra drunken Jack Sparrow as something that would happen. But - and this is really the key - it isn't nearly as satisfying to watch on screen, and a result a lot of the jokes feel really tired.

I was still laughing at him quite a bit but it was parallel to a more serious story/drama. I was into other aspects more, therefore Jack not being as "fun" didn't detract or deteriorate my overall enjoyment of the movie. It didn't rely on Jack shenanigans to be fun, and had its own things to say. If this movie were like On Stranger Tides, where Jack is less fun and it's not parallel to something more interesting, I would have been disappointed again like I was with that one.

 

[Daft_Cat]

So, is the fan consensus that this is better than 4 and maybe 3? That would be good enough for me, given that I'm super nostalgic for those first two flicks.

Otherwise, might just fire up Black Sails instead (never seen it - heard it's great).

Going to see this with my son tomorrow so was going to watch 4 tonight to get me in the mood. I liked the first 3 but everyone in here seems to be saying 4 is the shits. Can someone summarise why it is disliked?

On Stranger Tides has a low-rent, direct-to-DVD feel. Superfluous plot, phoned-in performances, and a massive reduction in scope.

 

[Talon]

Reading these impressions, it's almost like Depp's decision to have lines read to him over the years instead of absorbing the script himself does not lead to great characterization or acting.

 

[brandonh83]

So, is the fan consensus that this is better than 4 and maybe 3? That would be good enough for me, given that I'm super nostalgic for those first two flicks.

Without question better than 4, not even a contest. But your opinion of 3 is gonna dictate how you feel about that I guess. I really like 3 a lot. So for me, this one is at least as good, the scale isn't as huge as it is in 3, but some had a problem with that, so I dunno.

This one feels closer to the scope of 1 and 4, only it's much better than 4 and still has some of those epic aspects of 2 and 3 at times, particularly at the end.

 

[Daft_Cat]

Without question better than 4, not even a contest. But your opinion of 3 is gonna dictate how you feel about that I guess. I really like 3 a lot. So for me, this one is at least as good, the scale isn't as huge as it is in 3, but some had a problem with that, so I dunno.

This one feels closer to the scope of 1 and 4, only it's much better than 4 and still has some of those epic aspects of 2 and 3 at times, particularly at the end.

For me, At World's End suffers from many of the same problems as The Dark Knight Rises. Lots of great ideas hampered by a bloated structure and a small of handful of scenes that fall way below anything in the first two films. I don't dislike it, but I'm also a Verbinski apologist - its hard for me to throw shade at a filmmaker who's so clearly committed to giving it his all.

In any case, yeah. Sounds like this is maybe the film 4 ought to have been.

 

[brandonh83]

2 and 3 definitely run too long, it's one of those things where the pros vastly outweigh the bloat and pacing issues for me. 5 is also long but I didn't feel it as much because I was invested with what was happening. I think this could have used a bit of trimming early on and there's a section in the 2nd act that feels like it's going somewhere big, but doesn't go anywhere at all. That was my only major problem with it. It feels like one of those things where it was clearly going to go into something big but then they cut entire sequences and didn't trim up around it.

 

[zeemumu]

I thought this was 4. What was the title of the previous movie?

On Stranger Tides


3 usually gets a pass from me just because of the climax, but the climax of 4 and 5 fell short. And I agree that Jack shouldn't be the main focus. He's better as the character with an intricate history in the universe that you know little about.

 

[Blizzard]

Having just seen it, I have come to the conclusion that Pirates is one of the few franchises where every movie is continually worse than the last.

I strongly disagree with this. One could argue that the first 3 were better, but both my girlfriend and I enjoyed this far more than the 4th movie, which we sort of pretend doesn't exist.

*edit* If I were to try to analyze my feelings about On Stranger TIdes, I think part of it was mediocre new characters and few returning characters, part was a plot so odd I literally can't remember much compared to any other pirate movie, and part was Barbossa turning into a government sellout (unless I'm mixing this with At World's End in which case I apologize). I also don't remember the soundtrack even being as enjoyable as Dead Men Tell No Tales.

 

[Pagusas]

One scene I have to comment on, the guillotine scene! That was so well executed and amazingly visual and fun. Really well done and gave a great sense of motion.

 

[brandonh83]

I strongly disagree with this. One could argue that the first 3 were better, but both my girlfriend and I enjoyed this far more than the 4th movie, which we sort of pretend doesn't exist.

Hell this one feels more like a proper continuation of 3, so I won't even need 4 on the shelf lol.

One scene I have to comment on, the guillotine scene! That was so well executed and amazingly visual and fun. Really well done and gave a great sense of motion.

Definitely a highlight. The camera really made it feel like you were swooping around with it so it was like being on a ride and laughing hysterically.

 

[Blizzard]

I think the bank robbery scene was the most enjoyable for me, pretty much everyone was cracking up.

 

[brandonh83]

I'm not one to complain, normally, but this basket is full of heads.

 

[Lys Skygge]

I honestly think bringing back Gore Verbinski would fix a majority of Pirates' problems. While 2 & 3 aren't necessarily good, they had the spectacle and soul that's lacking in 4 & 5.

 

[brandonh83]

I honestly think bringing back Gore Verbinski would fix a majority of Pirates' problems. While 2 & 3 aren't necessarily good, they had the spectacle and soul that's lacking in 4 & 5.

I didn't think this was lacking in soul at all. I was moved several times, even the opening scene. Maybe you're talking about something else in regards to "soul," which I guess could be subjective. But I thought this had a lot of heart.

I thought 4 completely lacked any heart and soul on the other hand.

 

[Pagusas]

Hell this one feels more like a proper continuation of 3, so I won't even need 4 on the shelf lol.

The only plot point that would be confusing by skipping 4 is the understand why the Pearl is in a bottle. But honestly that went no where anyway.

 

[Rebel Leader]

I think the bank robbery scene was the most enjoyable for me, pretty much everyone was cracking up.

And the execution

 

[ZeoVGM]

One other thing: Why was Will getting all barnacle-y anyway? I thought they explained that Davy Jones became that way because he abandoned his duty guiding people who died on the sea to the afterlife.

Right, it's implied that he wasn't fulfilling his duties.

No one had an issue with the redcoats' whole storyline being dissolved instantly by Salazar's ship running into them?

I liked that. Was satisfying to see them act all smug only to have Salazar's ship blow them the hell up.

 

[brandonh83]

The only plot point that would be confusing by skipping 4 is the understand why the Pearl is in a bottle. But honestly that went no where anyway.

Yeah that and Blackbeard is mentioned, but it's not really important to the overarching story. I'd be fine with just watching these four. Shame because there's things I liked about 4, I dug the mermaids and a few other things but it just didn't do it for me anywhere else.

 

[Blizzard]

The only plot point that would be confusing by skipping 4 is the understand why the Pearl is in a bottle. But honestly that went no where anyway.

I literally did not remember the reason for this at all, and I watched 4 in a theater. I didn't remember the Pearl was in a bottle at all. Fortunately it didn't really matter.

*edit* On Stranger Tides had mermaids?!

Right, it's implied that he wasn't fulfilling his duties.

Interesting, I wonder what he was doing instead.

 

[Zetta]

Just finish seeing the movie and I enjoyed it, a lot of the jokes landed well. The only issue I had was that Jack felt toooo cartoonish, I miss the first pirate Jack.

 

[ZeoVGM]

My fiancee, who is an obsessive Pirates fan, has liked it more since Thursday night. I still love it. A few flaws and plot holes, mainly around the compass plot, but they didn't bother me too much to kill how entertaining it was.

And surprisingly emotional with the Barbossa and Will stuff. And like I said before, Carina is an awesome character. In a potential Pirates 5, they just need to give Henry a bit more of a personality.

I think my final ranking would have to be:

CotBP = DMC > DMTNT > AWE > OST

I honestly think bringing back Gore Verbinski would fix a majority of Pirates' problems. While 2 & 3 aren't necessarily good, they had the spectacle and soul that's lacking in 4 & 5.

Oh, I think 5 had the spectacle and soul that was lacking in 4. The spectacle wasn't quite up to par with 2 and 3 but it had plenty of big moments.

That being said, I think it would be cool if Verbinski came back to do another one (or another two, shot back to back, depending on how big their plans are for the post-credits teaser) to end the series.

 

[Pagusas]

Interesting, I wonder what he was doing instead.

Katie Perry and the Hobbit Movies.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Interesting, I wonder what he was doing instead.

Dunno. One could say that he just wasn't able to keep up with the duties or maybe he purposefully didn't bring people over for some reason. It could be interesting to see if they answer that in Pirates 6.

Another thing I'm curious to know about: what happens now to souls? If the curse is broken, no one is able to bring them to the other side anymore, right? Is that screwing up the afterlife? Maybe that would be the main plot of Pirates 6 and why Davy Jones is back.

 

[Blizzard]

Katie Perry and the Hobbit Movies.

I will accept this answer, lol.

My fiancee, who is an obsessive Pirates fan, has liked it more since Thursday night. I still love it. A few flaws and plot holes, mainly around the compass plot, but they didn't bother me too much to kill how entertaining it was.

And surprisingly emotional with the Barbossa and Will stuff. And like I said before, Carina is an awesome character. In a potential Pirates 5, they just need to give Henry a bit more of a personality.

I think my final ranking would have to be:

CotBP = DMC > DMTNT > AWE > OST

I agree with the ranking, the emotion (I teared up at least twice near the end), and Carina being a great character.

If only they didn't love making money so much, and hadn't killed Barbossa off again, this could have been a good ending note.

 

[Daft_Cat]

That being said, I think it would be cool if Verbinski came back to do another one (or another two, shot back to back, depending on how big their plans are for the post-credits teaser) to end the series.

After the abysmal box office of Lone Ranger and Cure for Wellness (not to mention the reviews), Verbinski is headed in one of two directions. Either he'll transition into high budget television, or he'll return to the Pirates franchise. I'd be happy with either result. Then again, Verbinski's not a writer... and that seems to be the real issue with the franchise. Give him the right script, and he fires on all cylinders (look no further than Rango) - but what PotC really needs is a screenwriter with a bold take.

 

[>:)]

Maybe I missed something here...

When the boat Henry's on first goes to the Devil's Triangle, it's perfectly fine. Yet in the flashblack, Salazar's ship instantly goes boom the second it enters.

wat

 

[ZeoVGM]

I will accept this answer, lol.


I agree with the ranking, the emotion (I teared up at least twice near the end), and Carina being a great character.

If only they didn't love making money so much, and hadn't killed Barbossa off again, this could have been a good ending note.

I kind of wonder if Geoffrey Rush told them that he was probably done with the series after this one, leading to them killing him off for real.

He's 65 now. A potential Pirates 5 probably wouldn't film for another 2 years. He might just not be up for doing another large Pirates shoot (or two, if that's the plan -- one of the earlier rumors was that this would be the start of a new/final trilogy).

 

[brandonh83]

I thought it was Barbossa's time (for real this time) and at least they brought some emotion and heart to the deck with that character before the sendoff. And his exit was fucking dope.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I thought it was Barbossa's time (for real this time) and at least they brought some emotion and heart to the deck with that character before the sendoff. And his exit was fucking dope.

As soon as it was revealed that Carina was his daughter, my fiancee and I both were like, "Oh, he's so going to sacrifice himself." So it was pretty telegraphed but they did it well. It was a badass exit.

And I didn't remotely see the Carina/Barbossa twist coming at all so that was cool.

I would love for Pirates 6 to start with Carina now feeling the itch to be a pirate now that she knows her legacy. Would be fun seeing her to dive right into it.

 

[Pagusas]

Did anyone else expect BB to be saved by the Flying Dutchmen at the end? Kept thinking it would pop up right away with Will saving BB and showing all cures have been broke.

 

[ZeoVGM]

Did anyone else expect BB to be saved by the Flying Dutchmen at the end? Kept thinking it would pop up right away with Will saving BB and showing all cures have been broke.

I did think of that at one point during the final set piece but I think they wanted this to be it for Barbossa.

 

[vivekTO]

I think Its third best movie of the Series. For positives i can say that the Intro is pretty solid and sets the Movie pretty well. Also the Ending is Great. the focus on story feels good rather than last two movies. But its not overall great as it dragged in between wuiet sometimes, But overall its a Great movie, Also the Salazar is a great villain, Although The effect doesn't look that great. Overall a Good Pirate movie.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

At the beginning when they played the he's a pirate song was completely unearned.

 

[AkumaNiko]

saw it last night, seemed like a packed house. I liked it, better than on stranger tides by miles

 

[Pagusas]

At the beginning when they played the he's a pirate song was completely unearned.

I felt the scoring was an issue for the whole film. Not an original priece in it it sounded like, and everything felt like they took the soundtrack of 2 and 3 and just spliced in pieces for max nastalga.

 

[brandonh83]

I felt the scoring was an issue for the whole film. Not an original priece in it it sounded like, and everything felt like they took the soundtrack of 2 and 3 and just spliced in pieces for max nastalga.

It had a few new themes, but I like the older themes so well that it didn't matter much to me that it was mostly remixed music.

 

[Stormwatch]

I felt the scoring was an issue for the whole film. Not an original priece in it it sounded like, and everything felt like they took the soundtrack of 2 and 3 and just spliced in pieces for max nastalga.

Yeah, I was disappointed that we really didn't get a new Salazar theme or Carina theme. Salazar was basically Blackbeard and Kraken combined.

 

[brandonh83]

Carina had a great theme. Sure it's basically an original theme reworked, but it sounds nice and works because it's implied that maybe she becomes a pirate. "My name is Barbossa."

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Going to see this with my son tomorrow so was going to watch 4 tonight to get me in the mood. I liked the first 3 but everyone in here seems to be saying 4 is the shits. Can someone summarise why it is disliked?

Its an extremely budgeted sequel(that ended up more expensive).
-honestly would say compared to the other 4, On Stranger Tides feels like a straight to video sequel.
-Blackbeard is absolutely forgettable.
-Jack has too much focus.
-No ship battles.
-Secondary cast is wasted.
-No real over the top action scenes.

+The mermaids are the best part of the entire movie .

And thats someone who enjoys all of these including 4.

I felt the scoring was an issue for the whole film. Not an original priece in it it sounded like, and everything felt like they took the soundtrack of 2 and 3 and just spliced in pieces for max nastalga.

I was so disappointed by 4's but after this at least it had stuff like mermaid's theme and the reused stuff all had a Spanish vibe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GA4UW7p1c6g
Only disappointment I had with 5(I won't say it was bad though, just average in a series of greats)

 

[SlasherJPC]

Guillotine scene was freaking fantastic and wild. Along with the bank scene. I really liked the end stuff to with junping between ships, cannons, and the huge statue that came to life.

 

[Cypher]

I went into this with low expectations, but by the end I thought it was very good! When it ended, I turned to my gf and the first thing I said was, "That was much, much better than the last one!".

I didn't like On Stranger Tides because I thought it was just boring and inert. The sets, the set pieces, the lack of ship battles, and the locales they went to just sucked....visually it looked and felt cheap all around and the story was just mediocre..

Dead Men Tell No Tales looked great and you can see onscreen the large budget they committed to this....the set-pieces and the CGI effects by ILM here (esp. the ships battles) were large in scope and had pretty good weight to everything. The one knock I had was the entire sequence between Salazar's Silent Mary and the Black Pearl....everything was just too dark and it was hard to see and appreciate all the antics going on.

Of course Jack here is more of cartoon and the humor gave the requisite chuckles, and the story and characters were more engaging than the forgettable cast from the last entry.

Overall, I'd say DMTNT is right below the Verbinski trilogy, and way above Rob Marshall's lackluster On Stranger Tides.

A definite worth see for Summer fare in theaters!